GREECE v. RUSSIA @ Euro 2008

[gcp]

Re paidia all of your schema hypotheticals are entertaining enough reading but please lets forget the freaking 5-5-1, 4-4-3, or 1-1-9 crap. It is obvious Otto doesn't have confidence in his players from a simple statement he made after the Sweden game " ....how do you know we wouldn't loose 5-0 if we didn't play so defensively?"...or something to that effect. He knows the team's quality is for shits and this much is evident to all of us. So lets face the facts for once, if there's no quality there, no desire to win, and no heart beating in the chest of our players turn out the lights cause the party, which was a party only in our minds BTW, is over. Who's to blame? Otto for sure for choosing the players he did, read gerousia, but more so at fault are the players and our nootropia as a nation. We come through every 1K years and then for ever rest on our glorious past. Ntroph mas kai lipame pou to lew!

[Akritis_1944]

Re paidia all of your schema hypotheticals are entertaining enough reading but please lets forget the freaking 5-5-1, 4-4-3, or 1-1-9 crap. It is obvious Otto doesn't have confidence in his players from a simple statement he made after the Sweden game " ....how do you know we wouldn't loose 5-0 if we didn't play so defensively?"...or something to that effect. He knows the team's quality is for shits and this much is evident to all of us. So lets face the facts for once, if there's no quality there, no desire to win, and no heart beating in the chest of our players turn out the lights cause the party, which was a party only in our minds BTW, is over. Who's to blame? Otto for sure for choosing the players he did, read gerousia, but more so at fault are the players and our nootropia as a nation. We come through every 1K years and then for ever rest on our glorious past. Ntroph mas kai lipame pou to lew!

Yes it is the players that are out there and not Otto, but in saying that Otto has every right as sole selector and manager of the REIGNING EURO CHAMPIONS to pick and choose who he likes.

He had the opportunity to select Ninis and Papastahopoulos for starters. I'm not going to mention Christodoulopoulos, Makos et al.

Ok that's out of the way. So why doesn't he select players that have had great seasons i.e Skoufalis or Choutos?

The answer is simple: he does NOT follow the Greek league or other Greek players not playing in high profile leagues.

I hate our unique "nootropia" as well. It's actually quite frustrating but I honestly beileve that Otto as much as he was THE solution 4/5 years is clearly the problem now - and has been for at least 4 years.

[DUDE]

gcp and Akritas... There's no point in discussing who should and shouldn't be here and whether we have quality or not... I for example believe that Ninis & Papastathopoulos should be in the squad, but I don't believe Makos or Skoufalis are good enough. you may disagree, Aek66 may have another opinion, Geok another, Paxiotis another, and so on.

We all see different qualities in different players, the issue many of us have with Otto though is that once a manager has made the decision to select his squad, he should have a plan to make it all work. Otto's formations and approach appear to magnify our players' weaknesses and undermine our strengths. This is the beef we have with his tactics... the quality of our squad is not that bad.

[DUDE]

http://www.contra.gr/Soccer/Europe/Euro/Eu...ece/202024.html

According to Contra.gr, Otto employed a 4-3-3 in training with Samaras on the left, Lybe in the centre and I assume Haristeas on the right... This is great news!!! Although I'm still torn over Amanatidis... personally I'd have started Amanatidis, but I have to say this seem like a good move.

[aekrossoponti]

its good news but may not mean anything. our main problems remain in the midfiled and our passive fullbacks. toro was o.k but is useless on his wrong foot whereas giourkas was a disgrace. credit to aek66 and DUDE in pointing that out before the tournament.

from what i heard giourkas and antzas are doubtful for russia which actually is good news as well. the probelm will be that in case giourkas misses the match otto will probably throw patsa or vyntra in there instead of the no-brainer of using torosidis where he can actually make a difference. vyntra and/or spyropoulos on the left would be my move in that case. i belive toro on the right will really help our offense. dont think otto will move him :tdown: :tdown:

[gcp]

Dude, it's too late for formation changes, the talendo is not there and what we talk about on this board the Russian management and players are also preparing for, and unlike us they WILL be prepared! That's my mind speaking but my heart says :gr:

Akritis_1944, I agree with you for the most part, even though you are being much too kind describing ours as unique "nootropia". Justifying inadequacy is not unique at all, loosers do it all the time. BTW half of this team should have been replaced right after their failure to qualify for the WC.

