athinaios
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Posts posted by athinaios
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Not sure if that's in response to me, but I never mentioned the destruction of capitalism, nor did I pinpoint one single person for the downfall in American, and in general, western democracy.
What I said is not bumper-sticker statements or a broad statement. If you just look up the amount of lobbyists, and how much money is handed out in order to gain in economic or political influence than you would know that its not simply a "bumper-sticker statement" or a "broad slogan"
You don't have to agree with my belief about the American public's effect on the political scene in America. I have seen from your posts that we won't ever agree and that's totally fine. But calling someone's post a bumper sticker statement, a "broad slogan, pee-conceived narrative" seems a bit off considering there's no constructive criticism. It's just a "I don't agree with you, so I'm going to call your post broad, and bumper sticker slogan like".
Anyways, it is true that America does have one of the highest corporate taxes in the world, (in fact America had the 3rd highest in the world) and the largest of any OECD (Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development) nation which is probably why we have seen American Industry dwindle over time, and which is why many American companies have off shored their working forces.
Also, as to your Forbes magazine point, and how people want to repeat the argument like parrots, first, Forbes magazine does not represent the opinion of all, the republican party in this country does not speak for everyone's concerns, and why would anyone want to repeat a story of failed policies? I would love to be saying American policies have led everyone to higher living standards, more money in the bank, more cars in the driveway, etc., but I can't and it's just not an Obama thing either.
My opinions are my own, not from Forbes magazine.
Friend,
You followed my post by saying, " I voted that our votes don't really matter because lobbyists pretty much control Washington DC. I personally think lobbyists have ruined this country because major corporations have now grabbed control over the political scene with their monetary prowess.
America, and must of the west has completely lost its way when it comes down to the meaning of democracy. And I essentially believe that the general public is just along for the ride while corporate interests/crooked politicians conduct some of the worst domestic/foreign policies aided by the millions of dollars they receive in donations."
So I called you on your broad statement, that sounds like a bumper sticker. (see your first sentence). Your second statement is equally broad and, in my view, fails to explain reality. Because, as the Forbes example demonstrates, reality (in my view) is very different. Just look around with open eyes. I won't repeat the points I made, but within the corruption, the huge influence of the big corporations and rich donors, there are notable benefits, some of them increasing--and this is why this election is crucial because it does matter who the next president is. If you want to have an effective corporate tax rate of 7% or less, well vote accordingly. If you want the market to do better, for strengthening the middle class (I assume it includes you) with higher incomes and less taxation, then don't vote for the GOP. If you want consumer protection, science, education, environment, etc...
In your simplistic way of looking at the world, you miss reality. If you think this is offensive (me saying so), well so be it. Let me make it clear: I respect your right to freedom of expression and however you want to feel about everything. Unfortunately while communicating through written barrages often seems very threatening or disrespectful.
People have rights, ideas don't. I can respect the person's rights but I can ridicule their ideas. I'm sorry if you can't distinguish these two. All of us make judgments about all sorts of things everyday. Having the right to free expression does not buy immunity from criticism nor buys credibility.
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So, I was reading Forbes magazine the other day, and everyone was complaining that Obama has practically destroyed capitalism. I hear Repubs saying we have the highest corporate taxes in the world, that the free market is no more, etc. On the other side we have views like yours that also promote a very distorted (and thus false) reality, because it fits with a pee-conceived narrative--the story people like to hear and repeat like parrots.
And, that's the problem when trying to have a discussion with people who converse by using bumper-sticker statements and broad slogans. It's tiresome to have to start every conversation by starting with square one: If A is not B, and B=C, the A is not C. :huh: It's usually also a waste of time because such persons have no interest in amending their views, nor learning how to analyze, synthesize, and theorize. *
...
* I know, Socrates was a pain in the ass; good thing they democratically got rid of that prick.
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It's changing... like smoking; everybody did it because everybody else did... Scandinavian countries consider the practice as child abuse.
There are studies that show C may reduce AIDS transmission and in populations with poor hygiene it can help reduce infections.
In advanced societies, C isn't as beneficial and it deprives the individual of choice whether to have the procedure.
However, it's like recommending pulling your teeth out to avoid teeth rot and heart infections
Here's a great Hitch video on the subject
Obviously, it's mostly cultural and religious. If the Hellenized Jews had won the Jewish civil war, C may have died out as they didn't practice it. The Maccabees won and quickly established conservative Judaism and eliminated Hellenic cultural influences.
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My beef with many posters here is that they fail to see multi-causality and generally the complexities of issues/people.
For example, the only thing you need to know is whether Tzatziki stole something, cheated, lied. Therefore if he has, he's a really bad person who should burn in hell. I, on the other hand, think that the reality is more complex, and over all he's a decent guy.
