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I agree with some of your points but objectively, this squad has more talent than 04 or 14. The difference is it is all focused up top whereas in the past it was spread amongst gk, defense, mid. Yes our defense and midfield is lacking and not having Zafeiris or Kourbelis hurt. The main issue is this. When he had a midfield of androutsos or Kourbelis and Zafeiris playing well against Serbia, Germany, Dutch (1st game) what did Ivan do ? HE MADE US SIT BACK AND INVITE PRESSURE. Tzoliakis has one super game every 3 or so duds, that first Germany game he kept us in it. Otherwise we would have lost that game too. Point is, when Zafeiris and Kourbelis are out and ur starting a midfielder from the MLS OF ALL PLACES, THAT IS THE TIME WHEN YOU DECIDE TO TRY BUILDING UP FROM THE BACK TOWARDS THE MIDFIELD? HOW DOES THAT MAKE ANY LICK OF SENSE? We have played much better Dutch teams closer and harder with much worse rosters in the last decade by sitting back and being gritty. This same “weak” defense kept it 1-0 against France in qualifying a few years ago if my memory serves correct. The point is this, his tactics are so bad that the talent of this team gotten us the previous results. His “tactics” maximized our roster back in pot c when Pelkas, Mantalos, Masouras were our “stars” lol. Bottom line is this: team is not dumb they see certain players getting picked who shouldn’t be picked and they have to try and make his bad tactics work. They are unmotivated and for a GREEK, the most passionate people perhaps ever created, team to play without any drive, emotion, or passion is the biggest inditement on any coach regardless of tactics.

Honestly I think it's two fold. I do question whether Ivan is really the guy to take that big step forward. I'm doubting that. Best case scenario is we grab Pot 1 and then turn the team over to someone who can inject some life and new ideas. What's Ivan's true level anyway. Panathinaikos, Al Nasir.. The second is and it's my opinion really is that we are only so good right now. I think our rise up has been pretty impressive and now we are up in the Nations League A with the top of Europe. When I look at the roster I don't see it. Nothing really world class at any position except for maybe one of our youngest players in Karetsas who is still developing. Younger smaller slight players not very strong. Our defence and goaltending has I think overachieved our top CB is Mavropanos who has been stellar on this run but at the end of the day is starting for West Ham in the Championship. We caught Germany napping in a transitional period and pipped Serbia in the 90th minute. We have played well but it's inflated our actual level right now imo. The Dutch game is showing a lot of this proof unfortunately. We are mid tier in Europe right now until we can get better talent in central midfield and defence or we need to change our systems to better absorb and counter attack better sides.

Monastirlis suffered a 'second degree' sprain and will miss at least some game time. Tsiftsis, Balomenos, and presumably Beleris will make up our group of keepers.

Absolutely not. He needs to be gone today. Or at the very worse after the Serbia game.

I honestly have no words after that performance. Absolutely humiliating. I agree with others who believe Jovanovic isn't the right coach for this team, and my opinion isn't based solely on this disastrous result. I've had my doubts for some time. But that game is over now. What interests me more is how this team responds. Do they completely collapse and lose to Serbia, or do they come out with pride, determination, and a point to prove, earn all three points, and advance? Beating Serbia at home won't be easy, but this is where we find out what this team is really made of. If we can't beat Serbia on our own turf, I don't see how you can possibly justify moving forward with Jovanovic as head coach.

Serbia losing two players might be just the boost we need considering their absolutely shocking performance today. Also a plus that Zivkovic will get slightly less wear and tear on his legs, I suppose.

Zivkovic got himself sent off after coming on as a HT sub. He will miss the game against the Ethniki in Volos as a result.

Horrendous performance, we've taken 2 step backwards today. Losing is part of football but it's about how you lose and today was disgraceful from coaches and players alike. Whether we qualify in the top 2 isn't important IMO. We have already secured the most important thing that this Nations League campaign had to offer, that is finishing top 3 and securing our place in pot 1 for the Euro 28 qualifiers. Anything else was/is going to be a bonus. Important to keep that perspective. There is a bigger issue at play, this is the 4th time that the Ethniki under Jovanovic has capitulated and produced an awful result. Twice against Denmark in WC qualifying, and away to Scotland in the same qualifiers. There is enough evidence there to tell us, he can't get this team right to take the next step. All 4 of these games have been high pressure with plenty riding on them. We have failed all 4 tests. The match in Scotland for the NL playoffs in March 25 was the only cutthroat match where Ivan's Ethniki performed and got a result. Only a few months later at the same stadium the team would collapse when leading 0-1 and we kissed our WC hopes goodbye. Now ultimately this Ethniki might not be good enough in midfield and defence to get results against more competitive nations. That remains to be seen. Clearly tactics and structure have a part to play in that. After all the Dutch just about scored the same goal 5 times, walking the ball into the net after finding unmarked players deep in and around our 6 yard box. There comes a tipping point and the coach is the one who needs to fall on his sword. We have reached this point IMO. You can't be confident with Jovanovic heading into a big qualifying match, or even a potential NL quarter final which we may still qualify for. His results in do or die matches just don't stack up.

Can only hope this beat down didn't hurt their confidence too much for Serbia. As disappointing a start as you can have considering we many players available for this window. Humbling really.

I mean, you do raise a good question. Do we want him to be there in the spring when Euro qualifying begins?

Netherlands 7-0 Greece FT

+1

It’s our second worse loss ever. The team has given up on him. The players see him picking his favorites like Ionnidis they are clearly discouraged. Idc if he “presses harder” there is 0 AND I MEAN 0 logic or sense behind starting him over the LEADING GOAL SCORER OF THE CHAMPIONS LEAGUE. We as a country were so desperate for success we missed the fact of the matter, which is this. We only beat Serbia from that same Douvikas giving a stellar finish in added time. Beat a heavily rotated, young, new coach Germany and fell apart against a Dutch team who was missing almost HALF their starters bcuz he wanted to sit back in the second despite any fan could see we needed possession to keep them at bay. Kostoulas not even on the squad when he can play as a 10 or on the wing if need be. Come on guys we got to this point because of the players we have, not from coach. You can thank his tactics for getting out of Pot B sure, but that is where it should have ended for him. It’s not “one loss”. He melts at every major game. Scotland, Georgia, Dutch last qualifying campaign. Come on

Final Dutch substitution: Lang IN Summerville OUT All changes have been made

Netherlands: Maatsen IN Timber OUT

Final Greek substitution: Koutsoupias IN Triantis OUT

Greece: Vagiannidis IN Tzolis OUT

As bad as this is.....and it's BAD, this doesn't undo the whole campaign

He needs to be fired today…

Lose to Serbia and he will be fired for sure

Greece: Masouras IN Karetsas OUT

Our biggest defeat in history is 11:1. There is enough time to set history today.

Greece: Douvikas IN Ioannidis OUT

Greece substitution: Bakasetas IN Pavlidis OUT

Complete joke Karetsas is literally asking to get taken out