players that might come this summer.

[DUDE]

I dont think Baba has been a dissapoinment in my opinion... Dani i agree... waste of money... wht he gets like 950,000 a year... and has played like 10 times in the season... waste... <_<

When Baba is used correctly he is very effective! And Dani hasn't really been given a chance!

[TheCity1924]

A Gavro I know set it straight for me as to the signings OFSP makes. He said that resigning players like Pantos and Kafe, and then buying players like Dani and Baba is more than enough for Greek standards. Aside from the bought protathlimata these types of players are enough to win a championship. In order to get somewhere in the CL you need to make big signings, with real talent. Players that are hungry to win. The players in Greece are good enough for the 4 to 8 points they get every year in the CL nothing else. Maybe on a fluke they will go to the next round but thats it.

[DUDE]

A Gavro I know set it straight for me as to the signings OFSP makes.  He said that resigning players like Pantos and Kafe, and then buying players like Dani and Baba is more than enough for Greek standards.  Aside from the bought protathlimata these types of players are enough to win a championship.  In order to get somewhere in the CL you need to make big signings, with real talent.  Players that are hungry to win.  The players in Greece are good enough for the 4 to 8 points they get every year in the CL nothing else.  Maybe on a fluke they will go to the next round but thats it.

I agree ORIGINALAEKARA, the foundation to make an impact in the CL is there for the top teams in Greece.

Olympiakos: Toure, Rivaldo, and Djole could make it into top sides. & players like Kafes, Stoltidi, and Konstantinou (when fully fit) could comfortably ply their trade in the top leagues, not at their top sides but they're still good players.

PAO: This team is halia but taking last season into account, players like Basinas have proved they are top class. Gonzalez is quality and Tzolis and Darlas are great youngsters, easily comparable to the youngsters of other nations.

AEK: Katsourani & Dellas are great players when fit. Veglinsky is also a very good striker despite the fact AEK dont use him and prefer Soares <_< Sorrentino is also considered by the Italians to be a bright prospect.

The point is, if you compare the top teams in Greece to the top teams in Holland, for example, they are comparable man-for-man. Do you think man-4-man Ajax are much better than Olympiakos? Or AZ better than PAO? Feyenord better than AEK? Maybe, maybe not. The diff is that they don't have the MAJOR weaknesses that Greek sides have! Because when they have weaknesses they try to bring in players to cover the prob. Greek sides don't. Olympiakos have had defensive probs for years, and what have they done about it? In short the difference is ambition! Olympiakos will only bring in players who are cheap (or free) because of that greedy m**** Socrati. Other teams are similar. The foundation is there, its ambition thats lacking.

[aek21]

The problem is money, at least it is for Paok and AEK and many sides in the greece first division. Olympaikos has a really good team and so far they have been nothing more than unlucky in europe, I think they looked more promising this year than last year and had a tough break against rosenberg, should have won both games. They have 2 players going to the world cup, both key players to their teams. I really think they have the best chance of doing well in europe, I'd say atleast they can win the uefa cup with this team or a quaterfinal appearance in the champions league, it doesn't seem to farfetched considering the teams are left in the uefa cup this year and the teams that made the quaters in the cl, olympaikos is just as good or even better than benfica and villareal or shalke and middlesborough.

[DUDE]

I agree, BUT this has been true for years with the top Greek sides. Last season PAO threw their chance to qualify from the group by giving away the lead against Rosenberg in Norway, when they were in complete control, otherwise PAO were threw and Arsenal were out. Olympiakos hit the woodwork twice at home against Liv, Okkas had a goal disallowed against Monaco in the final min which should have stood, If any had gone in Oly would have qualified. This type of luck in Europe has become synonamous with Greek teams! How many times does this s%$#! have to happen before we stop saying we're unlucky?

[Crazy]

[LUZ13]

Well Well

I can "understand" the frustration that Bar has against black players, maybe because the Iraklis black player was very good against his team (And ours, to tell the truth)

In extratime forum of Greek football they elected him best foreigner in Greece this year, Ribo being in second place

Now this antisemite remarks beside all other pearls to be read here

About Maccabi, They are the current European Champions, and get a lot of support from the Israeli Government and That is the reason I can not feel any sympathy for them. They are the Real Madrid of Israel

Oly gave a fair fight to them, IMHO

On the other hand , you PAO supporters better not begin even talking about basket because your fate with TAO could be said in 4 words "Better TAO than PAO"

BAR can be abbreviation for for Being Antisemit Racist

Do we need this here??

And to the one who spoke about Lebanon

When did you visited the region lately?