Same with the US political system. Perhaps all you need to know is that Obama is a communist Muslim from Kenya, therefore anything he does is to undermine this country. Same with your topic of elections, money in politics, and voting.
Is big money influencing elections? Absolutely. Do candidates and parties go to big donors and listen to what the money sources want? Sure. Maybe that's all you need to know to dismiss the notion that voting does not matter. I, on the other hand, think it matters a lot, more than most people realize--especially the people who float from party to party.
Some points to ponder:
- does it matter who is on the Supreme Court? Obviously Dems and Repubs nominate opposite judges
- does it matter whether there's social security, national parks, net neutrality, public education and health care, consumer protection, the environment, etc, etc?
- does it matter if the president believes the earth is only 5,000 years old, wants to merge church-state, is anti-science, etc?
- does it matter whether the middle class does better or worse? Does it matter that it pays more in taxes than billionaires? does it matter which party causes huge recessions and the Great Depression?
- does it matter whether a man-child with bad temper becomes president?
- and to your point, who is more likely to push for campaign finance reform, including overturning "Citizens United" supreme court decision that allowed unlimited $$ into politics? (oh, yeah, the supreme court is at stake too in this election)
I could go on, but you get the point. Different candidates and political parties have different agendas and have steered the country in certain directions. So, now, get your ass out there and vote :box:
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Well, if religion informs your reality, then you end up doing and believing crazy sh*t from the superstitions of the Stone Age.
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Whatever....
I'm still trying to figure out if Soros, an American-Hungarian Jew, is for or against Israel. And, is he for or against national states, and for/against the EU....
You guys are all over the place.
Soros is just one player among many.
What's next, that he'll decide the next US election? :1eye:
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Soros is Jewish... B)
Just to remind you that the earth isn't flat.... and there are complexities if you care to look....
Are you joking that the violence around Trump is due to the Soros-MoveOn radicalism?
And, thank you for the laugh about the militarized police dpts all over the US will be powerless to act upon several ISIS strikes..... It must be the Obama socialist/communist cabal that is weakening the police everywhere so the feds will come in and establish a dictatorship. That's why they're taking guns from people and are destroying the 2nd Amendment. :1eye:
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1789: your assertions include unproved allegations. You may disagree about policy, and decisions made by Obama but why do you rely on silly conspiracies to prove your point? Which, by the way, what is it?
That Obama has been helping ISIL, explicitly and covertly?
That Obama is a hidden communist? When exactly is he going to establish communism, next December?
#4...are you sure about your claims? And, what ridiculous thing to say that Putin sought approval..... Yeah, like Saddam got approval by his parliament to invade Kuwait...
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double wow....
You begin to sound like Trump....
What is exactly criminal (in a legal sense that would warrant imprisonment) in Hillary's past? Be specific, not you hate her policies, bad decisions, pant suits, laughter, whatever... She's no angel by far, but she and her husband are the most investigated political couple ever. Republicans in Congress spend $20+ mil investigating Benghazi and the emails. Same with the FBI, and the hounds of Faux News. Are all conspiring to let her get away? It's ludicrous, but that's what comes out of your observations...
Obama was given a wrecked economy, which was losing 800,000 jobs a month. Here's a car, all smashed up, and once you get the key I start complaining at your ineptitude to get it running perfectly, without spending any money on repairs of course! For all the onerous Republican projections that Obama's policies would destroy the economy, the opposite has happened in spite of Republicans in Congress sabotaging everything.
The debt has to be considered as a % of the economy. The world's money is flowing to the US, buying US T-bills and debt, often at record low interest rates, and, even negative interest! I wonder why anyone would buy such IOUs from a country they don't trust..... hmmmm By the way, you're also wrong about Detroit. It's was not destroyed by Obama. Bailed out GM is the world's #1 seller of cars. The auto industry (car makers and thousands of other attached businesses) was bailed out, and as with banks, the US treasury made money after bailout debt was repaid. It's was a strategic decision to keep alive the automobile industry alive. As for the banks, Bush initiated the bailout with no strings attached, Obama continued and tried to regulate Wall Street. Both parties have received money from WS and have strong ties to this sector. But, unlike Putin, Obama didn't imprison his political adversaries, his billionaire enemies, or closed news media and arrested reporters critical of him.
Apparently, you don't understand how the US political system works if you keep asserting that Obama, or any president, has the unchecked powers Putin has. All the cases you offer in support of your argument prove exactly the opposite of your thesis. Of course the president has powers, but he can't raise or spend a penny without Congress. Your second paragraph has a cyclical argument that relies on bad logic and evidence.