My wife is from Brazil so I follow their football as best as possible from the US (and I attend Gremio's games when there from the eksedres with her God father while the rest of her family is International, which makes interesting dinner table conversations :LOL:) . I hate the way Brazilians play, it's stifling, punishing football but it's effective non-the less. Ours is stifling, ineffective and punishing only to their opadoi so I fully understand those that say we play "ugly" football, we do. I'd much rather watch European football because the games are fast, furious and they flow, i.e. Germany vs. Croatia, or Holland vs. CR, both games being a fantastic display of passion, skill, and style!! But that's still not good enough because International won the world championship, which goes to show you that effectiveness comes out on top just about every time. I'm done, now where's my bouzouki to put this kaimo and pono gia ta xalia mas to music?

[gcp]

[Guest geok]

[Guest geok]

I saw the game against Sweden in ITV. They repeatedly showed Otto being unhappy and angry at the bench, from the beginning of the game.

Perhaps this was more a players blunder than the coach, at a 80%-20%. Of course both parties are guilty for the unacceptable performance and result.

There are 3 categories of people who lose out heavily from this:

(1) The players (about to lose 150.000 EURO each), but who cares as they are already rich. I am glad that the confederation is about to lose too.

(2) The Greek fans who went there. These are the true losers because they put a large amount of their annual income to go there. I am really sorry about them.

(3) The commercial industry around the Greek NT: at least they will all shut up in about 5 days or so.

I am just sorry for the fans. At least we have Croatia to support and perhaps Romania as underdogs.

[andrew_g]

I just have one thing to add. The 4-3-3 is not the right tactic for Russia. This is going to be a 3-0 rout. We should have taken advantage and played 4-3-3 against Sweden. Why not just do what we did four years ago and play 4-4-2 like all the other normal people. As it stands this is going to be a big shame for years to come just like 1994. Otto should leave, if he has not control over the players he should go and if he is telling them to play badly he should leave.

A

[athinaios]

I'd say give the money to the fans who went there!

I'd reward fans who go to support a team, especially when the team sucks. So, under my system :whistle: I'd give the money to the fans. If the team progresses and does well, then the fans would get rewarded this way so I'd give the players the money! Something to think about.

[drakos13]

I saw the game against Sweden in ITV. They repeatedly showed Otto being unhappy and angry at the bench, from the beginning of the game.

Perhaps this was more a players blunder than the coach, at a 80%-20%. Of course both parties are guilty for the unacceptable performance and result.

There are 3 categories of people who lose out heavily from this:

(1) The players (about to lose 150.000 EURO each), but who cares as they are already rich. I am glad that the confederation is about to lose too.

(2) The Greek fans who went there. These are the true losers because they put a large amount of their annual income to go there. I am really sorry about them.

(3) The commercial industry around the Greek NT: at least they will all shut up in about 5 days or so.

I am just sorry for the fans. At least we have Croatia to support and perhaps Romania as underdogs.

guys at least wait to see what happens tommorow to really trash this team......

I mean Im a huge critic, and as furious as anybody about the Sweden game, but come on...

1 - the players arent playing from prims and money. They got to go to the Euro to play for Greece- they are excited to be there.

2 - the fans spend money, but this is the fans risk. If your the type of tool who pays four hundred euros for a football ticket in the first round at scalper price (when you have trouble affording it) - you assume your own risk. You dont go there only to win, but to make atmosphere and have fun. Sometimes you win, sometimes you don't

3- No it wont man. Greece is not finished as a footballing country because we lost to Sweden in the Euro and had a break down...Theres still WC qualifyers, and if we qualify for the WC, its hard to remember the Greek NT before the Euros....

