Panos13 Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 I was angry at the 3-1 result but as a PAO fan I was EMBARRASED when I read the official statement of PAE PAO about refereeing decisions. ###### this doikisi and ###### the Vardinnogianides. Aren't they the ones who appointed Skazni? Aren't they the ones who chose the players we have? Aren't they the ones who sold our best playesr? They blam everybody else and fire the coach and this and that and other m*****es pou kanoune in the name of PAO. I am ashamesd of these parasites. Why don't they look at their own decisions in the last few months? It's always the fault of diatisia. It's the referee's fault that we can't create oute mia klassiki efkairia. I am embarrassed of these malakes. na pa na pethanoune oli tous oli oi oikogenia Vardinnogianis. kai sta'a*****a mou tha eina.... :angry: :angry: :angry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adonis Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 Pappou you can speak very wisely at times however there are some things I dont agree with you on. Yes when you have a problem - it takes two to tango so as to speak. The players are also to blame - key players ie Gonzo Basinas Vyntra off the top of my head, also Pap are completely out of form. But the coach is also there to boost morale and keep a winning formula and to maintain form. The ideas he brings to the club is shown by 11 players on the field and at the moment the guy is incompetent with what we have seen. We have a good squad and with individual performances we can win games and save some blushes for Skanzy but he cant live like this forever. The cracks are showing. And if we are to become a great team, good enough to win the title, bc lets face it its an uphill battle now, we need to be able to play better and not blame refs etc. Fair enough decisions go against our way, and it may be too many so that we become suspicious but - for eg, he did give a corner that wasnt ours - it should have been dealt with by the defence. The offside - how do you know if Mihalis would have scored or not. We just cant blame the refs. We need to point the finger at ourselves first. We have lost many key and crucial games and very stupidly as well. Playing with one striker is not right. Playing the LAMOIO is just plain murder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elastonpappou 13 Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 First of all I am not letting Skazni out of the tornado that's coming.... Of course lifting the psychology of the players is the coaches job... And you know what elese makes me mad? That he hasn't got the balls to throw out the Vendetta Basinas!!! This shows a lot... His downpoint I think to the majority of the PAO fans was in Karaiskaki when he came out to play with 1 forward and 5 defenders... I think this was the turning point for most of the PAO fans... Pano why are you so crazy with Management re? People where shouting against Schum, Tzigger got rid of him, they were shouting against Zaec, we also got rid of him, we were shouting for transfers we got like 15 players or something since the beginning of the season... What else can these people do? They are not the ones who play football remember that... ;) And as most of you here think, we don't actually have 'aballous' players (except for very few)... Now they got thsi idiotic coach because it was in the middle of the season... Who else could they bring?.. Or who can they bring now? Its going to be either one of Rocha, or some other former-pao player - coach..... The management's only problem is that they keep listening to their idiotic advisors... Nobody can argue that Tzigger doesn't care about the team... Lets face it they have made more transfers that the entire A division teams made in total!!!! They have brough young talented Greek and non Greek players who can help the team... Now if you expect them to make these players perform then I am sorry you expect too much from these people.... ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adonis Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 I dont doubt that Vardigianis cares for the team. But I would like him to take more charge and assert his authority as much as he can now when the team, the club, needs it The team lacks direction at the moment. We lack a competent coach. Fine, hiring Skanzy wasnt the greatest idea, it was a cheap and quick solution but back fired. I actually am beginning to believe that Vardinogiannis wont get rid of Skanzy now bc it will just show if he gets rid of the guy who replaced Shoum only a few weeks into the same season, that getting rid of Shoum was a mistake. And that he will get rid of him at the end of the season and use him not winning the title as an excuse. I dont know. First of all I am not letting Skazni out of the tornado that's coming.... Of course lifting the psychology of the players is the coaches job... And you know what elese makes me mad? That he hasn't got the balls to throw out the Vendetta Basinas!!! This shows a lot... His downpoint I think to the majority of the PAO fans was in Karaiskaki when he came out to play with 1 forward and 5 defenders... I think this was the turning point for most of the PAO fans... Im not saying your throwing Skanzy out of the tornado. And you are right that Skanzy begun his downfall in Karaiskaki but I think he is a defensive midned person, ie he is scared to play the team to attacking abilities. He still thinks he is at OFI and this is the problem. PAO is not OFI! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elastonpappou 13 Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 Markarian was defensive minded as well... Perhaps the most defensive minded of all... But there is a difference being defensive rather than being KOTA!