Bagievic in PAO

[iliasdim]

I am talking about the team 2 years ago,when they made it to the final...

[almamatter]

Yeah, but for instance Prso now is playing for the Rangers.

Guily is really good but he is injury prone. He is in Barchelona but doesn't play that much. Last season for instanse he was mostly onl the injured list.

[iliasdim]

No matter cause when he was in Monaco he did "papades"...and that is my point,you can't be(always) sure that a good player suits any team.(we know this as well with michalaki.) or if he will be at the same codition...

Anyway,to get back to the point,I like Dusan,I think he is is ideal for building teams from scatch(as I think we are now---) but I can not disagree that others like Deschamps have shown proof of value in much stronger competitions!

To my opinion,though,I would like to go to the end with Malezani,although I have started to lose faith in him,just because changing coach every year has lead us nowhere.

It would be no good to bring a good coach now because it would be almost impossible for him to instantly pass his mentality to the players..these things need time and the worse thing is that he wouldn't have tosi "anoxi" because fans and media would expect results from the beginning as the championship has started so bad for us. Fantazesai na'rxotan o Deschamps kai stin 2i gela na ton bgazame ki auton axristo?But at the end it would be Malezani's(or sbd else's)fault!

The only thing that can change now in the team is getting a psychological vibe rather than tactical...S'auti tin periptwsi kai an o kompos ftasei telika sto xteni kalitera proswrina na baloun ton Fylakouri! :tup: :D

[almamatter]

Look, as far as I am concerned:

-When Malesani came to Greece he said.

1)I see that Pao has already a good team (We had just beaten 1-0 Sevile with Filakouri)

2)They brought me here to bring a new face-system to this team and I think I did.

Quote: After the last game with Ofi and ending up second... <_<

{Pao before malesani had only one back half: Basina. We were palying a simple

4-4-2 System with a diamond in the center with 2 wingers and Gonzales behind

the 2 strikers.}

Malesani's system that never really worked for us had 2 back halfs playing parallel to each other and searing left and right side.

Last season he used Gonzales, Basina. Clearly it didn't work for both as they were used tp play veryticaly with Gonzales up front and Basina covering up waitng further back.

This Season we started with Biscan, Conseisao. It didn't work either. It is clear that Malesain has no intention on changing that, since against Panionios he will place Biscan on the bench and put next to Conseisao either Tziolis or Leondiou.

I personaly think that this is not a solution. If BOTH Biscan and Conseisao at their previus teams Liverpool, Real were able to carry on their duties as the only one back halvs for their teams when they were playing , why at Pao they have to play in the same place that Basinas alone could perefectly handle ?

(These 2 players cost as together 3 mil. Euro per year nad if we offered Basina 1 mil. per year, he would play like a maniac for the team he loved so much.)

This is why I start to think that with Malesani the system, won't change any time soon. I feel that Malesani has made his desision and will stick to it to the end.

Pao as a team using 2 back halvs like this is clearly loosing one winger.

Why ?

Because in a simple 4-4-2 system, with 4 avalable at the center and 2 being our

defensive halfs, we are left with Gonzales who plays behind the strikers and 1 winger whoever that maybe...(Haralabidis, Wooter)

Against Udinese Malesain scrifised 1 striker for the purpose to use 2 wingers (both Wooter, Haralabisi), plaus he used Gonzales as a back hald and the team died offenssively, with poot Togerle being lost somewere in Udinese defense...

Result: NO POTENTIAL.

I ask you this. Name me one great team that uses 2 back halvs anywere in Europe.

None. You know why. Because you are waisting your offensive capabilities.

If you have 2 Lottar Mateus ? Maybe... :whistle:

or if we had 2 Gonzales... :P

So this is why I am fed up. I don't care who is the coach at the moment. I just think that with Malesani we are obviusly going the wrong direction.

Who knows. Solid is usinf the same system at Osfp and it works. BUT we are not Osfp and defenantly our team always played with 2 strikers, while in Osfp they are mostlyy using 1 stiker and it seems to be wrking for them.

[Lalin]

I ask you this. Name me one great team that uses 2 back halvs anywere in Europe.

None. You know why. Because you are waisting your offensive capabilities.

A lot of great teams use two defensive midfielders that can also create.

