Relegation battle 2011

[Irlandos]

Four match days before the end, the bottom of the league table looks as follows:

11. Kerkyra -- 30

- . Panionios --30

13. Atromitos --29

14. Asteras --28

15. Larisa --24

16. Panserraikos --20

It seems only a miracle can save Panserraikos but who else do you think / do you want to accompany them?

[athinaios]

Panionios and Asteras

[Irlandos]

I'd rather have Atromitos go down rather than Asteras.

Leave Peloponnesus with some top league representation! :)

[athinaios]

I see your reasoning, but Asteras was one of the dirtiest teams that's why I'd choose them. Very anti-sportsmanlike play. I'd rather see Paneliakos in the SL.

[Irlandos]

...and I'd rather see Pannafpliakos (Panargeiakos will do) but, until that day, let Tripoli have some fun, giving the big teams a tough time.

[thrylos]

I really want to see teams outside of Athens and Thessaloniki be strong.

Greece needs this.

Regional teams.

I would like to see Asteras stay, but they need to go. (My dad almost killed me as Tripoli is near where he was born, Sitena Kinourias near Astros). Tripoli is too small to support this team long term. Tripoli will combine resources with Kalamata this offseason.

11. Kerkyra -- 30---too small to stay long term

- . Panionios --30---i hope they stay

13. Atromitos --29---i think they are done

14. Asteras --28-----they are done

15. Larisa --24---I hope they stay

16. Panserraikos --20---they are done

In my ideal world, 3 teams from Athens would get relegated. Olympiakos, Panathinaikos and AEK.

On a side note, I would like to see Ergoteli and OFI combine resources and rename the team Iraklio FC. I would like to see Patra have a team again. Giannena seem to be back on their way. Larissa, Xanthi, Kabala and Olympiakos Bolos need to be here.

Thrylos' amazing SuperLEague with himself as commish:

OLYMPIAKOS

PANATHINAIKOS

PAOK

AEK

ARIS

XANTHI

KABALA

OLYMPIAKOS BOLOU

LARISSA

GIANNENA

IRAKLIO FC

PATRA (PANAHAIKI)

----------HAVING THE ABOVE 12 MENTIONED TEAMS STRONG EVERY YEAR IS NEEDED

Then the below mentioned teams coming and going. Six of them would be up every year.

PANAITOLIKOS

DRAMA

TRIKALA

SERRES

RODOS

BEROIA

LEBADIAKOS

IRAKLIS

KERKYRA

KALAMATA/TRIPOLI

PANIONIOS

ATROMITOS

HANIA

Anyways I went off topic and on a rant

[Irlandos]

Three matches before the end the bottom of the League table is as follows:

11. Panionios --31

12. Kerkyra -- 30

--. Atromitos --30

14. Asteras --28

15. Larisa --25

16. Panserraikos --20

Panserraikos are officially relegated.

Larisa need a minor miracle.

The 3rd spot is open.

[Euro2004]

Take out the Championship race and the Superleague is absolutely fantastic this year in terms of competitiveness. Europa League race is really exciting too

[Irlandos]

Two matches before the end the bottom of the League table is as follows:

11. Iraklis --33

12. Kerkyra -- 30

--. Atromitos --30

14. Asteras --28

15. Larisa --25

16. Panserraikos --23

Panserraikos are officially relegated.

Larisa are 99% relegated.

Who will follow???

[Euro2004]

I think Asteras might go down. They are better than Kerkyra but they have two very tough games and the extra 2 points Kerkyra have might make the difference.

How exciting is the Europa League race though? Aris are 5 points behind Volos with 2 games to go. The first is Aris at home to Volos! If Aris win then Volos have to get a result against PAO who would love nothing more than to end Olympiakos Volos' European dreams!

