athinaios
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Posts posted by athinaios
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It doesn't matter what they were singing. It was a heroic action only Greeks were capable of.
Ah, those Souliotes. Interesting bunch. Do you know they were paid by lord Byron and threatened to quit fighting for the revolution when he was late paying them? They visited him at his sick bed and threatened him with bodily harm if he didn't come up with their ..money! It must have been those Souliotes who were Albanians (and didn't speak Greek),
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Ninis tore Roma because he wasn't expected to! When he's expected to do something he falters. He's not a leader. He could very well be a good asset for PAO if the team begins to play better and has a couple other leaders.
Not all players have to be leaders or have the ability to turn a game, but in the right scheme Ninis can be helpful for a team like PAO.
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First, with this kind of play, we don't deserve anything better. No matter who was in the lineup for a team like PAO should be able to dispatch Panthra who hadn't won a home game this season and has the worst offense (bad defense too).
As for Ninis, he's not a leader. I remember back when he was called the Greek Mesi! ;) Anyway, I think Ninis does better when there are a couple other leaders on a team. And, if I remember correctly, he does better on a ..better team not a bad team or when the team isn't performing well. By himself, he doesn't make the difference.
As far as this result goes, nothing is lost now. All was lost last summer, and if there was something left that was lost before the non-derby. Now it's the playoffs and the cup.
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For me, Alafouzos is ignorant of football and managing a club like PAO. However, if it weren't for him, PAO would have followed AEK to 3rd division. And, it's not like he stole the club from someone else who wanted to invest big $$. It was almost criminal what Tzigger had done to the club, not protecting the team for the money he had. Unfortunately, PAO was a ..toy given to him by the family. The last insult was to deal with Tsakas.... Oh, maybe it was Votanikos?.. <_<
Then we had the big shots who, yes, spent $100 mil and got the double, but when they left, the club was in debt. Alafouzos still pays players from years ago. And, he was good in negotiating with them for paying them in installments.
OK. If true, Ala's $23 mil. may not be enough for some people, but no matter what the actual number may be, Alafouzos has not made money with PAO. It may be Pateras who's helping out these days. (I don't know Ala's financial base). So, where's anyone else who cares about PAO and has the financial ability to raise this club's fortunes????
In a perfect world, investors/owners might be interested in PAO, but who would nowadays? when the league is so corrupt, the gap between the rich Euro teams and the rest is huge and increasing? Look at gavros, with $20 mil from CL a year, after year, and a wealthy owner and can't do much in Europe. What is it that PAO could do better? Honestly can you tell me? Please don't say,.. ah the history.... Well history is in the past and its the curse of Greece--always looking back not ahead. And, I doubt any of our players really knows or cares about the club's history.
Greece missed an opportunity to revamp it's league after Euro 2004. It may be too late now. We've been saying this for years, that a sport in a modern country has to be entertaining to attract fans given the competition for a person's time out there in the last 15-20 years!. People over 40 know a time when there weren't social media, or lots of ways to spend one's time, so sports was a domain of great interest.
We may be rabid fans but we are also a diminishing group. Most Greeks have turned away from football. Games turned out to be opportunities for violence (and I don't care who starts it), and crappy spectable, so people don't go to see games and they don't watch games on tv either. Do you think this can change? How? I mean given the reality in Greece....
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I don't know Alafouzos' ability to spend (not his worth, but his cash in hand), but Pateras and Tzigger were and are very rich. Therefore, I blame them for leaving the club in such a financial ruin. Also, that they didn't use their power to control the Oly owners. Very bad management too. Under Pateras, they spent more that $100 mil, but today the club has to pay David a former player who did nothing for us (from the Pateras era) $800 thou. as CAS has ruled. :tdown:
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The problem isn't really that poor people are going to richer countries to better their lives but cultural differences. So, the question is how to best integrate them into the culture of the host country. Once a country makes the decision to accept immigrants (and usually the advanced countries need new blood), then the key is, in my opinion, to show the new arrivals that another way of life--that of the host country--is better. With a better life, people begin to change their views and practices. The more isolation of minorities within a country, the worse it is as ghettos maintain the resistance to integrate and foster extremism. It turns into a vicious cycle.
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Oh, we have too many winged rats (pigeons) around here too. They must die, along with Canadian geese, European starlings, sparrows, and deer. I know the last one aren't birds, but when we start the culling they should be included.
Peace.
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Shhhhhhh. Be quiet. Nobody likes this stuff.
Certain topics cannot be discussed, because they invariably turn into:
- who did the worst or who started it first (no limit how far back you can go); once this is established, then the other side(s) have a reason to excuse everything that followed, no matter how bad it seems....
- tribalism dictates that "the others" are sub-human, increadibly stupid, and their culture sucks.
- throw in some conspiracy and magical thinking
- sex! oh, yeah! The best defenders of the historical truth, fighters for god, team, and country, happen to also think that they're great F***ers.. and, who apparently want to demonstrate how right they are by wanting to F*** their opponents! :1eye:
- the glory of the ancestors curse.... (can you guess this one?)
