Tsoglani Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bar7 Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 the problem stems from the top... there is no passion from Tzigger & that trickles right down to the players.... Ever since a passionate Cockkalis took over osfpp there has been domestic success, before him there was a gavro Tzigger who really didnt care.... In PAO'S case its time to change leaders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsoglani Posted December 18, 2006 Author Share Posted December 18, 2006 I am not a great fan of Tsigger either but at the moment he cant do much either for this situation .He reacted fast this time but the team sucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBoy13 Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 gia tin kaki poreia tou panathinaikou euthinete enas kai mono.. o Tzigger... autos o anthropos den itan pote konta stin omada... opote nikousan oi paixtes... ena bravo den edine stous paixtes... ena prim nikis... tpt apo ola auta... den einai konta stous paixtes... oute stous filathlous... emfanizete mono otan i omada den paei kala.. kai kanei ton ntai... oso o tzigger einai ekei... protathlima de tha doume.. den ginete na exoun perasei 20-30 proponites kai oute enas na min kanei.. eleos pia.. ara pezonte alla paixnidia apo piso... o Munoz einai o anthropos mas... aresei den aresei se kapious... autos o proponitis kai me ti voitheia tou kosmou kai fysika me ti voitheia ton paixtos.. kai me tis nees prosthikes pou tha ginoun tha ftasei psila tin omada... sigoura omos prepei na dioksei merikous paixtes... ego prosopika tha ithela na erthoun piso oi Pliagkas, Gantzef, Siontis kai ola ta pitsirika pou paizoun daneikoi se mikroteres omades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakos13 Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 assume there is a new management...you think the same group of players will act differently? what would you do Vardinogiannis isnt doing right now to get this "passion" or motivation you guys talk about? He already has frequent synantiseis with management, coaches/players latley its been reported many times players (more than i read about to say for AEK or Gay-ros / BAOK) and is active in trying to give support and direction to the team. So communication between management and players really doesnt seem like the main issue at all. Mistakes have been made/accumulated over time but the current performance crisis is not due to him directly, thats just unfair. Those players play like losers, and theres no organization from the football aspect. Management can do only a small percent but when players and trainers fail to function how they should, its time to start punishments or look for replacements. How many group meetings of confidence is enough to the point where you start punishing these guys for slacking off. To assume the only problem is managemetn fulfilling that small percent is just naive. Theres a lot of money, plans, communication from management that we know is publicized. Maybe not optimal but theirs definitly enough to show that theres not enough coming from the players doing their part here. Losing 3-1 to KERKYRA , not being able to pass the ball against Aris........Yeah ok long run/scale there is some effect of management. But a drop this rapidly? Cant be. Theyre getting good money, theyre getting support, they have faith, and should be excieted by the huge plans for the new stadium youd think too.... Some lost player issues/transfers concern them, but a dramatic drop in effort in form I dont beleive that management is responsible for that. Its stupid because whent the team is playing well like the other months, people give credit to the coach and players. But as soon as form turns, its all the managements fault. Munoz and the players are responsible for being worthless on the pitch. You cant pass a ball, you cant run, theres no discipline (red cards, fights) what exactly is Munoz doing in training lately? If the players cant play football anymore, coordinate, what the hell is being done in trainign?What is the fitness doing? Theres no performance, fighting... maybe the team just doesnt have a real leader? Eki has no business being considered as a captain. Pap doesnt seem to be a leader figure, and a team cant just 'import' a leader figure like they tried with Flavio. Its not all anybody's fault I cant excuse Munoz right now just because he started off well. Kerkyra should be Three points not Three one!!!! How the hell did we screw this up?????? Dont get me wrong I think management can do better, their mistakes arent current but accumlated over time and summer, but for right now the 11 players and trainer just a much more significant outcome, and the foundations, transfers, promotions, expansion of Panathinaikos is going just fine. The team matters are more for the athletes and trainers to get in order. Personally Id like Tzigger to stop being hard on individuals and take it out on the team (we dont know for sure if he has/hasnt) as a whole. 3-1 Kerkyra is disgraceful. I would tell them theyre about to be downsized, and dont expect to go to any club bigger than Panathinaikos or outside Greece. Tzigger should just sell off these losers and bring in newer more eager players to adapt over spring so we can have something going next year.