athinaios
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Posts posted by athinaios
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One of the better chances we had to get near the CL. But the reality is there's not enough $$ to compete with the wealthier clubs in Europe. The top elite, 6-8 clubs, then there's the second tier of maybe another half a dozen, and the rest are the ..extras to fill the movie scene.
The money is astronomical nowadays and the gap is getting bigger. Hard to compete with others when you don't have the money plus a crappy domestic league. In many ways, if your competition gets better you look weaker.
Too bad that PAO didn't beat Brugge, but the Belgians although didn't show anything special have a much higher budget, better overall squad. I'll be happy if PAO becomes a serious club in the Europa league and starts kicking ass domestically.
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Grim Reaper.... so appropriate for the gavros forum! :D
Welcome and enjoy reaping! :rolleyes:
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I had to work so I missed the game. We kinda knew this team wasn't ready for the CL. It's the reality given the finances. Brugge has 3-5 times the budget we have. Now it's absolutely essential we beat the next euro team to qualify for the Europa. The team cannot afford to go home this early. Otherwise, I can see selling Karelis, even Berg, and set the sights for a decent show in the domestic league only.
Damn it. I hoped we could advance against Brugge so at least we had the Europa secured. :(
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For the investment PAO has made, they need to advance! They didn't sell Berg and Karelis while they spent $$ for transfers, so they must have a decent run in euro competition this season.
As for tomorrow's game, I still favor Brugge. I mean of course I want PAO to advance, but I fear they'll concede at least 1 goal so Brugge has the advantage. PAO has to score at least 1 over in Belgium. Hope PAO doesn't repeat the pattern of wasting the first half.
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Tsipras has a long history (since his student years) of Marxist ideology. Of course he could be pretending all along, but it probably means something to be lecturing on, arguing for, advocating Marist ideology. Now, what does this mean? Well, Marxism is like xtianity. [by the way, the notion of communism was articulated by Plato, and the early xtians were communists]. It can mean many different things. Some Marxists are on the left of social democrats. They operate withing a liberal democracy whose economic system is evolved capitalism. They don't advocate a violent transition to a communist state, like Leninists would.
There are no advanced communist countries today to align a smaller country like Greece with. Realistically, Tsipras realized exiting the eurozone would mean even worse conditions for Greece than the current draconian measures are creating. [China is not a communist country in practice; plus you wouldn't want to practice what China has in the last 20 years]
Please stop with Greek history as an argument why Greece is great today and why the country is important today.
If you rely on the distant past too much it means that you have nothing left to talk & do today.
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we got want we wanted a win,now they have to come at us ,we don't have to go at them,we can sit back......
Well, as many times in the past, PAO can concede an early goal. If this happens, it's PAO that will have to risk and it'll be a disaster as the team isn't ready yet, especially against a better put-together team like Brugge.
I saw too many amateurish mistakes yesterday, including the tough tackle by Sanchez (no way you do that in the midfield when there's not big threat; did he apologize yet?). Brugge will take advantage of our mental lapses in Belgium next week.
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But, why did our team waste most of first half? This is a very worrisome pattern continuing for far too long. We dropped too many points last season becasue they wasted one half. It's not easy to always have to dig themselves out of a hole.
Are the coach & players not prepared for their opponent? Haven't done their homework?
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Again, certain players should never start or play many minutes on this team.
If they play with no mental errors or silly mistakes, PAO can do very well this season.
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Great win. Congrats to PAO!
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Given the circumstances, we should hold on to the 2-1. It should have been 3-1. In the next game, PAO will be better and it'd be great to have a win in the pocket.
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"the grecians are our friends" .W
Dubya said this?
:lol: :lol:
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This was the best draw we could have gotten, but we're still the underdogs here. There's a tremendous pressure on our team & coach to advance to next round. I don't know how conservative Anastasiou will be. We have several new players and they seem to give up too many goals, most due to mental lapses.
Pao needs this more than anyone. Not only for the obvious psychological boost, but for bare financial reasons.
Anyway, I hope we do well, and I would take A's score, 3-1 :D
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Pap could score. Ajagun can't. I know he runs and marks a lot, but I wouldn't use him, except when the team is winning and want to keep the score. It's very frustrating to the players in a tight game when there aren't many opps to score that a player gets a nice chance and wastes it so badly. Demoralizing. I'd sell him.
I also agree with Grkfreezer above that Lod could be a gem we found and if healthy could have huge impact. Ninis should will take notice....
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For better or worse, Greece will stay in Europe, with a common currency in the forseeable future. There are many scenaria as to what should happen next, and some depend on the general economic outlook of the EuroZone, including the other countries in trouble.
