Bananas

I never cease to be surprised. I would have bet 100 dollars it would have been the other way around.

I agree about getting good players. Not so sure about getting them fast. We have to be realistic and accept the fact we probably can't get "top shelf" players. I'd rather we sign less players but of a higher quality, which is the approach Arnesen seems to be using. Either that or all his targets are selecting other clubs over ours. ;) Either way, this squad should be good enough to make it the group stage, and if they don't make it, well that indicates what level we're at now, and how much rebuilding needs to be done. The problem with us signing "high quality" players is that they usually don't want to come to PAOK. I'm guessing Arnesen is waiting for the transfer window to get closer at which point players will decide that PAOK's offer is the best they have, where as now, they are happy in general to wait and see if a better offer comes their way. What this means is that Arnesen is rolling the dice that the current squad is good enough to make the group stage. Risky I suppose, and I could be completely wrong. I'm just speculating. Regardless, I'm going to blaspheme now and say it. I'd rather we don't make the group stage if that means we don't sign players just for the sake of it. And if we can't make it with the current squad then they shouldn't be there. They shouldn't require "metagrafes" to get to the group stage. I find myself in the unusual situation of actually having faith in Arnesen with Tudor. Arnesen with his ice cold viking blood just make me feel calm ;) And I think Tudor has what it takes to make us a better team. I hope the rest of the PAOK fans have patience also.

How did Greece survive before when they had the dpx ? Or was I dreaming. As it is, Greece is now a vassal state ... without a shot being fired, or a soldier landing on our land. Complete and utter surrender. I await with bated breath for conditions to improve now after this 3rd bail out. Let's see how it turns out.

It is only for the common good that I reply or comment to your posts. But I have done it enough, and it may be the case that other posters have had enough as well and roll their eyes at this silly back and forth. The rest of your post, again, what have you been smoking ? I have a target now ... indeed *rolls eyes*. I will take your advice ... I think it's time we moved on.

Agreed, it's not the formation. If anything this formation strengthens the spine by having 3 in the back and 3 in the middle, at the expense of the flanks.

Enough of this Russia talk. Back on topic. I'm not surprised that there are anarchist actions now and to come. After all, this is Greece we're talking about. The land where they can't even get hooliganism in stadiums under control, when all it would take is some video surveillance and actual meaningful prosecutions. Having said that, Tsipras should not have agreed to the terms of the EU. And the reason is, it's not the platform he got voted in on. I'm not arguing about whether he did or didn't have a choice, that is a discussion for another time. What I am saying is he said if he got voted in, that he would "end" the austerity. Then, he holds a referendum. And the people vote Oxi. At this point, he has no option but to go through with the plan. He has to, or so you'd think. However he comes out of the meeting with the EU having effectively ceded all ground. Politically, this was a bad move, as well as ethically. He would have been better off walking calmly out of the meeting saying "I can't agree to these terms, and the EU won't negotiate, therefore I am resigning". At least this way he could have argued he didn't lie or screw the people. Hand over government to whoever wants it, but don't allow your signature to be the one that appears on the 3rd bailout. The EU would look bad since they effectively broke an elected government by using the ECB to cut liquidity, and Tsipras doesn't look like a hypocrite and an amateur. Which is how he looks now ... I don't know. Maybe I'm reading it all wrong but if he truly felt the deal was awful then he should not have signed. PASOK suffered badly in the previous election. Will the same happen to Syriza in the next ? I imagine their one shot in government is over. I can see PASOK picking up a few votes also. Not enough to get back into power but more than the election just past for sure. I wonder how XA would go if they stopped the violent racist stuff and instead ran on a platform of "end the austerity or Grexit". As for Tsipras, he should enjoy this time. It will be his last. And he should probably start siphoning money to a Swiss bank account while he can.

Easy re spelling bee champ. If you keep spelling as you do, you may get somewhere. As for your posts, they are rarely positive. And the rest of your post sounds like smoked a spliff before posting.