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athinaios Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Oh boy, in my simple way of thinking: -Tzigger is a failed owner. He never put a good management team and honest advisors around him. Crappy scouts, worse than teams that beat us.. (if they have any scouts) Couldn't even find a decent coach until Munoz. -wasted tons of money with NOTHING to show for (yeah, that double... that even shooting craps would eventually happen) -no internal culture of champions; most tourists who come to collect $$$ and "play" for our team don't care/know about PAO. -no institutional memory... how championship teams won and played in the past... (this ties with the internal culture) -no appreciation for the players who contributed to the club. let's face it, you work for others but if you're not appreciated or get the support you need, then you simply don't care. -loss of identity; people at PAO today I don't think they care as much as others in the past Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bar7 Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 he is the common denominator... we've changed players... we've changed coaches... we've changed scouts... we've changed advisers... we've changed stadiums... we've changed shirt style.... TIME TO GET RID OF THE ONE THING LEFT... TZIGGER LET GIANNAKOPOULOS BROS RUN THE SHOW.... Even the gavri dont want Giannakopoulos here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athinaios Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 unfortunately, Tzigger is delusional, or doesn't care. He either thinks everyone else is responsible for this mess, or he just wants to play with a company that his family bought for him! Who knows, he may like the publicity, even if it's negative. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think PAO has had such a long drought under any other owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakos13 Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 oh hes made his mistakes no doubt but for current crisis like these - its total BS to not hold the players and playing staff responsible for the majority. Management culture is important, as well as player treatment. But seriously what the F*** is this performance they are doing? They talk, talk, talk bullshit to the media about goals and motivations and go out there like they dont give a s%$#!. Cut the media out. Dont let players talk to the media. They have 90 minutes a week to communicate with media and show what theyre aiming for this year. Is it because management is harsh or management is harsh because they play like this? its seems interconnected (what came first, egg or chicken? scenario) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyberfish Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 The players have been fined 100000 for the defeat at Kerkyra, and the money will be distributed to charitable organizations. If our defeats help make some needy people's life better, I don't mind if we lose every other Sunday :tup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trifilli Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 A good fine, is exactly what I was thinking of. I do not know if it was Tzigger's idea or it came from above, but I do agree. Good PR move to give it to charity :tup: Here is one of the comments on some of Tzigger's quotes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAO_OR_DEATH Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 this may be a lot of alcohol talking but i reckon F*** off to all those wash up cunts from overseas who werent good enough to play in their native countries.........maybe we keep a few such as ebede who is not to bad at the moment and our only goalkeeper, however i see it as pao and greek footballs fault to alow these poo jubers from spain,brazil werever who have no clue what it means to play for a greek club ruining our league. look at us fron the derby, we played well and won ever since then we played like bs. lets go and take the fuking cup win today though ZITO PAO MOY merry christmas too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athinaios Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 Guys, most of us here are ..international. We live in countries where we shouldn't be discriminated because of our national origin. Right? So, let's not be racists ourselves. There have been a few great foreing players that elevated and contributed to the sport in Greece... However, I think no one in Greece sees the big picture. People tend to support a team not because they sit down when they're mature and decide. They become fans for other reasons including IDENTITY. But, it's hard to identify with a team when it has a bunch of foreigners who come and go very frequently. Those players don't even know or appreciate the green jersey. Of course, they're gonna say all the right things in public, but they don't give a sh*t. With all the money the teams have spent getting foreign "talent" (and they have very little to show for) they could have built their own academies. Of course, this takes time and effort.... But, I believe fewer people (especially younger ones) develop the same passion for a football team these days. And, don't tell me this sport--for the most part--is entertaining to watch.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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