Bananas

And all orchestrated by the "responsible" and "serious" Troika. Greece wasn't exactly a model of economic prosperity before hand, but the actions of the Troika have been naive, irresponsible, amateurish and obstinate. But it's all Greece's fault! Maybe pre-2008, but since then, much blame goes on the serious people who have no idea about economics. They still think running a country is like balancing the books in a business. And the end result ? Well, it's there for all to see.

If you think :- - carving up what is left of Greece and handing it over to foreigners. - guaranteeing a 4th bailout if the IMF don't step in (by which time Greece's "unpayable" debt will be 500 million) - guaranteeing more cuts in GDP. - guaranteeing 25% unemployment for the country. - guaranteeing 50% unemployment for youth and zero future. is the sensible, logical, rational, most responsible thing to do, then well, what I can say. You should all be happy that the parliamentarians (thanks for the oxi but let the grown ups handle it now), voted yes today. I can honestly say, this is a terrible day. The only good news is for all those posters that would rather see Greece get mauled than see Syriza in power, your wish has been granted.

jvc, I hope you're right about the reforms actually being implemented. I think it's going to be more a case of the EU picking the low hanging fruit. Anything that requires actual system wide implementation with serious man-power will either be put in the too hard basket or they'll make a "token" effort and say "see, we tried but the greek people blah blah". All I can say is that reading about the vote this morning, I'm disgusted. But apparently the majority think that handing over your country and your people over to Germany is preferable. Go figure. In breaking news ... Germany offers solution for greek debt. Every greek citizen can donate a kidney or other non-essential organs. Pussies, the lot of them.

It would be nice if Greece could shake off its inferiority complex and stop relying on the US, UK, Germany, France, Russia etc. Why would they want to help Greece ? Each country looks out for themselves and Greece should do the same. It's not about being nasty or unsympathetic. It's just about being realistic. Where has this attitude of needing a big brother gotten us ? It hasn't benefited us at all. In fact, it's made Greece mentally weaker.

The deal that Tsipras "negotiated" will result in a 4th bailout not 100%, not 1,000 % but 1,000,000%. Maybe the IMF may come to the rescue (the irony) and get a big debt restructure. They are talking about a big up front cut or to postpone it for 30 years. 30 years!! That's how bad the deal that Tsipras "agreed" to is. And does Germany know this ? Of course they do. But Merkel won't be there to clean up the mess. She'll have retired to a Greek island bought a nice discount. But what do I know. 75% of Greeks still want the Euro! After what's happened in the last 5 years, they would still rather stick with the Euro. How much must they distrust their own politicians, and how little faith do they have in them, that they would prefer this to going back to their old currency. In the meantime, their great grandchildren will be paying back the debt. Yep, great decision everyone. Stick with the Euro. Protect your pensions and let the kids pay for it once you're gone.

Well. Don't really know what to say. You come out punching once again. The Junta! The Junta! You know what. I'll allow the "teachers" to "teach" the kids on one condition. You design the syllabus. I would love to see its contents. And then we wonder why Greece is broken. And yes, so so so so many people will wake up today and think "you know what, I never realised before ... but ... that Papandreou guy, he ruined the country". It will be a religious moment also. Getting tingly just thinking about it. *Sigh* In breaking news, Greek PM shows courage ... and then realises it was only a dream.

Yes.

All those anti-drachma morons will see the error of their ways when Greece needs a 4th bailout. Maybe Krugman didn't win a Nobel Prize. It must've been a Moron Prize.

Posted from Varoufakis blog http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2015/07/14/on-the-euro-summits-statement-on-greece-first-thoughts/ In the next hours and days, I shall be sitting in Parliament to assess the legislation that is part of the recent Euro Summit agreement on Greece. I am also looking forward to hearing in person from my comrades, Alexis Tsipras and Euclid Tsakalotos, who have been through so much over the past few days. Till then, I shall reserve judgment regarding the legislation before us. Meanwhile, here are some first, impressionistic thoughts stirred up by the Euro Summit?s Statement. A New Versailles Treaty is haunting Europe ? I used that expression back in the Spring of 2010 to describe the first Greek ?bailout? that was being prepared at that time. If that allegory was pertinent then it is, sadly, all too germane now. Never before has the European Union made a decision that undermines so fundamentally the project of European Integration. Europe?s leaders, in treating Alexis Tsipras and our government the way they did, dealt a decisive blow against the European project. The project of European integration has, indeed, been fatally wounded over the past few days. And as Paul Krugman rightly says, whatever you think of Syriza, or Greece, it wasn?t the Greeks or Syriza who killed off the dream of a democratic, united Europe. Back in 1971 Nick Kaldor, the noted Cambridge economist, had warned that forging monetary union before a political union was possible would lead not only to a failed monetary union but also to the deconstruction of the European political project. Later on, in 1999, German-British sociologist Ralf Dahrendorf also warned that economic and monetary union would split rather than unite Europe. All these years I hoped that they were wrong. Now, the powers that be in Brussels, in Berlin and in Frankfurt have conspired to prove them right. The Euro Summit statement of yesterday morning reads like a document committing to paper Greece?s Terms of Surrender. It is meant as a statement confirming that Greece acquiesces to becoming a vassal of the Eurogroup. The Euro Summit statement of yesterday morning has nothing to do with economics, nor with any concern for the type of reform agenda capable of lifting Greece out of its mire. It is purely and simply a manifestation of the politics of humiliation in action. Even if one loathes our government one must see that the Eurogroup?s list of demands represents a major departure from decency and reason. The Euro Summit statement of yesterday morning signalled a complete annulment of national sovereignty, without putting in its place a supra-national, pan-European, sovereign body politic. Europeans, even those who give not a damn for Greece, ought to beware. Much energy is expended by the media on whether the Terms of Surrender will pass through Greek Parliament, and in particular on whether MPs like myself will toe the line and vote in favour of the relevant legislation. I do not think this is the most interesting of questions. The crucial question is: Does the Greek economy stand any chance of recovery under these terms? This is the question that will preoccupy me during the Parliamentary sessions that follow in the next hours and days. The greatest worry is that even a complete surrender on our part would lead to a deepening of the never-ending crisis. The recent Euro Summit is indeed nothing short of the culmination of a coup. In 1967 it was the tanks that foreign powers used to end Greek democracy. In my interview with Philip Adams, on ABC Radio National?s LNL, I claimed that in 2015 another coup was staged by foreign powers using, instead of tanks, Greece?s banks. Perhaps the main economic difference is that, whereas in 1967 Greece?s public property was not targeted, in 2015 the powers behind the coup demanded the handing over of all remaining public assets, so that they would be put into the servicing of our un-payble, unsustainable debt.