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightsurfer Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 Sorry guys... your board goes and ....... ....hires Skazni, a coach of former OFI .... with no remarkable success .... sells all the good players for profits .....goes for enforcement to the Cyprus League and comes with Xaralambides (an unknow in European Football).... and Wouters...., who wanted to make some money in the Cyprus League at the Set of his Career.... And now you are disappointed because you have no success ? What did then you expect from the above moves ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakos13 Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 So you are sayni that if a team doesn't play well one way or the other MUST loose, and the team who plays better MUST win? Well sorry this is not how the sport works... We all enjoyed watch Milan in the early 90s when the opposite teams played well missed chances and this great team made a single counter attack scoring an only goal and taking the result they wanted.... A football match is decided on minor details... When all these details are calld AGAINST the one team then I am sorry I don't find pleasure in this... Aris yesturday deserved at least a dreaw, but their aballoi Cameroon strikers missed 3 clear chances!!! Tough luck!!! That is how football is..... i didnt say that, i said that if we were outplayed to begin with we have worries bigger than the referees. By what it sounds we deserved a loss. We have played other games deserving crap results and come out with wins, with various ref decisions in and out of favor. The consistent factor for our team is our crap performance in this- not the referees throwing our game away. It may have happened yesterday but its still not my first concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elastonpappou 13 Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 Yes but if we had won yesturday I doubt that we would be having this conversation here today... Crappy performances have being going since the time Skazni arrived.... But now the loss came to make things even worse.... At the end of the day results is what counts most, not the performances!!! Thrynos has poor performances in thepast few months but they get the results and nobody complains... ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panos13 Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 Pappou: I am angry and embarrassed. Embarassed that VEREYTIME we lose the official club statement blames the referee. pao.gr actually printed scenes from the game that they think the referee was wrong. Are they going to do the same when the referees make decisions in favour of us? Enough is enough with all this bullshit. I am angry because in a season when our most serious rivals for the titlo are AEK who have their xalia and gavros who are a kafenio of 40-year olds, we are getting results that are worse than both of them. Also, you yourself said a few posts ago that everyone is to blame, the coach and the players. But you stopped short of saying the name Vardinnogianis!!! So I just thought I remind everyone that he too is in this mess and must take his share of the blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evergreen Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 Also, you yourself said a few posts ago that everyone is to blame, the coach and the players. But you stopped short of saying the name Vardinnogianis!!! So I just thought I remind everyone that he too is in this mess and must take his share of the blame. Exactly! The V have the majority of the blame for the situation. It's not only that the team is struggling but other things too like the banning of our fans to attend away games, the fact that from now on to attend a PAO game you must bring your birth certificate and passport photo things that are rediculous as if all PAO fans are potential crims and they want to keep tabs on all of us. To add to that the 100's of PAO fans that no longer attend games because they refuse to dance to V. 's song. The fact that it seems all but sure that the team will build a new stadium at Ellinikon which lies outside the boundaries of the Athens municipality and the heart of the clubs fan base. I have promised myself that I will never , ever attend another football game , not purchase a single product from the Trifili shop. Not until the Vardinogiannis family leaves the club. I will no longer have a participation of the criminal destruction to what is happening to our once great football club. The only people I exert from responsibitity from our demise are Yitzak Shum and Fragiskos Sourpis who resigned immediately when he found out what his role was to be (That of Zajec's a little later). I can no longer stand watching players of Seitaridis', Kirgiakos', Karagounis' class leave for these nobodies (it's not their fault) and have people incapable such as Scasny lead the blind to slaughter. It's become comic that each time PAO plays..I get the feeling I'm watching a funeral. That of Panathinaikos F.C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panos13 Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 Evergreen: Very correct. I realised that PAO could do alot better than what V family are doing. Ok they could also do alot worse financially (just look at AEK) but why do we have to compromise on this? I too hope most sensible PAO fans should stop going to football until some serious changes are made by V in the way the club is run. We should just go to Basket and to erastexni where we are respected, where our support is appreciated and where our money and custon is wanted. Let the V manage with the amall handful of PALEFIP 'marionetes' and see how far it gets them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick13 Posted January 31, 2005 Author Share Posted January 31, 2005 O skazni leei oti DEN PARETEITE kai oti synexizei :box: :box: :box: :box: :box: O basinas ton stirizei..... paidia ok peksame xalia alla min ksexname oti ta goal irthan apo ta lahoi tou diaititi, tha do stin athliti kiriaki an ontos ypirxe penalty ston Pap.... basinas dont care he is leaving in the summer!and he got his championship last year he dont care this season! how many goals has basinas scored this year? he