GREECE v. RUSSIA @ Euro 2008

[plato-ny]

Since Otto had 5 defenders against Sweden, why doesnt he double up the ante and put in 10 defenders against Russia?

[cyberfish]

Otto has me confused again.

Eveyrone seems to agree that our strength is our CB and DM positions and that our weakness is our offense.

In my book, you leave your strength alone and you fortify your weaknesses. What does Otto do? He piles even more CB's on the pitch, and everyone else is busy helping them and the DMs instead of the opposite.

My feeling is that our CBs can do their job without help, and so can our DM's. Those who need help are our strikers. They can't really take on a defense on their own. They need help from both the fullbacks and the extra midfielder.

As strange as it sounds, statistically Greece played on par with Sweden (which does not say much) and could have scored their staple one goal. So I don't think we'll see drastic changes. I think the only change will be in fielding only two CBs and probably we'll see an extra midfielder instead (probably Giannakopoulos).

However, schemes can only take you so far. If the players take the field determined to put forth the minimum possible effort (as they did against Sweden) not only we'll lose the game, we'll become one of the most disliked teams in the history of football.

[plato-ny]

[plato-ny]

[plato-ny]

[PAO_OR_DEATH]

call me crazy (again) but this match has A LOT riding on it, the obvious looser goes home but this is not only GREECE V RUSSIA, its GERMANY V THE NETHERLANDS (Im told these two nations just dont get along, maybe it was WWII?? i duno)

for this reason alone i expect otto to atleast play for his German pride and make some changes. I hope he does, i really dislike Gus Hidink hes way too up his own behind

[Guest geok]

Otto's best bet at winning this game is going into the game with 2 plans.

Otto should field a line-up thats versatile - able to switch positions for the other plan.

If for example, the Russians open the gates in the back and try and overload us ---- go for the 5-4-1 , because it will be much more effective.

But if they do Sweden did, we need something else. Period.

------------------------Nikopolidis-------------------------

Seitaridis--------Dellas--------Kyrgiakos-------Torosidis

--------------Patsatzoglou-----------Basinas---------------------

--------------------------Katsouranis---------------------

Charisteas------------------------------------Karagounis

-------------------------Gkekas---------------------

But that can easily switch to upon command, if the game plan is not working or vulnerable......give it a code name, arrange it on a set peice and good to go within a few minutes. Practice both obviously.

----------------------Nikopolidis---------------------------

Seitaridis--------Dellas---Kyrgiakos----Patsatzoglou----Torosidis

------------- ----Basinas ----Katsouranis----------------------------

-Charisteas---------------------------------------Karagkounis

-----------------------Gkekas----------------------------------------

someone out there wrote that Russia play a 3-5-2,;I didn't see that, it was a 4-3-2-1 I think.

Anyway we need to win and because we need to do that, if I were Otto I'd be deciding among the following two:

----------------------------------Nikopolidis (well because we have no-one else).

----Torosidis (in his right side)------Katsouranis------Kyriakos-------------Vyntra

-----------Stelios------------------------------Kara---------------------------Basinas

----------------------Amanatidis------------Gekas-----------------Salpiggidis

or

---------------------------------------Nikopolidis (well because we have no-one else).

----Torosidis (in his right side)------Katsouranis----------Kyriakos-------------Vyntra

-----------Stelios-----------------Tziolis----------Kara---------------------Basinas

----------------------------------Gekas----------------Salpiggidis

I know that it is mad but after the madness of the first game we have to do madness to get through this group. More (madness) to follow.

[Genome]

I hope he goes for a 4-3-3. Whatever he does and even though I'm still very disappointed in our result, I do have faith in Otto...

[loup]

otto sounds pissed with the mids -- bt who is going to come in????

stelios for kara?

patsa or antzas for basinas or kats in a 4-3-3????

not too promisiing

or does he start 4 forwards like he did last time with Russia??

