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GREECE v. RUSSIA @ Euro 2008


athinaios

Game result  

24 members have voted

  1. 1. Game result

    • Greece wins
      10
    • Tie
      3
    • Russia wins
      9


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I can't sleep again tonight!!! I have a feeling we are going to lose this one again tomorrow, I hope my I'm wrong.

@OFI-mtl : I have to agree with AEK66, it's not that a 5-3-2 is unplayable, the problem is whether Otto is chosing tactics based on bringing out the greatest strengths of our players relative to the situation at hand. Otto seems to choose formations based on some very basic and general principles stemming from certain presumptions about our players and tournament goals.

And in connection with the above point, the article drakos13 found is a perfect example of how our the selection of our tactics and squad keep reverting back to Otto's "philosophy" of defense as attack. Time and again he as doomed us to failure by using this "method" at innapropriate times.

Sure, a 5-3-2 can be very effective when used appropriately (i.e. 2 paired strikers like AEK66 explained and a dominant supportive role by the FBs) and at the right times. Just look at Romania this morning against Italy.

And do you really believe Otto that our players didn't play "with heart" after he says things such as "they messed up our game because they scored first." I'm 100% certain the plan against Sweden was to hit Sweden via set piece, and an effective counter-attacking scheme was probably not even considered. Worst case scenario Otto probably imagined was a 0-0 draw.

So, in sum, let me share my recent revelation about feldmarschall Otto. After trying to use whatever casuistry I could to discern and defend the rationale for Otto's tactics and squad selections, I finally came to the following conclusion:

Otto doesn't care about tactics with our team. He just wants to fill spaces with bodies that will #1, above all else, thwart attackers. And, as a corollary to this, he wants a few of these players to be above 6'6" -- basketball Dikembe Mutombo type giants -- who may have no dribbling or passing skills, but can out jump an opponent at set pieces. This is why Otto consistently choses players who have "heart" rather than skill.

In any event, I do hope we win tomorrow and hope players like Amanatidis will stand firm against him and whatever sycophant xafiedies in the team who play coy and remain"loyal" just to retain their starting positions.

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OK, the big day is here! We come off a hugely disappointing start, playing a team full of -ov's coming off a 3-goal loss. :whistle:

It's deja vu all over again! I've seen this movie before, 14 years ago! :1eye:

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I think we'll see some of the Greek pride at work today. I can't imagine another uninspired effort so soon.

I think all the criticism is founded and for the most part, constructive. We won the trophy and we have the right to aim high. I think most of us (Greeks and supporters) recognize and accept that we won't win another one so soon, but we all expect to see an inspired effort on the pitch. That's all. Looking at mistakes and correcting them is the way to improve. For us, fans of the game, this is what makes it exciting. We get to feel close to the team by making our own plans, by playing manager, and by feeling like we accomplished something ourselves when a player makes a goal or when the team wins. That's our part of the game. Otto's gets to make real plans and to beach about being criticized; That's his part.

I have to say besides tactics and formations, our Greek football was exposed on the pitch against Sweden for its lack of foundations. Watching the other games, most of which are very entertaining and enjoyable, bad passes, unforced errors, poor control and first touch, lack of ability to dribble or shoot, are the exception. The games seem to flow because they are void of bad craftsmanship.

A small example of what I am saying is the game of Torosidis against Sweden. Many hailed him as one of the best players of our NT (which does not say much in this game), but while I noted his workmanship, I also noted his sloppy fundamentals that are indicative of lack of work in early ages. We have correctly pointed out here that he plays on the wrong foot when he lines up as a LB. Most have pointed out that it's hard to rip a good cross from the left when attacking, and I have made the point how hard it is to perform a sliding tackle when running side by side with a right footed winger. Torosidis has to use his right foot to reach all the way to the other side of the winger to find the ball. 7 times out of 10 (my unscientific stat here) the winger's left foot will be touched first resulting in a foul.

Now, let's see what happens when he plays on the right. Torosidis was booked for fouling a player on the right hand side of the field. He was on the right of the winger, and had fallen a little behind in the race. It was a case where a professional player is trained (actually it's second nature) to perform a sliding tackle with the right foot so he can reach the ball all the way to the left side of the winger. What did Torosidis do? He stepped on his right foot and reached with his left!!

I am not picking on Torosidis. I think he is a fine player, one of the best Greece has right now. But I do try to make the point that Greece's NT problem is not just formations and tactics. Irespective of what happens in this EURO - even if we win it again - I think our football needs to be organized in a way that there is sound foundations at young ages.

We have already won the EURO once, maybe now we can shoot for some goals that are less ephemeral. I want to see our teams play like Portugal or Holland sometime in my lifetime. Until then, I hope we beat Russia today :P

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I havent said it yet but I was informing a friend (who knows nothing about football) about the sweden game and how negatively we played and he sumed it up for me then and there,

"you know what bugs me re file, the way greeks sit on their past achievements and never strive to be better"

I really hope that otto is playing mind games but who the fark knows what goes on in his old brain anyway.

I believe we can win this one even though it could be the gates of fire.

PAME GERA ELLAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i think I'll go and pray for victory for a few hours now........

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cyberfish, you are dead on, good post file!! Fundamentals at an early age, and continual first rate work ethic is the only way to advance in life no matter what the field of interest might be.

