Australia - Greece

[Ziaka]

This is the official thread for the upcoming game. Don't let it get out of hand with political discussions or it will be closed. This is strictly about the game.

Also any discussion about pre and post game parties should be posted here:

http://clubs.phantis.com/sports/index.php?...?showtopic=8724

For those outside of Australia the game times are:

12:30 GR, 10:30 BST, 09:30 GMT, 05:30 EDT, 04:30 CDT, 02:30 PDT

Apparently Eurosport UK will show the game live in United Kingdom.

[Athens4]

ziaka, an einai wpa ellada 12.30 tote tha einai 10.30 afou exei 2 wpes diafora h ellada me tin agglia...

[Ziaka]

paok4, actually 12:30 GR is 10:30 London (UK) time, but it is also 09:30 GMT (UTC). Apparently there is one hour difference between GMT and London time in the Summer.

[Ziaka]

Also it looks like Eurosport UK will show the game live.

[plato-ny]

The Australian Football Federation has just made a rule that Greek fans will be banned from displaying any Greek banners or flags other than the Greek national flag.

This decision was as a result of militant FYROMians lobbying the FFA that Greeks would be politicising the game. As a result, the FFA has bowed to their pressure and issued a decree that the Star of Vergina, Byzantine, Pontian etc flags are banned, with only the national flags being allowed.

When Australia played Turkey in Australia 2 years ago, the Turks displayed Turkish Cypriot flags and other massive banners with no objection by the FFA. This current decision has been made exclusively for this game, and is discriminatory against Greek Australians, who wish to support their team by displaying various Greek symbols (as they would anywhere else in the world).

I along with many others have already written to the FFA urging them to reconsider their racist and contradictory position in relation to Greeks being given the right to display national symbols.

Please find below the email address for the contact person at the FFA, please take the time to register your disgust at their position. Please be polite but firm in what you all have to say.

[email protected]

http://www.humanrights.gov.au/complaints_i...form/index.html

[Akritis_1944]

This is wrong and undemocratic.

The Turks were allowed to display their nationalistic propaganda without question when they toured Australia.

FYROMians are hell bent on distorting and revising history and an apathetic world will allow them. The Greek government has to make this their number one foreign policy issue!

They have to crush all this nonsense from this hostile little nation as their migrant populations namely in Australia and Canada, are bombarding ignorant governments (every nation on earth it seems) in accpeting that they, and they alone are the true descendants of Ancient Greek state of Macedonia.

Anyway, back to the FFA decision to ban non Greek flags....what are they going to do, full body searches?

I'm not going to the game but I call on all Greeks to take everything that is apparently banned (not flares/knives/etc).

[Athens4]

We are not there to see banners, we are there to see football, however this could be seen as extreme

[DUDE]

The Australian Football Federation has just made a rule that Greek fans will be banned from displaying any Greek banners or flags other than the Greek national flag.

This decision was as a result of militant FYROMians lobbying the FFA that Greeks would be politicising the game. As a result, the FFA has bowed to their pressure and issued a decree that the Star of Vergina, Byzantine, Pontian etc flags are banned, with only the national flags being allowed.

When Australia played Turkey in Australia 2 years ago, the Turks displayed Turkish Cypriot flags and other massive banners with no objection by the FFA. This current decision has been made exclusively for this game, and is discriminatory against Greek Australians, who wish to support their team by displaying various Greek symbols (as they would anywhere else in the world).

I along with many others have already written to the FFA urging them to reconsider their racist and contradictory position in relation to Greeks being given the right to display national symbols.

Please find below the email address for the contact person at the FFA, please take the time to register your disgust at their position. Please be polite but firm in what you all have to say.

[email protected]

http://www.humanrights.gov.au/complaints_i...form/index.html

Koita re ta mounia! Bravo Plato-NY for taking action!

[DUDE]

FYROMians are hell bent on distorting and revising history and an apathetic world will allow them. The Greek government has to make this their number one foreign policy issue!

File I appreciate your concern but lets not get carried away. <_< The Greek government isn't doing enough in its support for Cyprus, that should be the number 1 issue. Although this should rank highly too. But what do you expect when the two main political parties in Greece wouldnt know a patriot if he fell in their lap. Corrupt, apathetic bastards!

[Apollo]

The Australian Football Federation has just made a rule that Greek fans will be banned from displaying any Greek banners or flags other than the Greek national flag.

This decision was as a result of militant FYROMians lobbying the FFA that Greeks would be politicising the game. As a result, the FFA has bowed to their pressure and issued a decree that the Star of Vergina, Byzantine, Pontian etc flags are banned, with only the national flags being allowed.

