Australia - Greece

[REDmagic]

Entaxei eipame i ethniki mas einai kati san oikogeneia,alla de mporo na katalavo ti akrivos perimenete apo aytin.Dikaiologimeni i gkrinia gia kako podosfairo alla ohi gia ta ypoloipa.

Ti eprepe na kanoun?Mipos eprepe na tragoudisoun kai sto telos?Den pavoun na einai epaggelmaties paiktes kai ohi sympatriotes apo to horio tis katagogis sas.

Ohi san ton allon stin Germania to proigoumeno kalokairi pou fonaze:

"Re zagoraki,re zagoraki ela do re m#$%! na mas miliseis ela do re m#$%! na ypograpseis kanena aytografo"

Kala de pistevo na kanate kai etsi,egrapsa kati akraio pou thimithika.

Gia pes mou eixes paei sto ghpedo???Ean eixes paei den sou kakofanhke katholou???: :whistle:

Thn omada thn agapame alla ligo sevasmo stous xilliades omogeneis pou ekanan megalo ta3idi na doune thn "BASILLISA THS EURWPHS".....efoson eisai PRWTATHLITRIA EURWPHS prepei na fernese san mia... :o

:gr: Telos pandwn perasmena ksexasmena kai ton Augousto me nikh epi ths Molandias :gr:

[Tsalgik]

[DUDE]

This is the first time I've posted since the game, and I don't mean to take a 'told you so' attitude but:

When Samaras first signed for Man City and was getting goals many here were hailing him as a saviour. I said he was a lazy bum and didnty deserve to wear the jersey and Salpingidi should play ahead of him. I also said that our most promising newcomer was actually Lagos, and a number of posters led by Aek66 were mocking me saying that Salpi is poor & Samaras is class while a major problem was Stelio playing on the left. Well, well, well. What did the game show? Samaras is a lazy m****pano! Everyone is ripping Charisteas but his work rate was high and he was effectively playing up front on his own. Lagos showed promise, and Salpigidi had a great impact. Stelio played on the right, so what? Why Amanatidi wasn't given 90 mins is beyond me also!

However, the main problem is the lack of movement in midfield. A pass is played, and no one moves, this forces the player on the ball, who has no options to launch the ball forward. Possession is constantly lost, kai poutsisame tin! Another major problem is that our defence is 40% of what it used to be. Look at the goal for example. Poor cross wasnt dealt with, then Skoko was left unmarked and they score. Like watching a school match. Turkey, Norway, and Hungary are also in terrible form so all is not lost, but something drastic has to be done.

My team against England would be:

Nikopolidis, Seitaridis, Dellas, Kapsis, Fyssas, Lagos, Basinas, Amanatidis, Giannakopoulos, Salpingidis, Liberopoulos.

In the second half:

Tavlaridis for Kapsis,

Samaras for Liberopoulos,

Katsouranis for Basinas,

Sifakis for Nikopolidis.

This line up would combine the familiar (defence) with the experimental (youthful attack).

[aekrossoponti]

This is the first time I've posted since the game, and I don't mean to take a 'told you so' attitude but:

My team against England would be:

Nikopolidis, Seitaridis, Dellas, Kapsis, Fyssas, Lagos, Basinas, Amanatidis, Giannakopoulos, Salpingidis, Liberopoulos.

In the second half:

Tavlaridis for Kapsis,

Samaras for Liberopoulos,

Katsouranis for Basinas,

Sifakis for Nikopolidis.

This line up would combine the familiar (defence) with the experimental (youthful attack).