[Irlandos]

...and it has been decided:

Asteras Tripolis

AE Larisa

Panserraikos

bid farewell to the Superleague

[pao123]

im upset that larissa was relegated...i kind of like piladakis...he was able to do something ALOT of team are not able to do. BUILD A STADIUM. he seems like a good guy who LEGITIMATELY cares and loves the club (unlike cancers like BEOS) he is probably feeling it economically too and i hope they dont continue dropping divisions as some teams often do. they were so poor last year that sometimes i could not believe it. they had a decent roster but just could not get it together for various reasons.

i hope to see them back up...we need a larger non-athenian representation in the A ethniki.

[Euro2004]

im upset that larissa was relegated...i kind of like piladakis...he was able to do something ALOT of team are not able to do. BUILD A STADIUM. he seems like a good guy who LEGITIMATELY cares and loves the club (unlike cancers like BEOS) he is probably feeling it economically too and i hope they dont continue dropping divisions as some teams often do. they were so poor last year that sometimes i could not believe it. they had a decent roster but just could not get it together for various reasons.

i hope to see them back up...we need a larger non-athenian representation in the A ethniki.

I second that! Although I expect them to come straight back up

[Irlandos]

Just when you thought it had been finalised, Asteras Tripolis are appealing against their relegation claiming that Iraklis should forfeit all their games since the January transfer period as the transfers they made were illegal!

From Sportaction (in Greek)

Should Asteras' appeal be accepted, Iraklis will drop below Asteras in the standings and thus be relegated on "merit", not technicality, whilst Asteras will move up to 13th place and will NOT be relegated!

[Euro2004]

Why were they illegal exactly?

[Irlandos]

My understanding is:

Apparently, before a team can buy any new players, they must submit documents from IKA (Social Security Administration) that they don't owe any back payments for Social Insurance.

The accusations that EPO made against Iraklis is that they submitted older papers -rather than current ones - and that in January they actually owed quite a bit in back payments to IKA.

[Euro2004]

so basically Ira tried to get ahead with corruption, and people feel sorry for them why exactly? They got what they deserved. Any idea who this differed from Panionios' scenario though Irlande?

[Irlandos]

I can't understand Panionios' case!

They submitted papers that were deemed inadequate in the first instance but were acceptable on appeal! Unless additional documents were submitted, this one has me puzzled. Unless, of course, EPO did not think it appropriate to relegate two historic Superleague teams in the same year...

[pao123]

My understanding is:

Apparently, before a team can buy any new players, they must submit documents from IKA (Social Security Administration) that they don't owe any back payments for Social Insurance.

The accusations that EPO made against Iraklis is that they submitted older papers -rather than current ones - and that in January they actually owed quite a bit in back payments to IKA.

do you think they are the only club to use outdated forms or provide fraudent IKA payment information? i guarentee the 4 top teams are not squeeky clean with their paperwork and IKA payments...

there is something else beyond the information that they are giving us, behind this decision...i am not a big conspiracy theorist, but when it comes to "legal" issues in greece, i tend to try to think below the surface...I have been witness to certain "legal" disputes and have also been witness to how they are "resolved".

[athinaios]

That's one of the main problems with this league and indeed with Greek system: Not trustworthy.

Oly has won championships because the law/rules weren't applied equally or consistently.

I think one of the solutions may be to form an independent organization (maybe hire an int'l sports firm) to run the league and enforce the rules without a bias.

I don't say this lightly but unless there is transparency and professionalism this league will never going to be great. Meanwhile the distance from the more successful euro teams is growing.

[Euro2004]

My understanding is:

Apparently, before a team can buy any new players, they must submit documents from IKA (Social Security Administration) that they don't owe any back payments for Social Insurance.

The accusations that EPO made against Iraklis is that they submitted older papers -rather than current ones - and that in January they actually owed quite a bit in back payments to IKA.

do you think they are the only club to use outdated forms or provide fraudent IKA payment information? i guarentee the 4 top teams are not squeeky clean with their paperwork and IKA payments...

there is something else beyond the information that they are giving us, behind this decision...i am not a big conspiracy theorist, but when it comes to "legal" issues in greece, i tend to try to think below the surface...I have been witness to certain "legal" disputes and have also been witness to how they are "resolved".