We are the grand masters of making things difficult :)

Yeah, I don't know where people come up with this sort of reasoning. Once again, it's an inferiority complex and the belief you can't stand on your own two feet. I reiterate, when has one country ever helped another ... just because. It just doesn't happen. Even when Greece was assisted in the past, it was because they were a block against the Ottoman Empire, or the Nazis, or because the US didn't want Greece falling under Russian influence just after WW2. It is always strategic. Always.

The away goal was so so so critical. It changes everything. If the score had remained 2-0, it would have made things so much harder.

Salpi and Mak just aren't clinical finishers. They need too many chances. We are sorely missing a "Berg" type striker that is a natural finisher. At one stage last year, Klaus was the man, but then it all went down hill. I hope we can get a quality striker and Klaus regains his form. It will completely change the team.

Reaper, you only comment on the bad plays. The above comment is the most positive comment you made. We're there no others ?

Thanks and thanks.

To be fair, the whole team was atrocious during the play-offs.

And all orchestrated by the "responsible" and "serious" Troika. Greece wasn't exactly a model of economic prosperity before hand, but the actions of the Troika have been naive, irresponsible, amateurish and obstinate. But it's all Greece's fault! Maybe pre-2008, but since then, much blame goes on the serious people who have no idea about economics. They still think running a country is like balancing the books in a business. And the end result ? Well, it's there for all to see.

If you think :- - carving up what is left of Greece and handing it over to foreigners. - guaranteeing a 4th bailout if the IMF don't step in (by which time Greece's "unpayable" debt will be 500 million) - guaranteeing more cuts in GDP. - guaranteeing 25% unemployment for the country. - guaranteeing 50% unemployment for youth and zero future. is the sensible, logical, rational, most responsible thing to do, then well, what I can say. You should all be happy that the parliamentarians (thanks for the oxi but let the grown ups handle it now), voted yes today. I can honestly say, this is a terrible day. The only good news is for all those posters that would rather see Greece get mauled than see Syriza in power, your wish has been granted.

jvc, I hope you're right about the reforms actually being implemented. I think it's going to be more a case of the EU picking the low hanging fruit. Anything that requires actual system wide implementation with serious man-power will either be put in the too hard basket or they'll make a "token" effort and say "see, we tried but the greek people blah blah". All I can say is that reading about the vote this morning, I'm disgusted. But apparently the majority think that handing over your country and your people over to Germany is preferable. Go figure. In breaking news ... Germany offers solution for greek debt. Every greek citizen can donate a kidney or other non-essential organs. Pussies, the lot of them.

It would be nice if Greece could shake off its inferiority complex and stop relying on the US, UK, Germany, France, Russia etc. Why would they want to help Greece ? Each country looks out for themselves and Greece should do the same. It's not about being nasty or unsympathetic. It's just about being realistic. Where has this attitude of needing a big brother gotten us ? It hasn't benefited us at all. In fact, it's made Greece mentally weaker.

The deal that Tsipras "negotiated" will result in a 4th bailout not 100%, not 1,000 % but 1,000,000%. Maybe the IMF may come to the rescue (the irony) and get a big debt restructure. They are talking about a big up front cut or to postpone it for 30 years. 30 years!! That's how bad the deal that Tsipras "agreed" to is. And does Germany know this ? Of course they do. But Merkel won't be there to clean up the mess. She'll have retired to a Greek island bought a nice discount. But what do I know. 75% of Greeks still want the Euro! After what's happened in the last 5 years, they would still rather stick with the Euro. How much must they distrust their own politicians, and how little faith do they have in them, that they would prefer this to going back to their old currency. In the meantime, their great grandchildren will be paying back the debt. Yep, great decision everyone. Stick with the Euro. Protect your pensions and let the kids pay for it once you're gone.

Well. Don't really know what to say. You come out punching once again. The Junta! The Junta! You know what. I'll allow the "teachers" to "teach" the kids on one condition. You design the syllabus. I would love to see its contents. And then we wonder why Greece is broken. And yes, so so so so many people will wake up today and think "you know what, I never realised before ... but ... that Papandreou guy, he ruined the country". It will be a religious moment also. Getting tingly just thinking about it. *Sigh* In breaking news, Greek PM shows courage ... and then realises it was only a dream.

