Winter Transfers

[cyberfish]

:rolleyes:

that's an argument I made several times, and I posted everyone's age as well. It's all back there somewhere, and it's an argument we agree on.

By "youth" I mean what the Greek league considers youth (probably 23-25). I don't remember the time a 19 or 20 year old started for Pao (maybe Mavridis and Th. Dimopoulos in the Gmoh era)

That's besides the point though. There is no player in Greece that we can be really excited about getting in the winter transfer season, youth or old. No matter the age, if we buy them, they will all be question marks and "projects".

Really, who is out there that can come tomorrow and plug the huge holes in RB against the best wingers in europe and in Greece? Any names?

[athinaios]

Guys you make excellent points. This is what I want to see: Not big talents or big names/has beens. I don't want to be impressed by names. I want to see BASIC stuff/skills! This is what I mean:

1. shows up every game and gives 100%

2. does simple things well.

3. 3 solid defensemen (RB/LB/CB)

4. fire minimum of 6 players (we know who they are) that deserve no more chances and money!

If I get those things, I don't care if we don't get another striker. The problem has been feeding/servicing our strikers. Mantzios wil return after the break. Our team suffers because we SUCK in the back, our middle can't connect with the offense, and MOST IMPORTANTLY many players are INCONSISTENT including the ones who've shown good talent.

Finally, I want to tell everyone to SHUT up when they tell us: "

[drakos13]

:rolleyes:

that's an argument I made several times, and I posted everyone's age as well. It's all back there somewhere, and it's an argument we agree on.

By "youth" I mean what the Greek league considers youth (probably 23-25). I don't remember the time a 19 or 20 year old started for Pao (maybe Mavridis and Th. Dimopoulos in the Gmoh era)

That's besides the point though. There is no player in Greece that we can be really excited about getting in the winter transfer season, youth or old. No matter the age, if we buy them, they will all be question marks and "projects".

Really, who is out there that can come tomorrow and plug the huge holes in RB against the best wingers in europe and in Greece? Any names?

I disagree.... Koiliaras has shown some exceptional talent for a 20 year old, and could be a great attacking midfielder for the ethniki one day. He would be a great addition...

but yeah we just need somebody to do WORK i could care less about the name....of what ive seen of Skopelitis at Aigaleo i think he could do just fine rotating in at PAO...hard worker, determined, leader, not too young not too old....why not?

[bar7]

i think paok want to rid themselves of Torgelle....

would PAO take him????

[cyberfish]

I like both players and I hope we make a move. I think both players could fill in when needed and they are fighters.

[NikosVazelas]

tziolis is 22 btw and leontiou is 22 as well. also HOLLYWOOD, when tziolis and mantzios were brought to pao from panionio they were 20 and 21 respectively. does THAT fit ur idea of youth?

we need a striker for one reason and one reason only. pap and salpi are similar type players.

and we all know our need at RB.

i think CB is ok with morris( one of the best in greece) and goumas with kotsio and Anotonsson as subs.

[athinaios]

A mature team is one that has consistency. This is best achieved by having experienced players and a stable team environment. You do bring in youngsters but you can't expect to lift most of the weight. If they have talent, they learn from veterans, from a good system (that a good coach brings) and grow.

PAO has been a collection of incompatible players, frequent reshuffling, crises, instability, etc.

I hope Munoz stays and is truly given the authority to shape the team. Let's not forget that he didn't train this team and didn't have any say about the players on the roster. Hopefully he can get rid much of the garbage (and expensive furniture like Biscan) soon.

Yes, another striker different from Pap & Salpi would be good, but I see as our #1 priority our defense, LB & RB. Ceric is a disappointment too in my opinion. He's inconsistent, gets tons of cards, and he's too expensive for what he's worth. Vyntra... well, nothing more to say...

No matter whom we got on offense if our midfield can't connect it's rather pointless, don't you think?

[NikosVazelas]

id say ur midfield is deep enough to try playing the famous ajax '3-5-2'

i always thought that with this system, the team with a strong midfield can totally dominate ball control and fear only long balls down the middle. bovio could always drop back and help the d during counter attacks.

then again, thats why i am not coaching a team. but hey.. im entitled to my opinion. i say f-it.. go 3-5-2

haha

[HOLLYWOOD]

Were looking at Rosonberg from Ajax to be our striker....

http://www.sport.gr/news/061216/football_fpaoroz.asp

[bar7]

Besiktas offering 2 mil for Biscan.... sell him NOW

[athinaios]

let's see we need about... 9-10 players! Yeah, but after this, we'll be ready next year.. (or the year after that, or...)