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Accor6, buddy, you tend to always find another bad situation or a bad example to give cover to bad behavior. Your method has been perpetuating this idiocy in Greek sports for way too long now. And, I'm defining "idiocy" as doing the same thing over and over expecting different results!...
An eye for an eye, and soon people are blind. Perhaps for some people victory means to be the last man standing ontop of the rubble. Whatever...
I'd be happy to talk about the injustice in the US, but how would that be the guide as to whether destruction of public & private property plus endagering human lives should take place??
Further, there's a big difference between civil rights violations/abuses and incompetence/corruption in a particular sport. This is not like picking up arms to defend the country against an invading army.
I'm sorry to see you advocating violence as the solution here. I'm not a pacifist, but I don't consider violence as the best way for action all the time and everywhere! I can have an argument in a civilized way, and as a consumer I can boycot businesses and sports leagues, and whatever else I think it's corrupt.
As to pulling pants down, I find this rather immature. I don't think using sexual inuendos or sexual analogies makes any argument stronger. Sorry, mate, but I expect more maturity here.
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I get why people are disgusted by favoritism, corruption and treated unfairly by the state. Still, no one has the license to destroy private and public property and threaten people's lives. This includes the incompetent police and those who are in charge of law and order.
This bullshit is endemic of Greek society and must stop. In the end, it's Greeks hurting Greeks and the country (including its image), more so than anyone else outside Greece.
Frankly, if nobody bothered to show up for 1 year, I bet you none of this bullshit would be going on today. Same with a lot of other stuff in politics. Who elects those crooks and who believes their crap? But, in a way, it's become the culture of modern Greece to complain about everything, believe in magical solutions, being selfish, while no one really wants to fix things by changing themselves first.
I'm disgusted by what's going because I care, but I'm also disgusted by the small-mindedness of so many people. It's a culture that has to change.
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This is a great place to be, because, no matter what, the team wil have several euro games left. The gap between the rich teams and the rest is very wide. Only by some miracle lesser teams can break through. Yes, you'll make good money getting to the 16 for 2 games, but realistically that would be it. In the Europa you probably play more that 2 games, so even if the money is less you get more games and showcasing your brand in a greater market. This also gives incentives to good players to come to Oly and this shitty Greek league.
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Corruption (as the thread's title) isn't the only problem. Incompetence is the other. The sport (soccer) has been destroyed in Greece and too many people only care how to get revenge against their opponents of all sorts.
Greek police and those who are in change of public safety are criminally incompetent. 99% of the resident citizens have their lives and their properties damaged because of sports violence.
Here are a few short videos of someone discussing the way the police was used. Incredible.
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This kind of violence hurts the teams, the particular sport, and the fans. So, let's see, PAO will now have to pay $100,000 to fix Leoforos, ontop of whatever fines from the league, possible points deductions, etc.
Berg and others are disgusted by this and now want to leave. I wouldn't be surprised if they do so in January.
I was hanging out with a couple friends on Saturday to watch the Real-Barca game, but I was sneaking peeks into the PAO-Oly game situation. It was embarrassing. Outsiders see the situation as we would see it if such events were happening in a Third World country, dismissing the idiocy of the people involved as primitive and uncivilized. Well, are they right? :huh:
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Me too. Kung Pao Chicken. :D
PAISIOS SAID THIS WOULD HAPPEN ON A TUESDAY.... (so, he couldn't wait for Wednesday)
Oh, yeah, I forgot. Fortune cookies are the best :blink:
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It's actually very easy. I'd call some of the hard core fans (those who are ready to do ..jihad for their team) and ask them to wear Arsenal colors and then attack & destroy everything and everyone in sight..... :lol: :lol: :la:
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What is the ancestors' influence? Genetic? Cultural? Myths?
In other words, are we bound to do or be like our ancestors?
Culture, which includes indoctrination of people, makes them who they are. Of course, there are exceptions that break off the mold, but most people follow and aren't interested in the facts if the facts (and history) make them uncomfortable.
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My tarot card/plam reader is more accurate. And, who can forget Nostradamus? He predicted everything, everything I tell you.
tsk :1eye:
Anyway, today, both countries are downplaying the incident. Turkey apologized. Russia said no retaliation other than tell Russians not to visit Turkey.
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Bananas, in the US and many other countries the perpetrators are dealt directly. They're arrested, charged, and processed. They face fines and ban from the game. Soon, people get the message that they can't do whatever they want even if they're frustrated for whatever reason. In result is that 99% of the rest of the fans enjoy the game, plus there's less damage to private and public property.
But, I agree with your observations. However, if they really wanted to solve this ridiculous problem there are ways...
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PAO will be called to the sports judge on Wed Nov 25th to explain or plea its case after the police and ref reports are now submitted to the league.