I mean stop and beleive it guys - were in. Were first seeds in draws, high rankings, a defending champions - we played in Confed Cup, 2 euros in 8 years.....we could be another one of those teams you see somwhat regularly in tournaments.

I mean before the Euro 2004......We were so happy to be at the tournament. Who would imagine Greece has such a great chance of going to the WC? Greece in WC's Euro's Confed Cups - isnt this what we always wanted , to be able to bitch about the team at major tournaments instead of never qualifying?

Lets not forget, Greece is going to get better. Our league is bringing in stronger players every year...Our youth is one of the top sides in Europe. This generation probably goes home early - next generation ( i have a topic for this) .... were in between generationsof players......weve lost Tsartas, Nikolaidis era....then the Fyssas, Kapsis group.......next up is Stelios, Nikopolidis, Dellas etc...look at us.....weve got old and tired players still in this team...we have some things to look forward too.

I mean look at Croatia in 2004 would be a much better example - remember them? they were bad.....2006 they werent much better- they were reshaping that team...now in 2008 theyve got a fresh developed squad, the new generation has set in, and they won their group, likely to go to the Semi Finals too. Its not our year, because NT's do have years and generations that they go through. Some of our best players as a country arent in the squad or arent ready yet.

About Sweden game:

Rehagel was angry and things didnt go to plan. Sweden came out defensively, and blocked anything we could make.....they did great, tactically beat us 100%. Very smart coaching from the Swedes. The players all say they didnt know what happened and didnt mean to play like that. I beleive them this time. I mean we know the team isnt that bad from qualifying, I doubt thats completley lost - lets wait and see. Russia is missing a lot of players, they have a great team and coach, and certainly tough game.

But if we go out there and find our qualifying selves.........

How many people doubt we can win that game?

[as5664]

Coach Otto Rehhagel seemed yesterday to have just returned to the drawing board, in setting up his team lineup by replacing striker Giorgos Samaras and Nikos Lymperopoulos with defender Paraskevas Antzas and center forward Fanis Gekas. He is switching from Tuesday’s 4-5-1 formation, which was more defense-orientated, to a much more aggressive one of 4-3-3, which had given Greece the top spot in the qualification round.

Who in the world was the kokoromialo who wrote this article???

[as5664]

I just have one thing to add. The 4-3-3 is not the right tactic for Russia. This is going to be a 3-0 rout. We should have taken advantage and played 4-3-3 against Sweden. Why not just do what we did four years ago and play 4-4-2 like all the other normal people. As it stands this is going to be a big shame for years to come just like 1994. Otto should leave, if he has not control over the players he should go and if he is telling them to play badly he should leave.

A

I disagree. Russia can be a very attack oriented team and we need to put them on the defensive. In either case, they will have few attack options due to injuries and suspensions. If we can't handle Russia with our comfortable 4-3-3 then perhaps it is better that we don't qualify for the next round.

I would prefer a 4-3-2-1 and leave the wings to Torosidis and Seitaridis, or Toro on right and Spyropoulos on left (which I prefer but Otto won't play for whatever reason). I also think the 4-3-2-1 with Giannakopoulos/Amanatidis as right striker, Gekas center, and Samaras/Charisteas as right strikers would be preferable.

In fact, I see Otto playing this tactic because it is arguably more flexible between defense and attack, and more suitable to the abilities of our strikers. Just my opinion. Perhaps we won't be so lucky with the Russians. I hope we don't see 2-0 in the first 10 minutes of play like the last time.

I don't know, however, I don't see us coming out of this one. I hope it's not like Turkey where we managed scored 1 out of 25 shots on goal. Remember we had some luck on our side that game, as the Turks made many crossbars and near misses when our defenses were down.