@ethnikistis:

you can t take a told you so stand even if you wanted because you were making fun of the aussie team that outplayed greece 100%.

as for samaras, aek66 pointed out, he was used in a wrong position. i think his example of figo/pauleta was convincing. fact is samaras is one of the most promising strikers we have. yes salpi is great too but given the whole physical attributes i see more potential in samaras. both at the moment are good players but no offensive mpams. lets not forget papadopoulos is probably an even better player than salpigidis and has done little on the big stage.

lets not be too harsh on stelios. he was the only greek player who actually played all season and had a great season with bolton. he had a bad game..so?

as for amantidis... great character and good player. i agree he needs a chance but the only position for him or samaras in our current system would be INSTEAD of charisteas. something otto will never allow.

you are right the main problem is the midfield..thats why otto uses 4-3-3. to be honest except from lagos who is a midfielder not a striker, i don t see many alternatives to provide the offensive spark there.

your formation is interesting. i hav doubts about kapsis who had a horrible season and is old. although in the nt jersey he usually did o.k...but why use him when we have antzas, kiriakos, tavlaridis (who you never rated highly in your posts), alexopoulos, moras, goumas and maybe even torosidis, avraam papadopoulos to fill the slot?

what formation do you want to play? 4-4-2 or 4-3-3? amanatidis and lympe are similar in style. there i would prefer amanatidis because he is younger and quicker.

as for the other teams (turkey, hungary, norway) being horrible..i am not sure. the difference is these teams CAN and WILL score. the way we play we could have ronaldo up front but won t get a goal "me tipota" against mediocre or better opposition.

[DUDE]

.

you can t take a told you so stand even if you wanted because you were making fun of the aussie team that outplayed greece 100%. as for samaras, aek66 pointed out, he was used in a wrong position. i think his example of figo/pauleta was convincing. fact is samaras is one of the most promising strikers we have. yes salpi is great too but given the whole physical attributes i see more potential in samaras. both at the moment are good players but no offensive mpams. lets not forget papadopoulos is probably an even better player than salpigidis and has done little on the big stage.

The 'told you so' is regards to picking Samaras over Salpi. There were sarcastic flying around but when it came down to it Samaras was non-existent and Salp fought for everyball. As for Samaras being played out of position, that's rubbish. He wasnt played on the left, he was played up front. He likes to drift though, he does it for City too. The problem is, if you are going to drift your movement and positioning has to be top knotch and you have to be able to either run at players or pick out brilliant through-balls, neither of which Samaras is capable of doing at a good level. The only other way to get by is to be a Reyes type player, working hard and not losing possession. Samaras doesnt do this either. He loses the ball all the time and covers about as much ground on the pitch as his manager! He is simply not ready or good enough for international football. Charisteas, Salpi, Liberopoulos, Amanatidis, and possibly Mantzios and Papadopoulos should all be ahead of him in the pecking order at the moment.

lets not be too harsh on stelios. he was the only greek player who actually played all season and had a great season with bolton. he had a bad game..so?

I'm not criticising him, I'm merely making the point that Aek66, and possibly you too if I'm not mistaken criticised Otto, saying that a major reason we dont get goals is because Stelios plays on the left not the right, i.e. Otto has to go etc. Well, Stelio was on the right and what difference did it make???

as for amantidis... great character and good player. i agree he needs a chance but the only position for him or samaras in our current system would be INSTEAD of charisteas. something otto will never allow.

I disagree. Neither Samaras, nor Amanatidis are centre-forwards, they drift alot. You could never play them together up front together, whereas Charisteas is a centre-forward. Charisteas isn't a great striker, his movement is poor, his finishing hardly clinical but his work-rate is high. Imagine not even having that! The only two players you can replace him with is Salp or Papa, because of their work-rate. The reason Otto doesnt however is because of Charisteas' proven arial ability, which is an outlet because of the midfields lack of movement and the necessity to play long-balls.

your formation is interesting. i hav doubts about kapsis who had a horrible season and is old. although in the nt jersey he usually did o.k...but why use him when we have antzas, kiriakos, tavlaridis (who you never rated highly in your posts), alexopoulos, moras, goumas and maybe even torosidis, avraam papadopoulos to fill the slot?

