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we got dominated because thats the way we wanted it....we were not trying to put anything together on O....classic offensive loafing with hard defending...

There are better ways to sit on a lead than that! A good team would've made us pay. The Irish were better than us for all but 25 minutes today
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om, we have all been screaming about that for ages...its what we do...is it right? no. but i think if we knew we were against a better team we would have picked it up a bit more...

greek team now doees juuuuust enough to win ...rarely do they go out and win 4-0...

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om, we have all been screaming about that for ages...its what we do...is it right? no. but i think if we knew we were against a better team we would have picked it up a bit more...

greek team now doees juuuuust enough to win ...rarely do they go out and win 4-0...

Not even talking about the final score. A 1-0 win at Ireland is more than fine by me. But if we're going to sit on a lead, why not possess the ball? When you give up 9 corners in the second half alone, you're playing with fire. You're one bounce away from blowing the lead. The defense held up and defended each corner well, and Karnezis was there when he had to be, but that was still brutal, and I think we were fortunate to escape Dublin with a victory that might inflate our world rankings even further.
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om, u right....i forgot about 9 corners...thats alot....but i never felt any threat from the irish offense...think the intro of new guys threw the chemistry off. midfield - so freaking important - was woeful in the second half. no off the ball movement, or attacking open space....

but yes one errant bounce, or deflection and we eat one....total agreement wit ya.

too bad holevas scored...dont like him and now he will get even more entrenched in the starting squad - and maniatis either....they dont impress me..but then again i was wrong about samaras....when he first came up i thought he was too soft.....skillful but soft, and he has developed very well......

Edited by mangas21
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om, u right....i forgot about 9 corners...thats alot....but i never felt any threat from the irish offense...think the intro of new guys threw the chemistry off. midfield - so freaking important - was woeful in the second half. no off the ball movement, or attacking open space....

but yes one errant bounce, or deflection and we eat one....total agreement wit ya.

too bad holevas scored...dont like him and now he will get even more entrenched in the starting squad - and maniatis either....they dont impress me..but then again i was wrong about samaras....when he first came up i thought he was too soft.....skillful but soft, and he has developed very well......

I mean, the first 20 minutes were bad, but the starting lineup was taking over the game, and scored a goal. The subs were not good, and Santos made his intentions clear when he kept replacing midfielders with defenders.
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remember these are friendlies, and as such expect less.....the purpose is to try new things, while still trying to maintain leads to keep rankings high for seeding purposes.

i think we could have scored three or four with the starting lineup....never felt ireland posed any real threat except for that pest running down the right side....he absolutely undressed fourtounis with a great move, im sure u know which one...

i like what santos did here....throw in alot of new guys - see what they have to bring...otto never really did that....and though ireland is really not a team i think tested us, it is good practice provided the coach uses it that way, which he did.

he is in love with holebas - and maniatis....these guys are subs at best...mitroglou more active than gekas...he works the small passing game well...nini needs to assert himself more....taxidi did not get a good read...papastathopoulos seems to be half a step behind everyone...he is tough, no doubt and very physical, but he will cost us some free kicks...

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agree with you about holebas but the reason he was picked was to give stafylidis some protection as it was his first game and i think he struggled but its his first game and he'll improve, tachtsidis i thought had a very impressive debut and papastathopoulos i thought was outstanding i didn't think he was half a step behind and the tackle he made when karnezis spilt a shot was outstanding. tziolis is a bit slow and not offensively minded but he's tall and headed away a lot of corners but he's a bench player at APOEL but santos seems to like him maybe kone can play that role.

