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17 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you agree with Tsipras signing/accepting the new deal?

    • Yes, it was the best option available
      7
    • No, he campaigned against such deal and his referendum was a rejection of such
      3
    • Undecided. Confused. Disgusted.
      3
    • Who the hell knows? Everything in Greece is up to loose interpretation
      4


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The referendum was an exercise in ________________(at the cost of $25-30 million).

 

Tsipras lost in his gamble against the troika while tetering the country at the edge of collapse. So, what's next? What are those things you'd like to see? Which direction should the country trake?

 

 

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I just don't see any pros in sticking with the Euro. Even if Greece had zero debt, it's economy would be better off without an overvalued currency that affects your competitiveness. The sticking poi

The deal that Tsipras "negotiated" will result in a 4th bailout not 100%, not 1,000 % but 1,000,000%. Maybe the IMF may come to the rescue (the irony) and get a big debt restructure. They are talkin

I have to agree with you athinaios.  To be fair, I don't think Tsipras or anyone else predicted how nasty the EU/ECB reaction would be.  When the ECB cut off funding for Greek banks, well, that is a d

Get out of here with the Pro-drachma growth crap.  Seriously.  Enough with this nonsense about the Drachma.  My brain will explode if people continue to believe that we are better off going at it alone with Drachma's.  Please stop.  I don't want to read it again on here.

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Get out of here with the Pro-drachma growth crap.  Seriously.  Enough with this nonsense about the Drachma.  My brain will explode if people continue to believe that we are better off going at it alone with Drachma's.  Please stop.  I don't want to read it again on here.

Can't be worse than losing every revenue generating state asset Greece has left. And for what? A little temporary relief with the Europeans restocking Greek banks so people can access their own money.

Greek people will now suffer worse pensions higher taxes/VAT and the loss of some airports and ports to privateers and some think its a good deal.

All the parking money generated at these airports and rent from restaurants/bars and shops and airline offices and the levies airlines have to pay will now go to the new owners of these airports, the immigration/customs staff will still be paid by the state.

And you know what, next time Greece needs bailout money, and it will, it'll be in exchange for even higher tax hikes and the loss of more assets, which is clever by the EU as it will make it even harder for Greece to exit. 

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Have you guys looked at the proposed Syriza legislation? 

 

This is the point I'm trying to raise here (among others), that Greece needs reforms. Right? OK, we agree, but it's one thing to say yes to reforms and another to be specific. I think that some of the reforms are absolutely needed. Which ones you like and which don't.

 

Another interesting observation is that most of the "good reforms" Greece had to implement came from abroad, some were demanded (like some of these new measures) by outsiders. Don't you think this says something about the political and social culture of the country?

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Gyros are you smarter than the British MPs????? They told Greece to hold its head up....And exit the Euro currency!!! 30 years of PASOK and ND has set us back decades, ans as a result we will beg the Germans for cash every 3 years!!!

 

Dude do you realize the British are snakes.  England are Anti-Greece.  Anything they suggest Greece do, run the other way.

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I tend to agree with gyros about the English which is a first for me agreeing with him.

The English are duplicitous in their dealings with Greece as history has shown. Look at their obstinate position they have taken with the Parthenon Marbles and what Cameron has said about us as a people.

I don't trust them.

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Well there are Nobel winning economists who think a Grexit is better in the long run. So it's not necessarily a crap idea. It's at least worthy of consideration ...

The problem with all this is that agreece should have gotten prepared for a EZ exit. Have the money printed. Have your plans organised. And if all else fails you can get the ball rolling quickly. But, this is Greece we're talking about.

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I'm still undecided on how to answer this question, because I don't know and no one does, to what lengths the Germans will go to make Greece suffer to get the result they want.  The ECB pulling the pin on liquidity was unexpected and changed everything.  It was the nuclear option.  Other potential EU candidates must be jumping up with joy at joining such a nice club.

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Whats next?

The meek handover of valuable Greek assets to the krauts

Total humiliation and subjugation of the Greek people

Thousands more illegals to come to Greece

The Turks to turn the screw, with the Albanians and Skops to follow

What a 6 months its been

 

Turkey and Albania are loving this because if we have grexit, they know we will be extremely weak and vulnerable.  Its sad what all these "promises" have gotten us.  

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Turkey and Albania are too stupid to take advantage. Turkey could have easily caused Greece some serious problems in the Aegean and all Greece would have done is complain. Greece is an old toothless dog that can only bark 3 or 4 times before coughing and eventually going back to sleep. 

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I tend to agree with gyros about the English which is a first for me agreeing with him.

