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Should Britain Leave EU?  

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  1. 1. Should Britain Leave EU?



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Μου ξέφυγε.

 

E τι μας παγίδεψαν; Τα λεφτά τους πίσω ζήτησαν...

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British PM Teresa May announced that she's resigning after suggesting a parliament vote that may include a second national referendum on Brexit.

It was here party and the former PM, Cameron, that started this whole mess.... obviously without a plan how to get it done. It was a risk only an idiot (Cameron) would take.

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13 hours ago, ukworm said:

Μου ξέφυγε.

 

E τι μας παγίδεψαν; Τα λεφτά τους πίσω ζήτησαν...

Yeah, because the Greek μαγκες thought they should have to pay those loans back....  Unfortunately for them they kept asking for more money (loans) because Greece was bankrupt!

When the world markets would not lend Greece a single dollar, given how risky this was, the EU still gave Greece loans with low interest rate but with the stipulation Greece would repay most (not all) of what it owed. Where's the trap? or the exploitation?  That's why several EU countries were 100% against giving Greece any new loans....    Oh, we cried laughing when some "geniuses" said that Greece should go back to the drachma.....🤣  a worthless currency that nobody would accept at a time when Greece imports almost everything....  tsk.

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They lent money knowing very well that Greece would never be able to pay it back. The aim was never to be paid back in cash. The aim was always to be repaid in assets, which is exactly what is being done.

I cannot believe people still cannot see this.

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^^^^

One of the most incredulous arguments I've seen here (and heard in many gatherings of Greeks)...

What kind of an excuse is this? Don't give me money because I don't know how to handle it and be responsible! If you do, then don't blame me for irresponsibility.... it is you who's at fault!   

But, when Greeks are told they're not mature to be in charge of their own affairs, they take offense!  Sadly, it's been always the case, since the failed revolution of 1821. Greeks themselves echoed the argument above and called foreigners to be in charge, from King Otto to the foreign refs in domestic sports leagues today!

Funny, they also think they're superior to everyone else.   [referring to recent Pew Research survey of Europeans about people's cultures that showed 90% of Greeks believe "we may not be perfect" but we're better than anyone else]  I'm of Greek dissent and I'm embarrassed by such attitudes.

 

Edited by Hudson
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14 hours ago, Hudson said:

What kind of an excuse is this? Don't give me money because I don't know how to handle it and be responsible! If you do, then don't blame me for irresponsibility.... it is you who's at fault!

When you say "you", who exactly do you mean? I suppose you agree with Pangalos when he said "Ta fagame mazi". The fact is that the ones responsible for all that happened are a very small group of corrupt individuals. What's incredulous is that many of them (or their offspring) are still around active in politics and business. Laying responsibilities on the vast majority of the people who have had a corrupt system imposed on them and having to find a way to survive within that system for years, is like blaming the casual football fan that watches the matches on tv on the weekend and occasionally attends a game for corruption and game fixing in the GSL. It's the common people who had "austerity" imposed on them to bail out the small minority in charge of the financial workings of the country and allow them to continue to operate.

Edited by AchillesHeel

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1. "The EU is a gang". Oh yeah? Really? Because you say so? Because Farage says so?

They have a history of ignoring referenda that doesn't go their way just ask the Danes Dutch French and Irish voters. They sent the boys round to bash up Catalan voters that wanted to secede.

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"The first crime is the currency". Really? This is just BS. Greece WANTED to join. They weren't forced. Britain wanted to stay out, they were allowed to stay out. What are you on about?

Criteria for all new members is they adopt the Euro

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. Yes people were lied by politicians! Which makes this referendum a total farce!

By your logic then every election is also a farce, lets just ignore those too because we didn't like the result.

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4. What Brexit did you vote for do you know? Are you ready for no deal? Are you ready to possibly become poorer? You don't have answers for that, do you? What the hell do you think this is? The Darkest Hour movie? This is real life and stupid choices matter!

