Cisseee13 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Vazelas once again i gotta side with you..Drakos your responses are making me cringe..Gekas is a lil better than Salpi there like the same retarted player..saying him and cisse would be the bomb or bam whatever you said ur insanee :LOL: ..Cisse shouldnt even be mentioned in the same sentence with Fanis hehe..but seriously how are you making Nikos defend Cisse..hes our biggest bam signing ever..attitude that we never had..9 million euros to get him..and all your talking about is a little shrimp greek that we had 3 years ago that we got rid of cus Salpi came to town..i mean chill with the greeks the only one that still can play from euro 2004 is the one that plays cm for us every sunday..Cisse's the bomb his cocky tattood mohak a$$ is about to tear olympiakos and every other greek team to pieces :box: ;) ..As for Mullet Fanis :nono: ..sorry drakos im not trying to go backwords Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cisseee13 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Damn jus read FC twente signed Foward Bernard Parker for 1.1 mill..we were linked to him, was kinda hopin we secretely were gunna pick this guy up..hes a smaller N'doye..cant get over why we still have Petropoulos Salpi and Rukavina over that crazy talent..HTC what a shame bro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYPAO13 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 In case no one has realized in this arguement that our defence still sucks a$$. No body should complain about Cisse. No one thought it would happen & it did. Give them credit for that. They better stop sitting on their brains & get some quality defenders quick!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakos13 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 In 129 league games for auxerre from 1998 to 2004 he hit 68 goals.. This doest include europe and cup games.. Not to mention he hit 15 goal for france in his career. Mantzios is good. Thats it With Liverpool, he broke his leg on oct 30 and came back that same season and scored 4 goals in 11 matches. With the French NT he broke his leg in early June and came back 5 months later and scord 8 goals int he teams last 19 league games... and also scored 3 goals in the cup run they had. In greece we would of said.. ''kala, mexri na vrei forma tora.. tou xrovou..." The following year he hit 22 goals in 48 games with marseille. Plus he is a well renowned DJ in France.. he even has a CD... :P Your stats have got to be incorrect man. Nowhere anywhere have I found close those. I read he only has 8-9 goals for France, he doesnt have 160 club goals - or even near that amount. He never hit 22 goals in a season with Marseille. He hit 19 (all competitions) in 49 matches. The season before he had 8.... Anyways all I care about is him scoring with us and keeping good discipline with us. The point is his goal stats your giving are inflated, not real. Cissseeeeeee13 Of course my responses are making you cringe. I dont buy into the bandwagon s%$#!, we've seen big players come and go. I try to be a bit more fair and accept that players have drawbacks, as well as highlights. In your case, Cisse has absolutley nothing wrong with him, or that a Greek player cannot possibly be as good as a foreign name etc let alone be mentioned in the same sentence. This simply is not a realistic perspective and you'd rather cringe than admit the possibility Cisse is not perfection. Gkekas performed in Green. Fact. He hit good numbers, fact. He's the leading Greek forward, the best our country has to offer. He's great with his head and in the air, and great on breaks and finding breaks. He bailed us out of those small games where we couldnt score, and weve needed a player like that. Youre another typical "Greeks are inferior" attitude is bull. So because we had Karagkounis, we should have never re-signed the guy? Great reasoning. Who needs a Greek anyways, when you can pay $$$$$ for something that does not neccesarily even perform. Experience in Greece and PAO IS valuable. Gkekas a shrimp? Oh sure. Top Bundesliga scorer is a shrimp. The guy is pan-scorer, he scores where he plays. When he gets on the field, he finds goals. He's that type of player we need. Not Salpiggidis. The difference is huge between the two players, Salpi cannot even finish basic chances, he cant dribble, hes weak and he cant play in the air. Gkekas was a better player, and became even better after he went to Germany. He improved since Kallithea, since PAO, and since Germany. A player who used to be very good for us, got much better. When the player hits his form, goals find HIM. And Gkekas leaving because Salpiggidis came, is the stupidest reason ever. Not only is Gkekas doing great and a better all around striker more complete, but put the two TOGETHER. Good teams usually have good striking pairs. Not, oh, i've already got one good striker, cant have two! This is idiots mentality. Gkekas and Cisse would be a MUCH better partnership than Cisse and Rukavina, or Cisse and Salpiggidis.....even Mantzios. Yeah you beleive everything he says I'm sure. You even created your SN over the craze for the player. So you'd be too embarassed to keep an open mind and admit drawbacks on the player anyways. I hope he does beat Olympiakos.........surely he'll beat them like his wife on a