Kapsis is proven at NT level. He was exceptional against Koller, Shevchenko, Nihat, Pauleta, Tommason, etc. As a man-marker he is hard-working and reliable. Kyriakos is unreliable to say the least. He was pathetic against Australia and nearly gave away a penalty. Antzas I like, but prefer him in centre-mid, he should be given a chance in the NT. Tavlaridis is good but makes some BIG mistakes, he just isn't ready. Alexopoulos, Moras, Avraam P, and Torosidis... <_< Are you being serious???? We'd get raped! Goumas is a good defender but I'd go for Kapsis on experience in the NT.

what formation do you want to play? 4-4-2 or 4-3-3? amanatidis and lympe are similar in style. there i would prefer amanatidis because he is younger and quicker

It would be a 4-3-1-2. Width (or natrural wingers is something lack) in which case, instead of trying to get width from players that just cant do it its worth trying to solidify the midfield by flooding it and employing quick inter-changing passing (like PAO used to play some years ago). Just for the record though the team I named would not be my first 11 for the qualifiers, just something different to try against England to see how it goes.

as for the other teams (turkey, hungary, norway) being horrible..i am not sure. the difference is these teams CAN and WILL score. the way we play we could have ronaldo up front but won t get a goal "me tipota" against mediocre or better opposition.

I agree file.

[Clover22]

I find it a bit weird that there is this conflict over Samaras. You can't judge the guys playing ability by that one horrible game in Australia. I've seen him play a bunch of times with Manchester this past season and its obvious to me the guy is good and is coming up. Why is this so complicated? Yeah there are things he needs to work on, SO? Most players fully develop their talents when they reach their mid twenties, and he's not there yet. He can play with the NT, why the hell not?

[DUDE]

i never said samara is a savior. of course, let's not let facts get in the way of your annoying vendettas.

:huh: Get over yourself dude!

1) check back - i said samara is currently the best/most talented striker that greece has...despite samara only being 20 at the time and is the most promising young greek talent in generations. i firmly believed, and still do, that samara should be an automatic in otto's 11. nowhere do i state that samara would be a savior or have a goal to international cap ratio of 1:1.

So you never used the word 'saviour', I never claimed you did, you were building him up though as were others, leading to the creation of a board that read 'Samaras is not the resurection'. You did imply that he was a bigger talent than Machlas though. :whistle: As for being an automatic selection... he has done nothing at the top level, even sections of City fans are questioning the purchase of him.

2) salpigidi was and still is nothing to note of when it comes to international football. salpigidi can't control a soft pass, has no dribbling repertoire and is no threat to score anything with his head, let alone being a poor finisher. if speed impresses you so much, you must rate zambia and angola. since i carry no vendettas, i do hope salpigidi becomes a world class forward...but i think paok's dusty and bumpy training pitches and other negative factors of greek football (poor coaches, lax training regimens and lack of professionalism) will hold back any type of progress salpigidi is capable of.

Absolutely ridiculous. I've never claimed he is or will be world class, but he at the moment, he is a better option than Samaras. He's also top Greek scorer in the Alpha Ethniki, not to mention his goals in the UEFA Cup so his finishing isn't that bad.

3) a number of posters led by aek66 were mocking you? first off, lose the paranoia.  after that, realize that i don't lead anyone. there are alot of smart football posters here that only see what i see and don't see what you see. you still haven't learned to respect opposite opinions that don't agree with your's.  a few posters also saw the same denmark x greece match that i saw..a poor greece and a non-threatening salpigidi with some phantom half-volley that stunned the danish gallery that never occured. you can get angry at me, but no need to insult others too.

I can't respect others' opinions??? Paok04 believes that Zagoraki is finished, I think he's central to the squad, dont have any problems with him. Drakos frequently airs football ideas I dont agree with, I still respect his veiws. etc. Also, I havent insulted others re: Salpi. If anything you were and are being sarcastic re: my opinions on Salpi and why? Because you still have a hard on over the political discussions on Bakoyianni and the Serbia conflict, get over it dude. Fact is in the first test case where Samaras could be compared to Salpi since the discussions Salpi was superior, 1 - 0 to the PAOK boy.

as far as your line-up. i find it a bit funny that you call samara a lazy, mouvopavo...yet, you have lymberopoulo in your 11...who is by far one of the laziest and weakest players that have ever worn a greece kit.