[evalagoal]

I tell you who needs to go in fellas... It has to be the one(s) that are going to play w/ heart... Most of these players are there for their last European Competition and they need to show it, just as if it was their first.

We need PATHOS in this tournament like we had in 04'

[as5664]

http://canadianpress.google.com/article/AL...rjDnMz9etrTZEDw

Former Greece star Vassilis Tsiartas, who was influential in Greece's Euro 2004 success, led the attack.

"What can you say about the coach? The only thing he thinks about is securing a draw. If we conceded a goal then that totally messes up his game plan," Tsiartas said. "I can't understand why we can't play a more attacking game. We have players that give us different options."

After Tuesday's game, Greece strikers complained they had been abandoned to the Swedish defense and called for lineup changes to boost attacking options.

"We only had two chances in the whole 90 minutes ... It's out of the question to talk about qualifying from the group if we play this way," attacking midfielder Yiannis Amantidis said. "The Russia game will be like a cup final for us. We have to fix our mistakes and play a more attacking game."

[drakos13]

well Tsiartas opinion shouldnt be written off.....he was a great player, and hes entirely right. The game plan was pointless, it was going there 90 minutes hoping they wouldnt score - and if they do, then what? We had no backup!

We also needed a Tsartas in 2004, to save our asses from set peices and that final touch...the equivalent (and improved) would have been Ninis, to have as a supersub just for that final pass on offense, which is something he is truly great at, and 18 years old means absolutley nothing when thats all we need, someone who can deliver the final corner, find the best pass to cut defenses.......and Ninis can do that and more.

[athinaios]

Well, I don't know if you watched Croatia v. Germany today (2-1)!!! I have to say, I admired Croatia's game plan and performance. They played to WIN. You could see that even when they were up by 2, they kept the pressure on, attacking, and not wasting time.

Even when Germany scored (2-1), Croatia kept pressing and had better chances to score!!! :tup:

Why Croatia can do that and Greece couldn't? It's a totally different mentality. I can bet you a million bucks that if Greece happened to be up by 2, their mentality would be to waste time, deconstructive game.....

[Guest geok]

I tell you who needs to go in fellas... It has to be the one(s) that are going to play w/ heart... Most of these players are there for their last European Competition and they need to show it, just as if it was their first.

We need PATHOS in this tournament like we had in 04'

100% agreed. Look how Croatia played a few minutes ago and even Turkey were impressive. The Greek millionaires must show some hearts in the next two games.

[Guest geok]

We also needed a Tsartas in 2004, to save our asses from set peices and that final touch...the equivalent (and improved) would have been Ninis, to have as a supersub just for that final pass on offense, which is something he is truly great at, and 18 years old means absolutley nothing when thats all we need, someone who can deliver the final corner, find the best pass to cut defenses.......and Ninis can do that and more.

Now it is safe to say that Otto made a huge mistake that did not take Ninis. And many phantis members correctly spotted that. The German is not beyong mistake. In fact he makes a lot.

[as5664]

Well, I don't know if you watched Croatia v. Germany today (2-1)!!! I have to say, I admired Croatia's game plan and performance. They played to WIN. You could see that even when they were up by 2, they kept the pressure on, attacking, and not wasting time.

Even when Germany scored (2-1), Croatia kept pressing and had better chances to score!!! :tup:

Why Croatia can do that and Greece couldn't? It's a totally different mentality. I can bet you a million bucks that if Greece happened to be up by 2, their mentality would be to waste time, deconstructive game.....

The Croats wasted time as well, that is the sign of an experienced team. Our problem is the reverse: we waste time when the score is 0-0. We play like we are already in the lead by 2!

Tsiartas's insights as a former player should bring to light at least one thing; all this talk about the players not playing with heart is Otto's sorry attempt to defend his tactical decision (and possibly ego).