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papastathopouls is tough; the kind of player you hate playing against but love on your team.....his tackles are tough and well timed. He seems to be out of position sometimes and plays catch up.....but yes he made some good plays...agreed. but remember, often you end up making a great goal saving tackle becuase you or someone else was out of position to allow the offensive player to be in that dangerous position.

ive been a tsiolis fan becuase he is a good positioning player, makes good, very good decisions, is good in the air (we need more of that) very strong on the ball. He started as an attacking mid and know playes bdeep. but if u see the passes he makes, he has very good vision, and opens the game up even from the deep position he is in.. i like him behind say fourtouni / nini/taxicab guy / kone and what every other attacking mids we have. He can hold defensively but he is not strictly defensive minded. He occasionally goes to the top of the box, but he is not an attacking mid in the pureest sense, like say gianakopoulos was....

i really WANT to like holebas - i just do not see anything that wows me...allright, nice shot yesterday...and he is a natural left, correct? so maybe he needs ot grow in that role...WE NEED A GUY THAT CAN DRIBLLE AROUND SOMEONE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

eliminating one defender by leaving him behind is H U G E !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

FET - FA !!!!! FET- FA !!!!! this and the kennedy assasination - two of the most mysterious unsolved conspiracy theories of all time.

By the way: did anyone see that fourth goal by Ibram yesterday against england? SICK.....absolutely sick...35 yard scissor kick -----

Edited by mangas21
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FET - FA !!!!! FET- FA !!!!! this and the kennedy assasination - two of the most mysterious unsolved conspiracy theories of all time.

he just extended his contract at olympiakos for another year until 2016, seems he's content picking up his wages and not playing, hope he got a pay rise at least :D

when papadopoulos was riding the bench there he ran his contract down and said sell me now or i walk for free next season. pap has heart desire and balls fetfa is happy to not play which has been illustrated by his decision to sign a contract extension this week, you really want players like that on the national team?? hopefully he proves me wrong and starts playing soon.

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why are you guys pining for fetfa he doesn't play for his club side, how do you expect him to get picked for the NT? he does not deserve a call up.

as for a leader papadopoulos or papastathopoulos or torosidis can lead from the back. samaras captained celtic the other day and does have the experience.

Any player with that kind of talent and ability DESERVES a call up; if the sh it - for - brains coaches can't get a grip on that fact too bad. Too bad for the teams, too bad for millions of football fans.

This has already been pointed out: Kats doesn't play for any team yet he gets called up (not referring to this game). Does that sit well with you?

Wake up man

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"On 23 November 2011, Fetfatzidis gave Olympiacos a 1–0 victory over Olympique Marseille in the Champions League by scoring in the 82nd minute at the Stade Vélodrome, placing them in 3rd place in Group F.[6]

Controversy followed the player in 2012. To everyone's surprise despite helping Greece qualify for Euro 2012 with matching winning qualifying goals, Fetfatzidis was quickly dropped from the team when the tournament finally arrived and spent the whole competition on the bench. Bizarrely at Olympiacos during the same season, despite having better goal/minute and assist/minute ratios than first team wingers like Djamel Abdoun, Fetfatzidis found himself planted to the bench for most the 2011-2012 season. [7] To further confuse the issue, from the start of the 2012 season, despite an excellent 2012 pre-season, Fetfatzidis has again been largely ignored at Olympiacos. This has in turn prompted questions from the media about why he has been abandoned as a player - with Sakis Tsiolis and other managers openly questioning why he is not being played despite outshining his peers and drawing comparisons to Kyriakos Papadopoulos's treatment at Olympiacos. [8]"

three international caps - 3 goals.....its not like he came in and flopped....quite the opposite.-------and he is an attacking midfielder which we need and is left footed.....not mentioned being the only greek player that can actually dribble around someone.....by far head shoulder above anyone else....

can imagine him streaking the left with salpi on the right - mitro in top middle and samras behind them? throw in fourtounis/nini , tsilis behind them and four solid defenders - pap. pap, toro, avram.........solid team at that point

then manolas, taxidis, athanasiadis, maniatis, etc....

please......

throw in BIGFOOT and the LOCH NESS MONSTER

Edited by mangas21
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"On 23 November 2011, Fetfatzidis gave Olympiacos a 1–0 victory over Olympique Marseille in the Champions League by scoring in the 82nd minute at the Stade Vélodrome, placing them in 3rd place in Group F.[6]