Lymberopoulo's movement, finishing, passing, creativity and general ability on the ball is better than Samaras'.

[DUDE]

are samaras' talents and strengths as a footballer more similar to toni-van nistelrooy-f.torres-crouch-pauleta? or, are they more similar to del piero-robben-joaquin-cole-figo?

:LOL: Samaras is NOT a centre-forward! He is nothing like any of the players you mentioned above! :LOL: P.S. there's no such thing as a left winger in a 4-3-3 (which just for the record is different from a 4-5-1). Samaras played as a left-sided striker, unfortunately he drifts and is ineffective because his work-rate is so low and when he is on the ball he's wasteful and his play is bland.

[aek21]

Lybe has no doubt a great vision for goal, very creative aswell. Unfortunately he lacks tons of consistency, had he been a consistent player he'd be playing for some of the best teams in europe. Greece like mentioned before doesn't play with wingers, Charisteas plays right forward and Samaras played left forward. They tend to go wide because that's how Greece plays, it spreads the opponents defence so its not as cluttered up. If they played right in the middle we would not be progressing forward and would get stuck. Unfortunately, neither have the necessary skills to hold the ball, Samaras was outplayed in almost every 50/50 situation. Sometimes he was pitted into a 75/25, where 2 aussie defenders got in his way. This is not new and this is a problem for our strikers, they need to be more aggressive, use their bodies and get involved. You need to win balls, its that basic. Zagorakis is the only player to date who is consistently winning balls in important areas, but no one wins it up front on long balls. If he's out of the picture Greece is going to be really bad on both ends of the field, as added pressure will be put on the defence and no one will be supplying our front lines. Charisteas used to, but now he is being beaten for every ball. This guy used to fight for the ball, but now he seems too go in half heartedly. Salpiggidis is not a solution to this because he can't win balls in the air as effectively as a taller player. Charisteas needs to step in order to see imporvement in front of goal. He had 2 great chances to score against Australia, one where he was marked by 2 guys got his head to the ball but completely missded the target, should have atleast hit the net. Another near the end with Zagorakis's amazing long ball and that time he was just unlucky not to have gotten his head to the ball. So we can create but we can creat more if our forwards take advantage of their height and body and really breath down the defenders necks. Seitaridis has been sending some nice crosses I've felt he is getting the slack when in fact our forwards aren't getting up to his crosses.

England is playing Jamica right now and winning 4-0 or something, Jamaica are playing actually well but england are just too good at executing their plays they take thir chances well. Jamiac had some chances on goal but it a was one player taking on the english defence. It took 2 seconds for the ball to come from Robinson's goal kick to Lampard's goal. They're fast and very accurate, something Greece should watch out for.

[DUDE]

Hi Aek21, I agree with practically every part of your analysis. But I'll reply to a breakdown to make it easier.

Lybe has no doubt a great vision for goal, very creative aswell.  Unfortunately he lacks tons of consistency, had he been a consistent player he'd be playing for some of the best teams in europe.

I agree. Lyberopoulos is a Bergkamp-type player, not only in terms of style but also consistency. If Bergkamp was Greek wouldn't he feature? All it takes is one-through-ball, one chance, one moment of magic and the game changes with these types of players. Also, we have problems generating chances from open play, with Lybe coming deep and picking out through-balls to forwards with pace such as Salpi or Amanatidis we can exploit teams on the break!

Greece like mentioned before doesn't play with wingers, Charisteas plays right forward and Samaras played left forward.  They tend to go wide because that's how Greece plays, it spreads the opponents defence so its not as cluttered up.  If they played right in the middle we would not be progressing forward and would get stuck.  Unfortunately, neither have the necessary skills to hold the ball, Samaras was outplayed in almost every 50/50 situation.  Sometimes he was pitted into a 75/25, where 2 aussie defenders got in his way.

Precisely!