Chelsea: Lampard and Makelele

Juve: Vieira and Emerson

AC Milan: Pirlo and Gattuso

So far, Flavio and Igor have not been able to perform as to their capabilities and hopefully this will hange for the better. I have my doubts for Flavio, but Igor I think will perform in time.

Patience

[almamatter]

I ask you this. Name me one great team that uses 2 back halvs anywere in Europe.

None. You know why. Because you are waisting your offensive capabilities.

A lot of great teams use two defensive midfielders that can also create.

Chelsea: Lampard and Makelele

Juve: Vieira and Emerson

AC Milan: Pirlo and Gattuso

So far, Flavio and Igor have not been able to perform as to their capabilities and hopefully this will hange for the better. I have my doubts for Flavio, but Igor I think will perform in time.

Patience

Let me ask you this.

Do you think that Lamapard playes prallel to Makelele, or in front of him more likely behind the 2 strikers ? Something that Scholes does in Man. United...

As for milan. Gatouso is more of an all around player. Something like Wooter is at Pao.

+from the right side, besides Pirlo, Cafu runs the whole right side and throughs the leng ball as a winger would.

-Michaelsen and Marich used to do something similar next to Basina as Gatuso for Pirlo, but still Basinas had to cover the whole space in front of the 4 defenders, from which one of the 2 centeral defenders would leave their spot to help him out. In the older days it was Hengrisen. Now later it was Morris.

As for Giuventus, I agree that both Vieira and Emerson are classic back halfs, but they can run to halp in both the offenence and defence a will, while for us both Conseisao and Biscan seem to be unable to achieve.

[adonis]

If anything as the season progresses we shall see more of Biscan than Conceicao in my opinion

his younger, fitter, looks like he will play with more hunger than Flabio (which isnt saying much) and did come off a good season at Liverpool who lets face it were playing in europes elite comp (went all the way) and sit in the top half of

"one of" the best leagues in europe

but i agree to DM's cant play in the same lineup

traditionally for me - i think Biscan with Tziolis backup next to Eki in the middle of the park in a flat four across the middle with players like Seric, Nillson, Bides, Wooter (even though i dont like him), Theodoridis etc on the wings

Conceicao for me has no future at PAO and he shouldnt be in the starting 11 let alone on the salary his on - he is hurting the team playing for himself and thinking himself as a name!!!!!!!

[almamatter]

The question is....

CAN WE GET RID OF BOTH CONSEISAO AND BISCAN ?

Or it is too late...? :la: ?

[CH-Thrylos]

The question is....

CAN WE GET RID OF BOTH CONSEISAO AND BISCAN ?

Or it is too late...? :la: ?

even if your management still has the receipt, i think the 30-days return has expired for both of them. ;)

the earliest you could get rid of them would be in january.

[almamatter]

^^^That would be awesome if we could get rid of them that early...

[rodoj]

I'm not sure Biscan should be written off just yet. He's young and needs time to adjust to the greek game before we make that judgment, but if over time he does not deliver, then drop him like a hot potato. Those who know the player (followed Croatian football had to as my wife is Croatian) say that he is the type of player that goes as the team goes, they play well, so does he; the team stinks, and he is soon to do the same.

Conseisao I know little about since his Real days but it seems we got robbed.

[jcoutavas]

bottom line...

we need to get more greek players come january

[CH-Thrylos]

wouldn't be bad for aek, pao and osfp to bring in some more greek players. but to be honest, i don't see who these teams could get. most of the good greek players who play abroad won't return to greece very soon and the ones in greece would be priced way too high from their team.

there surely are some good talents in greece, but i think that most of them couldn't handle it playing for one of the big teams yet. they simply lack the experience, even at an age of over 20. it would be nice to see our teams consisting out of more than 50% greeks, also young and talented players, but that would make the teams risk a bad season in europe first of all and maybe even a bad result in greece. and unfortunately our managements don't have the @@ to risk something like that.

only pao is trying to do something like that at the moment, but if the bad results continue i don't think that tzigger will stick to it.

[almamatter]

I'm not sure Biscan should be written off just yet. He's young and needs time to adjust to the greek game before we make that judgment, but if over time he does not deliver, then drop him like a hot potato. Those who know the player (followed Croatian football had to as my wife is Croatian) say that he is the type of player that goes as the team goes, they play well, so does he; the team stinks, and he is soon to do the same.