[drakos13]

derby says:

Vyntra and Salpiggidis possibly starting...

im not sure if thats a good idea. Salpi at least for the ethniki will be playing on a wing and not as a central striker, in which case he cannot play a lone striker... I still even as a PAO fan have no faith in Salpiggidis, I really just dont think hes that good. Id rather have Gkekas, Lybe, Amanatidis....

Vyntra is a 'scary thought' but hes been so much better this year. Some games in fact hes been terrific. Hard to beleive, but its true. Hopefully we get one of his stronger games.

[as5664]

http://canadianpress.google.com/article/AL...DIpn47rOVDWYowA

Hiddink seems to be trying to goad Greece into playing a more attacking style on Saturday.

"I think as European champion you should take a little bit more initiative," Hiddink said. "But OK, that's their way of playing, we have to deal with that."

Russia didn't deal with that style of play against Spain, attacking early and then giving the ball away too easily to set up Spanish counterattacks.

Okay, is it just me or does this sound like a shameless ruse? Is Hiddingk trying to use reverse psychology on our team? I think he really wants us to play defensively, and so offers his perspective on the issue, which we of course are not supposed to trust. I don't think they will be prepared for an offensive Greece.

[cyberfish]

I am sure Otto has a surprise up his sleve like always even though we have made our bed and I don't think a drastic transformation of the team is possible at the moment. But, I don't see why we can't put players in a position where they can excel and help our team play better.

Most importantly, I hope we see some more spirit and hustle on the pitch from our players. I don't care if we concede 3 goals in the last ten minutes because our players are too tired from running too hard all game long. But I do mind when we concede two goals before 60 because we have not been running enough.

Anyway, this is what I hope to see tomorrow:

-------------------Nikopolidis------------------

Torosidis---Delas--Kyriakos--Spyropoulos

-------Basinas--Katsouranis--Karagounis

Amanatidis---------------------------Samaras

------------------Charisteas------------------

Polishing that crystal ball: 2-1 for Greece two goals by Dellas, the second in 92' :gr:

[Guest geok]

A passing string of thoughts:

Ok we lost the first game. The remaining 2 games can be seen as prematurely entering the knockout stage: you have to win them both to go through.

I am curious about the performance tomorrow. We should not write them off just yet.

I saw some highlights of our game vs Sweden. Dellas, despite loving him, has to stop playing for the NT. We need fast defenders for this tomorrow. I saw svensson passing him as if he was not there and I remembered of the 4th goal that Turkey scored. These are the times where a papastathopoulos is needed.

Anyway, I'd like to see tomorrow:

-----------------------------------Nikopolidis (because there is no Chalkias)

Torosidis (in his right side)------Katsouranis--------Kyriakos------SpyropoulosVyntra

Stelios-------------------Karagounis-----------------Basinas----------------Tziolis

-------------------------------Gkekas-------------Salpiggidis

When Otto announces the 11 I think we will then be able to predict the outcome.

[aekrossoponti]

my tolerance level of otto is slowly disappating - there are only 3 matches here at the euro. greece pissed one away (against an inferior sweden side - look what n. ireland did against them) for absolutely no reason.

very true. sums up my gut feeling after seeing the game quite well. this swedish team was a team we can beat. now its very hard to go to the next round as we will probably have to beat spain.

if all is not over after tomorrow game that is...

[as5664]

http://www.fifa.com/confederationcup/news/...sid=801287.html

"On the pitch one is asked many questions and if you don't answer them, you lose, look what happened on Thursday: Poland were beating Austria 1-0 until injury time, then a defender pulls an opponent's shirt and it ends up being 1-1. We did the same thing against Sweden we didn't mark (Zlatan) Ibrahimovic and he scored which ruined our match.

A team scoring 1 goal ruins a match?? HUH?? :la:

Rehhagel said he was expecting an all-out assault by the Russians, who themselves are desperate for a win after losing 4-1 to Spain.

"They are young, and when they get going they are difficult to stop, that is why we must defend. Our players always give 100 per cent, but we are not a team who can pile on the goals. We do not have an Ibrahimovic, but we do have our own players.