[NikosVazelas]

i dont think we should hate them cuz they havent played well. even through tough times u must support ur team and to say we need 9 or 10 players isnt the way we should be thinking. we did that once when we lost to osfp and got rid of all the players. look at us now. we are by no means the worst teams in the league.

we will finish in the top 3. whether its 1st ( complete collapse by osfp) or second (medium sized collapse by AEK) or 3rd (i wonder who we will draw in the uefa qualies next year?)

on the flip side, trying to be positive, at least we can win a few games in europe again next year and help our personal team coefficient place us in good draws for the future.

later skaters.

[cyberfish]

We have some good talent on this team, but we also have some dead wood.

If I were pao management this January I would unload (in this order):

Biscan, Vintra, Anric, Nilsson, Darla

and I would bring in starters in these positions (in this order):

RB, CF, LB, CB, LM

Beyond this I am sure after the last few games that changes must be made beyond the player personnel.

Our scouting has been atrocious in the last five years. We wasted money on players that played horribly (Conceicao, Biscan, Andric, Seric, Vintra, Nilsson) or who were good players but did not play the part we bought them for (Gonzales, Ivanschitz, Romero, Antonsson, Theodoridis, Mantzios, etc)

The biggest mistake in my book is the fact that we seem to buy players that we know they will be back-ups. A team like Panathinaikos needs to only buy starters and let them fight it out on the pitch to see who is going to start week in and week out. This whole idea of promoting talanted players is a catchy one, but they need to be eased into the team. It breaks my heart when we absolutely need to turn a game in the second half, and all we can manage is to put in Tziolis or Leontiou or Darlas.

I think Livathinos is responsible for scouting and maybe it's time he finds another job.

Our team organization must be really bad. I don't know what's going on in the dressing room but when the team has no cohesion and no heart, Apostolakis and Velic must be held responsible. They are the ones in direct contact with the team and responsible for football operations. I thing we need some spark. Also, why in the universe didn't we have a striker to put in the game at the end? Even if Bake had said he didn't need any, why didn't Livathinos or Apostolakis tell him that this ain't the Sweedish high school league? Why Bake? Why the bad prep this summer? Where was Apostolakis to tell everyone to pick it up?

Moving upwards, the president Mitsou has not helped this team with any kind of leadership. He has been absent ever since Tziger decided to be more visible, and he just seems too nice to be leading such a franchise.

Lastly, some thoughts on the owner. I am not sure what Tziger's qualifications are to be running a top football team, but I will venture a good guess: he doesn't have any. He has no prior experience of running a top venue or with managing personnel.

He manned the team with the wrong personnel constantly and has made the wrong decision two out of three times. Besides the stadium that seems to be moving along, our team is reeling from lack of leadership and bad decisions. I count among them the firing of a winning coach and a winning manager (Schum and Zaets), the unloading of some good players (no I don't think releasing Lyberopoulos, Sapanis, Karagounis, Munch was a mistake) and buying much mediocre talent. Also, this coaching carousel has been pathetic.

Indicative of the amateur nature of our management was the move to determine bonus pay sometime in November. Is it a coinsidence that our players play so badly after the talks about the season bonus with management when Tziger decreed that there will be no bonus for the UEFAcup or anything else. Only bonus for winning the championship. Someone tell Tziger that negative re-enforcement works with eight-year olds, but not with grown me. If you ever had a job you would know that bonus pay is the most contentious issue for all employees and the one issue that can crash morale overnight.

And why didn't they have this settled before the season opened?

As far as I am concerned, we need to find some winners on and off the pitch, but I don't have any confidence it will happen.

Edit: I almost forgot the most important blunder: Championship teams don't choose the games they want to win and the ones they can afford to lose. Championship teams get in the pitch to win no matter what.

[bar7]

We have some good talent on this team, but we also have some dead wood.

If I were pao management this January I would unload (in this order):

Biscan, Vintra, Anric, Nilsson, Darla

and I would bring in starters in these positions (in this order):

RB, CF, LB, CB, LM

Beyond this I am sure after the last few games that changes must be made beyond the player personnel.

Our scouting has been atrocious in the last five years. We wasted money on players that played horribly (Conceicao, Biscan, Andric, Seric, Vintra, Nilsson) or who were good players but did not play the part we bought them for (Gonzales, Ivanschitz, Romero, Antonsson, Theodoridis, Mantzios, etc)

The biggest mistake in my book is the fact that we seem to buy players that we know they will be back-ups. A team like Panathinaikos needs to only buy starters and let them fight it out on the pitch to see who is going to start week in and week out. This whole idea of promoting talanted players is a catchy one, but they need to be eased into the team. It breaks my heart when we absolutely need to turn a game in the second half, and all we can manage is to put in Tziolis or Leontiou or Darlas.

I think Livathinos is responsible for scouting and maybe it's time he finds another job.

Our team organization must be really bad. I don't know what's going on in the dressing room but when the team has no cohesion and no heart, Apostolakis and Velic must be held responsible. They are the ones in direct contact with the team and responsible for football operations. I thing we need some spark. Also, why in the universe didn't we have a striker to put in the game at the end? Even if Bake had said he didn't need any, why didn't Livathinos or Apostolakis tell him that this ain't the Sweedish high school league? Why Bake? Why the bad prep this summer? Where was Apostolakis to tell everyone to pick it up?