Lets not try and rewrite history, the UK government sent leaflets to every house in the UK urging people to vote remain but making assurances that the result would be respected, also Cameron Osborne Clegg Johnson and many others on both sides all made it pretty clear on the Andrew Marr show that leaving meant exiting the single market and customs union lets not pretend we didn't know what Brexit meant.

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At least I voted remain, knowing that remain is clear, we carry on as is. I am happy with my life in Britain, extremely happy with quality of life and my income, so we remain and we fight from WITHIN the EU TO MAKE THINGS BETTER for the UK (clearly things can be improved but UK has the GRAVITAS to push for changes).

My goodness aren't you virtuous because you voted remain, I'm pleased for you that you have a wonderful living standard in the UK so we should ignore the referendum because you're thrilled how things are, but many aren't as fortunate as you, guess they don't matter. Funny how it's ok for you to call them Chavs whilst at the same time accusing them of being racists and too stupid to vote.

Lets stay and make changes from within, good idea mate it's worked the last 40 years hasn't it? Just ask our fishermen if you can find any.

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When you voted leave, which leave did you vote for? . Did you vote for Leave with a deal or no deal? WTO terms? Customs union? Border in IE? Admit that you had NO clue my friend. And don't just say "LEAVE is LEAVE" like those chavs or QT, because clearly we have seen that there are at least 10 versions of LEAVE, and if you go for NO DEAL LEAVE, be prepared for the worst. I am not saying it will happen, but I have NO proof that it won't happen either.

Ah those  brainless Chavs spoiled thing for everyone didn't they, but you can relax with your feet up and big income because we ain't going anywhere, like I pointed out 3 years ago straight after the referendum. And there aren't 10 versions of leave, it was made pretty clear what leave was with the government leaflets and the politicians trying to scare the voters by saying clearly leaving means out of the single market and customs union and the European court not being able the supersede the UK courts. 

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All Brexit is, is the rich manipulating ignorant and racist people to vote to make themselves poorer. The Brexit charge was led by Boris Johnson (born Ironically from a Turkish immigrant father) and obviously an opportunist who will say and do anything (even contradict himself) to get into Number 10, Nigel Farrage (a vile Racist) and Jacob Rees Mogg a disaster Capitalist who is just looking to enrich himself out of Brexit and has already moved his fortune to Rep of Ireland in order to avoid the effects a Hard Brexit will have on it and to avoid the EU's Anti Tax Avoidance Directive which came into effect at the beginning of 2019. Not to mention the Leave campaign blatantly lied and manipulated the stupid on Facebook by printing misstruths perpetuated by Cambridge Analytica

I seem to remember Cameron trying to scare us into voting remain, in fact he was caught giving government contracts to 4 companies in exchange for them announcing leave would be disastrous for Britain, so there were rich people campaigning for remain, but it's quite telling that you call those who voted out - who had the audacity to not agree with you - 'ignorant and racist people' not sure by the way how some can make themselves poorer when they're completely broke, besides how do you know we'll all be poorer?

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The poor saps who voted for it are just like turkeys wishing for Christmas and the country is already starting to see the effect this is happening with the Nissan not building the X-Trail in Sunderland, the Honda plant closing in Sheffield etc. Yeah they've came out and said its not because of Brexit but any idiot can read between the lines and see it is. The Nissan X-Trail and Honda's will now be built in Japan, who incidentally recently signed a Trade Agreement with the EU so no import tariffs will be imposed!

 

Why would Nissan build Diesel cars in the UK when they can't sell them in the UK? and the reason they can't sell them in the UK is because of the low emission zones and taxes being implemented on Diesel cars as part of green legislation which makes Diesels not viable economically for people, green legislation which incidentally came from Brussels, which is why they are being built in Japan and not another EU country. 

Your language is very telling and typical of a lot remain folk that our media are full of, poor saps eh? Any idiot can read between the lines? Nissan made their reasons clear which make complete business sense, what lines am I missing that I should read between.

