[nightsurfer]

On this transmission they..said...as soon as people like Murdoch appeared into the "News" scene.....you can't count the Medias to the 4th power.....because the big money (Capital) is ruling the medias........and you can't talk...about "INFORMATION"........you must speak..about "MANIPULATION" of the mass.

And now I give an example of what is going on in Greece with the press.

++

Yesterday I was listening in the EPA Spor the broadcast "H Palioparia"...... the well known journalist Mr. Saridakis (PAO) informed the people.......that during the friendly game....PAO - Apollonas......a fan has been threatened by a robber with a knife.....in the stadium.....the robber forced the fan out of the stadium by threating him with his knife....in an dark silent place he took all his values including his mobile phone.....

The next day ...a journalist wrote that ..in the press.....(because this is his duty as a journalist).........BUT somebody of the PAO leaders did not like.....the report...for what ever reasons ????.....He called the newspaper...and the journalist lost his job.......

In the same transmission was also the known journalist Mr Drakos (OSFP).......he lost his job in the newspaper FOS...as well (not yesterday)........because although he is a fan of OSFP...he wrote his opinion about OSFP......, which some leaders of OSFP did not like it ..... ........

This is the reality.....the other reality is the record of the Greek Champion... who dominates the Greek Championship for years........though in Europe has the worse record.......even worser than PAOK.......

This is the reality.......

[kilmanrok]

even worser than PAOK.......

Actually, PAOK has a pretty decent record in Europe :)

Another sad story is that of dr. Tzouroudis, PAO's doc. In an article presented in sport.gr a few days ago, it was implied that dr Tzouroudis had diagnosed the problem from the first time he examined Maric. And so, because his diagnosis was confirmed by Maric's current state, it was either a matter of him, or mr Zajec getting fired.

Sad, it seems, is the day when you're up against mr Zajec in PAO.

[Go:bekli]

nightsurfer, kilmanrock

Although I agree, more or less, with most of the points you raise, I do so with differing degrees of enthusiasm and draw somewhat different to quite different conclusions which I will discuss, should you desire to do so, in the other section of the forums where this discussion really belongs (my opinion).

Let me then simply pick up a small point by nightsurfer that demonstrates, again my opinion, how facts meeting unstated assumptions lead to doubtful conclusions.

This is the reality.....the other reality is the record of the Greek Champion... who dominates the Greek Championship for years........though in Europe has the worse record.......even worser than PAOK.......

If one believes that how well a team does is a reflection of some notion of true worth that allows for consistent rankings, then, indeed, continued success in Greece and failure abroad looks extremely suspicious. Is this necessarily the case?

Let me lead then with my own counterexamples:

1) In chess there have been through the years triplets of players (A,B,C) such that A would consistently beat B, B would beat C, C would beat A.

2) I knew a fellow who was wonderful at teaching fundamentals and when he was coaching very young teams, his teams were the terror of the league. Whenever he tried to coach teams of more mature players at highr levels, he was a disaster.

3) I have known through the years one-dimensional players who would rely either exclusively on technique or physical prowess. They would appear brillant at a low level, they would become nil at a higher one. Nevertheless, players who had modest physical and technical skills and a reasonable understanding of the game, while not dominant at low levels would give a decent account of themselves at the next one.

Let us come now to the Greek league. It is obvious that there is agreat inequality in team strength and that the Greek champion, whoever he is, is the one who will lose the fewer points to the "lesser" teams. Given that the lesser teams play ferocious defense and the current point system (3-1-0), the recipe for success in Greece for a dominant team is simple and straightforward. Make sure that you can score a lot of goals against defenses of many low quality players, defense is not that important. This is, of course, a recipe that will doom you in CL where you will not face, as a rule, outmatched opponents giving their last breath for a 0-0 tie. The Giovanis of this world can destabilize on their own a B defense but not an A-defense.

Once this happens, you realize that a lot of other "statistics" and/or disputes become less relevant than they appear to be. If, for instance, OSFP creates more scoring opportunities than team X, then, all other things being equal, you would expect OSFP to get more penalty calls. If referees are on the average fooled one time out of ten, you would expect more false calls to favor OSFP rather than team X. And so on and so forth.

So, while I am willing to entertain the possibility that OSFP's wins were bought, I am equally willing to entertain the possibility that the collections of statistics that are bandied around are not relevant. And since I find championships or any other form of succes mildly pleasant but not terribly important, I refuse to take all that stuff seriously.

I am happy that PAOK did well in Europe, will be happier if he does better, and I do not see how PAOK's success affects negatively OSFP.

[Go:bekli]

[kilmanrok]

[Go:bekli]

[kilmanrok]

[nightsurfer]

I m realy astonished that you guys just ignored...what happened with these journalists........... off course things are rotten ..when you read incidents like that.......

as for the European Records....is not that from the last year....but table of the last yearS (plural)........ This fact proves the fishy business too

[Go:bekli]

Noone ignored anything. For truth to be known it is not necessary that the whole press be independent, it is not even necessary that any newspaper or equivalent be independent and truth loving.

It is sufficient that the interests that shape what news is and how it should be presented not coincide. E.g., for as long as

[Go:bekli]

[Go:bekli]

[Elastonpappou 13]

[Go:bekli]

[Elastonpappou 13]

[Go:bekli]

1)

[Go:bekli]

[Elastonpappou 13]

[Go:bekli]

[Elastonpappou 13]

[Go:bekli]

[Elastonpappou 13]

[Evergreen]

[Go:bekli]

1) sthn fash auth o Sanmartean epestrefe apo 8esh off-side enw o Munch evgaine mprosta apo kanonikotath 8esh. To pa8itiko offside, den einai pleon offside apo thn stigmh pou o paixths pou einai offside den uphreazei to optiko pedio tou termatofulaka. Sthn prokeimenei periptwsh h fash auth ektelix8hke sthn plagia grammh out kapou 30 metra apo to terma tou Arh kai oxi tipote allo, alla o Arhs prolava kai gurise. Twra sto oti o Olisadebe xorepse 2 amuntikous prin strwsei ton Michaelsen einai allh istoria.

2) Paradexomai oti den phre o mati mou thn fash auth, all oute edeikse tipota replay h TV. Posa site kanoune anafora sthn epikeimenh agkwnia tou Vintra, ston Kampantah?

1)

[Go:bekli]

[kilmanrok]

Go:bekli,