Yes.

All those anti-drachma morons will see the error of their ways when Greece needs a 4th bailout. Maybe Krugman didn't win a Nobel Prize. It must've been a Moron Prize.

Posted from Varoufakis blog http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2015/07/14/on-the-euro-summits-statement-on-greece-first-thoughts/ In the next hours and days, I shall be sitting in Parliament to assess the legislation that is part of the recent Euro Summit agreement on Greece. I am also looking forward to hearing in person from my comrades, Alexis Tsipras and Euclid Tsakalotos, who have been through so much over the past few days. Till then, I shall reserve judgment regarding the legislation before us. Meanwhile, here are some first, impressionistic thoughts stirred up by the Euro Summit?s Statement. A New Versailles Treaty is haunting Europe ? I used that expression back in the Spring of 2010 to describe the first Greek ?bailout? that was being prepared at that time. If that allegory was pertinent then it is, sadly, all too germane now. Never before has the European Union made a decision that undermines so fundamentally the project of European Integration. Europe?s leaders, in treating Alexis Tsipras and our government the way they did, dealt a decisive blow against the European project. The project of European integration has, indeed, been fatally wounded over the past few days. And as Paul Krugman rightly says, whatever you think of Syriza, or Greece, it wasn?t the Greeks or Syriza who killed off the dream of a democratic, united Europe. Back in 1971 Nick Kaldor, the noted Cambridge economist, had warned that forging monetary union before a political union was possible would lead not only to a failed monetary union but also to the deconstruction of the European political project. Later on, in 1999, German-British sociologist Ralf Dahrendorf also warned that economic and monetary union would split rather than unite Europe. All these years I hoped that they were wrong. Now, the powers that be in Brussels, in Berlin and in Frankfurt have conspired to prove them right. The Euro Summit statement of yesterday morning reads like a document committing to paper Greece?s Terms of Surrender. It is meant as a statement confirming that Greece acquiesces to becoming a vassal of the Eurogroup. The Euro Summit statement of yesterday morning has nothing to do with economics, nor with any concern for the type of reform agenda capable of lifting Greece out of its mire. It is purely and simply a manifestation of the politics of humiliation in action. Even if one loathes our government one must see that the Eurogroup?s list of demands represents a major departure from decency and reason. The Euro Summit statement of yesterday morning signalled a complete annulment of national sovereignty, without putting in its place a supra-national, pan-European, sovereign body politic. Europeans, even those who give not a damn for Greece, ought to beware. Much energy is expended by the media on whether the Terms of Surrender will pass through Greek Parliament, and in particular on whether MPs like myself will toe the line and vote in favour of the relevant legislation. I do not think this is the most interesting of questions. The crucial question is: Does the Greek economy stand any chance of recovery under these terms? This is the question that will preoccupy me during the Parliamentary sessions that follow in the next hours and days. The greatest worry is that even a complete surrender on our part would lead to a deepening of the never-ending crisis. The recent Euro Summit is indeed nothing short of the culmination of a coup. In 1967 it was the tanks that foreign powers used to end Greek democracy. In my interview with Philip Adams, on ABC Radio National?s LNL, I claimed that in 2015 another coup was staged by foreign powers using, instead of tanks, Greece?s banks. Perhaps the main economic difference is that, whereas in 1967 Greece?s public property was not targeted, in 2015 the powers behind the coup demanded the handing over of all remaining public assets, so that they would be put into the servicing of our un-payble, unsustainable debt.

Heck, I'd vote for the Benny Hill party if their policy was a controlled Grexit.

The next day will be like the last. All talk no action. Everyone looking towards everyone else to do something, with no one doing anything. I am keen to be proven wrong. I see no meaningful changes and a 4th bailout in 3 years. I see XA getting 10% of the vote at the next election.