Olympiacos-Sydney Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 HEY GUYS, We have given it to Bajevic all the time, But for Greece he has proven his worth, I think he knows whats going on, only time will tell. Remember we all become critics at the worst time. I think he is slowly trying to flush out the old players and bring in the new. We have future stars: Maric, DA col, Castillo, Mendrinos, Vallas, No one has the answers, but what i guess we all want and what is the best for Olympiacos is Change. We want the same team Bajevic built back 9 years ago. Iam sure we can do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakos13 Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 man its ur players that suck not Bajevic.......okkas and giovanni are so bad its unbelievable.....Bajevic has already accomplished a lot in winning 3 cl games, and finally OSFP not getting raped and embarassed in europe for a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omonoia9 Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 This CL campaign is an omen of things to come, minus the finish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Protathlitis Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 Yep like I've always said; Bajevic is a great coach and exactly who we need. Its true that some of our players are to blame (only a few); you cant ask for much more from Rivaldo, Anatolakis, Schurrer, Kafes, Stoltidis this season Bajevic gave us our most successful season in 99' and we were playing great football. Hes shown that he can succeed where other coaches in Greece have failed and even though he has to get the blame for the liverpool game; he gave us another great CL campaign. Definatly Ntousan should stay; Id hate to see who they'd bring in if we booted him out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bides Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 Yep like I've always said; Bajevic is a great coach and exactly who we need. Its true that some of our players are to blame (only a few); you cant ask for much more from Rivaldo, Anatolakis, Schurrer, Kafes, Stoltidis this season Bajevic gave us our most successful season in 99' and we were playing great football. Hes shown that he can succeed where other coaches in Greece have failed and even though he has to get the blame for the liverpool game; he gave us another great CL campaign. Definatly Ntousan should stay; Id hate to see who they'd bring in if we booted him out You know what you guys need a whole new roster excluding Nikopolides and georgatos and Okkas.. The rest of them ship them on aboat in pireaus and send them to god knows where maybe israel I think Maccabi is looking... What do u want Bayevic to do he is coaching a bunch of losers... rivaldo can stay too.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYC_Olympiakos Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 listen if its one area over the years Olympiakos has had alot of instability its the head coaching position i mean bajevic is not really good for substitutions but he is a good motivator and he seems to get young good players knows how to scout look he signed a 3 year deal and Olympiakos need to give him the opportunity to fullfill those years and see if he is the right man for the job i mean he does deserve it b/c it was he who architected those 7 straight titles and he did restore Olympiakos back to power when it had nuttin to say for 10 years he will bring us back the title and then hopefully more but needs time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Protathlitis Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 why do you talk so much &*$#? okkas can go play for a cypriot team who are happy with a great stiker who can score Id still take an Osfp player in just about every position if a had to make a greek league team. And I forgot to mention Antonis as well; things are differen twhen you have a quality keeper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CH-Thrylos Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 bajevic definately has to stay. like you said. he built the team that won the title after several years. he brought i a lot of players from small teams which turned into great players. the biggest problem he is facing now is that he doesnt have the financial support from kokkalis to make the signings he wants to make. if he could do that he would find the missing pieces of the puzzle. he would create a strong team again. unfortunately he has to face our divas in the team who think they can do what they want just because they have a big name. additionally he cant put some players on the position the belong to. if he could sign the players he wants, so that he can use the strengths of every players we would have a very good team. i just dont want to see another one of kokkalis fast decisions with changing the coach. if he wants our team to be strong he has to give bajevic some more time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Protathlitis Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 Im happy with Kokkalis; we've just built a Karaiskaki and he went out and got Ribo too. I think knows exaclty how badly we need a striker. but missing out on the millions from the 2nd round and this penalty we've got might have changed things though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dipapa Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 I was about to post a long essay about why Dousan should stay but CH-Thrylos has covered it so thoroughly that I have nothing more to say. Only one thing: if Kokalis fires this coach prematurely, I'll consider becoming fan of another team (not vazelos, for obvious reasons). Let's hope the management will act cold-bloodedly in order not to return in another medieval age like the 4 years after Bajevic (Bigon, Mantzourakis, Lemonis etc). Team management had showed patience for technically inadequate coaches like Lemonis so I don't get it why some people are whining about Bajevic. He is responsible for the very good CL "poreia" of OSFP this year, despite the difficulties. Vazelakia would tear their pants for getting him. Do we prefer Skazni or Anastopoulos ? :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CH-Thrylos Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 Im happy with Kokkalis; we've just built a Karaiskaki and he went out and got Ribo too. I think knows exaclty how badly we need a striker. but missing out on the millions from the 2nd round and this penalty we've got might have changed things though i'm happy with him too, but i dont think there is no money to spend. we all in all 13 matches at home as far as i know. if they think they will loose about 1.5 million through 5 matches we are supposed to have already made about 4 millions in these 13 matches. plus the money from three cl wins, plus the qualifiing money, plus all the shirts sold as soon as ribo signed, the media contracts, the inscriptions for osfp members (over 74'000 -> about 4.5 millions), etc.with all