When Australia played Turkey in Australia 2 years ago, the Turks displayed Turkish Cypriot flags and other massive banners with no objection by the FFA. This current decision has been made exclusively for this game, and is discriminatory against Greek Australians, who wish to support their team by displaying various Greek symbols (as they would anywhere else in the world).

I along with many others have already written to the FFA urging them to reconsider their racist and contradictory position in relation to Greeks being given the right to display national symbols.

Please find below the email address for the contact person at the FFA, please take the time to register your disgust at their position. Please be polite but firm in what you all have to say.

[email protected]

http://www.humanrights.gov.au/complaints_i...form/index.html

Koita re ta mounia! Bravo Plato-NY for taking action!

Ethnikisti, We both have similar views, but File, what`s the point in displaying banners other than the beautiful Greek flag? The Greek flag alone will do!!!

"Na touse vgalee ta matia". If they are as they claim to be true descendants of Ancient Greek state of Macedonia, they should speek, as Hesiod said, that Makedones spoke the Aolic dialect of the Greek language. Do they speak it today,

like the Pontians speak their dialect of the Greek language today? No they don't!

But overall, I agree with you that the Greek state must forcefully defend its national symbols and others must stop stealing, adapting, and claim them as their own. As for the game, the Australian-Greek fans must enjoy the game and also wish the Australian national team the best of luck! Some of that Greek luck should hopefully rub off on them. All the best to Australia in the World Cup!!!

Best regards, Apollo

[DUDE]

Ethnikisti,  We both have similar views, but File, what`s the point in displaying  banners other than the beautiful Greek flag? The Greek flag alone will do!!! 

I could understand if they banned offensive banners but what they've done is ridiculous. So if someone wants to take the Coat of Arms (which is like the England flag but blue and white) and Cyprus is in the middle, they cant? How about the Alexander the Great symbol (the Sun), or the Dikefalo aeto? Its ridiculous, no on other nation would be forced to do this. Its not the point of taking anyother flag, whenver I go to a game (whether national or club) the only flag I take is the Greek so its not like I'd have to change my habits but this is yet more political persecution.

As for the game, the Australian-Greek fans must enjoy the game and also wish the Australian national team the best of luck! Some of that Greek luck should hopefully rub off on them. All the best to Australia in the World Cup!!!

Ela re file, the only luck I'll wish them is: I hope they go out to three deflections!!! :la: :gr: :gr:

[Tsalgik]

O kathenas apofasizei sto "spiti" tou kai sto "magazi" tou na kanei oti thelei.Tora to na epoikinonisoume emeis me atoma asheta me tin katastasi de pistevo oti tha lysei tipota kai oute pistevo oti tha katalavoun giati pragma milame.Pantos se ayto pou den tha afisoun alla symvola ftaine oi Ellines tis Australias kai kanenas allos.To elliniko kratos de mporei oute na kanei oute na pei tipota se kati pou den afora tin dikaiodosia tou.Eprepe oi Ellines ekei na merimnisoun pou pistevo an kai de xero oti einai perissoterpoi apo tous skopianous.TO mono pou eyhomai stin Australia einai na faei treis pentares sto mundial kai na gyrisoun spiti

[Tsalgik]

Oso gia to match mia isopalia tha einai kali figoura kai gia tis dyo omades.Leo gia ena 2-2

[DUDE]

Also it looks like Eurosport UK will show the game live.

Is this a certainty?

[Ziaka]

It's reported that Eurosport UK and Eurosport Germany are scheduled to show the game.

[plato-ny]

Here is an actual letter written by Chris Vlahogiannis, President Hellas Fan Club Melbourne And Australia, to the FFA, regarding the ban:

Hi Nick, Despina and Stuart,

I have spoken with all the members regarding the meeting we had on the 26/4/06 and I explained to them everything that has been said at the meeting. I am speaking on behalf the Hellas Fan Club and the Greek Community in Melbourne (affiliated with us). There has been a massive uproar with issue 10. MCG Conditions of Entry & Prohibited Items.

Every member and the whole Greek Community is upset with the Football Federation Australia Spectator Code Of Behavior. In particular section (f) not, and must not attempt to, bring into the venue national or political flags or emblems (except for the recognised national flag of each competing team) or offensive or inappropriate banners, whether written in English or a foreign language.