sunday...... :LOL: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikosVazelas Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Djibril_Cisse 160 goals....362 games... not including friendlies... or NT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakos13 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Do you have a real source other than Wikipedia? You should really read that Wikipedia article, because its totally full of mixed numbers. The 90 goals is uncited and nowhere anywhere but Wiki has written 90 goals for Auxerre. And Wikipedia has a rightful reputation as a worthless resource. You may as well beleive that he hit 60 goals for liverpool too. Its just as credible a claim becuase theres zero credibility or source behind either of them. If you go and add the total on the right hand side its 113 anyways Wikipedia a worthless football resource unless it has cited articles. Here in the exact same page it is claimed in different parts that he scored: 90 goals for Auxerre (completley false) 68 goals for Auxerre 70 goals for Auxerre (soccerbase.comm Sports Interactive claims this too along with Cisse's official page) Transfermarkt.de. Free, and not only says goals, but scroll down and will tell you the minutes played and match the goal was in, along with assists. It only goes back so far though. He did not score 160 goals man. Dont mean to break the fantasy but the real number is ~116. Auxerre: (sports interactive article from 2004) 1998-99 Auxerre 1 0 1999-00 Auxerre 2 0 2000-01 Auxerre 25 8 2001-02 Auxerre 29 22 2002-03 Auxerre 33 14 2003-04 Auxerre 38 26 According to Transfermarkt + Cisse's website and British newspaper the Daily Telegraph, he hit 13 goals for Liverpool (all competitions). If he hit 23 goals with Liverpool& Sunderland over 3 seasons, 27 with Marseille over 2 seasons, and 70 with Auxerre over 5 seasons..... thats 116 goals. Not 160 goals, and no, its not even close to being the same. And Cisse counted his non-league goals on his Liverpool stats on his page. I'd think he did the same for his Auxerre, where everything says he has 70 goals. And U21 goals? Youth Goals? give me a break.....A youth goal and a senior goal are not counted together...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikosVazelas Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 You are not including europe, cup games in your stats... And thats not at all the same thign is it..The way i see it, thats liek sayin Cisse wont play for us in the CL. And thats like saying mantzios had a good year last year... without his 4cl goals... :P In League 1, For auxerre, he scored 70 goals.. soccerbase . com... This doesnt include the 12 goals he scored in the coupe de France, or the 4 he scored in the coupe de la ligue... NOR the 4 goals he scored in the uefa cup. 90 goals for auxerre. He scored 9 with the french NT and 7 with the u-21... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikosVazelas Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 With Liverpool he scored 11 league goals over two seasons... 9 in europe... and 2 in the cup games... thats 22.... With Sunder land he scored 10 in the league and 1 in the cup. With Marseille, 24 league goals in 56 games. 10 goals in 9 cup games and 3 goals in 11 european games. With Auxerre he scored 68 goals in 128 league games, 16 goals in 21 cup games and 4 goals in 17 european games. With the french NT he scored 9 goals.. 169 goals in 403 total games played.... These stats dont include friendlies and Youth games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakos13 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 With Liverpool he scored 11 league goals over two seasons... 9 in europe... and 2 in the cup games... thats 22.... With Sunder land he scored 10 in the league and 1 in the cup. With Marseille, 24 league goals in 56 games. 10 goals in 9 cup games and 3 goals in 11 european games. With Auxerre he scored 68 goals in 128 league games, 16 goals in 21 cup games and 4 goals in 17 european games. With the french NT he scored 9 goals.. 169 goals in 403 total games played.... These stats dont include friendlies and Youth games. I dont understand if your going to make the claim why you wouldnt post a source? According to his own website, and to Daily Telegraph News, to Transfermarkt. He has 13 goals for Liverpool, in all competitions including 3 European Goals. Cisse managed 13 goals in 48 appearances for Liverpool before completing a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikosVazelas Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 This is a video of 32 goals cisse scored at Marseille, all competitions included..... 4 months before going to sunderland... he scored a hat trick in his final season and added two others along the way... Obviously your stats about 27 in two years with Marseille are off Drakos... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikosVazelas Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 13 goals in 48 appearances are league appearances... not europe.. He scored 9 in europe and 2 in the cup Here is your source With all of Cisses goals Cup Europe and League http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/football/dji...bril-cisse.html so thats ... League Only 70 Auxerre 13 Liverpool 24 Marseille 10 Sunderland 117 just from League play.... Not europe not cup.... not NT If you are wondering which 9 goals he scored in europe.. he scored 7 goals in the champions league over two season with liverpool and he scored 2 in the Super Cup Final against CSKA Moscow Here's another one that shows 106 goals in league play only.. not includign the 10 with sunderland... http://www.footballdatabase.com/index.php?...bril_Cissé 106 in 233 games... There seems to be a dliemma in Marseille one year.. its 15 instead of 16.. maybe there was an own goal situation... who knows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikosVazelas Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Do not confuse Arrogance with confidence.. This man says I liek scoring goals against big teams.. and not only Oly fans should be scared.. ALL OPPOSING fans should be scared... Its better than the kinda stuff we been used too... "We are gonna try our best and our goal is to win every game.. teeheehee" I dont know about problems he has had in the past about beating anyone... or whatever... I wasnt there to see it.. All i know is when i was 19 my gf at the time called the police and told them that i hit her and threatened her... All I really did was say " If i ever catch you cheating on me, im going to kill you'' Does that mean I would have no.. Did I hit her.. No.. Do I have a criminal record...? Yes... Its all bullshit... He doesnt drink, Doesnt smoke and doesnt do drugs... Came back from 2 devastating injuries in under 6 months, after doctors told him he would be out for 8 to 12... Scores at a ration of one goal every 2 appearances... He can be a little cocky in my book Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYPAO13 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Cisses' presents alone will account for more goals by others.. That may be a stat that we may not see. Cisse nets 15 goals & helps others score due to more gaps in the opposition, :tup: Meanwhile who's gonna stop the other team, Sarriegi?? GET SOME QUALITY DEFENDERS STUPIDS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cisseee13 Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 damnn i cant believe you guys just argued like that over the nigs goals..bottom line is hes pretty nice at what he does..whether he scored 127 or 177,,hes gunna score goals..hes gunna draw double teams so other guys can get shots..but enough about him we really need 2 defenders maybe even 3..whos playing LB other than Spyropoulos (whos really not to good himself anyway)..all this talk about a RB but we already have Moon and Vyntra..we just loeaned Leontiou to Kavala so whos backing up Spyropoulos on the left..i also read that AEK offered Giourkas 650k a year for 3 years and he said ill let you know in 10 days..hes not my favorite but lets offer 850 or something i mean hes a free transfer and we need defenders..in my eyes Sarriegi and Melisis arent even Pao material,there very slow and skilless :tdown: ..so we need to get another CB soon too..i dunno if you guys would approve but since Katsu and Gilberto are likely to take up the 2 DM spots i think he should play Simao at CB..i think he would become a sick stopper if we played him there every game..lastly i think we could still use 1 more foward to use up top with Cisse ;) ..the other 5 we have now are a$$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikosVazelas Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 We need a RB Kante can play Lb and did so for 78 games in the last 4 season at Nice. I still think he is a quality defender and Ten Cate seems to have lots of faith in him. One mistake in one friendly means nothing. On CB.. We have Kante, Vyntra, Sariegui, Perhaps the Swede and lets not forget Katsouranis who played CB in Benifca in 12 matches last year. He also has played lots of cb for Rehagel. Time will tel lbut I think we will sign the Swede and he will be a permanent fixture on our defensive core for years to come Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYPAO13 Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 Time will tel lbut I think we will sign the Swede and he will be a permanent fixture on our defensive core for years to come meanwhile we need some experience back there. QUALITY!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakos13 Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 Do not confuse Arrogance with confidence.. This man says I liek scoring goals against big teams.. and not only Oly fans should be scared.. ALL OPPOSING fans should be scared... Its better than the kinda stuff we been used too... "We are gonna try our best and our goal is to win every game.. teeheehee" I dont know about problems he has had in the past about beating anyone... or whatever... I wasnt there to see it.. All i know is when i was 19 my gf at the time called the police and told them that i hit her and threatened her... All I really did was say " If i ever catch you cheating on me, im going to kill you'' Does that mean I would have no.. Did I hit her.. No.. Do I have a criminal record...? Yes... Its all bullshit... He doesnt drink, Doesnt smoke and doesnt do drugs... Came back from 2 devastating injuries in under 6 months, after doctors told him he would be out for 8 to 12... Scores at a ration of one goal every 2 appearances... He can be a little cocky in my book Dude, he confessed to the police that he hit his wife who called the cops on him.He also hit a boy across the face who made fun of him, and hit a stripper. I never heard/beleived he was substance free, but I sure hope you are right. I personally hated the player until we signed him. I'm hoping he does