that stuffour team has certainly made more than 15 millions. it should be enough to buy at least a good stopper and a young and promising striker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dipapa Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 I don't think that it's easy to get a striker. Bajevic isn't a novice, he knows that effective strikers are costly to find in the middle of the season while a young and promising striker wouldn't be an immediate solution to current OSFP scoring problems. If we only had Houtos (and he was able to behave as a professional...). I don't agree that OSFP financials are so rosy. Yes, we aren't loosing money or forced to sell valuable players (like PAO does) but a team with so many expensive investments (stadium, expensive players) needs some safe margin. Greek clubs will never be the same after the notorious Alpha Channel fiasco, will they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYC_Olympiakos Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 Olympiakos has made more than 15 million euro's this season i mean the 3c.l. games the tickets are more costly from wut i heard than from regular season games the stadium has been paid already by the club but remember it was built for the olympics so they didn't spend as much as it would have been without the Olympics look Olympiakos last problem is money Kokkalis is loaded with that don't worry about money lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Protathlitis Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 I dont know about that; we are definatly finacially stable but a lot rests on champions league money and the federation just took 2million from our coffers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dipapa Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 Olympiakos has made more than 15 million euro's this season i mean the 3c.l. games the tickets are more costly from wut i heard than from regular season games the stadium has been paid already by the club but remember it was built for the olympics so they didn't spend as much as it would have been without the Olympics look Olympiakos last problem is money Kokkalis is loaded with that don't worry about money lol Ok, I'll have to put my .2$ (sorry for the long text).Kokalis is not a saint sent from heavens to save Olympiakos. He is just a businessman who likes football and power. Whether he starts loosing money or being involved in high risks, he will quit. Thanks to his smart strategic moves (stadium build in just one year, club membership, big names in the team etc), OSFP is the only Greek club with almost solid finances and a certain margin to withstand high losses like the recent penalty. In the world of business, that doesn't mean that from now on OSFP is free to disperse money here and there. They should preserve the money, ensure that cash will continue to flow in and slowly achieve the desired goals. If they want to be serious managers, they have to leave sentimentalism and hot-blooded decisions (like those of the past) aside. Do you remember the worthless transfers we made during the Lemonis period? There weren't any serious choices in this transfer period (or at least this is what they thought). Mantzios was ok I think but, perhaps, they thought that we don't need another offensive middle fielder. Zidane was too costly and weak. On the other side, Ribo and Gio are strong assets of OSFP as their names attract money to the club. When their relationship with Bajevic breaks, immediately effective decisions must be taken in order to keep cash flow. This is where Oly management difficulties lie : the team model consists of hiring big names who offer "virtuosité", thus attracting fans with their high technique so when the coach clashes with the big names, he is the probably the first one to go. With so many troubles in his head, I wonder where is time left for scouting. PAO follows a different model, especially after the failure with Souza and Asanovic : intensive scouting abroad, very cheap investments and quick profit by selling them immediately if they succeed. That is why they are still unable to build the stadium they need badly. That is why they keep bringing in "ergates" players from central or northern europe while OSFP prefers latin-americans. That is why they usually prefer defensive football. This (OSFP) or either (PAO) way, team management is like any business management : increase the incoming and make sure that the investments you make will bring more money in. Greek football is a highly risky business field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dipapa Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 the stadium has been paid already by the club but remember it was built for the olympics so they didn't spend as much as it would have been without the OlympicsI don't know exact numbers but the phenomenally fast building of the stadium (even without greek standards) would cost a fair amount of money. I don't think that their investment has fully returned, yet, so they have to pay the huge loan for a while.Nevertheless, sometimes I enjoy the pitiful state where the rest of the big (feel free to put in quotes) greek clubs are in. Isn't it funny that some vazeloi call us "shitty small club" while OSFP has its own modern stadium, the best training facilities and enough finances to buy all of their players? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Protathlitis Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 for sure kokkalis is a bussinessmen but he also loves Osfp and forgeting about any 'sentimentality' he has been very good for our club. If we had the kind of managment the gays have I'd be shattered Still I'd like him and vardinogiannis to stop encouraging hooliganism for the good of our league. Also, as much as I hate pao and want Osfp to rape them every time we play; I know that pao is easily the second biggest club in Greece and that if they fail its hard for OUR league to succeed what is your background dipapa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dipapa Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 what is your background dipapa? After my long idle-talk above, I was expecting this question :) I'm just an engineer with experience in industry and who slowly leaves technical sector for entering the managerial things. I'm still a starter though. Not that all I previously said above is more than what common sense dictates. Business world is harsh and inhumane. When acting as football fans, we endow ourselves some moments of irrational way of thinking but reality rushes in just in time to destroy our dreaming :( Truth is, I don't think that even Kokalis is thinking otherwise. I know that pao is easily the second biggest club in Greece and that if they fail its hard for OUR league to succeed [/quote}Ditto. Competition is good for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athinaios Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 Unlike PAO, OLY doesn't need to change