shoots all the freekicks and he did not score on 1 of them ! thats more than 20 matches :o :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick13 Posted January 31, 2005 Author Share Posted January 31, 2005 livathinos: outLivathinos :o ?All he does is get players with the "psixoula" that Vardinokaulis gives him! This loss is not the issue here. It will bring up ALL the problems that PAO has. If things change it might be a blessing in disguise. The issue is that PAO has NOT played well since the CL. No consistency, just a descent performance every other moon against crappy teams... We sell our best players, we change one bad coach for another... The team is undergoing constant change and uncertainty. Many players want out, others complain that they do not play, while new ones come in who have not adjusted yet. The defense was missing our best two players (Munch, Kyrgiakos) which shows in the score. I believe 3 goals is the most PAO has conceded since Man. U... Blaming the ref will make you feel better for this loss, but NOT for the performances. Sevilla will be the true test, for players, coaches, management. What happens there should determine the future of this team. Losses in Greece, do not matter as much as in Europe. The AEK cup game is this week, they need to recover and get this one behind! Athinaie this is the only thing that I will have to disagree with: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick13 Posted January 31, 2005 Author Share Posted January 31, 2005 I should probably do the classy thing here. but this is pao Im talking about here: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: YOUR A DISGRACE!! Did you enjoy na'ste PROTOS for a while?? you should have re evergreen what have u edited?ban him or throw him out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vasili0s Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 ban him or throw him out your Evergreen cant save you all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athinaios Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 If we had someone with a good knowledge of organizing a team, we could have put a decent team together.... especially given the bad condition of the greek league! We don't play football. Can't put 3-4 passes together and have a strategy, a system! Pappou: the result counts more than the performance, I agree. But, what when we can't produce either?!!! A good team gets what it wants, but it shows that it can play a decent game (most often). Trifilli: We've got more money than our competition.... and we're fighting to stay above Xanthi.... (in points, because they punished us last Sun). Vardi has his share of the blame. He's not stopping the bleeding right now, by supporting Scaz... We managed to be lucky last year to win one, but we're going back to the "petrina chronia".... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evergreen Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 Evergreen: Very correct. I realised that PAO could do alot better than what V family are doing. Ok they could also do alot worse financially (just look at AEK) but why do we have to compromise on this? I too hope most sensible PAO fans should stop going to football until some serious changes are made by V in the way the club is run. We should just go to Basket and to erastexni where we are respected, where our support is appreciated and where our money and custon is wanted. Let the V manage with the amall handful of PALEFIP 'marionetes' and see how far it gets them. Exactly Pano!I will go to the bball where I know the Presidents there love the club as much as I do and I know that I am welcome at the games and respected by the management for just simply attending and cheering on my club. The basketball club often thanks the attending fans for their appearance, something that has never ever happend with V. The same applies for the Amateur club where you will get a real feeeling of what "Gate 13" is all about in it's true romantic sence, just like the ones the old generation tells us about. At the end of the game there the players will applaud and thank the fans for their support. Something you only get on a regular basis from Chalkias, Kygiakos and Jan Michaelsen. The rest of them couldn't be assed to approach us although we have made sacrifices financially, in stress, discomfort to travel from all over Europe to try "give them wings". We'd just get the satisfaction for the good result and the experience, whilst they'll get paid for it. Ofcourse, this does not apply every time. they do sometimes thank the fans, usually only when the result is good, other times, although it is bad we still applaud them because we witnessed commitment and know they gave their all. The least I expect from them is what English players do at the end of all their games where they always thank the fans for their support. They can't even say thanks..why should I go through all the aforementioned for thankless and selfish individuals. Gate 13 is Dead. It only exists marked on the concrete in that section of the the legendary Stadium of Apostolos Nikolaidis, based on Leoforos Alexandras. It's most important aspect that of Spirit has died over time. It was murdered by V. and a handful of "sell-out" captains who only look at how much money is being stuffed in their pockets. Don't ask me to post names, those who know, know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trifilli Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 I can no longer stand watching players of Seitaridis', Kirgiakos', Karagounis' class leave for these nobodies (it's not their fault) and have people incapable such as Scasny lead the blind to slaughter.My sentiments exactly.We agree on everything but this: The only people I exert from responsibitity from our demise are Yitzak Shum ... Scum was a bad coach as well, and one that humiliated PAO in Europe. PAO did not play much better last year, but got last minute results, mostly thanks to Papa and Manoli which both were in good form as opposed to this year Skasni