 

The arrogance and complete contempt for democracy and feeling of knowing what's best is breathtaking.  We'll ignore what the majority voted for because they're just stupid ignorant racist chavs that don't know what's best for them. But like I said you can all relax because we ain't going nowhere.

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13 hours ago, AchillesHeel said:

When you say "you", who exactly do you mean? I suppose you agree with Pangalos when he said "Ta fagame mazi". The fact is that the ones responsible for all that happened are a very small group of corrupt individuals. What's incredulous is that many of them (or their offspring) are still around active in politics and business. Laying responsibilities on the vast majority of the people who have had a corrupt system imposed on them and having to find a way to survive within that system for years, is like blaming the casual football fan that watches the matches on tv on the weekend and occasionally attends a game for corruption and game fixing in the GSL. It's the common people who had "austerity" imposed on them to bail out the small minority in charge of the financial workings of the country and allow them to continue to operate.

ΟΚ, fair points... about the few Greeks that had/have no way to react to a bad system. Yet, I do believe most Greeks are responsible if they support parties and leaders that tell them what they want to hear. Not unlike in this forum, when we discuss historical facts versus the fiction most Greeks want to believe. (national propaganda, like national poet Solomos and others had argued, truth is whatever serves the national interest)

You argue, what can I do? the system is what it is...  Pangalos is right and wrong.... Yeah, the EU money was mostly wasted in bribes, corruption, and hiring unnecessary bureaucrats. There are lots of things individuals can do, themselves and collectively.  Good example you use about football fans....  How many do you honestly believe are the sensible ones? This is a sports league100% made and run by Greeks.  [well, except the disgrace to call in foreign refs lately... which shows that Greeks can't be in charge of their own affairs?]....

If I were in Greece, I would not participate in this charade and wouldn't spend a penny until there was serious improvement. I'd also demand from the political leaders to fix this... and go after my favorite team's leaders if they broke the law. Democracy may be the best regime of all we've tried but it requires sensible people.  For example, Trump wouldn't be empowered if it weren't for 40% of Americans who still support him. A con man wouldn't be able to sell you b.s. if people weren't buying.

Yet, I'm afraid the corruption is not only at the top--saying so it's only a convenient excuse. It's a culture of corruption and a long tradition of the worst politics.....

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Hudson, you clearly have not read my posts properly as I stated that the first to blame were the Greeks themselves.

With regards to accepting bailouts, allow me to compare to situation to a heroin addict. An addict (Greece) is in terrible shape and can barely look after itself (corruption, economy). However, when give a fix (bailout), the addict is able function just a little until it wears off (bailout money running out). Instead of getting clean the addict thinks just one more hit will do the trick (one more bailout package). The dealer (EU) knows that it won't be the last and knows that the addict has no money to pay him back though has certain assets. The dealer keeps feeding the addiction until one day he demands he money back. This is (no doubt) a common story of dealers and gangs getting back what is owed to them.

In order for an addict to get clean, they need to go cold turkey. That involves a lot of suffering, vomiting and sleepless nights. In order for Greece to get clean there would be long term suffering by finally turning our backs on the EU. Unfortunately we are all selfish and choose only the short term quick fixes.

I see the Brexit party got a majority in the EU parliament. I also see Boris gunning for the top job and claiming he will push Brexit through with or without a deal. Not sure I would vote for any of these under normal circumstances but at least they will finally cut immediate ties with this immoral gang.

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On 5/29/2019 at 7:39 PM, js1000 said:

They have a history of ignoring referenda that doesn't go their way just ask the Danes Dutch French and Irish voters. They sent the boys round to bash up Catalan voters that wanted to secede.

Criteria for all new members is they adopt the Euro

By your logic then every election is also a farce, lets just ignore those too because we didn't like the result.

Lets not try and rewrite history, the UK government sent leaflets to every house in the UK urging people to vote remain but making assurances that the result would be respected, also Cameron Osborne Clegg Johnson and many others on both sides all made it pretty clear on the Andrew Marr show that leaving meant exiting the single market and customs union lets not pretend we didn't know what Brexit meant.