great too, because I've wanted a player like Cisse on our front line for a long time -- FAST. Anyways, about the goals, forget it. I seriously dont care to search more sources saying otherwise because the point was over arrogance anyways. They need to have some decent football stat sites out there is all we can conclude because numbers are obviously conflicting at points. My point was calling Seitaridis a prima donna, while Cisse is being neglected. Did Cisse earn it? Sure, but Seitaridis was a fantastic player with PAO, integral to the Greece Euro 2004, scored big goals as a youth vs Man U, big CL performances, played for teams such as Atletico and Porto (who signed him as a primary target being CL defending champs), and he performed quite well. We definitley need a right back, and Giourkas is perfect for the job, because hes got the talent, the experience that exactly PAO needs Kante were a bit unsure of. If we dont sign anyother defenders, this wil be another failed transfer season - Cisse or not. The defensive issue was ignored last 2 transfer periods and to no suprise the team suffered. Kante is not a solution. I absolutely do not want Katsouranis as a CB, nor Simao. Simao is much better in DM, and Gilberto should not start over him simply because his last name is more reknowned. Simao performed better last year. Tough s%$#! for Gilberto, or tough for Katsouranis. We have 5 excellent defensive midfielders and not 1 excellent CB. :unsure: By excellent I mean for Superleague standards. Sariegui is a very poor player. he has some games where he holds it togehter but hes just not enough. Vyntra has shown to be the best CB we have currently so that is worrysome at the same time. The Swede is a wildcard, Kante is looking to be mediocre-average by the first 2 games but theres time ahead to see more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikosVazelas Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 Well Kante.. one game. His first game he played 45 mins as a DM cuz we had no other DMs available. Time will tell with Kante. and The swede. I wish we get the swede...He is gonna be a good one. I agree about simao being great but we only have 4 great DMs.. Tziolis is anything but great. He is good. Giourkas is over rated by Nikosvazelas. doesnt mean he is not a good player. I just wish we can someone ALOT better. you mention all these achievements but Which of them have been in the last 4 years. Since the Euro.. he has sucked. Other than a 3 month period last year. In MY opinion, he can go drive his fast cars with AEK and let them gamble on an ex PAO player. I want a STAR and I want him now.. Cough up 3 million and buy a RB... Of course this is sayign that Moon will suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakos13 Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 Well Kante.. one game. His first game he played 45 mins as a DM cuz we had no other DMs available. Time will tell with Kante. and The swede. I wish we get the swede...He is gonna be a good one. I agree about simao being great but we only have 4 great DMs.. Tziolis is anything but great. He is good. Giourkas is over rated by Nikosvazelas. doesnt mean he is not a good player. I just wish we can someone ALOT better. you mention all these achievements but Which of them have been in the last 4 years. Since the Euro.. he has sucked. Other than a 3 month period last year. In MY opinion, he can go drive his fast cars with AEK and let them gamble on an ex PAO player. I want a STAR and I want him now.. Cough up 3 million and buy a RB... Of course this is sayign that Moon will suck. Tziolis is unfairly hated by PAO fans. He is developed quite a bit, and not the player he was 2 yrs ago. You have to take him for what hes worth NOW - not THEN, or not what media has built a player up to be (in Rukavina's example).Seitaridis has NOT sucked since the Euro. False. everytime i saw him play with Atleti he was doing well and i didnt get to see him last year. You are puting him in the same pile as rubbish like Charisteas and Nikopolidis which is entirely unjustified. Seitaridis is better than any RB in Greece by a long shot. We've never succesfully replaced Seitaridis since he left. He has exp at PAO and Greece plus added benefits of beign abroad. The scenario worked out fantastic with Karagkounis and he's in some of his best form ever this season. Trend will continue with Giourkas and even Gkekas. Because big foreign experience + greek experience is quite valuable, and more valuable than just foreign experience. Too many big names come and do nothing in Greece. I prefer a player we've known to perform here AND has the career and experience in bigger leagues and clubs. Best of both worlds, I'll take it. Tziolis was quite good with Bremen, and by Superleague standards 100% Tziolis is an excellent player. Fortunately we have 4 other DM's who we can say are even better, but not being as good as 4 other excellent players does not mean you suck. Hes still a good player on a team with an excess of very strong DMs. Also Kante --- 2games. 