Conseisao I know little about since his Real days but it seems we got robbed.

We in general have a bad experience from Croatian players.

Except from Serich, Galinovich and also this season's Andrich (who seems to have picked up his game from what I could call horrible last season preformances)

we have:

Assanovich, Vlaovich, Sarich, Marich and Biscan. All these 5 players except from Sarich came to the team with the best recomendations and they all greatly dissapointed us.

As for Conseisao: He is too slow. He surley does know his stuff, but he seems to care more about his own well being, instead of the teams succes. He wouldn't do sacrifises like Basians, Karagounis, Goumas etc for the team.

If anything is easy to realise is:

that both Conseisao, Biscan are very slow (No explosiveness of play like ex: the second goal in the friendly against Saragosa that awesome Conseisao move who assisted Gekas),

they go on the ball second,

the don't help the team in offense,

they can't help in the set pieces (Conseisao tried some free kickes and all sucked...),

they don't really comunicate with each other (I mean ex: last season Jiovani and Rivaldo could by themselvs by passing to each other open the opposide defenses and scored marvelus goals. With Biascan and Conseisao you hardly ever see them even pass the damn ball to each other...)

I mean total dissapointment for the money they make.

If we were to use Leondiou and Tzioli for ex. to replace them it would proabably brought much more benefits tot he team.

[XXX-18T]

We in general have a bad experience from Croatian players.

Except from Serich, Galinovich and also this season's Andrich (who seems to have picked up his game from what I could call horrible last season preformances)

we have:

Assanovich, Vlaovich, Sarich, Marich and Biscan. All these 5 players except from Sarich came to the team with the best recomendations and they all greatly dissapointed us.

btw maybe we have luck with Seric cos Seric is Australian ;)

anyways hope Melezani learnt his lesson that Eki is the key to pao scoring goals :tup:

[adonis]

Give Biscan a break - give him time than we can make a better judgement on wat he has to offer - he is his late 20s (27 i think) just came from a big club in one of europes top leagues - im sure slowly he will perform to wat we expect of him...if not very soon against Werder

[adonis]

they can't help in the set pieces (Conseisao tried some free kickes and all sucked...),

bc Basinas was the worlds best set piece taker - asta re, my blood was boiling everytime i saw basinas waddle over to take a corner or freekick - this guy apart from a handful of freekicks in over a decade was the worst - especially last season

and i can name you a few

1) greece euro final corner

2)scored against PAOK off freekick in the championship winning season

3)again freekick he scored against AEK at leoforos when clearly xiotis was in superb form

and thats possibly it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

in fact - against Panionios all our goals came from set pieces two of which Conceicao took (he may even had taken the third not sure)

i dun care who takes set pieces but if its not Basinas than its an improvement!!!

[Panathinaikos_Trifilli]

dont forget the penalty against Portugal, thats technically a set-piece, but he was rubbish at them to, remember two little matches against arsenal?

[almamatter]

bc Basinas was the worlds best set piece taker - asta re, my blood was boiling everytime i saw basinas waddle over to take a corner or freekick - this guy apart from a handful of freekicks in over a decade was the worst - especially last season

and i can name you a few

1) greece euro final corner

2)scored against PAOK off freekick in the championship winning season

3)again freekick he scored against AEK at leoforos when clearly xiotis was in superb form

and thats possibly it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

in fact - against Panionios all our goals came from set pieces two of which Conceicao took (he may even had taken the third not sure)

i dun care who takes set pieces but if its not Basinas than its an improvement!!!

I agree to one degree, because in a team that used to have: Karagouni, Lyberopulo, Kostadinou, Munch, Gonzales, Vlaovich, Soousa, : {All have prooven their ability in their past teams on set pieaces} and I am quite certain I am formgeting a lot, it was only Basinas to take them, but don't you think that had to do with what the the coaching staff wanted ?

And it wasn't 1 coaching staff that gave Basian that order. There were many. Unless it was Vardinogiani's order...

As for Conseisao assisting the first goal. Finaly he did something...in the 4th game of the seaoson against Panionio...

[Clover22]

Interesting posts almamatter! The better coaches create a system according to the type of players they have and their abilities as opposed to coming with your own formation ideas in spite of who you have. I see Malezani has made some changes for the Panionios game so I'm hoping he can make the right adjustments for the Werder game, and work our way up from there both at home and in Europe.