Lebanon is in a very bad situation. One part is governed by the Syrians and the other by the Hezbollah militias, or some other Phalanges

It used to be a Switzerland of the Middle East, but not now, and you can not even blame the Israelis for that..They destroyed themselves with civil wars , The Syrians had their fingers in the mass as did Iran and militant organizations

Now I really do not want to talk politics, but some things really did to be cleared

Israel has many shortcomings, but it is the only democratic regime in the Middle East and the Arab states do not want to play with them so they play in European zone

About 25 years ago or so they played in Asia and were sometimes champions ...It was before ZIco took Japan and Hidding Korea, obviously

In basket, it is a questions of Americans and Yugoslavs as in every place

So let us speak about the players that are to come, and about their qualities as players and human beings, not about their colour (They will all be RED)

[drakos13]

On the other hand , you PAO supporters better not begin even talking about basket because your fate with TAO could be said in 4 words "Better TAO than PAO"

its TAU smartass not TAO, and OSFP could not dream of having what we have in basket so enough. We had bad luck just like every greek team performing in europe in all sports this season. Aris, Iraklis volley, PAO and PAO volley the same.

and for calling bar7 racist he hasnt said anything against jews or blacks

[LUZ13]

I apologize to you for the spelling mistake about TAU

Yes. you are better in basket usually, but Oly is catching up nicely lately

anyhow it is not the issue here and i do not know how come that any discussion, no matter what is turning into a dispute between reds and greens

Is there any management in this forum who can direct the threads to stay in course?

In a forum which I manage we try to avoid such things

Now about BAR 7 being or not being racist? I am old enough to recognize one

He could say that Piraeus is full of foreigners which will be xenophobia but he said blacks, it did not sound like a loving remark, so better drop it. as i said, they will all be red. And there is many Greeks in the team, it is not like Arsenal, that hardly has any Brit (Without being a racist I think it is for the best)

Anyhow, i don't know if I have to laugh or cry, nobody has called me a smartass for at least 25 years ;)

[evalagoal]

Marko Ne is an official player of Olympiacos

[Montreal_Thrillos]

I apologize to you for the spelling mistake about TAU

Yes. you are better in basket usually, but Oly is catching up nicely lately

anyhow it is not the issue here and i do not know how come that any discussion, no matter what is turning into a dispute between reds and greens

Is there any management in this forum who can direct the threads to stay in course?

In a forum which I manage we try to avoid such things

Now about BAR 7 being or not being racist? I am old enough to recognize one

He could say that Piraeus is full of foreigners which will be xenophobia but he said blacks, it did not sound like a loving remark, so better drop it. as i said, they will all be red. And there is many Greeks in the team, it is not like Arsenal, that hardly has any Brit (Without being a racist I think it is for the best)

Anyhow, i don't know if I have to laugh or cry, nobody has called me a smartass for at least 25 years ;)

dont forget that PAO also has more foreigners then our teamso what is trying to be proven by him that OSFP has black players so what?

so does PAO and we have more greeks on top of that

[bar7]

@ luz13 I did say that Pireas is turning black with all the new transfers that osfpp is making.. I didnt know this made me a racist?? :LOL: Take a walk there & you'll see what i'm talking about... I still belive Greece is a predominatly white country. It's not multicultured like the USA or Canada therefore Visible minorities stand out alot more...There's nothing wrong with that & nothing wrong pointing it out either...

Most of these minorities will be playing in Karaiskase next year...Maybe your offended that they're playing for your team...

[LUZ13]

I am not offended of course, why should I?

African players or black citizens of African origin , especially in France, are doing reat

Some of the best Brazilian players are black' Pele for example

I do not care about the colour of the players, but about their quality

Now is the trend of African players because they are good technically and relatively cheap

In basketball the situation is much worse in that aspect' too many foreigners are bad for the national teams

Look at Spain

Every team that can afford it and want Europe success has to buy foreign players

Many Africans have comunity passport, especially French

On the other hand good Greek players go to play in another leagues and grow

like Steios in Bolton etc

As I say, i don't care about the colour of the player, If he will be good and will be RED , it's OK with me

[NYC_Olympiakos]

in 2004-2005 season we had an unlucky break cause we played hard in all the games

i can only question the first half of the Monaco game in France and the 2nd half game in Liverpool

but the club showed great effort

unfortunately it wasn't enough and we weren't able to fuel it for the following c.l. campaign

again 2 things will depend where we stand : The players we sign this summer and the luck of the balls dropping our way when it comes to the group stage

but we need to take control of building and strong and solid team

players like dani, mavrogenidis, and etc have to go

there not of class anymore

[Crazy]

[LUZ13]

I am asking the same question again

What about defence?

The defence was the reason we lost these games in the last minutes, or am I wrong??

[DUDE]

I am not offended of course, why should I?