The reason the whole Greek community is upset is many people want to bring a flag of the Star Of Vergina which is the official flag of Macedonia, the Northern State of Greece. The Greek emblem in question represents Alexander the Greats Empire.This is the oldest Greek symbol in our history along with the "Greek Key" Nowhere in the world has the Greek Team played an international with such emblems missing. Please dont forget that out of a population of just under 1,000,000 greeks in Australia, the highest amount of Greeks migrating and living in Australia are from the Macedonian region with a total of 38%. I, Myself am from Macedonian heritage and I feel insulted that I cannot bring the flag which my fore-father and King Of Greece Alexander The Great bore on his shield.

Also many Hellenes (Greeks) of Cypriot origin would love to bring there Cypriot flags, The Cypriot community feels insulted that at a previous FFA game which was Australia vs Turkey, the Turkish supporters had the illegal Turkish Republic Of Cyprus flag in display for most of the match. This insulted the Cypriots but they didnt complain and act in barbaric manners like some of the FYROM and Turkish Community have with the following game scheduled on May 25th between Australia and Greece. Cypriots are the most die-hard greeks and there was never a problem when Marcos Baghdatis was playing at the Australian Open with the Cypriot, Greek and Macedonian flags present at his matches.

The last flag which many hellenes would want to bring is the flag of Byzantine, the yellow background flag with the double headed eagle representing the Orthodox Church Of Greece. Many Hellenes want to bring this flag as it is the Greek flag which was prior to the new Greek flag we have now. This flag represents hellenism in the Byzantine Empire, one of the greatest achievements of Greece. It also represents the flag of Costantinoupoli (Present day name is Istanbul) which was the original Capital City Of Greece. It would be a shame that the large presence of Hellenes from Turkey (expecially the pontians) would not be allowed to bring this flag which represents them.

I will ask a question that I didnt have the time to ask at the meeting, if there is a flag of the boxing kangaroo or a Eureka Flag will they be confiscated?? I know for a fact many fans who will be supporting Australia are bringing the Eureka Flag and the Boxing Kangaroo Flag and it would be a in-justice and a discrimination to the Greek Community with there flags.

Please FFA re-consider this dis-respectful act within the Spectator Code Of Behaviour.

Another Issue that was raised at our open-meeting was the Issue of the Giant 8x12m Hellas Fan Club T-shirt which wont be permitted at the game to to sponsor reasons. This t-shirt will be over just the Hellas Fan Club section (the 300 seats) and will not obstruct anyone's viewing and enjoyment of entertainment. I find it "weird" that we will be allowed to have banners with our clubs name (Hellas Fan Club) showing around the arena and we cannot have a giant t-shirt with the name of our club because of sponsor reasons. This is a game of football at the end of the day, not lawn bowls and for myself and many others this is un-heard of in the football world. Please re-consider this offer as Im sure this will not hurt anyone in this game.....but make sure this game recieves more exposure from around the world. Dont forget our website recieves 50,000 Hits a day and we will do the best we can to promote this game for the enjoyment of everyone.

Please take into consideration what I have to say and hopefully together we can work something out for the benefit and enjoyment of both of us.

Thank You Stu, Nick and Despina

Chris Vlahogiannis

President

Hellas Fan Club Melbourne And Australia

[Spears]

Bravo Chris well written!

[plato-ny]

The Australian (Greek) Macedonian Advisory Council of Melbourne sent a letter as well...

Dear Honorary Premier,

I along with many members of Melbourne's large Greek Community, wish to bring to your attention a highlight discriminatory decision made by the Australian FFA, which is exclusively targeted at Greek Australians.

The FFA has issued a directive that Greeks Australians will not be allowed to bring to the upcoming soccer international, any flags or banners other than the national flags of the competing countries.As a result, Greek Australians have been denied the opportunity to display other national banners depicting their Byzantine, Pontian, Cretan, Macedonian, Cypriot or Spartan heritage (to name a few). This is the equivalent of denying Australian supporters the opportunity to wear the Green and Gold, or display the boxing kangaroo.

This directive from the FFA, has exclusively been put in place for this game, and is without precedent from what I am aware of, anywhere in the world. In fact Uruguay, Turkey and Japan have all played internationals in Australia over the last few years, and all supporters of these countries displayed national banners that were not restricted to their official national flag, therefore we do not see how the situation should differ for Greek Australians.

There has been a flood of complaints to the FFA, however we feel that it is also prudent that your office be made aware of this discriminatory decision. We as proud Australian's of Greek heritage will not stand for this muzzling of our support for both teams, as it is a clear violation of our freedom of _expression in displaying our Greek heritage.

I dearly hope that your office seriously consider the matter as the matter is being given big publicity in the local Greek media and contacts have been made with officials in Greece expressing our outrage.

Enclosed below are contact details for the FFA, as well as their recently drafted Code of Conduct.

