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This theme can not be decided by a referendum. People (at least the great majority) do not know the ins and outs of this economic mess and they will only see the short-term implication for their pockets. The last referendum was in 1974 and was clear: King of no king. No (real) money involved. Politicians should take their responsibility. Do what you have to do for the country. Even as it have to hurt badly for a short period. Now the PM wants a No, but he does not have the guts to say so. I guess his mother called his girlfriends when he wanted to break up?!?! The people get a referendum. And they get indoctrinated. by the PM. Is this what democracy is about? People in Greece have lived above their station. Money everywhere. People have withdrawn the lost months several billions of Euro's from the banks. Early retirement with a bonus (a neighbour in Greece told me a few years ago: I bought a Mercedes of my bonus (efapax in Greek, I do not know the right word for it in English or Dutch as this is unfamiliar for me) now that I can afford it and can enjoy is). (Nearly) Everybody a new house when they got married from their parents. Everybody has got his own gorafi at the village of birth. Mortgages are rare. I do not envy the Greek citizens. But I have to pay mortgage for 30 years and have to hope that my house has the value when the term ends. I pay a lot of taxes. My pensions have been downsized and I have to work longer than expected (at least till I am 67 but rumours here tell me that it might be 70 at that time of retirement because they want to connect the retirement with the life expectancy). Apart from the latter I am used to the situation as it is for me. And I am fine with it. It's the way it is since I am born and more important since I graduaded and work. Most Europeans are used to it as the system was like this for years. Greece needs to step in this new era. The leaders in front. Negotiate, admit the reasonable demands and/but in the mean time teach your citizens that these reforms are needed to survive.

If the people vote yes, you need new elections. You can't have an elected government that doesn't want to negotiate and is loudly telling everyone to vote no lead a country where the majority want yes (If that happens which I think will) Also, I have to laugh at the people who are proudly telling everyone to vote no and have no idea what a catastrophe a default will be. The average pension in Greece is around 830 Euros right now while in Romania and Bulgaria its $250 Euros. It doesn't take a math genius to figure out you will have one third the spending power and still be without a job.

Tsipras had a mandate from the people to challenge the austerity measures implemented by the troika etc and meekly accepted by the previous governments in Greece. The fact is the measures were too severe and were strangling the country creating a great deal of poverty and suffering to mostly the sections of the population who did not cause the problem in the first place. Take away all the financial buzz words and other financial jargon and a trained monkey can see that pruning a tree too much kills it or at the very least makes it grow very slowly. The measures forced upon Greece are too severe and killing the patient. I don't think anyone can dispute that the Greek economy and tax collecting needs reforming but this will not be accomplished by destroying the country. It was not Tsipras or syriza who caused this situation it was the previous governments and the people of the middle class upwards who refused to pay their taxes. Tsipras has been negotiating for weeks now and to all intents and purposes has not received anything. He has finally been backed into a corner by the Europeans who have refused to budge so if he accepted the proposals he would have been going against the mandate given to him by the electorate. So he is going back to the people and saying I have not been able to reach an agreement which would reduce austerity so I need to speak with you again, ask your opinion. Don't forget he is in a coalition politics is a tinderbox there at the moment. Social cohesion must be maintained as much as possible. The Europeans want to continue kicking the tin can down the road instead of providing a plan which will allow Greece to grow and therefore better make the financial repayments. The country is not going to pay anything back if all the economy implodes, all the trained and young people go and work in other countries! As for Greeks being liars and crooks etc. they are no worse then anyone else. Unfortunately they are not as good as some in hiding it. Historically and in the present there are many examples of crooked and lying going on around the world. If fact there is so much that I do not think anyone needs to provide examples. We could all draw up a list of our own.

So they leave, Greece has no money. Remember, we are an import economy and no one will want our drachma. How will Greece pay its pensioners? How will Greece pay for law enforcement? Basic needs such as medicine, food? We are the ones needing funds. We default, we still owe that money!!!! We may negotiate some sort of write off but even Argentina paid some % of its debt to its creditors. I do not think the average Greek understands what is at stake. The deal we are getting stinks (the Samaras administration was getting to the point of building credibility with the Troika and would have gotten way better terms) but the alternatives are far far worse!!!!