the coach. Your coach is good enough but there is, I think, too much external pressure and mingling in his work. It's a cutlure thing. It may be a different culture, but it exists in all teams. Unfortunately, it's the "greek way" of unprofessionalism and not thinking long-term. If we don't succeed immediately, then we blame luck, the devil, everyone around us, and then we bring the hero-saviour to fix things..... Anyway, I think Bajevits may not have the best eye to make up a team (especially in subs) but your problems is the players. You've got enough talent to have a good team. A team that gells. Kokkalis cares for the club, and has spent tons of $, but, honestly, he should pull back a bit and let the coach and the professionals manage the team. Buying expensive and big names doesn't necessarily cover the true needs of the team. It's to impress the fans I think. You need a good stricker. Giovanni was never a classic center-forward. I still don't understand why he plays as such. Anyway, I do want the greek league to become stronger and more professional--in practice not in name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omonoia9 Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 Kokkalis and Bajevic are both making our team better, and in this upcoming hot streak, they will prove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Protathlitis Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 Can Dipapa or somebody try to explain why if kokkalis and vardinnogiannis are ONLY BUSINESSMEN; why do they insist on encouraging and protecting the hooligans?? if they were businessmen wouldent they realise that constant sanctioning from the league and reduce in ticket sales out of fear from the fans is VERY BAD FOR BUSINESS!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athinaios Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 An excellent point by Protathlitis..... Since OLY and PAO have lots of fans even the away games could be big money-makers if things were calm enough for fans to travel. Don't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CH-Thrylos Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 An excellent point by Protathlitis..... Since OLY and PAO have lots of fans even the away games could be big money-makers if things were calm enough for fans to travel. Don't you think? it should be like that, but since osfp, pao, aek and paok have the most fans in greece and the home team is only allowed to give 5% of the tickets to the visitors there will never be that many fans at a match with a small team. ;) if they would be just businessmen they would have realised that the actions they make are bad for football and their teams. i think it is more like a private "war" between these two guys. they want to prove that each of them is better then the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dipapa Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 Can Dipapa or somebody try to explain why if kokkalis and vardinnogiannis are ONLY BUSINESSMEN; why do they insist on encouraging and protecting the hooligans?? if they were businessmen wouldent they realise that constant sanctioning from the league and reduce in ticket sales out of fear from the fans is VERY BAD FOR BUSINESS!! That was a very senseful question and a reason for another long post. Sorry :)One easy answer would be the unprofessionalism of the greek presidents but that doesn't apply to Kokalis or Vardis. Let me assure you that they know how to control a large company without been hostages of an unpredictable mob. Another answer is that they are very busy persons so they are obliged to manage indirectly. So they share their power with persons more experienced in the greek football like Louvaris, Beos etc. Those persons are the legacy of the amateurish, dirty past and are used to control hooligans for their own purposes. But I think the above answer is only partially satisfactory. You must not see presidents (or club owners) as fully independent, self-sufficient leaders. You must see it more ...politically. Let's diverge it in a more understandable example for the moment: Let's examine the prime minister. Not only the current prime minister, just anyone. Is he able to do whatever he wants? How did he raised to power? Not without been bonded to a huge net of interconnections. He needs the support from syndicalist leaders, some influential persons in his party, businessmen to finance him and his party, powerful local "kommatarxes", press and tv owners to support him (or simply not to destroy him), ambassadors etc etc. When governing, all these people wait from him to support their cause. He may have some vision (or not) but that doesn't matter if he is not supported by all the above, at least by those who matter the most. So his rule is a continuous struggle to compromise those (often) contradictory power cells. Remember what happened when A. Papandreou tried to release himself from the press that was "friendly" to his party and raise Koskotas instead. He was simply eliminated by exactly the same newspapers who were supporting him before, despite that he was one of the most powerful party leaders in Greek political history. Do you think that, for some unknown reason, club owners aren't subjected to similar dependency rules? They didn't created the clubs, they simply bought the whole dirty "net" (a net similar to that mentioned above) and are forced to live with it. By breaking the affiliations with organized hooligans, not only they would loose a tool for influencing the masses but they would also start a battle with them. So I think that the greek club owners not only need too much devotion and decisiveness in order to get rid of hooligans but they are also hesitant in loosing a means for influencing state's decisions. The latter is a typically greek way of thinking, as athinaios would say. Let's hope that one day they 'll decide to put all those idiots in check. PS : forgive me for talking politics here. It was only an example and nothing more. Hoping this is the last time I fed you up with so much blah-blah here :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Protathlitis Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 i think there might be a combination of factors; the personal pride battle would have to play a part. Im not so sure about the idea that kokkalis doesent have complete control of Osfp: its his money. I think hes the 'figure head' as well as the 'emperor' of the club so to speak. I think a very valid point is that if kokkalis or vardinogiannis were to try and stop the hooligans or god forbid; ban them, then they might fight a battle from certain fan groups. That happened at barca and many other clubs in europe Your talking about the press; can you imagine Protathlitis turning AGAINST kokkalis :LOL: . At least Papandreou managed to weather the storm and win back power: I loved that guy; what a champion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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