African players  or black citizens of African origin , especially in France, are doing reat

Some of the best Brazilian players are black' Pele for example

I do not care about the colour of the players, but about their quality

Its not a question of being racist or of quality. Its about the team representing its fans and nation. All clubs should have a minimum of 5 domestic players in the team! Why? Because how can Arsenal say they represent England in the CL when they don't have one English player? I'd hate to see Greek teams go that way but thats how things are turning out! Does that make me racist too?

[alexch]

I am asking the same question again

What about defence?

The defence was the reason we lost these games in the last minutes, or am I wrong??

yeh it seems kinda puzzling, cs right now theyre only looking at simounic so wht happens if he doesnt go thru??? its ok we have Karataidis somewhere in the team he can join for a few months again... :P

[LUZ13]

Of course not, Ethnikistis

But the situation in OLY is far for that, there are a lot of Greek players, and I count also Djole who is more Greek than Serb

I just did not like the "colour" talk

Any how the internationalization is a fact. only Athletic Bilbao it's pure - Basque, and they are in danger of relegation this year

The same issue was discussed in Barcelona many time

Some fans and members wished the team that represent Catalunya would have been more Catalan' others said "No. we represent Catalunya and we want the best players of the world defend the Catalan colours"

So there are two ways to look at it

I think that like a good cocktail, there are to be national and international players in the team, and this is the way Oly is taking

[DUDE]

Of course not, Ethnikistis

But the situation in OLY is far for that, there are a lot of Greek players, and I count also Djole who is more Greek than Serb

I just did not like the "colour" talk

Any how the internationalization is a fact. only Athletic Bilbao it's pure - Basque, and they are in danger of relegation this year

The same issue was discussed in Barcelona many time

Some fans and members wished the team that represent Catalunya would have been more Catalan' others said "No. we represent Catalunya and we want the best players of the world defend the Catalan colours"

So there are two ways to look at it

I think that like a good cocktail, there are to be national and international players in the team, and this is the way Oly is taking

I understand what you're saying Luz but Bilbao is an extreme situation. Look at Benfica they have a strong Portuguese foundation and they made it to the last 8! UEFA should pass a law which insists on a team having at least 5 nationals in the team. That would make football more representatve, and also would break the monopoly of football! Look at how footballs become, unless you spend many millions each season you won't win your domestic league (assuming its a big league of course). The current method is killing the essence of football.

[LUZ13]

For your information, Benfica has 7 Brazilian in the opening 11. maybe some of them have been nationalized

If there will be any law which limits the numbr of strangers, better said non communitarian, there will be only more nationalizations

Because of the EU and the bossman law it will be difficult to discriminate non nationals but European

To make a long discussion short, Let us hope that Oly ill not be Arsenal , of course the money destroyed some of the football magic, but there is nothing that we can do against it

[aekrossoponti]

But the situation in OLY is far for that, there are a lot of Greek players, and I count also Djole who is more Greek than Serb

Any how the internationalization is a fact. only Athletic Bilbao  it's pure - Basque, and they are  in danger of relegation  this year

I think that like  a good cocktail, there are to be national and international players in the team,  and this is the  way Oly is taking

i personally dont like this development and i dont see were you see many greek players at olympikaos actually playing. the only greeks i would see in the endekada next year would be konstantinou, stoltidis maybe, and perhaps antzas if he comes. kafes??? probably sollied will take butina over nikopolidis. pappas won t play if they borja now. neither will okkas.

as for bilbao...this year may not be good but in the past they have done good. italian teams milan have a good deal of playing italians.. they are successful. pao will not time soon have team better than the one with basinas-karagounis-seitaridis, etc. no matter foreigners they get.

italy i think has alaw of only 5 players. i dont see mass naturalizations...

as you say its the mixture. i just hope you are right about the greeks...

[DUDE]

For your information, Benfica has 7 Brazilian in the opening 11. maybe some of them have been nationalized

If there will be any law which limits the numbr of strangers, better said non communitarian, there will be only more nationalizations

Because of the EU and the bossman law it will be difficult to discriminate non nationals but European

To make a long discussion short, Let us hope that Oly ill not be Arsenal , of course the money destroyed some of the football magic, but there is nothing that we can do against it

Naturalisations dont make someone Greek. Look France! They have 9 Africans!

Even international football is turning F***ed! Thats whats great about our national team, at least all our players are genuinely Greek! And Aekrossoponti is right about Bilbao, they were a great side. Look at Steaua, their whole team is Romanian at they are going to win the UEFA Cup!

[Olympiakara10]

Did Borha sign?

[alexch]

no not yet... and dnt trust anything the media prints untill u hear it directly thru olympiakos anakoinosi.. I dont know how many times Protathlitis and Fws and many other papaers had protoselida saying Ibrahim Toure is signing soon, Aurio, Opou na'nai and then he just left... Shows how ridiculous the greek sport media is...