My goodness aren't you virtuous because you voted remain, I'm pleased for you that you have a wonderful living standard in the UK so we should ignore the referendum because you're thrilled how things are, but many aren't as fortunate as you, guess they don't matter. Funny how it's ok for you to call them Chavs whilst at the same time accusing them of being racists and too stupid to vote.

Lets stay and make changes from within, good idea mate it's worked the last 40 years hasn't it? Just ask our fishermen if you can find any.

Ah those  brainless Chavs spoiled thing for everyone didn't they, but you can relax with your feet up and big income because we ain't going anywhere, like I pointed out 3 years ago straight after the referendum. And there aren't 10 versions of leave, it was made pretty clear what leave was with the government leaflets and the politicians trying to scare the voters by saying clearly leaving means out of the single market and customs union and the European court not being able the supersede the UK courts. 

Small detail, you have forgotten about the Good Friday agreement. Your great Brexit plan (yes, that single version of Brexit you are talking about!) has just gone down the toilet from the outset. That's how well thought out it was! "In need for a 2nd version urgently"! And the more people are talking about it the more holes are uncovered. "We need 10 versions now!". Ooooops...!!! What you DON'T understand is that Europeans know the laws of the EU inside out, while the UK is clueless and hence easy prey.... This is the reason why there are 10 versions of Brexit: because people were driven by misinformation and populism, not knowledge, not facts.... Get it now? 

The no deal Brexit you are advocating is a fantasy, it doesn't exist....

As I say: Leavers should have hired trained monkeys to prepare a better plan than the one you voted for (funny enough prepared by Etonians/Oxfordians and/or city traders Boris and Farage).... The irony eh? Oxfordians on their private yachts holding a glass of champagne laughing, leading the herd of clueless chavs. Loving it.... Priceless.  

What percentage of the annual GDP is the fishing industry? How about Financial Services/Banking/Automotive? If the latter are screwed my friend, then make no mistake fishermen (and everyone else) will be F***ed too. Did that ever cross your mind? No.

You aren't going anywhere, good luck..... Feel free to F*** up the country. But let me tell you - You are barking at the wrong tree. It's highly likely you won't be better off if UK leaves without a deal. Good luck working out a plan B for yourself whilst in free fall.... You and all the chavs you are referring to (especially them!).

PS: I like your logic: "I have NO clue how leave without a deal is going to play out, I have no idea what's going to happen, but that's what people voted for, that's what I want, because we are British, because we are a proud nation".  Yeah go on, let's leave everything to chance... Excellent strategy.

Edited by ukworm
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On 5/31/2019 at 7:30 AM, Athens4 said:

Hudson, you clearly have not read my posts properly as I stated that the first to blame were the Greeks themselves.

With regards to accepting bailouts, allow me to compare to situation to a heroin addict. An addict (Greece) is in terrible shape and can barely look after itself (corruption, economy). However, when give a fix (bailout), the addict is able function just a little until it wears off (bailout money running out). Instead of getting clean the addict thinks just one more hit will do the trick (one more bailout package). The dealer (EU) knows that it won't be the last and knows that the addict has no money to pay him back though has certain assets. The dealer keeps feeding the addiction until one day he demands he money back. This is (no doubt) a common story of dealers and gangs getting back what is owed to them.

In order for an addict to get clean, they need to go cold turkey. That involves a lot of suffering, vomiting and sleepless nights. In order for Greece to get clean there would be long term suffering by finally turning our backs on the EU. Unfortunately we are all selfish and choose only the short term quick fixes.

I see the Brexit party got a majority in the EU parliament. I also see Boris gunning for the top job and claiming he will push Brexit through with or without a deal. Not sure I would vote for any of these under normal circumstances but at least they will finally cut immediate ties with this immoral gang.

"Immoral gang".... hahaha OK. They are not immoral. Aπλά είναι ΔΙΑΒΑΣΜΕΝΟΙ ΑΓΟΡΙ ΜΟΥ..... Τhey simply know their stuff. You can only fight them with knowledge (which is clearly lacking in both GR & UK Gov's).