I have lost all respect for Tsipras and his government (not that I had that much before hand). If you wanted the people to decide, you should have let them decide BEFORE the June 30th deadline. You know, right before the tourist season (Greece's #1 revenue producer!!!!) This shows his inexperience of negotiating at the international level. All he did was antagonize the EU and everyone else who was working on the negotiations. I do not think he is wrong on some of his points however the harsh reality is that if Greece votes NO, Greece is out of the Euro. People will suffer a lot worse than they will under the current program. Greece receives/received a lot of EU subsidies which will now come to an end. He went all in holding a pair of deuces.

@Bananas Like in every country there are morrons and rocket scientists and the rest is in between. Greece is no exception. Greeks in the diaspora are no exception. But this referendum is way out of the league of the majority. Mine too. I can not figure out what the complications are of you say A or B. What are the effects in about 10 or 20 years? Audit offices of countries can. Plain civilians can not. Therefore the government has to decide this specific item. @js1000 Lower taxes and EU would be nice. But (as RS stated so well) we have to move forward. For our kids and future generations.

Dutch Eagle, I just don't agree that the people are not capable of deciding. We're not all that stupid are we ? Or only the Greeks in the diaspora are capable ? Or not even them ? The people deserve to have a say. This isn't a normal or typical situation they are in. If the people are not fit to have a say in a referendum, then why bother even having normal elections ? Just hand over all decision making to an bureaucracy that's never elected. Red Sheriff, KKE only gets around 5% of the vote, give or take, so even though there are a lot of left leaning voters in Greece, it's a minority that still have hard communist beliefs. Having said that I don't think there is a single poster in this forum that doesn't agree that Greece is in a mess. None of us agree with 10 year degrees, or the crazy unions, or the retirements at 47 and all the other guff that has collectively ruined Greece. What everyone disagrees on is the best way forward. Basically, with the Euro or with a new currency. That is the real question. And, I don't think sticking with the Euro is the best way forward in the long run. The EU is just too inflexible and was never designed with any mechanisms to help in a situation such as this. Right now, they EU is quite content with austerity and 25% unemployment for the next 20+ years, whereas the Greek people are not.

Panthessalonikeios Athlitik?s ?milos Scandinavia

Leros5 LOL he's scared shitless!

You think if they stay in the Euro that the pensions will remain where they are?! Not likely, once the IMF is done with all the cuts they want to implement, the pensions will probably be done around the same level as Albania. You got that right, who the heck will be left to vote for if they hold elections again- what a mess Greece has become.

If that is the result then it will mean that fear has prevailed. The government needs to outline exactly what the ramifications of voting yes or no are so people are clear on what their vote really means. If they vote to remain in the EU then they deserve the fate that will await them, namely continuing suffering and poverty. What good are elections going to do?! They are going to turn into a joke if they keep having elections every 5 months. I don't understand why all the hatred towards Syriza, they are not to blame for the mess Greece is in, that is all on the shoulders of PASOK & ND, the ones who have been governing the country for decades. The majority of the population despise these two parties, so if they hold elections again who is going to win?!

Yes we will and he is correct as that is exactly what this is. The NWO bankers are cutting off funds, forcing the banks to shut down to institute panic and fear in the general public. Tsipras called their bluff and now they are pissed so they are using the age old tactic of fear to get people to vote in favour of new deal and keep Greece aboard the S.S. Titantic Europa. This shows how easy malleable humans are, you get can them to do or believe anything you want just by using something as simple as fear.

I think it's odd when people say that the government has better things to do than tackle corruption in the super league. Not everyone in the government is involved in debt negotiations, and I think showing the ability to reform in all facets of the country is very important. If Tsipras wants to show that the country can change, for the better, than this is a great way to do it. The question isn't whether or not they should be ignoring this to focus on the debt crisis. The question is (or should be), why aren't they tackling more things? Tax evasion, bureaucracy, profligate spending, nepotism, criminal conspiracies, the drug trade...the country would be better off (and the creditors more pleased) if progress is shown on every front - which is something the previous government apparently failed to do. Which is not to say that Syriza will do any of this. But just sayin'.