----------------------

FOOTBALL FEDERATION AUSTRALIA

SPECTATOR CODE OF BEHAVIOUR

It is important that all spectators and participants at a National Team match are able to enjoy that

match in a safe and comfortable environment. Accordingly, each person present at a National

Team match must:

(a) respect the decisions of Match Officials;

( respect the rights, dignity and worth of every person regardless of their race, colour,

religion, language, politics, national or ethnic origin;

[plato-ny]

Here's more:

Put this in the parking lot:

[plato-ny]

The Australian Football Federation has just made a rule that Greek fans will be banned from displaying any Greek banners or flags other than the Greek national flag.

This decision was as a result of militant FYROMians lobbying the FFA that Greeks would be politicising the game. As a result, the FFA has bowed to their pressure and issued a decree that the Star of Vergina, Byzantine, Pontian etc flags are banned, with only the national flags being allowed.

When Australia played Turkey in Australia 2 years ago, the Turks displayed Turkish Cypriot flags and other massive banners with no objection by the FFA. This current decision has been made exclusively for this game, and is discriminatory against Greek Australians, who wish to support their team by displaying various Greek symbols (as they would anywhere else in the world).

I along with many others have already written to the FFA urging them to reconsider their racist and contradictory position in relation to Greeks being given the right to display national symbols.

Please find below the email address for the contact person at the FFA, please take the time to register your disgust at their position. Please be polite but firm in what you all have to say.

[email protected]

http://www.humanrights.gov.au/complaints_i...form/index.html

Koita re ta mounia! Bravo Plato-NY for taking action!

I found that in another forum but I'm spreading it to the other forums...

[HELLAS-KYPROS-ENWSIS]

http://www.voiceofgreece.gr/Omogeneia_Main...s.asp?ID=225903

MPEITE STO PARAPANW site GIA NA DEITE TI "NOYMERA" EINAI OI AYSTRALOI!!!

A RE ELLADARA BALE TOYS 3-4 GOAL NA MAS 8YMOYNTAI GIA PANTA......

[Tsalgik]

Den ithela na thixo kanenam etsi?Kai apo oti katalava,diladi apo ayta pou grapsate,oi Ellinares prospathisan.Ante apo allo kratos to perimena alla apo tous Australous? :angry: :angry: :angry:

[plato-ny]

This is the Australian FFA response:

Thank you for your enquiry concerning arrangements for the forthcoming Australia versus Greece football international in Melbourne.

In the two years since the new board and management took over the direction of Football in Australia, I hope you will agree that significant progress has been made in repositioning Football from what was a marginalized sport to one which is taking its rightful place in the the Australian sports landscape. At every level of the game now, Football is being characterized by its ability to bring people together, rather than driving them apart. Australia’s win in November was a great example, as has been the A-League, where supporters of all sorts of backgrounds and heritage have come together to support their local A-League club.

One element of this change has been a policy, designed to support the unifying spirit of the game, which has sought to prevent politically or culturally emotive flags or banners being brought into matches. This policy has applied at A-League and international matches, and will be applied at the Australia v Greece match, as well as future internationals and the Hyundai A-League going forward.

FFA understands that many diverse cultural elements often wish to use Football – in Australia and overseas – as a platform to express their background and historical heritage. It is understandable and appropriate for people to be proud of their heritage. However, we believe that given the direction in which Football has successfully been being taken in more recent times, it is vitally important for the continuing repositioning of the Game not to compromise the policy related to excluding flags other than the recognized national flag of each competing country, and politically or culturally emotive banners, from match venues. The only flags that are permitted for national team matches are the flags that the teams have chosen to play under and will be the ones held up in front of the teams during the playing of their national anthem. This policy has been discussed in detail with the Hellenic Football Federation, and the HFF is fully supportive of the FFA position.

We understand that this may be disappointing for some fans, but we would ask them to respect the broader rationale for the policy, in the context of the good of the Game and the continuing revitalization of Football in this country. We would also remind fans who are unwilling to respect this policy, that it will be applied strictly at the forthcoming international in Melbourne (as it will be elsewhere in the future). FFA’s usual security measures will be implemented, including checks on 100% of bags being brought into the MCG, the use of surveillance cameras and specific measures intended to prevent dangerous or antisocial behaviour, such as bringing prohibited items into the venue.

The FFA and the Football fans of Australia are working hard together to build a safe enjoyable, family-friendly atmosphere and reputation for the new Football. This has involved many compromises and difficult adjustments, which have been made by all parties with the best interests of the Game at heart. And those compromises appear to be bearing fruit! We look forward to your support, and to you playing your part in creating a safe, enjoyable, family-friendly atmosphere for all supporters at the MCG on May 25th, and in doing so, to join in building a successful future for Football in Australia.