1 with the embarassing error.......Its early but its not a great sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikosVazelas Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 Tziolis is good. Thats what I said.. He is not as good as any of our other DMs. He is good though. I always liked him. No way is he great. Kante played 2 games and made one error. Galinovic sucks as well... he played like crap against Young Boys. Romero was tearing it up when we got him in pre season. We all know how good he was. This is all training.. Nothing shoudl be taken seriously.. At least not yet. Giourka is not who he was. Not by a long shot. Giourka before he left is better than any other RB in greece. The giourka since is debatable. Id still rather spend money and get a star in that position. And stop talkin about Rukavina as if he is the worst player you have seen. The kid came to Pao as a 22 year old and scored 10 goals in all competitions. Give him a break. Mantzios and Tziolis were Horrible in their first 3 years at pao.. and now they are GREAT... relax man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakos13 Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 Tziolis is good. Thats what I said.. He is not as good as any of our other DMs. He is good though. I always liked him. No way is he great. Kante played 2 games and made one error. Galinovic sucks as well... he played like crap against Young Boys. Romero was tearing it up when we got him in pre season. We all know how good he was. This is all training.. Nothing shoudl be taken seriously.. At least not yet. Giourka is not who he was. Not by a long shot. Giourka before he left is better than any other RB in greece. The giourka since is debatable. Id still rather spend money and get a star in that position. And stop talkin about Rukavina as if he is the worst player you have seen. The kid came to Pao as a 22 year old and scored 10 goals in all competitions. Give him a break. Mantzios and Tziolis were Horrible in their first 3 years at pao.. and now they are GREAT... relax man. Rukavina sucks, deal. he's an example of a lackluster player we went to fill important positions with. Thats why I use him as an example. 10 scrap goals I could care less. Even Petropoulos who is rubbished by fans basically got 8-9, yet Rukavina is considered "great class". He's not the worst I've seen. But I seriously cannot understand him being considered and treated as a vital part of the first team.Galinovic has been great for us. He does not suck. Tziolis is excellent for Superleague (GREEK LEAGUE) standards. If you read what I said, Kante is only 2 games and 2 games that were extremley early for preseason, so no its not even close to definitive. Its just a point of conversation that we still dont have real STRENGTH back there. He came as a replacement for Jakup anyways he could end up a very goood player and I hope so. My point is, we need a big player in the back line whos got talent expereince and can lead us. A bigger fish..... Seitaridis is very good signing for us. He's got what we need. We dont really have the cash to sign another big star though of course it would be nice. Right now, he's the most realistic signing we can get on short notice and still would be a top signing for the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikosVazelas Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 I dont uderstand what a scrap goal is...He scored the winner against Xanthi with 10 men, scored the insurance goal against AEK, scored against Aris and most of his appearance were of 25 minutes or less. Talk about scrap minutes. I just dont see how you can call someone CRAP when he played his first year with pao and scored 10 goals. No matter what kind of goals they were. its 10 goals in a season. for a reserve/first year youngster... Mantzios was utter crap his first 3 season in pao and now you call him GREAT...you are saying there is no chance Ruka will improve into a quality striker like mantzios? Wow.... usually i agree to disagree with you.. but this is just ridiculous. No one called Ruka a SUPERSTAR. I happen to like him cuz i like my team to have a variety of style of players. Ruka can dribble, he can pass and he has speed. He needs improvement no doubt. but he is 22. not 26 or 27. He played one year with pao and most of it coming off the bench. He scored 10 goals for you. If you want to take a chance on a 29 year old RB that USED to play for your team, has been a near or a total dissappointment in every team he has played since and for a million doallrs a year, im sure youd be willing to take a risk on a kid who scored 10 goals for you, in his first year in a real protathlima and is 22. 3 years ago you were screamin for Mantzios head and now he is a GREAT player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakos13 Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Scrap. See his goal vs AEK. That is what a scrap is - a goal any fool can finish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikosVazelas Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 You know there is more to a goal then just a finish. Mind you how many have missed chances like that in their career. Liek mantzios in the cip final against Larisa. The whole point of that goal wasnt the shot itself... its his movement before the goal, to get himself open for a pass. Thats intelligence and awareness. But hey you are entitled to your opinion. Here is the mantzios SCRAP miss.... a goal any fool can finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikosVazelas Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 oh btw Drakos... Happy Birthday nata ekatostiseis megale... :band: :bday: :bday: :bday: :bday: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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