Controversy followed the player in 2012. To everyone's surprise despite helping Greece qualify for Euro 2012 with matching winning qualifying goals, Fetfatzidis was quickly dropped from the team when the tournament finally arrived and spent the whole competition on the bench. Bizarrely at Olympiacos during the same season, despite having better goal/minute and assist/minute ratios than first team wingers like Djamel Abdoun, Fetfatzidis found himself planted to the bench for most the 2011-2012 season. [7] To further confuse the issue, from the start of the 2012 season, despite an excellent 2012 pre-season, Fetfatzidis has again been largely ignored at Olympiacos. This has in turn prompted questions from the media about why he has been abandoned as a player - with Sakis Tsiolis and other managers openly questioning why he is not being played despite outshining his peers and drawing comparisons to Kyriakos Papadopoulos's treatment at Olympiacos. [8]"

three international caps - 3 goals.....its not like he came in and flopped....quite the opposite.-------and he is an attacking midfielder which we need and is left footed.....not mentioned being the only greek player that can actually dribble around someone.....by far head shoulder above anyone else....

can imagine him streaking the left with salpi on the right - mitro in top middle and samras behind them? throw in fourtounis/nini , tsilis behind them and four solid defenders - pap. pap, toro, avram.........solid team at that point

then manolas, taxidis, athanasiadis, maniatis, etc....

please......

throw in BIGFOOT and the LOCH NESS MONSTER

He must have like a really bad attitude or something, because I can't think of anything.
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well we all agree fetfatzidis should be playing and has been badly treated at olympiakos but the fact is he is not too bothered about it, otherwise he wouldn't have extended his contract this week, if he was hungry to play he would have done what k paps did.

so if he plays 1 or 2 games between now and march you guys would seriously want him playing against bosnia?? he'd have absolutely zero match fitness.

olympiakos are beating everyone in greece with ease they're top by miles they've pretty much won the league already and its november they rest players before european cup matches and despite that fetfatzidis STILL doesn't get any playing time and how does he feel about his treatment? well he's happy enough to stay AND sign a contract extension.

sorry guys until he starts playing from time to time i don't want him on the national team.

@clover katsouranis is without a club hence his omission from this squad in the last squad kats had only just left pana and was match fit so thats why he was included, although i don't really rate him and wouldn't have taken him i can see why santos took him and he assisted for salpi's winner in slovakia

Edited by js1000
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well we all agree fetfatzidis should be playing and has been badly treated at olympiakos but the fact is he is not too bothered about it, otherwise he wouldn't have extended his contract this week, if he was hungry to play he would have done what k paps did.

so if he plays 1 or 2 games between now and march you guys would seriously want him playing against bosnia?? he'd have absolutely zero match fitness.

olympiakos are beating everyone in greece with ease they're top by miles they've pretty much won the league already and its november they rest players before european cup matches and despite that fetfatzidis STILL doesn't get any playing time and how does he feel about his treatment? well he's happy enough to stay AND sign a contract extension.

sorry guys until he starts playing from time to time i don't want him on the national team.

@clover katsouranis is without a club hence his omission from this squad in the last squad kats had only just left pana and was match fit so thats why he was included, although i don't really rate him and wouldn't have taken him i can see why santos took him and he assisted for salpi's winner in slovakia

How do you really know he is not bothered by it? Were you there when he signed the contract? Did you speak to him personally? I wouldn't judge him unless we really know whats going on; and something clearly isn't right.

I think these guys are a bunch of corrupt scumbags.

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clover if you were unhappy at where you worked would you extend your contract there ?? he didn't have to sign, nobody forced him to, he simply chose to which means he's happy there. i'm sure he's well paid so good luck to him but to me it shows a lack of ambition.

don't expect him to play anytime soon and don't expect him to ask for a transfer.

i wouldn't call olympiakos 'corrupt scumbags' they're just looking after there own interests they've managed to tie a talented young player to a long contract, seems to me both parties are happy.

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clover if you were unhappy at where you worked would you extend your contract there ?? he didn't have to sign, nobody forced him to, he simply chose to which means he's happy there. i'm sure he's well paid so good luck to him but to me it shows a lack of ambition.

don't expect him to play anytime soon and don't expect him to ask for a transfer.

i wouldn't call olympiakos 'corrupt scumbags' they're just looking after there own interests they've managed to tie a talented young player to a long contract, seems to me both parties are happy.