Guys there's a major problem with statements like this. If EPO didn't take action people would say "EPO ignore illegal practices because they are corrupt". Instead, they take action and yet people say "They've only punished Ira, there must be more teams they should punish, so they must be corrupt".

Assuming that more teams have dodgy paper work is mere speculation. What we do know is that Iraklis didn't abide by the rules and they've been punished. Come on guys, give EPO a break.

[pao123]

its obvious you arent fully aware of the greek legal system.

theres nothing wrong with my statement because it is reality in greece today...in all aspects not just footballing, when it comes to the laws, how they are enforced, who they enforce them upon, who they dont and who is behind the prosecution and the catalyst of it...

if there is to be punishment, it should be across the board...dodgy paperwork? i remember not too long ago some evidence of olympiakos' fraudelent financial statement were up in question (during the kokkalis era) and all of a sudden, for no reason, the investigation got dropped....oh wait, the same thing happened to paok as well...i can find more evidence and continue if you would like..

im not saying iraklis shouldnt be punished...if they truly broke the law then they should..that is no question...but if they are, everyone else who breaks the law should be accordingly..but as we have seen, even in this past year, they arent...that is what im trying to say...maybe you misunderstand me...or maybe you seem to be good at twisting words...either way, it is hard not to look behind the curtain and try to see when there is corruption, especially considering greece is the 2/3 most corrupt nation in europe...they are not corrupt only bc of these types of actions. they are corrupt bc that is how they run and survive as a system. taking a second to stop and to try to FULLY understand certain decisions, and what exactly is involved in the decision making process might do some people in greece some good, instead of just reading the papers and believing what some of those clowns are telling you...

it may simply be that you dont understand the reality of the law and legal system of the country and how terribly corrupt and dishonest it is..otherwise you would probably agree with me...some things i have heard and seen while practicing in greece would probably drop your jaw, which is why i want nothing to do with working in the country anymore..i have never seen so many lies, so much deception or so much backstabbing ever in my life before...i will stick to running my villas :D and leave the lawyering to more fair and reasonable systems..

and by the way...the epo is corrupt if you havent been able to tell already...and if you havent, i am jealous of your ignorance

they are doing a straight up GOD AWFUL job running football in the country, to give them "a break" would mean i am happy by the way things are being run, which i am not, and no one should be...

give the epo a break? dont make me laugh.

[Irlandos]

The latest: EPO have accepted Asteras' appeal and have adjudged Iraklis' papers to have been "fraudulent". They have nullified Iraklis' six January transfers which will, in all likelihood, result in a deduction of points for Iraklis, which in turn will push Asteras Tripolis to 13th place.

Is anyone else confused? :huh:

From Sportaction (in Greek)

[Irlandos]

Btw, I am very familiar and also believe what has been written here: smaller teams have been made to pay where stronger ones have gone scott-free of the same offences.

Some examples:

*Iraklis being robbed of the 1948 championship because the referee claimed he sent off one of their players who did not leave the pitch.

*Ethnikos being disqualified out of the league in 1957(?) because owner Karoulias spoke to Hungarian stars Puskas and Kocsis(!)

*Iraklis being denied an UEFA Cup place in 1986 as the team ahead of them - caught in bribery - were punished with a deduction of points not in 1986 (as they should've been) but in the following year(!)

*Iraklis being relegated in 1980 for bribing opposing players. Other team had been caught, before and after, but were only punished with a deduction of points.

I will not go into offences of the top three clubs but all three have been guilty in the past.

Italy thought nothing of punishing superstar Paolo Rossi and relegating AC Milan.

[Euro2004]

pao123 relax re, i wasn't having a go at you. You're right i have never had any experience with legal systems or jobs in Greece. I do know many Greek and Greek Cypriot businessman have untaken many business ventures in Greece and Cyprus but always say they'd never invest in Greece. But my point is that as enlightening and interesting as the points Irlandos has made are, all of those examples given are from the past with other presidents in charge. We should welcome this new step and demand that more consistent action like this be taken to try and stamp out corruption.