Moving upwards, the president Mitsou has not helped this team with any kind of leadership. He has been absent ever since Tziger decided to be more visible, and he just seems too nice to be leading such a franchise.

Lastly, some thoughts on the owner. I am not sure what Tziger's qualifications are to be running a top football team, but I will venture a good guess: he doesn't have any. He has no prior experience of running a top venue or with managing personnel.

He manned the team with the wrong personnel constantly and has made the wrong decision two out of three times. Besides the stadium that seems to be moving along, our team is reeling from lack of leadership and bad decisions. I count among them the firing of a winning coach and a winning manager (Schum and Zaets), the unloading of some good players (no I don't think releasing Lyberopoulos, Sapanis, Karagounis, Munch was a mistake) and buying much mediocre talent. Also, this coaching carousel has been pathetic.

Indicative of the amateur nature of our management was the move to determine bonus pay sometime in November. Is it a coinsidence that our players play so badly after the talks about the season bonus with management when Tziger decreed that there will be no bonus for the UEFAcup or anything else. Only bonus for winning the championship. Someone tell Tziger that negative re-enforcement works with eight-year olds, but not with grown me. If you ever had a job you would know that bonus pay is the most contentious issue for all employees and the one issue that can crash morale overnight.

And why didn't they have this settled before the season opened?

As far as I am concerned, we need to find some winners on and off the pitch, but I don't have any confidence it will happen.

Edit: I almost forgot the most important blunder: Championship teams don't choose the games they want to win and the ones they can afford to lose. Championship teams get in the pitch to win no matter what.

sorry to say... if Giannakopoulos Bros. dont take over, save what you wrote cause it'll be the same thing every 3 yrs...

add strikers to this list... Paps is going to get his knee examined

[GS1905]

Besiktas offering 2 mil for Biscan.... sell him NOW

must be joking.. :P :D

[MadBoy13]

i hope... pliagkas, gantzef, siontis kai ta ypoloipa pitsirika na gyrisoun piso..

[bar7]

i hope... pliagkas, gantzef, siontis kai ta ypoloipa pitsirika na gyrisoun piso..

i'm with you dude

[drakos13]

Besiktas offering 2 mil for Biscan.... sell him NOW

if you are going to post rumors, big news

PUT YOUR SOURCE!!!! I suggest mods delete posts of people who are bringing "news" into the forums withoutmentioning a specific source of the information. No offense to you bar7, but a lot of people do this, and its really annoying because I want to beleive it but then again it could have come from sportime or balla.gr and get my hopes up.

and particularly if its for really exciting news like BISCAN LEAVING which would just get my hopes up if it didnt come true. and if 2 million? Im sure Besiktas is paying in old Turkish Liras......must be because thats the greatest deal in football----for PAO :LOL:

Pliagkas, Gantsef, Siontis.......come on guys theyre not going to make the difference. They are nowhere near ready to play on the PAO first team, they need a lot of time to develop, Siontis/Pliagkas a lot more than Gantsev.

[MadBoy13]

i'm with you dude

tzigger is not with me tho... :box:

[MadBoy13]

kleberson from besiktas, salva from malaga

[cyberfish]

Salva admits Panathinaikos is interested, but he prefers to stay in Spain:

http://www.eurosport.com/football/la-liga/...to1037768.shtml

[bar7]

if you are going to post rumors, big news

PUT YOUR SOURCE!!!! I suggest mods delete posts of people who are bringing "news" into the forums withoutmentioning a specific source of the information. No offense to you bar7, but a lot of people do this, and its really annoying because I want to beleive it but then again it could have come from sportime or balla.gr and get my hopes up.

and particularly if its for really exciting news like BISCAN LEAVING which would just get my hopes up if it didnt come true. and if 2 million? Im sure Besiktas is paying in old Turkish Liras......must be because thats the greatest deal in football----for PAO :LOL:

Pliagkas, Gantsef, Siontis.......come on guys theyre not going to make the difference. They are nowhere near ready to play on the PAO first team, they need a lot of time to develop, Siontis/Pliagkas a lot more than Gantsev.

i know i posted this a week ago Drakos & you questioned me again... Go to Sportaction today & read about the interest that Besiktas has for Biscan....

[Tsoglani]

[pao123]

we go back to the academies but for what purpose...we only have one player on our squad right now from the academies and its darlas and he has been poor this season so far..i hope players like gantsev and pliagkas come back to us and we develop them into first team footballers instead of just letting them rot in the B Ethniki

[pao123]

i dunno about this kleberson interest..sounds like it might turn out to be another flavio..i have heard hes been doing pretty well for besikstas though...

isnt salva 31?? whats his goal record..and isnt malaga in the second divsion?