Well, I wouldn't call the Greek League and Olympiakos "clean and fair"; corrupt is certainly more like it. At any rate hopefully someone can clear up and explain this Fetfa situation sooner than later.
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why are you guys pining for fetfa he doesn't play for his club side, how do you expect him to get picked for the NT? he does not deserve a call up.

as for a leader papadopoulos or papastathopoulos or torosidis can lead from the back. samaras captained celtic the other day and does have the experience.

There have been many examples of players not playing for their club sides and would still get called up to the squad. Karagounis was one, Samaras was another, Gekas too. Fetfatzidis is a top talent and would certainly add something to the squad that we lack and need. Just because Olympiakos don't use him does not mean that he isn't good enough to play for Greece. It's not just the fact that he skips past players for fun, and has a terrific through ball, he also draws an extra marker, creating space for his teammates. We have no one like that. He should be featuring.

As for why he signed a new contract, the simple reason that he was on a contract worth 120k euros a year, now he's on 200k euros a year. They've, apparently, promised to let him go on loan and there are Spanish teams interested. However the truth is that they might have also said "if you want to go on loan you will sign an extension, otherwise you'll rot in the reserves". The kid should move to the Bundesliga or La Liga asap imo, whether it's a loan move or otherwise. He is wasting his talent in Greece

Edited by Euro2004
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There have been many examples of players not playing for their club sides and would still get called up to the squad. Karagounis was one, Samaras was another, Gekas too

thats simply not true all these players featured a little for their respective clubs whether in cup matches or off the bench but fetfa hasn't played at all, how do you expect him to be match fit? under otto it went on with haristeas/basinas getting picked but not playing for their clubs which led to an outburst from amanatidis. correct me if i'm wrong but i think santos has stated he won't pick players who are not playing.

euro would you take him to bosnia if he doesn't play between now and march ?

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euro is in da houz....sup bro...where u been hiding?

glad we see eye to eye on this issue, though i really did not think we wouldn't...this guy is sssssssssooooo able to provide an element we lack....

you echo my thoughts exactly on this...he is also left footed !!! but i think santos loves holebas...

still fourtouni / nins / fet with tsoilis behind them is a killer combo...samras mitro in front - - - papa, pap, toro, avraam in the back

killer lineup....let em play and learn each others tendencies...

siovas / maniati / kone / atha / taxidis / not to mention a bunch of up coming youngsters off the bench...that dood that got hurt in the slovakia game ....

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thats simply not true all these players featured a little for their respective clubs whether in cup matches or off the bench but fetfa hasn't played at all, how do you expect him to be match fit? under otto it went on with haristeas/basinas getting picked but not playing for their clubs which led to an outburst from amanatidis. correct me if i'm wrong but i think santos has stated he won't pick players who are not playing.

euro would you take him to bosnia if he doesn't play between now and march ?

Playing 10 minutes off the bench is hardly the equivalent of being match fit. Even when Fetfatzidis was fit and featuring Santos wouldn't give him a real chance. And Amanatidis didn't rebel because they were playing for Greece whilst not playing for their clubs. His outburst came about because of favouritism. He saw that they were playing badly for Greece and yet were seemingly irreplaceable because there was a "clique" within the team. There's a big difference between playing badly and not being given a chance at all.

If Fetfatzidis doesn't play between now and March I would call him up for a friendly and play him for 90 mins. If he is capable of playing at the level that I know he can then yes I'd call him up. Santos could easily have given him 30 minutes against Ireland. In fact, despite the fact that we got to the quarter finals we had 1.5 good games at the Euros. The 2nd half against Poland, and the Russia game. We were abysmal against the Czechs and overwhelmed by Germany (because we got our tactics wrong imo). During that tragic period why wasn't Fetfatzidis given a run out? Against Germany it was clear that Ninis was in atrocious form and with Karagounis injured too we had no effective attacking midfielder. The Germans were able to over commit and we were pinned up without an outlet. They were primed for the counter and despite all their attacking talent the fact is Germany cannot defend. Italy undid them with one school-playground long ball over the top. They have big, immobile defenders in Badstuber and Hummels, yet Santos decided to take Ninis off at half time, put Gekas on and play a long aerial ball to him! How dumb is that? Katsouranis played at the attacking centre midfielder for goodness sake and he was frequently in acres of space in the hole between their defence and midfield. Get Fetfa on and let him run at those big statues at the back. Let's see how Badstuber and Hummels would have coped when isolated against him. Also that was at a time when Fetfa was on form for Olympiakos and he still wasn't given a chance, despite the fact that tactically it made perfect sense for him to be given a chance.