Tsiartas made this very revealing comment for a particular reason. Remember the patty-cake passing, which Otto claimed was not of his doing?? Well, guess what -- It was all Otto. Like someone else said here earlier, Otto's "secret weapon" was to play more defensively. We were shamelessly playing for a 0-0 draw, and hoping for the off chance of a good set piece, or possible counter attack. And the Swedes did not give us this chance.

Unfortunately, we cannot defy the laws of probability; when we crawl into defensive mode and give a team so many chances, likelihood is that they will get at least one--In this case they happened to get 2.

The Norway match away was proof of how vulnerable Otto's "5-3-2" makes us. But at least back then we could say we were in a comfortable position and only needed to grind out a draw.

Aek66, much to his credit, has warned us all along about the 5-3-2 scheme, and even predicted Otto selecting it during Sweden. I expected we would play it against Spain, but never imagined Otto would use it against Sweden. In baseball, it is advised that you always swing for the fist pitch, no matter how it looks coming at you. I figured Otto would take this very analagous and logical approach to the Sweden match.

I always gave Otto the benefit of the doubt, and naively assumed he would make drastic changes for the Euro, especially since everyone was expecting us to play on the defensive and were largely unaware of some of our offensive triumphs during qualifications.

Unfortunately, Otto follows a relentless and predictable pattern. He only makes changes when we are up against a wall. Up until a couple of days ago, we were playing with a team dynamic that emerged post 4-1 loss to Turkey.

[aek21]

Ninis played once for Greece and he is still very young, not much can honestly be expected of him. The team selection was based purely on what works best for a cohesive unit, hence the exclusion of players who haven't had much time to settle into the NT. That said, the seeds have been planted for them to feature for Greece in later years and I can't wait to see him and Papastathopoulos rip it up.

Tsiartas obviously never was a fan of Otto, but he makes some very good points. The team has greater potential offensively than showcased and it was obvious Greece went out looking for a result that woudn't have the team on the losing end as opposed to just going for the win like Sweden did. I feel like Greece relies too heavily on set-pieces and on luck in order to score, even though they don't have to. Its dissapointing not to see one single of the forwards being put to good use. Its also odd to hear Otto say Greece doesn't have the attacking exploits of Germany, even though Gekas was the top goalscorer in Germany a year ago, an honour which only Klose can lay claim to for the German NT. I'm not trying to say Greece is better than or even equal to Germany offensively, but we do have wonderful options upfront that can't be ignored.

Anyways Greece have some luck on their side, it appears that Pavlyuchenko is injured and won't be playing in the up-coming encounter. Kostaki must have a headache because of all the key players he's missing.

[Olympiakara10]

Speaking of attacking play, Austria missed 3 chances at goal against Poland and are unlucky to be down 1-0 at the half. They also outplayed Croatia in their last game.

There's a team that's worse than Greece and has more success attacking than us. Why? Because the formation is set up for them to have success.

It's laughable that Otto says we don't have the players when every team has had some success and played better than Greece did in their first game. We have the players, Otto just didn't or doesn't utilize them. It's really a joke to say we would get destroyed against Sweden if we plays 4-3-3 or 4-4-2 meanwhile other teams like Austria do very well while playing those formations.

Rehhagel still thinks its 2004. It's time to retire and not further ruin your reputation.

[DUDE]

We also needed a Tsartas in 2004, to save our asses from set peices and that final touch...the equivalent (and improved) would have been Ninis,

These comments are just getting better and better! :D

Ninis is a great youngster and he should be in the squad, it's nuts that he isn't, but and improved option over the 2004 Tsiartas? Do you even watch football re?

[Irlandos]

Olympiakara10, you missed the point!

Poland played as stinking lousy as we did and are still 1-0 UP!

THERE IS HOPE FOR A CRAP SIDE LIKE US!!! :tup:

[OFI-mtl]

Otto's best bet at winning this game is going into the game with 2 plans.

Otto should field a line-up thats versatile - able to switch positions for the other plan.