As for democracy, elections, etc. Let me repeat myself: dictators can be popular and may be elected by majorities. When the Roman republic died, elections kept taking place, but the citizens were electing dictators who only promised to protect the properties of citizens and provide law & order. Thomas Hobbes in his Leviathan (17th c.) argues that people have natural rights but in order to protect life and property willing give up all freedom to the benevolent dictator. Many societies have done precisely this.
In Russia today, most people don't care about liberal freedoms, like free press, tolerance and diversity. After all, Russia has never known democracy or has been influenced by the Enlightenment. They care about nationalism, consumer goods, and strong authoritarian leadership. When Putin goes into Ukraine, takes, Crimea, meddles in the Middle East, he's got overwhelming popular support. When Obama, for example, meddles in Syria, Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq, all hell breaks loose and there are a dozen factions including public opinion pulling in different directions. He wants to sign international treaties and the Senate objects.
Let us not forget how this dictator (Obama) wants to shape the Supreme Court (under his authority under the US constitution) and he can't even get his nominee a hearing at the Senate. Have you heard about this?.... :la:
[ps. don't click on this link]
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wow, man, even those not familiar with US politics realize that the US suffers from too much of dispersal of power, hence the 3 branches of government (two of which, Congress and Presidency are controlled by two opposite parties). If you really think Putin and Obama operate with same impunity and control of their countries then there's nothing reasonable one can say to change your mind. I hope you haven't taken the magic potion of Faux News...
Yes, there some Americans who believe Obama is the worst dictator, not born in the US, and who wants to take their guns away, help ISIL and the Muslim theocracies, while promoting radical socialism (maybe communism). Right?
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There are several things here, so let's separate them.
- Greece has not been able to successfully and efficiently run their own affairs, including the economy since 1821. Entry into the EU was rushed, partly on fake numbers Greece gave the EU, partly to forge a union with a common currency (monetary policy) but with dozens of different national economic policies. The drachma was exchanged at much higher value than warranted too. Many Greeks felt rich almost overnight.
- Many Euros got tired of Greece's behavior, especially the newly elected Syriza's rhetoric and amateurish stance. It was punishment time. Since the 1980s, Greece thought it was smarter and could fool the EU. Payback was almost natural when the Greek state went bankrupt.
- The austerity package was badly planned and implemented. It has turned many Euros (for different reasons) against the EU. Extreme parties became stronger (not a good thing either). Greece became a lab animal on life support and with no recovery in sight
- Greece remains badly managed by her own leaders! Let's say I was rich enough to pay off all of Greece's debt. So no more crazy austerity or capital controls. Is anyone confident here or anywhere to assure me that this mess would not happen again?...
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Serbia and Milosevic were cleared of directing or organizing the ethnic cleansing, but not so fast....
However, the president of the International Court of Justice (ICJ) did state that it was ""conclusively proved" that the Serbian leadership, and Milosevic in particular, "were fully aware ... that massacres were likely to occur, and in violation of international law, did nothing to prevent them. This is more damning since the Serbian government had influence with the Bosnian Serbs (Mladic, Karadzic, etc)
By the way, dictators can be elected and have the support of the public, especially in times of crisis, and ultra-nationalism. Putin and Erdogan come to mind...
Some people place a higher premium on supporting anything connected to their identity than the facts. Serbs=Xtian, Orthodox.. (v. Catholics, Muslisms), therefore Greeks and Serbs are brothers. Tsk.
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How much is to rent one of those apartments overlooking the stadium? B) It might be cheaper than the season tickets...
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Did you guys hear about lending the stadium to PAS for their euro game?
PAO said offered to help PAS, and announced it, but when some fans objected management took back the offer.
What do you think about it? Should a Greek team help another that's playing a Euro game?
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So, an unstable Turkey will make Greece stronger. Huh! Who knew?...So, Greece will gain territory? Money? Influence? Maybe the US and NATO will have Greece as the base of operations instead of Turkey. That's what you want? [is Tsipras like Andreas? "
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You say, "pushed us more".... I don't doubt your estimate, but do you know anyone who was thinking of voting Remain and then said, oh, this guy Obama pissed me off and now I'll vote Brexit... I just don't see it. The net result probably was no net effect. Now, I could see it if George W. Bush and Tony Blair said it... :lol:
I'd agree the murder pushed a few people to vote Remain. But, think about it... why should such a thing do it? Any crazy person can do crazy things; it's not rational to change your vote based on such act. Whether remaining or leaving the EU should be determined by other factors, if voters weighted the facts carefully.
Most people are compelled and vote by identity politics. It's the story they tell themselves about themselves and their tribe, and then act upon this story. It's mostly emotional and the facts don't get in the way. Britons, Americans, Greeks, etc all do it. The lack of factual information is stunning.