I've been thinking, why should my team (say I'm the owner of a team) should be punished because some fans, even if they wear my team's colors, breake the law? I'm not in control of them. I take reasonable precautions inside the sports venue, but why should I responsible for law & order outside? It's the job of the police or whomever.
Now, if I was the owner, I'd install metal detectors (cheaper than the fines and the bans and the damages to the facilities), and screen every bag, even pat down everyone who enters. Further, I'd ban those convicted of any violence or unsportsmanlike behavior. Nowadays, with technology all this is possible.
I'd make sure the game is played in a civilized atmosphere and would allow families with kids to attend a safe event. I would admit supporters of the opposing team, though initially I'd seperate those who wear colors.
*** I understand that for some people their identity, their purpose is a sports team, but they have to understand they will not be allowed to destroy my team. They would not allow to destroy the experience for the vast majority of the fans. Those who get off with violence, destruction, and mayhem, will not have a place in the stadium. They can go to a bar or wherever to fight with other idiots.
It's amazing to me that after serious violent events just a handful of people get arrested. I wonder how many are repeat offenders. This has to stop. Unless a team is knowingly allowing hooligans to run the show, no club should be punished for the bad behavior that should have been controlled by the monopoly of legitimate force a society has.
Oh, and as the gov, I'd ban the organized fan clubs if there's evidence they've turned into a base for hooliganism. I'd bet that most of those members really care about their club (mafia style) and not the team, because it's rather evident, the "organized" fans mostly hurt the team they supposed to support.
***This is analogous to this forum. The few who thrive on mayhem and destructive behavior aren't allowed to destroy our experience here. I think 95% of our regular members and posters here are great. I thank you for helping making this forum a nice place to hang out and talk. Cheers. :tup:
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Sorry, but this is the 21st century guys... Do you still believe in prophecies? That guy might have led a saintly life but no one can predict the future. Well, I actually take this back.... I predict that I'll have Chinese food for dinner! :lol:
Anyway, back to the topic... I'm not sure Turkey shot down a Russian warplane by orders of the gov. The violation isn't a serious one to warrant such an action. Turkey would be risking too much in my opinion without a clear benefit. Of course, the wild card could be Erdogan who's a magalomaniac like Putin.
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Which team could have played Bayern and done well tonight?
Unfortunately, the gap between the very rich teams (like Arsenal) and the rest of is getting wider. A few million euros difference in the budget probably isn't the determining factor, but the gap is in the many tens of millions. The half a dozen big teams can spend for 1 player as another team spends for an entire roster. Even in Greece it's evident, when, for example, Indeye costs more than the budget of entire teams.
Greece is a small market with weak teams. And, the way the whole situation is no one would invest. Don't be surprised in Berg leaves in January.
Greece missed a golden opportunity to turn things around and become like Portugal, another small country like Greece, but with a few teams that go far in Euro play. The opportunity was in 2004 and the immediate years after that. But, a corrupt, unfair system destroyed soccer in the country.
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Look, such games are expected, that's why you take care of the other games, as Oly has done so far. It'll come down to the game at Karaiskaki, which actually it's a great thing. Let the best team go forward.
But, don't expect Arsenal to be the same team you beat in the first leg.
Unfortunately, the gap between the very rich teams (like Arsenal) and the rest of is getting wider. A few million euros difference in the budget probably isn't the determining factor, but the gap is in the many tens of millions. The half a dozen big teams can spend for 1 player as another team spends for an entire roster. Even in Greece it's evident, when Indeye costs more than the budget of entire teams.
As for your game against Arsenal, I don't know what the best strategy would be. Try to not lose or try to score at least once? Tonight, I thought your defense didn't do well, not because of the 4 but too many mistakes. If this is repeated, Arsenal will plenty of chances to score. I think you should demonstrate power; they must respect you (and fear you) since you beat them at their home. If you appear weak, they'll step all over you.
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So, if Greece shot down a Turkey airplane when it enters Greek airspace would be OK?
Just saying, 'cause many wrote in these forum in the past that's exactly what Greece should have done.
This can play out in many ways. Turkey hasn't exactly been going along with the West in the Middle East, especially against ISIL.What Turkey has had as an advantage since WW1 is its border with Russia, so a long as Russia is considered a western foe, Turkey's role & location is important to the west.
Infelices infantilismos
in Let's talk about this
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Well, well, whatever makes me feel good is right, historical, and obvious superior to anyone's experience.
The Souliotes--a fiercely independent people--worked as mercenaries for many, and jumping camps was not unusual. Much like most people did during the Byzantine days.
The Souliotes were considered as a buffer between the Ottomans and the Ionion islands occupied then by various western powers. I think they worked for the French at some point, They worked for Ali Pasha of Ioaninna too, but that was a wrong decision...
The idea of getting paid for fighting wars is interesting. Someone may even say that if money was the prime motivator then where was the "nationalistic" fervor, you know, patriotism?