That's why/how advanced nations prokovoun but we Greeks are simply too smart to follow such fundamentals (smart asses if you ask me). Tisgaraki, frapedaki, ouiskaki, bouzoukaki e kai ligh mpala pou kai pou. Kai an den mas erthi...."kanenas den exei dikeoma kritikis" lene ta kamaria mas, oi leventes mas. A re Zagoraki pou eisai re agori mou, enas sta 10,000,000 Ellhnas kai xriazomaster 11 san kai sena na kanoume omada ths prokopis!!

Ante na doume ti tha mas vgaloun simera oi levendes mas, ta kamaria mas. Thelo den thelo tha katso spiti na to dw to atimo to pexnidi kai efxome na mhn me piasei kardiako pali apo thn tsatila mou! :gr: :gr: :gr: :gr: :gr:

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file loop, who cares who he's refering to? Fagan ksilo mprosta s'olo to kosmo, ntropiastikane kai mas ntripiasane kai emas!! For 4 yerars I've been taking up for the bums at work, for 4 years my work buddies have been trying to convince me 2004 was a fluke and for 4 years I've been justifying their style of play for what? The Sweden debacle? Lets face it, the world was seing all along the simple truth while we Greeks, because of national pride, would not/could not accept it. And the funny thing is I still can't accept it and I still hope for a miracle today and against Spain!! My bad I guess but them's the facts :box: .

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for me, a 5-4-1 is played with 4 midfielders across. greece did not have a wide left midfielder and charisteas was not a right midfielder, but, a right forward - so, to me, it's a 5-3-2 with the otto 'twist' at the forwards.

:o

Thanks for elaborating on that ... :tup:

and after reading your post, agreed, a 5-3-2. But I hope he keeps his 'twist' to himself today. Because even with this being a 5-3-2 (and not the 5-4-1 that I thought it was) I think we still all agree that it's the wrong formation (for both games against Sweden and Russia, and probably even against Spain).

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questioning an athlete's heart is risky business....i think they just got out coached, and when it came time for them to adapt they could not do it....part of the problem is the otto has brainwshed them into thinking they can only win one way, another is that this team has no identity any more, another is that players are ssssssooooo reliant on ottos commands that they can't improvise on their own....if u listent tothe coaches comments and the players as well, you can read between the lines a bit.

i dont understand why the coach emphasis is on things like "we doont have ibrmovich , we dont have ronaldo, etc.etc....one guy does not make the team,,,without support from behind all these finishers would have nothing to finish....every 30 years you get a maradonna to dribble 10 players and score, but other than that its ALWAYS about chemistry on the pitch, soccer smarts, and soe talent of course.....we saw the 04 team strike back effectively and efficiently, so why cant thios team come up with aq set of tactics thavt gives them the flexibility to attack when it is warranted.....????

is it the coach, is it the players????

this game will show me alot.....

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Great point about the fundamentals. There are a couple Greek football generations (the current one, about to retire, and the one following) that don't have the fundamentals. It's attitude and the changing of the sport in GR.

I think they can run more, faster, have more muscles, etc. and the play the game as part of a "system"... This can be good and bad. I see that most players do NOT know how to do magic WITH the ball.

Those of you a little older know what I'm talking about. Every young person who liked football started by trying to control and play WITH the ball... not play a position in the team (which is also important but comes later). Every little boy had a soccer ball and knew how to CONTROL, be FANCY with it. Right?!!

So, the result was more people knew how to play the ball, make good passes, could react on a reflex when the ball came at them, etc, and CREATE magic.

I'm afraid this is lost know. That's the lack of fundamentals I see..... (although I agree with those here who also point out to the attitude).

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Another dead on post athinaios. In one of my earlier posts I mentioned "what happened to the Domazos', Koudas', Paridis', Antoniathis'.....". Exactly right, we look this bad because we don't have fundamentals and that's the ugly football everyone accusses us of. We have no flare and spectacularsness in the pitch like all others do. Otto says we don't have an Ibra. Why not? Are we so incapable and our genes so inferior that we can not produce a goltzi of the Ibra stature? All other countries have 2-3 each on their teams....

Took a total of 15 min for Spain to breakdown the Swedes and score and we didn't even come close in 95 mins. I REST MY CASE!

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What was there to complain about (btw ponos enai oxi complaints)? That team's heart and strength compensated for their lack of finesse and style. It was beautiful to watch where as after the trophy their games have become painful to watch.

Ibra scores :nw: we can only wish we can have one.

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Erasport reported tonight's lineup:

----------------nikopolidis----------------

Seitaridis--Antzas--Kyriakos--Torosidis

---Patsatzoglou--Basinas--Katsouranis

Charisteas--Lyberopoulos--Amanatidis

all things considered I like it and it shows that Otto is desperate

although it is a fairly slow team, which scares me

I'd rather see Delas in there instead of Antzas

how can you not like Lybe --- he produces

Patsa is more defensive than Kara but we have 3 forwards

and now we have:

Kara

Gekas

Stelios

Samaras

all options off the bench

Ibrahimovic is a stud

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karagkounis on the bench........damnit! what the hell is patsatzoglou supposed to do!?

Gkekas should be starting......i dont get why there has been so much criticsm after that first game after he was hardly given the ball and basically playing defensive midfielder half the time.

Im a Lybe fan though, but hes GOT to perform today. I dont know if it can happen.

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i would of played vyntra at LB and played Toro on RM since Kara is on the bench.

Vyntra has shown he is very effective defensively as long as he doesnt have to push forward. And with Toro on RM our wing just got 185% better. but hey, thats just me..... Patsa sucked alot the last 6 months.

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