Let me finish by asking you a question. Forget the fact that Fetfa is at Olympiakos. If he was at Barcelona it would be perfectly understandable as why he would be on the bench. Teams like that have a plethora of talent and they don't always play. In that scenario would you call Fetfa up to the Greece squad or would you leave him out because he's not playing first team football?

@mangas, How are you? I've been working long days and haven't really had the time to get online much. When I win the lottery and am a millionaire I'll have the luxury of sitting on a beach, sipping cocktails while surfing Phantis all day long! :tup:

Edited by Euro2004
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euro now you have something to aspire to....lol...but honestly i think at that point there may be a fffffffew things you would rather be doing that surfing phantis all day !!!!!!! besides whats more important, making a living or commenting on greek soccer...comon man where are the priorities....?lol......anyway, always good to see your contribution.......

sweden came back for 4-0 against germany...and yes italy undressed them with a school yard play...

our tactics against them were WRONG...i jumped out my seat when i saw the typical stay back and absorb attitude....they were primed for the counter, and yes, your assessment of how fet would have fit in is spot on, in my opinion...gave them waaaaay toooo much room, and with no fear of overloading in our zone...tactical blunder of the highest order, for sure.

Edited by mangas21
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Let me finish by asking you a question. Forget the fact that Fetfa is at Olympiakos. If he was at Barcelona it would be perfectly understandable as why he would be on the bench. Teams like that have a plethora of talent and they don't always play. In that scenario would you call Fetfa up to the Greece squad or would you leave him out because he's not playing first team football?

well i suppose training with messi xabi and iniesta every day will be more beneficial than training with djebbour fuster and greco, however if he's getting zero playing time then no i wouldn't pick him. if fetfa was playing from time to time then i'd include him but he doesn't even make the bench sometimes at oly - why do you think that is?? - to me it would be like selecting tzorvas or sifakis in goal despite them not playing. karnezis has improved so much since he's been playing arguably sifakis is better and more experienced but karnezis has to get the nod by dint of him playing regularly, sifakis is going backwards, and so will fetfa (if he continues to be omitted) who you were quite critical of, for coming inside too much and not beating his man.

here are some of your comments about him, which are spot on.

Fetfa is talented but certainly needs to improve significantly and he'll only achieve that if he leaves Greece in my opinion. But regardless of whether he leaves or not there are basic weaknesses the coaching staff at Olympiakos need to address. As I wrote on the day of the game that Fetfa always cuts in, particularly when on the right he cuts in field or onto his left foot. He does not have the confidence or perhaps even the dribbling ability/pace to beat a man down the wing and whip in a cross. We saw it numerous times against Poland and they figured him out and dealt with him comfortably. Even on his highlight reel, look how many times he cuts back or moves the ball towards his left foot because he distributes all his body weight onto his right leg:

30 secs, 1:14, 1:47, 1:51, 2:18

On 1:32 he does go down the right hand side but again look at his stance, he's leaning on his right leg. So he distributes all his body weight on to his right leg, taking it completely out of play. That means the defender has to focus on one leg.

The absolute best example of this though is on 2:08. Look at him leaning on his right leg, looking for a way to cut in field on to his left. He never faces a defender square on to run at him

how do you expect him to address these issues and progress if he doesn't play at all ? he's got talent but its wasted, i'd love to see him playing regularly and if he was i'm sure he'd develop into a good player but until then i wouldn't include him in the national side.

gianniotas at ARIS may be worth looking at.

Edited by js1000
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