If Tsipras delivers what the Euros want, and if he survives his party defections, and if he can mend bridges with certain leaders/countries, he can turn out to be very successful.***** Now there are lots of "ifs" here. One, the Euro leaders can easily destroy him by not being flexible with the terms.
But, it's more than obvious to all now that Greece's debt is way too big and therefore unpayble. Merkel says no reduction of the amount (no haircut) just longer terms and lower rates.
IF trust between EZ and Greece is repaired, and if there's an Athens gov that can implement the promised, and most needed reforms, Europe will have to trim the debt (haircut), forgive some obligations, and make no-insterest loans. It's ONLY the EZ countries that are still willing to lend to Greece now. [other countries are NOT willing to do so; forget Russia, China, US, whomever]
What many people fail to recognize is that when you negotiate with other parties they don't have to see it your way. Many of us disagree here about everything. But, when you need money you can't go to the bank and tell them they're a bunch of nazis (they may be), that their terms are outrageous, shame on them, etc. Once you decide you want to be in the bank's club and want its money, you have to be diplomatic and play game with the parameters and the people involved. This is politics, diplomacy. The art of the possible!
Before you say (as many of you have said it repeatedly) exit the EZ, please remember that many leaders of parties that represent close to 85% of the voters since 2008 have opted to stay in the EZ. Why? Are they all bought out? Are the apologists for some dark masters? [as someone accused me of being one] In my opinion it's because they all agreed it may be really bad but the alternative is worse!
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*****How I measure success?
- implement needed reforms; the country will benefit from them. (we all agree they're needed but no previous govs dared to do so)
- if he has the ability to be diplomatic, he can show the Euros that Greece is turning a page; he took a tremendous political risk but delivered as no PM had done before!
- Europe will have to decide that it's a big family and once it has responsible governments, then the remaining Greek debt can be written off on the premise that the Greek state isn't producing deficits and in on same page with advanced western countries. ie. A US state cannot declare bankruptcy. The Feds step in.
- These benefits can (and will have to) be felt by the Greek society before this gov's term in over. So, Tsipras (maybe not with Syriza as it is now) can be reelected and enjoy a long successful career with a name like Venizelos or the old Karamanlis, or Trikoupis, and a few others.
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Look everybody has difficult stretches. We're talking about the same think in the PAO section. The league has relatively few teams, and I heard that on purpose they don't want to have big-team games the first couple weeks of the new season. There aren't that many weeks available.
We'll see each other on the 8th week. I think gavroi are not going to be as strong this new season as the last one. I think PAO will be a contender and hopefully PAOK, but you guys choked last year. 5 points clear of gavroi and having beaten them at their home.... and then finished horribly!
For my team, I don't mind the big games bunched together. These pros should not get tired. Actually big games should focus their minds. Injuries are a factor but they can happen all the time. The problem with our 2 teams is that they drop too many points where they shouldn't (with lesser teams). PAO is notorious for this. If the league had only the top 5-6 teams, PAO would have won it comfortably last year.
Anyway, good luck to you.
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I think they do try to avoid the derbies in the first couple weeks so the teams are more ready to play at full strength later. If this is true, with relatively few teams in the league it's bound to have a string of big matches later on because there aren't that many matches.
In the difficult stretch, we have PAOK (away), AEK (at home), Atromitos (away), Oly (home). If we field a better team than last year--and by the 8th week we should know--I don't see why we can't beat PAOK, AEK, and gavroi. The last two we have them at home, and we beat Paok 4 times last year, rather convincingly. Atromitos has given us the most trouble actually. But, I think gavroi and Paok (?) will be our main competitors. I don't think AEK will be contenting during their first year back. Atromitos won't either. Paok, well, they always choke.
This coming season may be the most promising for PAO in many years. I don't think Oly will be stronger; on the contrary. We were the better side on both games we played last season.
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So, what's the next day going to be like? Don't you think that the traditional big-party blocks (left-right, whatever) may be transformed given the circumstances? Traditionally, 2 big parties got 80% of the vote, but can't do this anymore. Or, will they do again in the near future? Both left and right had the chance to govern. Both have had their own problems and both didn't manage to solve Greece's problems.
By the way, it can be argued that if you take the rhetoric and the ideology (that only few party loyalists fully understand), all parties have used the state (and expanded it) to favor their own clientelle. Same fundamental policies, protecting special interests, inefficiency, and over-burdening the free market. I'm not saying that capitalism shouldn't be regulated, but there is a difference between oversight/regulation and strangulation. It's like capitalism was introduced to Greece but it wasn't understood!
Likewise with the other liberal principles of democracy and individual liberty that came out of the Enlightenment. [it's not to be confused with neo-liberalism or neo-conservatism]. These include separation of church-state, individual conscience & choice, etc. In some ways, Greece is still trying to figure out its place.
