val

My initial thoughts are that it was empty and seeing the way the game was going, he knew if he milks it, paok can get the points outside the pitch. Hell if villafanez milked it, we may have just got the game also. Regardless, assessing the severity of the incidents is not the way to go about it. The moment something is thrown, game over. These idiots continue to throw s%$#! because they are well aware of the possibility that their respective team can get away with merely a small fine.

Really? It's a cracker, it doesn't have to hit the player. As long as it lands next to him when it goes off, it can cause damage in more ways than one. People shouldn't be throwing s%$#!. If you guys got a fine, then we should also. If we get points taken off, then so should you. Can you not see the injustice?

Right decision to abandon, should've happened immediately but why wasn't the cup game abandoned when the cracker was thrown at villafanez? Does a coach have privileges over a player?

They reinforced that area where ivic got hit after the incident lol. Only in greece. Should we get punished? Hell yes. But should paok have been punished for the fire cracker thrown at villafanez? Off-course. What about anastasiou being hit at karaiskaki? What happened there? Every team has idiots, but not all respective clubs get punished equally.

A good game between the two in form sides. We were better though. Lucas was everywhere, good feet as usual and fought for every ball. If only he filled the stat sheet more...but hey if that were the case, he wouldn't be playing in greece. I think if masoud was a little younger, you sign him in a heart beat.

^^Not enough depth to compete and be effective in that many games.

Thus far, our lack of quality hasn't been an issue simply because our opponents have mostly been deadbeats. This game is different though because belgium host some great technically gifted players. Not sure how much martinez has changed but having watched them in the euros, team belief and togetherness was lacking. I mean they made light work of easier opponents but struggled against well organized, resilient sides where mental strength becomes a factor. I wouldn't say that skibbe's side fits the above description but there is a sense of belief amongst the group that has been transparent in the performances. Hate to finish on a sour note, but that center back pairing doesn't not give confidence at all. We have been accustom to being defensively sound, but we can't really say that about this team. Good luck to the boys!

Whilst the rest were sleeping, u guys picked up a good player in warda. I remember watching a panetolikos game where i was impressed with his close control. Kid has good feet. Should he learn to score, he will make savidis even richer.

Oly blows. We have said it before, their mental strength outweighs their quality. They have no business beating paok but time and time again they have mustered out results. Hopefully bento plays the kids and cardoso (great player once upon a time).

^^^I had this idea a few years back. When many in the pao forums were raving about his technical ability, i saw other traits and concluded that he needs a change of position. I said the same about salpi. Wingers that are technically limited but show defensive discipline should be tried out at fullbacks. Back in the day salpi would always protect his fullback. This also proves how behind we are in terms of innovation and thinking. The germans take our wingers and convert them to fullbacks. They did the same with vieirinha.

How about his defending on leverkusen's first goal? Out of position, outpaced and outmuscled.

There were times when he did stand out at the back, but these days he is too passive for me.

Tougher tests to come... Seems like the team we be built on a 4-2-3-1 shape. As we have said in the past, this compensates for lacking complete midfielders that can contribute to multiple phases. Kourbelis looks a better player than zeca, but then again its zeca. Boumal is playing to save his pao career. Klonaridis has goals in him, just never really been consistent. Should this change, we may just have an asset.

Europe or league? @Bananas, you came close to knocking them out

How can you say that after watching the game? Schalke were untroubled, quite the opposite last time around.

^Try to understand that those currently earning a living talking and writing about football are clueless simply because those that hire them are clueless themselves. It's rare to find someone in the media that has sound knowledge of the game. In greece for instance, there are only two i can think of that deserve the money they earn. One works radio and the other writes for contra.gr If you go back to the previous pages, i have voiced a similar opinion after observing him over the years. I think we can agree that bayern have first presence in Germany with respect to player recruitment. If sokratis was better, he would be at bayern and not hummels.

A few seasons back when these two met, it was much, much closer. Today paok looked defeated no matter how well they played. The difference in quality is all too obvious. That's what happens when you sell your best players.

Watching hummels and sokratis play over the last two days, it's laughable that sokratis is even in the conversation for best defender in germany.

The guy is lazy but he lives in the box and has good awareness. He would thrive on a team that statistically do well in sending the ball in the box.

Actually they are a lot better. They had no trouble calving them open, on another day they win comfortably. Benfica, who other than the weight of their shirt, are a very average team.

^^Too much of a panic buy for me. Again i'm all for bringing in younger players but we have to be mindful that, this isn't the earlier 2000's were you had genuine talent coming through. I was in greece in 1993, 2000 and again in 2009, 2012 and 2013. The amount of kids playing on the street has declined significantly, whilst the ones that end up in academies are usually not taught well. What's happened since 2000, is that the talent has dried up and we have failed to establish a legitimate market outside the country. The Portuguese for instance have South America, ajax have Scandinavia, whilst we continue to neglect rocha.

The team bled in those european games i mentioned and were not justified. It's never easy to pick you players up after these performances nor is it easy to play two games in the space of a few days. How many games was ledesma and zeca asked to play? What other options did strama have? Lod, reis, koutroubis - these guys might as well be playing for some of the smaller league sides because they are not pao material.

^^Ledesma actually failed his medical and yet we still signed him which is indicative of our management. Essien's injuries were well documented prior to him coming over. Unlike these bums, melo can actually give you minutes, not to mention he competes and would've installed some life in our midfield. Offcourse a club has to be sustainable and bring in younger players but they also have to offer some value. I don't see enough in kourbelis to justify spending 700k. Also regarding our debt, we had no issues spending a healthy fee for a sub-par player.

Have you see melo play? Defensively sound and very good on the ball, not to mention experience playing at the highest level. Kourbelis is not fit to tie his laces. The previous sides had a core of greek players, but these were great players. If we had 11 kourbelis type players back then, we would not be talking about these sides. Regarding playing for the shirt. Times have changed, these greek kids coming through don't have the same mentality.

^^Celta my mistake. This is rather pessimistic to focus on the last 10min and dismiss the 80min prior, whereby he put on a coaching clinic. It's not strama's fault he had no depth. It was always a death sentence trying to compete in all competitions.