This is not new and this is a problem for our strikers, they need to be more aggressive, use their bodies and get involved.  You need to win balls, its that basic.  Zagorakis is the only player to date who is consistently winning balls in important areas, but no one wins it up front on long balls.  If he's out of the picture Greece is going to be really bad on both ends of the field, as added pressure will be put on the defence and no one will be supplying our front lines.  Charisteas used to, but now he is being beaten for every ball.  This guy used to fight for the ball, but now he seems too go in half heartedly. Salpiggidis is not a solution to this because he can't win balls in the air as effectively as a taller player.  Charisteas needs to step in order to see imporvement in front of goal. 

This is the best piece of analysis. Since Charisteas' injury he goes into everything as its a training match! Unfortunately, with the current system the only solution is a Charisteas-type player who is willing to fight for every ball and is good in the air. Since Vryzas left and Charisteas' form has dipped there is no solution. However, the only part i disagree with is that we create chances, in reality one long-ball is not a chance. To see an improvement we have to change things.

[aek21]

We've always played with long balls, how did Chari score against Spain. We would have never gotten behind there defence had it not been for a long ball, for large portions of the game they kept us at bay with our only shots coming fom the midfield with Zagorakis leading by example who I thought should have been man of that match, he was brilliant. Same with Australia, they kept us atleast 20 yards out each time and they only times we got through were from crosses and long balls. As for lybe, he can make one great shot and the other 10 times he screws it up. He can open defences, he just isn't doing it as often as he did with pao where he had most his success. Greece does create chances, but not enough. We can't rely on one goal per a game anyways. Greece has always had problems creating a lot of chances, but we've always managed with the few we can create. The fact that weren't even getting atleast that one important goal says it all. Our offence aren't taking their chances well and they're just not playing physical enough. Greece played terrible against Australia, defence we did at times look shaky with Dellas and Anatolakis nearly losing the ball in dangerous areas. Our midfield in the first half was horrendous but it was much better in the second half. But our offence dissapointed me most... Samaras and Charisteas were being beaten in the air by the short aussie defence. Very sad.

[aek21]

Samaras and Charisteas played wide at times, but not as a winger, as forwards. He has to because he has a lot of area to cover, he can't just stay in the middle otherwise the opposing defence would just it around. Our forwards are supposed to be collecting long balls and by playing wide we spread the defence. Simple. Things I didn't like was the fact we had no shots on target and with all our shots coming from the midfield, not our strikers. Also our forwards couldn't win a ball if they're lives depended on it, Lybe is no different from this. 2 feet taller than everybody and can't even get a head to it... thats a joke. Oddly enough one of our shorter forwards is winning them... Salpigidis. But I can't see him being as effective as a stellar Charisteas, he is by far our best striker on his day. If he starts sing his body like he has in the past he can be a major threat for us once again.

[adonis]

this is so pathetic stralians show there true ethnocentrism...

enjoy your short, not deserved world cup experience.

FORCA BRAZIL

FORZA HRVASKA

GO JAPAN

BAGGER OFF AUSTRALIA

:whistle:

[Athens4]

The game was ages ago. Someone close this thread now before it gets out of hand...

[ZGR33K]

PATHETIC AUSTRALIANS?

Quick close the thread before everyone realises how good Australia went in the world cup and were robbed a quarter finals berth.

GO THE SOCCEROOS!!!

Come on Timmy Cahill, Come on Timmy Cahill.

You kick him the ball, He'll put it in the goal, Living in the Cahill Wonderland.

[DUDE]

PATHETIC AUSTRALIANS?

Quick close the thread before everyone realises how good Australia went in the world cup and were robbed a quarter finals berth.

GO THE SOCCEROOS!!!

Come on Timmy Cahill, Come on Timmy Cahill.

You kick him the ball, He'll put it in the goal, Living in the Cahill Wonderland.

Robbed??? Neil obstructed Grosso. Also Materazzi should never have gone so relax, before that you hadnt even had one shot on goal! Not one, and the Italians were playing at a training match pace. When it comes down to it you won one game against an off-form Japan side, and you needed a freak final 6 mins to do it. How well Aus did?? :rolleyes: 1 win, whoppe-do!

[Clover22]

The Italians were by far superior, the better team advances.