Heck, I'd vote for the Benny Hill party if their policy was a controlled Grexit.

The next day will be like the last. All talk no action. Everyone looking towards everyone else to do something, with no one doing anything. I am keen to be proven wrong. I see no meaningful changes and a 4th bailout in 3 years. I see XA getting 10% of the vote at the next election.

Reaper, I agree with you about the number of "leftists". I also agree with you that their reasoning (in this day and age) is juvenile at best, down right stupid at worst. But I just don't buy the idea that they have run the country into the ground. I put most of the blame on governments of the past who didn't have the guts to make appropriate reforms. The reforms never had to super radical. No government really does that. It's just a series of usually small incremental changes and tweaks year after year. In Greece's case, there has been very little or none, which has gotten us to this point. Fixing the taxation system alone is 10 year project I believe. Maybe the kids who start University today will have graduated in 10 years from now to help with the mammoth project of reforming Greece. :)

I don't think Koulouris is ready yet. If he was, well, it would've shown last year. He probably needs to go on loan and get some game time under his belt. Then again, he might be better off training under Tudor.

Kitsiou and Skondras are different sort of players. Kitsiou is definitely a better attacker than Skondras, and Skondras is definitely a better defender. Skondras can only really player anywhere in the back line, and is versatile along there. He can play as a CB or LB if required. He's more rugged and aggressive. Kitsiou can play almost as a right mid, albeit not a superb one. I would say his natural position is a wing back, and the 3-5-2 suits him perfectly, as he then has cover behind him. Kitsiou can also play in the middle if required. Konstantinidis, I'm not so sure about ...

I don't mind that the games are all together. The only part that is a worry is that we play the "big 3" all at Toumba in the 1st round. Hopefully they don't get carried away at Round 8 if we happen to near the top of the ladder with "we're going to win the title" vlakies. After you play the big 3 in the 2nd round, and if near the top, then you can start talking. Until then, pexte bala!

And I will be very unhappy if we answer the door. :)

Lots of talk within this thread as well as in the world press about "reforms, reforms". But this takes time. This doesn't excuse the pathetic state of affairs in Greece, but to get Greece to Germany's level in terms of taxation collection, regulation etc, you realistically need probably 10 years. This will take a long time ...

Very true. A lot of bewilderment around the world at what has happened in the last few weeks. Yeah there is lots of the usual "why can't they just pay back the debt" coming even from Greeks themselves, but a lot of economists, politicians etc, people with "clout" are amazed and not impressed at what is happening.

So true. Especially the part about the bad governments. Unfortunately, Greece has never really had someone that went into government just to try and help the country, apart from a select few. I can't think of anyone in recent times. Having said that, the EU is now trying to control Greece. We are this ping pong ball that's now stuck between Germany and France. The Germans believe they can cut us loose (please do!), and the EU will be all right. Based on their past predictions from the 1st bail out onwards, I wouldn't put too much stock in their predictions. The French and Italians are deathly afraid of us being booted from the Euro, hence why they were so against Schauble's 5 year Grexit plan. And to top it off, Hollande is saying the Greeks weren't humiliated at all. In the meantime, the Greeks have eaten well, danced, sung, partied and are passing on the bill to their children. Shameful behaviour all round from everyone. As for the "European Project", well, we all know who is the boss now!

Reaper you go on and on about the leftists. If you were to remove all the leftists from the country, what would the population of Greece be ?

You should have asked me instead of pash. I would have done it for half the price.

I hope so. The "kid" is 24 years of age and has spent his professional career coming off the bench.

You can't get more Greek blooded than Daniel Batista Lima. Always loved seeing the Ethniki photos with him In the squad.

He's a bit of a risk to be fair. He's been very injury prone and hasn't played consistently. He did have a decent run of games last season but his injuries coupled with the fact that he'll want a hefty wage, means I don't really want him. If we had money to burn, sure, take the chance, but for the wages he'll want, I'd prefer someone more reliable. Enough of these has beens using PAOK as a recovery hospital. Yes, I'm looking at you Maduro and Maartens.

I am amazed this wasn't the first thing discussed the minute Syriza (or whoever won the election) got into government. The best thing Greece could have done is have a fall back plan. The only possible problem to this could be the narrow time frame of 6 months or so from getting into government until the bailout ran out. Either way, the day I realised how terrible the EU is, was the day they replaced Papandreou for "daring" to even mention a referendum. The way that episode played out, was an eye opener. The world is realising now, but the EU showed its colors then. That was when all the major parties in Greece should have got together and started planning for a Grexit. Not to necessarily do it, but to be prepared as possible if need be.