If for example, the Russians open the gates in the back and try and overload us ---- go for the 5-4-1 , because it will be much more effective.

But if they do Sweden did, we need something else. Period.

------------------------Nikopolidis-------------------------

Seitaridis--------Dellas--------Kyrgiakos-------Torosidis

--------------Patsatzoglou-----------Basinas---------------------

--------------------------Katsouranis---------------------

Charisteas------------------------------------Karagounis

-------------------------Gkekas---------------------

But that can easily switch to upon command, if the game plan is not working or vulnerable......give it a code name, arrange it on a set peice and good to go within a few minutes. Practice both obviously.

----------------------Nikopolidis---------------------------

Seitaridis--------Dellas---Kyrgiakos----Patsatzoglou----Torosidis

------------- ----Basinas ----Katsouranis----------------------------

-Charisteas---------------------------------------Karagkounis

-----------------------Gkekas----------------------------------------

Wait a second here....where is Amanatidis....I've seen enuff of Basinas

Nikolpolidis ..because we have to

Giourkas, Dellas, Soto(Capt!),Spyropoulos

Katsouranis Torosidis

Karagounis

Salpi Gekas Amanatidis

In 04 even after a win Otto made changes vs Spain. I am no fan of Salpi....but we need to chase and run to win... Amanatidis and Salpi will provide plenty of energy.

[DUDE]

Well, I don't know if you watched Croatia v. Germany today (2-1)!!! I have to say, I admired Croatia's game plan and performance. They played to WIN. You could see that even when they were up by 2, they kept the pressure on, attacking, and not wasting time.

Even when Germany scored (2-1), Croatia kept pressing and had better chances to score!!! :tup:

Why Croatia can do that and Greece couldn't? It's a totally different mentality. I can bet you a million bucks that if Greece happened to be up by 2, their mentality would be to waste time, deconstructive game.....

Hi mate, how are you?

I don't think there's a right or wrong way to approach he game if you're 2-0 up... It depends on the footballing culture you employ. Having grown up in the UK I like the idea of pursuing a third goal... having said that I don't like going for it in the typical Man Utd or England NT gung-ho-style. I like my teams to be a bit more modest and to hit on the counter-attack very quickly, like Arsenal or Roma.

However the Italians, the traditional Germans and teams like Chelsea, like to strangle a game when 2-0 up.

Both systems have their benefits and negatives. There are 2 key facets which make all 3 systems (gung-ho attacking, counter-attacking, and defensive)acceptable and workable. They are:

1) The ability to go 2-0 up in the first place... Man Utd, Arsenal, and Chelsea have the ability to get goals... Greece struggle with this.

2) An outlet... when attacking incesantly to look for a 3rd goal, or counter-attacking swiftly, or defending resolutely, it is essential that your team can retain possession. Greece can't do this because the movement in midfield is non-existent!!!

These 2 elusive facets are major problems in enabling us to get goals and to then defend a lead while still offering a threat. This is why I don't think we can beat Russia.

[Irlandos]

... Amanatidis and Salpi will provide plenty of energy.

Not if they ain't being fed by the midfield they won't :nono:

PS. I see Poland's lousy football did not win the game...Forget what I said! There's NO hope on Earth for us! :(

[OFI-mtl]

... Amanatidis and Salpi will provide plenty of energy.

Not if they ain't being fed by the midfield they won't :nono:

PS. I see Poland's lousy football did not win the game...Forget what I said! There's NO hope on Earth for us! :(

Well I'm hoping the addition of Torosidis will add a more physical and faster presence at the midfield ...thus more support to our STRIKE FORCE :whistle:

[as5664]

Euro 2008 - Pavlyuchenko injured

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/12062008/58/...ko-injured.html

It appears the Russians will be another man short on Saturday. If we lose, it will then be abundantly clear to everyone that we, and Otto, are nothing but amateurs.