The English are duplicitous in their dealings with Greece as history has shown. Look at their obstinate position they have taken with the Parthenon Marbles and what Cameron has said about us as a people.

I don't trust them.

 

Guys, be realistic. What does it mean a country likes you or doesn't???!!

 

One aspect is that the people of that country have a long-held animosity toward another people. Is is true in case of England, Finland, even Germany?

The other one is the governments of those countries. In that case, there are no friends, just national insterests. OK, there are cases a country may help another on humanitarian grounds, but even this is a rare exception if the helper has nothing to profit from such action; especially when the cost to the helper is considerable.

 

And, to put this whole issue into another perspective, only family helps a member who's a screw up... ;) [how are a family member? either born or adopted]

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I also want to mention that all those Euro leaders who deal/negotiate with Greece have to answer to their own political parties and ultimately to their citizens. Public opinion in Europe (EZ) now is not favorable to Greece. Most measures to help Greece will have to pass through other countries' parliaments.

 

When I asked how would many of you react if Turkey or Fyrom were in Greece's position and you were on the other side of the EZ, I forgot to add Albania....   ;)

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By Paul Krugman,

 

Anger at the demands on Greece, gathered on social media under the hashtag #thisisacoup is gaining traction.

 

Nobel laureate economist, Paul Krugman, has lambasted the summit developments in his column at the New York Times, and thrown his support behind #thisisacoup.

 

Suppose you consider Tsipras an incompetent twerp. Suppose you dearly want to see Syriza out of power. Suppose, even, that you welcome the prospect of pushing those annoying Greeks out of the euro.

 

Even if all of that is true, this Eurogroup list of demands is madness. The trending hashtag ThisIsACoup is exactly right. This goes beyond harsh into pure vindictiveness, complete destruction of national sovereignty, and no hope of relief. It is, presumably, meant to be an offer Greece can?t accept; but even so, it?s a grotesque betrayal of everything the European project was supposed to stand for.

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I'm seriously worried Tsipras is going to cave in to all of the EU's demands.

He has already, but now it's not up to him. There are strong (influencial) voices within the EZ to kick Greece out, because they don't trust Greece would do any reforms and thus they don't want to send any more money to GR. When you're bankrupt it's hard to play "

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Tourism crashed this year because of all this s%$#! recently, record number of cancellations in many areas. It was projected to be up 15% from last year but it's gonna be way down when it's all said and done.

Greece used to have twice the tourism of Turkey, now it's the reverse. It's not only the cheaper currency but also the level of service! The Turkish tourist places along the Aegean are rated higher in satisfaction surveys than their Greek counterparts. 

 

Also, political and economic instability are very harmful to tourism. Egypt can tell you this much. Let's say I have 2 weeks vacation; sure I'm looking for a bargain, but my over all experience matters. I want/demand service. I don't want strikes to prevent me from getting to/fro my destination! You say next year will be better for tourism in Greece? Not if there the austerity and tough measures continue, because they'll produce more strikes and uncertainty.

 

Btw, when I hear you can only take $50/day out of ATMs, but, hey, don't worry, tourists have no problems, I'd stay away from that country if I were a tourist, especially the ones that have money to spend and aren't like the sleeping bag travellers who only have $50 shoved into their socks and don't need ATMs!

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

One source that has very frequent updates on the situation is this: http://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2015/jul/12/greek-debt-crisis-eu-leaders-meeting-cancelled-no-deal-live

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Now if Syriza & Tsipras campaigned against the "mnemonio" (memorandum) and the austerity measures, why doesn't he take the country out of the EZ now? Especially after the humiliation of the last 2 weeks.

SYRIZA wasn't elected by voters to dump the Euro or exit the Euro zone. If he dared do such a thing he and his government would be lynched. His election was to end austerity. On this basis he's worse than ND/PASOK because he said one thing pre-election and capitulated when he needed to remain strong.

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It is part of the DNA of Greeks in positions of power to run away when it gets hot in the kitchen. Tsipras simply showed us that young champagne socialists have the same style of running as seasoned PASOK sprinters. 

 

I always said, one of the biggest miracles on earth is how the Turks did not take back Greece last century.

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Bravo Tsipras.  I never had you on a pedastal, but neither did I have you in the special club of Greek politicians I hold in contempt.  However today, you have completed the requirement for joining the special club.  No balls.  No brains.  To be fair, balls without brains doesn't get you far, but if you're going to try scare the EU, at least have an ace up your sleeve.  Stooge.  Going to be interesting how Syriza do at the next election.

 

Welcome to Greece, Germania Minor, jewel of the Aegean.

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