started well, but has lost it, in trying new systems with new players. He can not decide on a line up that works. He is not getting any help either. PAO has been trading in and out like crazy. Our core players are out of form. Gonzo, Papa, Bassinas, etc. have been very inconsistent. Even at goalie we make constant changes. Munch and Kyrgiakos who were consistent performers did not play. Vyntra has been struggling and even at his best is NO Giourkas. Manolis has been out of shape, Mihalis on and off. Morris has never been convincing. Wooter looked promising, but?...Is Bidis an answer? Scasny is incapable of connecting the lines. PAO used to be a team that passed constantly. These days the guys can not even find each other on the field. I understand it must be demoralizing to know that PAO will lose it's best players Constant changes, uncertainty and bad psychology are some of the factors I do not believe Scasny is a PAO caliber coach, but changing him now just before a crucial cup game and the Sevilla matches would be premature and detrimental to the team. As I said before the real picture will show in Europe. If PAO saves face and plays well, it will show the real capabilities, of our players and coach. Remember that just six weeks ago this team beat PSV 4-1 and everyone was on the up! PATIENCE please. PAO is known to lag, a good game vs AEK could bring new "wind to our sails" As far as the vardinokaulis mafia, everyone knows how I feel. :tdown: The real long term solution would be to hurt them where they care... $$$ So that they will again start caring... or selling As much as I have been down on them , I do think they could come around. They will only do that if they HAVE to. PAO fans have the power to make them reconsider their recent business attitude ;) Never with violence or threats. :nono: ONLY with conscious and organized effort. :) Otherwise sell to someone that loves this team...If there is one that wants to buy! PEACE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athinaios Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 Excellent points Trifilli.... But, we should change Scaz NOW..things can't get any worse! Do you honestly think that he's going to pick and inspire a team against Seville? I have no doubt that he'll go for a 0-0 tie against AEK this Thu.... Things are really bad... perhaps a shake-up of the coaching staff will make things a bit better.... this season is lost. Bring in Vaggelis Vlachos for the rest of the season since the owners don't want to go out and spend to get a high-caliber coach... PS> I also like your take on the 4 more years of Bullshit in the US! Care to check my blog? www.liberalcitizen.blogspot.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clover22 Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 Yes, I have to say as well that trifilli made some good points. The thing that seems a bit strange to me is the fact that we played so well against Arsenal but have problems against teams like Xanthi! Are the players doing this purposely? What gives? I'm in favor for getting rid of him but they have to do it now. If they don't, I doubt if they'll get some coach in March or April! We need someone like Otto, frankly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYC_Olympiakos Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 Pao blaming the refs is that anything new here i am suprised Vardiogannis said anything i mean in Pao's case if in doubt blame the refs or better yet Kokkalis this is same tune we have been listening to for years to tell u the truth i love it b/c that usually means Olympiakos is at the throne and the funny part is Olympiakos as played almost as bad as Pao but look at where their at To Prothalima so Limani stn agapimenimas Piraeus kai Olo to Thrylos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Protathlitis Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 re evergreen what have u edited? ban him or throw him out ooooohhhh have a cry mateDo I get all upset when you come into our forum and say the trash you say? take it like a man evergreen, I dont mind if you tell this guy what I said; I didnt see what was so terrible about it anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choc13 Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 Xalarwse ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elastonpappou 13 Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 Evergreen how many times have you benn to Leoforo at the past couple of years man? Have you seen the kind of people attending the matches? I can't understand how you grown up and serious people critisise Tzigger for banning our away fans!!! As far as I am concerned he should also ban the HOME fans as well!!!! Have you see the kind of people attendingour matches? We have become kafroi like the geys and you people critisise Tzigger for not wanting an army? On the one hand you say "violence should stop" but when somebody decides to do something about it you critisise him!!!! Have you seen the cup game against AEK in OAKA? We were winning 0-1 and our Kafroi started to throw flares to the AEKtzides!!!! These kind of people attend our away matches!!! Now you have a problem with ticket club and the ID's. What exactly is the problem with that? Why do you refuse to give your ID to ticket club in order to buy tickets? Why do you refuse PAO KNOWING the people that enter its premises? I really can't understand you guys... On the one hand you want transfers (great players), best coaches, new stadium etc etc but then you refuse to pay for a ticket!!! Management brings 15 NEW players in the squad you don't like it, they bring Schum you disagree, the fire Schum you STILL don't like it!!! To be honest I won't go to the cup game against AEK. This will be my first miss of a PAO home game... And you know why? Because I refuse too see and hear all these idiots who will go there to boo and create problems!!!! If you don't like it, don't go at all, and if you propose to people to avoid going, then don't expect anyone to put any money