I have a feeling we haven't seen the last of 5-3-2 :unsure: If Otto plays 4-3-3 it is as if he caved to media pressure, his ego won't allow that, especially after Tsiartas's criticism. It would have been better if nothing had been said.

[Genome]

If he plays that 5-3-2 (5-4-1?) again with the endless backpassing and passes at the backline, we'll be extremely lucky to walk away with a draw.

[Olympiakara10]

Wow, stubborn Otto is going to have us finish last.

[loup]

Still psyched for this one

:gr: :gr: :gr: :gr: :gr:

lets go boys

2-1

Charisteas and Torosidis

:gr: :gr: :gr: :gr: :gr: :gr:

[OFI-mtl]

Wow, stubborn Otto is going to have us finish last.

This is what I dont get. 5-4-1 or 5-3-2 are just formations. If the tactics are to attack then you can attack from these formations.

I just finished watching the 04 opener and we lined up 4-5-1 but Stelios and Charisteas were supporting Vryzas (by the way the guy was a horse with nice touch) and our 2 backs Fyssas and Giourkas were up and down their lines ( A great cross from Vryzas to Fyssas on the 1 time volley was nice to see). Otto had the boys on top of the ball.

Can we lay off the German ...yes he deserves some ripping from a campaign of 4-3-3 and then going 5-4-1....but still you can play defensive but when you have the ball DO SOMETHING with it ...Otto can not jump in and show 11 pros how to advance a ball. The game is on the players he coach puts them in a position to succeed and they have to EXECUTE.

At the end of the half ...like it or not ..Greece had 3 shots on target and the Swedes had 0....yes it was ugly football ..I know.Good on the Swedes they beat us at our own waiting game.

I am not an Otto supporter when it comes to his selections,but I will never sit here and say I can put a better product with these players....WE HAVE NO mids who can link up with the FWDS ( are supposed strength)

Hellas 3-2 tommorrow hold onto your hats :gr:

Nikopolidis,Torosidis,Dellas,Soto,Spyropoulos,Basinas,Katsouranis,Karagounis,Samaras,Lybe,Amanatidis.

Hellas GERA!!! Gera!!! :box:

[drakos13]

This is what I dont get. 5-4-1 or 5-3-2 are just formations. If the tactics are to attack then you can attack from these formations.

Can we?

Otto gave some devastating comments about defense today. I have faith, but not under what we did last tuesday. We are going to do the exact same thing apparently.

http://www.fifa.com/confederationcup/news/...sid=801287.html

you can criticise, you can say that we play defensively, but if we play too offensively, we will lose, there is not 1 per cent guarantee of winning because one goes on the attack.

He is right- BUT

There is ZERO percent of winning if you dont score goals. There is extremely less of a chance of getting goals, if you dont go forward at all.

Rehhagel said he was expecting an all-out assault by the Russians, who themselves are desperate for a win after losing 4-1 to Spain.

"They are young, and when they get going they are difficult to stop, that is why we must defend. Our players always give 100 per cent, but we are not a team who can pile on the goals. We do not have an Ibrahimovic, but we do have our own players.

WE MUST DEFEND!

but if we dont attack, we wont WIN !!!!!!!!!!

RISK IT ! WE HAVE GREAT PLAYERS UP FRONT WHO CAN SCORE! LET THEM PLAY THE BALL - THINK ABOUT IT - THE MORE WE HAVE THE BALL ON THEIR SIDE , they have less time to build up offensive rythm and we might actually put one in!!!!!!!

Im sorry but Otto is simply an idiot to start the game defensivley.

Im ALL FOR conservative play - but this is ridiculous.

What we should do is start the 4-3-3 and try to be cautious and score our goal.

If Otto wants to THEN change it to 5-4-1 GREAT IDEA.

BUT WE NEED A GOAL FIRST !!!!!!! YOU CANT PLAY LIKE YOUR 1-0 UP AT 0-0!!!