And who is moral? Boris who's being investigated for his claims re: the £300m for the NHS? Or Farage the Muppet who jumped ship 3 days after the referendum?

I will just sit back and enjoy the show from now on. One of all those lazy f****** becoming PM. It was so easy to sit back and backstub May over and over. Let's see what you are made of now.... 

PS Brexit party didn't get the majority FYI: Brexit + UKIP  <  LibDem + ChangeUK + Greens + SNP

 

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On 5/29/2019 at 8:11 PM, js1000 said:

I seem to remember Cameron trying to scare us into voting remain, in fact he was caught giving government contracts to 4 companies in exchange for them announcing leave would be disastrous for Britain, so there were rich people campaigning for remain, but it's quite telling that you call those who voted out - who had the audacity to not agree with you - 'ignorant and racist people' not sure by the way how some can make themselves poorer when they're completely broke, besides how do you know we'll all be poorer?

Why would Nissan build Diesel cars in the UK when they can't sell them in the UK? and the reason they can't sell them in the UK is because of the low emission zones and taxes being implemented on Diesel cars as part of green legislation which makes Diesels not viable economically for people, green legislation which incidentally came from Brussels, which is why they are being built in Japan and not another EU country. 

Your language is very telling and typical of a lot remain folk that our media are full of, poor saps eh? Any idiot can read between the lines? Nissan made their reasons clear which make complete business sense, what lines am I missing that I should read between.

 

The arrogance and complete contempt for democracy and feeling of knowing what's best is breathtaking.  We'll ignore what the majority voted for because they're just stupid ignorant racist chavs that don't know what's best for them. But like I said you can all relax because we ain't going nowhere.

Get your facts right. Low emission zone doesn't apply to new Euro 6 diesels. Diesels are still cheaper than electrics (TCO). Also, the grid and general infrastructure of the country is NOT ready for electric cars. If we were to switch to electrics overnight, the grid would collapse. Diesels still make perfect business sense...

So why is it that these manufacturers are pulling out then?

Or, why is it that they aren't planning to build their electrics here then?

ONE WORD for you: Uncertainty. And business HATES uncertainty.

PS - try to read between the lines here mate. Even if Honda doesn't blame their departure on Brexit publicly, make no mistake that BREXIT IS BEING DISCUSSED IN EVERY SINGLE FRICKING BOARDROOM AND MEETING ROOM IN EVERY SINGLE CORPORATE. (But they aren't going to tell you). 

Edited by ukworm
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Well, the Brexiteers are getting a boost from Trump today... when he expressed his support for Boris and Nigel.

Earlier, he tweeted:

@SadiqKhan, who by all accounts has done a terrible job as Mayor of London, has been foolishly “nasty” to the visiting President of the United States, by far the most important ally of the United Kingdom. He is a stone cold loser who should focus on crime in London, not me......

and,

....Kahn reminds me very much of our very dumb and incompetent Mayor of NYC, de Blasio, who has also done a terrible job - only half his height. In any event, I look forward to being a great friend to the United Kingdom, and am looking very much forward to my visit. Landing now!


Very mature and appropriate for the President of the US, don't you think?

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45 minutes ago, athinaios said:

Well, the Brexiteers are getting a boost from Trump today... when he expressed his support for Boris and Nigel.

Earlier, he tweeted:

@SadiqKhan, who by all accounts has done a terrible job as Mayor of London, has been foolishly “nasty” to the visiting President of the United States, by far the most important ally of the United Kingdom. He is a stone cold loser who should focus on crime in London, not me......

and,

....Kahn reminds me very much of our very dumb and incompetent Mayor of NYC, de Blasio, who has also done a terrible job - only half his height. In any event, I look forward to being a great friend to the United Kingdom, and am looking very much forward to my visit. Landing now!


Very mature and appropriate for the President of the US, don't you think?