to the team!!!! Simple as that!!! Are the AEKtzides malakes who have been attenting the matches of their team with 50 times lower budget and 10 times lower expectetions than us? For you they might be malakes but for me are real supporters of the team... They are not carried away by papers and all the other crap that you speak about... What PAO has done with the tickets and the fans are for the welfare of the club! If that means that there going to be 50 people attending each match then I will be happy to be the 51st!!! Better good and healthy 50 rather than 15,000 scum who haven't got a clue about PAO and all they do is go there to protest and create problems (don't get me wrong, I am not talking only of the organised supporters but also for the scum sitting at gate 10!!!) Thats all!!!! Go and enjoy the LAIKA DIKASTIRIA on thursday and become the same with the geys of 15 years ago!!!! I refuse to be one of them!!!! :tdown: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evergreen Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 Pappou you touched on many things. I'll take them 1 by 1. I know what fans go to PAO's games. All sorts, just like for any big club. The PAE knows who the trouble makers are they don't have to include me in there. They have camera's in the stadium, they have police, security. I don't appreciate being treated as a criminal when I am not one. I've been to a few games here between English clubs. No one ever asked me for an ID. Why should I give you my name? If someone in the street asked for your name would you give it? Or would you tell them to F-O? Why do I get banned from attending away games? What did I or other thousands of PAO fans who have never picked up a single stone get barred from attending away games. We are the only club that has banned our fans from travelling. You mentin the idiot that shot the flairs. You can arrest that individual, why should the other 2000 PAO fans get the blame for what one idiot did? If the club can't catch one individual then, that club is good for nothing. We are all being treated as prospective hooligans and not only that. the PAE wants to ban anyone from attending PAO's games that would dare to boo Vardinogiannis. I'm sorry but I will not go somewhere were I don't have the right to express my views. I am against the "laika dikastiria" against the players and coach, but just to let you know...the ones that go to the laika dikastiria are the ones that are barred from attending games. You thinki those fans don't love PAO? You are wrong! On the one hand you want transfers (great players), best coaches, new stadium etc etc but then you refuse to pay for a ticket!!! hahahaha...where are those things because I can't see any of them. Once he gets them all in we'll speak again about it. New stadium...man mas 'toimazei to Elliniko, you know that? That will be our end!!! Management brings 15 NEW players in the squad you don't like it, they bring Schum you disagree, the fire Schum you STILL don't like it!!! Yes. True. They bring someone which is not big enough for the club and our dreams, but then they fire him (although he is a success) firstly for no reason and secondly for someone that is more or less the same who brings terrible results. If they had fired Shum to bring Hitzfeld, I would have said good on them because I know what he has acheived. Scasny has achieved nothing. Are the AEKtzides malakes who have been attenting the matches of their team with 50 times lower budget and 10 times lower expectetions than us? For you they might be malakes but for me are real supporters of the team... They are not carried away by papers and all the other crap that you speak about... The AEKtzhdes have Demis. Demis who is a fan of the club. Tzigger and V are not. Tzigger and V. have been with us for 25 years now...they have won just 7 league titles. They built us no stadium, nothing. They made money in Europe and never spent as much as they should have. We all saw AEK's attendances in the previous seasons...."real fans" and my ass, they are the same as anybody else. They are happy they still exist. What PAO has done with the tickets and the fans are for the welfare of the club! Not for the club they haven't, they have for the Vardinogiannis family. No club treats its fans the same way PAO does. No club at all. All clubs respect their fans and count on them to help the team both spiritually and financially. Our club wants neither thing from us apart from paying your ticket and shutting the F-U! No critisism, no nothing. We the PAE from my behalf can go F-I-S. I won't pay them a penny and nor will I shut up about the crimes they are commiting to the football club from every viewpoint. We are becoming smaller. When the 10 year old Panathinaiko Pitsiriki from Xan8h is not allowed by his club to go watch PAO who has come to him city, then why should he support PAO and not Oly where he can go with his gauro mates? PAO belongs to Greece not just Athens, it's just based in Athens. Look at Giannakopoulos they do everything they can for the basketball team and always thank the fans for their presence. They don't ask for their ID's and they are always willing to chat with the simple fans. Something you will never see from V. No they are up on their high horse and we are nothing but inferior to them. I wish cancer to fall upon the whole B. family. Finally, it's PAO 1908 and not 1979. They found PAO, not the other way round. If Mantzavelakis ever know what they were going to do, then they would have given the club to the Gianakopoulos bros. It's just a shame the B. had a bigger profile than them. They don't love the club nor the fans. They just look at us as business and every here and there they'll throw us a bone (Borelli, Gonzalez etc) so we will stop barking. PAO they way V. runs it does not express me any longer. I have been patient enough and given them many opportunities to get it right. All they have done is make it worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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