"I'm not like that" I hear you're saying now. OK. I didn't say "all people" but most...
Europeans have to figure out what Europe means and what being a European means. Likewise with sections withing a country. Integration happens when most people accept a narrative ("the story") and see themselves as belonging to a particular tribe.
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And, I say, the Brexit vote was going to win by 8 points but Obama made it much closer than that!. Who's right, Farage or I?.... :cw:
In my estimate what Obama said didn't make the slightest difference. Why would it? It's a European matter. In some sense the US could argue against a united Europe....
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This was a very bad thing for Turkey as it allows Erdogan to be more dictatorial and imperial, which is not good for Greece. A lot of people died and more will because of this, dare I say, amateurish coup. I'm not supporting military coups by the way....
Thousands of judges, officials, real and imagined enemies of the current government are fired or arrested within hours of this coup. Those lists of "undesirables" (political enemies or critics of Erdogan) were made before the coup. The state institutions and others, also the news media, will further be controlled by the authoritarian ruler now.
Democracy isn't always desirable or even understood by many peoples. Turkey and Russia are such examples. The authoritarian rulers enjoy popular support. This coup failed in part because Erdogan has the support of a large mass of Turks. Nowadays the social media make it possible to mobilize people. Controlling the traditional news media isn't enough.
Another effect will be that Turkey can forget joining the EU for decades now.... What? Who wants to be in the EU? :la: :whistle:
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It's over. A badly organized coup and a miserable failure. Even though I think Erdogan is a maniacal dictator and I wouldn't be upset if he was deposed, I don't think military coups are the way. But, not only the planning was bad, they miscalculated the reaction of the people and even within the armed forces. Frankly if there were elements who might have supported a coupe against Erdogan, they wouldn't risk their lives unless the coup would seem to be successful. If the leadership, especially the prez and pm and some other key power heads aren't arrested, usually there's no chance for a coup to succeed.
Further, let's assume the challengers were honest in wanting to "restore democracy", did they realize that if they failed Erdogan would emerge even more of an brutal authoritarian? He now has an excuse for more retribution against his enemies, including those who had nothing to do with this coup....
Amateurs... I can hear some Greeks saying "the colonels" knew how to make a successful coup!
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.Some of the passages I would like edited out are the following:
Quran (5:51) - "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people."
Quran (3:28) - "Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them..."
Quran (9:23) - "O ye who believe! Choose not your fathers nor your brethren for friends if they take pleasure in disbelief rather than faith. Whoso of you taketh them for friends, such are wrong-doers.''
Quran (3:10) - "(As for) those who disbelieve, surely neither their wealth nor their children shall avail them in the least against Allah, and these it is who are the fuel of the fire."
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And, who are you to edit the word of God?..
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Anyway, I think France will win big on Sunday, unless by some accident Portugal scores first.
What's the matter guys, don't you like how Santos has this team playing?
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Hahahhaa... I'm getting rusty... Though I thought of merging the two topics and having the last laugh.....
As for the joke, it's an old one but very funny. However, in the Greek contest..... where everyone drives like crazy, you'd be ..crazy to be driving by obeying the rules ;)
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Can't believe no one has interest in this topic. :la:
I watched several games, some exciting some very boring. Anyway, the latest was Portugal - Wales and Germany - France. I liked them both, but the teams who controlled most of the game lost. Portugal has not impressed me for reaching the final. Yes, Ronaldo can and has changed outcomes by doing 1 good thing in a game, but for the team's talent they're horrible in my opinion.
On the other hand, Germany had 70% possession and did nothing. Their 2-3 good opportunities came after they're were down 2-0.
What do you think of the final game, France - Portugal?
US Election reform
in Let's talk about this
Posted
Well, first we have to define what an "independent" voter is. Roughly the country is divided into 3 thirds; Dems a bit more, R's and I's a few % less. This is how people self-identify. But the US has been increasingly polarizing. The majority of the I's (who may also have not chosen a pol party when they register to vote*) are leaners. They have strong views on main issues, like abortion, church-state, education, environment, immigration, etc. So they tend to vote based on these views.
Then there's 10-15% of floaters who are very low information and highly impressionable and will vote for personalities, swinging wildly from one party to next. They often determine elections, but they don't have high participation numbers (in the US voting is not compulsory). So, the 5% that floats and votes plus turnout of a party's base is what determines elections.
*Most states require voters to pick a party if they want to participate in that party's primary/selection process for choosing nominees. Trump's children hadn't picked Republican so they couldn't vote for their father in the NYS primary. In the general election any citizen can vote.... Unless certain states permanently revoke such right for convicted felons. (even after they're released)