Thanking you in advance for your support.

Regards

Football Federation Australia

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I got this from another forum:

I have attempted to confirm the FFA's claim that the Hellenic Football Federation aggreed to ban the flag of Cyprus and Greek flags (as I made clear earlier today), by telephone with the Greek and Cypriot Embassy. As expected, they were shocked and assured me this claim was most probably untrue.

Our embassies were very helpful, and I have been put in contact with a Greek Representitive who (I can confirm) would like to be advised about this situation, and hear our objections in person.

Further, both embassies I contacted knew nothing about this incident, and assured me they had no prior knowledge of Turkish or R.Macedonian lobby groups into OUR GAME, nor the FFA's decision against Greek supporters at all.

Given that the FFA is no longer prepared to liase with us directly, I am asking all GREEKS UNITED to email me with COMPLAINT letters to:

[email protected]

It is extremely important that ALL GREEKS WRITE. Get your friends together, tell your relatives and even thia Thimitra! Voice your opinion the second you finish reading this post! Any letters you may have sent to the FFA, forward them to me. I need as many as I can get to build a strong case BY THIS FRIDAY!

I will be delivering them personally.

[email protected]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I got this from the same forum as well:

A lady from the Human rights commission just called me regarding the complaint I issued

she spoke to me for around 30 mins I'l cut it down in point for for everyone.

Its important to mention that she told me she has received a number of complaints...so people...if we continue...and we do it properly...we can make a difference.

* She spoke directly to the FFA who said they consulted with various groups including the Greek community regarding these rules

*The rules were in place for both the Uruguay game and the Turkey game

*She asked about the Macedonian flag, The Byzantine flag, various regional flags ect and was told they will not be allowed, as they are deemed to be political/religious.

*She was advised that certain banners will be allowed if they are not offensive

*The Boxing kangaroo is a "generic" symbol for Australians and has no political issue attached to it..so it will be allowed.

*Australian state flags, and the Eureka flag are not allowed.

She will contact the FFA on my behalf on the following issues..

* Turkey fans allowed to have TC flags.

* The fact that these restrictions do not seem to be in place in any other sport.EG Cricket - where fans regularly wave NSW flags because half the team is from NSW

* The macedonian flag is not a political flag nor is it displayed for political reasons. It is the Symbol of Alexander the great and is also the state flag of macedonia..a region where many immigrants came from..and many current players are from

* I advised her I am taking a banner with the Greek emblem and "Molon Labe" on it...she will confirm 100% if this will be allowed..and if it is I will be provided with a number to call on the spot if it is rejected by security.

* The Greek community in general feels that these laws are draconian and were made without the FFA attempting to understand what they represent.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

[plato-ny]

Here's what I wrote to [email protected]

Dear FFA,

Regarding your decision on the banning of Greek banners and flags from the upcoming May25th game, I feel that yo are using the Greek soccer fans of Australia as Guinea Pigs. How convenient that you decide to implement this "policy" right before Greece plays its historic friendly with Australia. You are creating more problems rather than solving them.

This policy that you established is a "test" (a reference to my "guinea pigs" line above) to see how it works. What if after you ban the Greeks of Australia from posting banners and flags that you decide that it was a bad idea and you decide to return to the original policy? Does that mean that other countries can post any kind of banners they please whereas the Greeks of Australia were not allowed to?This ban will actually anger the Greeks of Australia and cause more problems in and out of the stadium more than you realize.

Simply put, the Star of Vergina is an ancient reference to the ancient Greek land of Macedonia and it is used as a flag for the modern Greek northern province of Macedonia. It is not a Nazi symbol nor a symbol that would offend anyone. The FYROMians borrow this symbol as their "flag" even though it isn't OFFICIALLY theirs. The UN said they couldn't use the original Star of Vergina as their flag for their country.

There are other flags that are used as symbols to describe Greece or parts of Greece historically and geographically. The Cyprus flag is a flag of the country of Cyprus, not a political message. The Byzantine flag (symbol of eastern Byzantine Empire with the ancient Greek city of Constantinople) and the Greek flag of Northern Epirus are other examples. They are not symbols of hatred and violence but rather symbols of Greek ethnic pride. Heck, at the Euro 2004 tournament, such symbols were used for all 6 Greek games. Because there was no ban in that scenario, Greeks openly posted banners and flags and nothing happened.

So, you should reconsider your position. If not, then the problems you think you are preventing will become much worse....

Sincerely,

"Plato-NY"

[Athens4]

Bravo re file, mas kanoun plaka autoi australoi???