What he "forgot" to say was: "I can support Boris and Farage all I want, and I can say whatever the F*** I want (as I do), but if no deal Brexit turns out to be a disaster, and the country goes down the toilet, well, don't blame me, nothing to do with me. Now sort your own shite out, bye bye and good luck".....

Like the old Greek joke that goes: να μωρέ, καθόμαστε εδώ, βαριόμαστε να πούμε, και λέμε και καμιά μαλακία για να περάσει η ώρα... Αυτός είναι ο Trump.... 

Edited by ukworm
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ukworm, it is people who share your fear of the unknown and potential sacrifice of the present for a better future that are holding both of my countries (England and Greece) back. As I said, I have no problem with all these financial instituions shutting up shop and heading to Paris, Frankfurt or Milan. We both know they'll stay anyway.

As I said before, if what the majority of the British people voted for really annoys you then why stay? Germany has a fantastic quality of life and in cities like Berlin or Frankfurt you don't even need to speak German to live and work there.

Υγ, Κι'επειδή ειναι διαβασμένοι σημαίνει οτι είναι και ηθικοί;

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First of all let me say that Leave WAS the majority when the referendum took place. That was when Leave was that ideal situation, like a nonstop honeymoon kind of thing where UK gets what it wants. Now that all the lies have been shamelessly revealed and the honeymoon is over, and people understand that it's utopia and potentially a catastrophe, LEAVE IS NO LONGER THE MAJORITY (as every single poll will tell you). And this is exactly the reason why hardli(n)e brexiteers don't want a peoples vote. Because they know full well they will lose hands down. Not because a people's vote is undemocratic or because they care about democracy.

 

Secondly this conversation is not about me and whether I move to Germany or Swaziland. What I do is my business so don't you worry about that. Better Start worrying about yourself my dear friend...

Thirdly you must live in cloud Cuckoo land if you don't care about the consequences of half of banks and big corporations taking their business elsewhere. We are talking about an economy which is mainly based on services!!!! You are totally detouched from reality so you basically need to grow up. 

 

Where is your optimism for a better future based on? I have given you 10 reasons why things may go the other way.

Hard facts please. Not interested in I think, I believe, we could, we may, we might.

 

ΥΓ Τι ανήθικο έκαναν; Απλά οι άλλοι πήγαν σαν ξεφραγο αμπέλι και οι Ευρωπαίοι τους διελυσαν. Όπως έκαναν και με το Τσιπρακι που ΘΑ τους χορευε με τα νταούλια....

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As I said, let's keep having a referendum until Remain wins.

I don't think you have grasped what I am talking about. I would rather have the uncertainty (something I see as opportunity anyway) than be bound to the gang. It is as simple as that.

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I understand everything you've said which basically boils down to:

  • Let's not worry about the consequences of our actions, let's just jump off the cliff without safety net.
  • Let's not worry about uncertainty, let's just call it "opportunity" and everything will be fine somehow, right?

Only problem is, not even sweet shops are run like that, let alone Countries. 

Let's just hope that Boris and the rest of the Brexiteer muppets (with loads of ££££££££ in their bank accounts leading the plebs-what an oxymoron!) have a slightly better plan than that. From what I have seen thus far, in fact, I don't think they do.... But hey, we got that trustworthy chap Trump supporting us now, telling us to go ahead with Brexit, deal or no deal! Hooray! I feel much better now! Yeah!

(only he won't be held accountable for whatever happens after...)

PS - To make myself clear - all this time I have been talking about a NO DEAL Brexit. If there's a deal, I got no issues.

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You really are scared of life without the EU. They have you right where they want you.

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I am scared of jumping off the cliff without safety net. If you aren't, try it and let us know what it felt (if you come back in one piece...). Sure it will be very thrilling.

PS - I am all for calculated risk, but this just bonkers.

PS2 - Latest news - Ford shutting down factory. Of course they are not going to tell you it's Brexit-related because they don't want to be involved in an already heated political argument, after all they want to sell cars to everyone remainers and brexiteers. 