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If the club is ready and focused, I don't see why they can't get all points until the 8th week. That's 21 points! And, it'd be great if PAO starts the derbys with those points in the bag. Weeks 8-12 are very difficult, and ontop of that hopefully there will be euro games too.
Interesting statistic from last year, and not unlike years in the past: We lost the title not because we drop points during the big games but because we waste them on lesser teams. :ph34r: Actually PAO would be a clear champion if only competed against the top 5-7 teams in the league! (based on the earned points in those games only)
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Seems like you're an apologist for the very people who are carving up Greece for their own ends.
Darn, I have to admit, the money is good, and since Greece has no money right now, I sold my soul to the dark forces that want to destroy Greece. :lol: -_-
I wonder how much longer will it take for my patrons to destroy Greece? They're at it since 1821.... My advice to them is, don't destroy it, own it. And, if history is a guide, Greeks will help you do it, gaddamit.
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Apparently we see things quite differently. Merkel and some others wanted to kick Greece out that's why they humiliated Tsipras and made even worst offers than in previous months. Like telling someone it's time to leave, hoping they'd leave. But, Tsipras didn't.
You, and many of our compatriots, have to get off the self-delusion bandwagon: we're so great, we have so many assets, we are so important, everyone wants to control us because.. whatever, blah, blah. You know how many countries (and their people) make such claims? A dime a dozen.
The reality has been, since 1821, that Greece has heavily relied upon others to accomplish important milestones that had lasting consequences*. The exception was the Balkan wars in 1912-13. It's been a long history of bad governments & self-governance. Mistakes upon mistakes, only to have people say something like, "they hate us and that's why they want to control us."
*and now it appears that reorganizing and modernizing the Greek state is, again, in the hands of foreigners :gr:
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This is where the money will come from for the "next day" in Greece:
http://www.huffingtonpost.gr/2015/07/14/story-grafima-grexit-bank_n_7792066.html?utm_hp_ref=greece
One thing that has been missed by most Greeks, including some of our friends here, is that any agreement with bailout money means that some other EU countries (taxpayers) are asked to chip in. Private or other international lenders will NOT lend to Greece, because of the country being untrustworthy.
We can talk about the immorality of the interest and terms, but if you put yourself in such situation there's no national independence left.
The Greek gov under Tsipras played the tough guy (or a game of chicken), but miscalcuated. They believed the Europeans would never let Greece leave as this would unravel the EU.. They didn't understand that in the minds of euro leaders (who matter at this point) Greece was not a good club member and better be kicked out. You can not go negotiating with bravado in this reality.....
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Congrats guys. Thank you for helping out.
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The referendum was absolutely foolish. Another mistake by Tsipras. It was a democratic exercise in futility. No clear questions and most importantly the voters didn't vote for this deal? Or, did they?!
Actually it made things worse. Tsipras had been warned not to do it because the Euro leaders would not deal and would push to kick Greece out if an "Oxi" vote was the result. Plus, it wasted more time. Just the closure of the banks and capital limits have hurt the economy and everyone. :tdown:
I wonder how many Greeks who voted "NO" like this deal.
Europa Play-Offs PAO-Qabala 2nd leg 27/08/2015 21:00
in Panathinaikos FC
Posted
When PAO was falling like a rock, with huge deficits, and club & fan morale at its lowest, nobody, nobody of financial means stepped forward to save the club. None of the big fat asses who claim to be fanatic PAO fans. This is the fact. Alafouzos saved the club. He did tons of mistakes but you have to judge him from where the club was to where it is now. Lots of mistakes he made, but you would make similar or worse mistakes if you had taken over, especially with so low budgets, deficits, and when the club owed millions $ to past players.
You can fault him for not spending more money. I don't know if he has it. But, in my mind he truly saved the club when no one else wanted to touch PAO with a 10 yard pole. And, it's much harder to be successful when the budget is so low. Has he stopped any big fat cat from investing in the club as Tzigger did? Tzigger was the worst, by far, owner of PAO given his money. The worst drought of titles ever under his tenure. He alienated everyone, and he left the club vulnerable and a second class member of the "super" league.
Also, could you please explain to me why Greeks teams are so special? (aside from us being hardcore fans of our favorite club). Give me something that the other teams don't have....
Don't you think money, good management/ownership, and domestic league all play a role? Can you identify what Greek teams have that others don't so they can be more successful? OK, I'll give you one: crazy fans. Good asset. But even though the Panathes overwhelmed the Belgians in the stands (even in Belgium), the bottom line was our team lost 3-0.
PS>Nowadays a Greek team can have 40-80% foreign players. I noticed in the last couple seasons, especially gavroi would field 10 or 11 non-Greek players.