Do I feel sorry for the factory workers who voted Brexit and will be losing their jobs? NO! As far as I am concerned, they can go and f****** themselves. Good riddance.

 

 

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On 6/6/2019 at 6:39 PM, Athens4 said:

You really are scared of life without the EU. They have you right where they want you.

Com'on, this is not a good argument..... "they have you where they want you..."

If so then, can it be argued that you could be a victim of ...those who  "they have YOU where they want you"?

Also, you seem to argue that the "leave" supporters got things* right but the "remain" ones are deceived...

 

*as far as any reasonable observer (not casual observer) would tell you that the worst misinformation campaign came from the Brexiteers.  Those who voted to remain basically said we know what we've got and we like it. It'd have been harder to confuse the ones who have had the EU experience already!

 

I also noticed you've said several times.... "let's keep having a referendum until Remain wins".....   Could you tell us who is actually saying this??!!    

Even if the winners of the Brexit poll weren't misinformed [in my mind they were VERY misinformed, but let's just say they weren't]....  After many years of trying to leave the EU there has been NO consensus on how to do it, plus many more problems surfaced since.  This issue has sucked the air out of the room.... and eventually the gov/PM has fallen.

It's not at all unreasonable, under these circumstances to have a second poll on the issue, which basically the choice would be, leave with no plan and all its consequences...

Much like the Greek poll about the EU's plan for Greece.  Of course the "NO" voters expected something else. In my opinion they were lied to and/or they wanted to believe whatever made them feel better but was totally unreal. If you had told them, look, if you vote NO, not only your gov won't do what bullsh*t they sold you, but the terms of the bailout will be worse and this stupid gamble would cost (as it did) tens of millions more in interest rates and terms after the poll.  Sounds familiar?

 

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couldn't have said it better myself...

To add couple more points....

No deal Brexit is like a divorce where parties don't agree and that's very bad for everyone. It will be utterly stupid if we end up going down that road.... 

I am happy for Boris to go there and negotiate harder and get a better deal (as he's stated), it will be better for all of us living in Britain. 

However - judgement day for me will be what happens if he doesn't get what he wants.... which is most likely what WILL happen....

This is a negotiation (=compromise) and no matter what the outcome, those stupid hard Brexiteers will never be satisfied.

My attempt to predict the future. The good scenario.

The way things are now (looking at the 11 candidates), 2nd referendum (or peoples' vote - call it what you want) is unlikely. 

Boris wins easily, Boris goes to EU gets a slightly better deal (I mean - you wouldn't even notice!!), sells it (falsely) to Parliament as a "great win" but marginally wins the vote in the Commons (swing vote from some soft remainers).

The bad scenario: dont even want to think about it...

PS - Hot off the press. Amber Rudd says that if Boris tries to do anything stupid, MPs will block him and we will go for a general election. And then I am afraid there will be total chaos.....

(Someone must write a book how a modern, forward and outward looking country, always looking to form alliances, always looking to progress, turned itself into an introverted, problematic, extreme right, populist, self-inflicted mess in 3 years... Bravo......)

Edited by ukworm
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Οταν βγούμε (βασικά οπως πάει το πράγμα εαν βγούμε) απο την Ευρώπη και είμαστε μια χαρά, μη χαθείς.

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Εγώ φίλε μου δε θα χαθώ γιατί έχω plan B (και plan C).

Δεν ξέρω εσύ και όλοι οι άλλοι οι περήφανοι Brexiters τι έχετε.....

Όλοι εσείς που θα διαπραγματευτείτε σκληρά και είστε περήφανοι Βρετανοί και δεν σηκώνετε μύγα στο σπαθί σας και έτσι που είστε μάγκες θα πάτε στο WTO και θα τα στήσετε όλα από την αρχή.... Και οι ευκαιρίες είναι μπροστά σας.... Καλά κρασιά δηλαδή....

Να ρωτήσουμε αυτούς που φάγανε σούτι από τη Ford να μάθουμε....; Λέω εγώ...

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