js1000

http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150803/1025343390.html Seems they want their pound of flesh, more privatisation more of Greece to be owned by creditors. These guys are insatiable they won't stop till they own it all, and in return we get a 'bailout' that will last for 3 years and the Greek people will have higher taxes, worse pensions and VAT hikes in return. What a great deal, we're on the road to recovery.

He does talk some sense, but i certainly don't trust varoufakis, particularly as he was standing up for Mario Draghi, former goldman banker, governor of the bank of Italy and president of the European Central bank. Anything Draghi does would be for the benefit of the banks. Varoufakis seems to have friends in high places.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/08/03/greece-succombs-to-imperialist-banksterism/ the above is the best article i've read on Greece's financial state.

http://www.activistpost.com/2015/07/turkeys-war-on-kurds-isis-air-force.html Interesting read for anyone interested.

Arrested? you're joking not one banker got touched despite causing the crisis, how many UK MPs who got busted for fiddling their expenses and putting family members on the payroll and claimed money for mortgages that had already been paid off, how many of those in my wonderful civilised western country got arrested??? SYRIZA have already overthrown democracy, the moment they ignored the referendum result. http://greece.greekreporter.com/2015/07/25/this-is-the-end-of-the-line-for-syriza/ Beppe: Nationalize Banks to Throw Off 'Anti-Democratic Straitjacket' of Eurozone Populist comedian-turned-politician calls for Italy to exit the Euro http://commondreams.org/news/2015/07/24/beppe-nationalize-banks-throw-anti-democratic-straitjacket-eurozone

As traumatic as a transition to the drachma will be, I really don't see any other option for Greece. What do you suggest, continue to receive bailouts that go straight back out to creditors and continue to lose what was previously state owned? Everything that's going on there now has happened whilst being members of this wonderful union with its generous subsidies. What do you suggest, to continue doing what the troika demand and hope things will improve?

Athens abandoned children. Skynews. this is why i weep when people demand staying in the union and continuing with their austerity programs, and using a currency where they can simply switch the supply on and off via capital controls whenever they feel like it. At what point do you say enough?

The union decides eh, the union also decides whether our banks have money in them for the functioning of Greece, the union decides how our subsidies are spent and the union decides who we can trade with. If the EU big shooters were that fed up with us then surely they'd have kicked us out, but they now have a Greek government that does what they say so they've got their own way, regardless of any referendum. This is what Greece are losing as part of the 3rd bailout demanded by the 'union' State lottery; horse betting; olympic venues; Athens international airport; 37 regional airports; port of piraeus and 100% of the shares of 11 other ports; some marinas and tourist resorts; state real estate, including on some islands; thermal springs on the mainland; Greek real estate holdings in New York, Belgrade and Washington; the public power corporation S.A which provides energy to the majority of the country. Others which might go as well are ELTA(postal service), 400 miles of roads, TRAINOSE(rail and bus transport) and ROSCO(which maintains Greek trains). At what point do you say enough? its not really Greece anymore is it? lets see how it pans out for Greece. I've certainly not heard what you've posted from anyone, the only thing i'd like is an exit from the EU/EZ, I'm not sure how bad it has to get before even you've had enough. That pretty much sums it up, but are Greece even allowed to insist on a 50% stake as part of the third bailout?

Nothing at all, the question is whether a private individual should take ownership of something thats run by the state and making money for the state, the private individuals nationality is neither here nor there. A bit like Roman Abramovich taking over a Russian asset and the profits going to his good self to do with as he pleases instead of going to the Russian state. No one is knocking private foreign investment/investors, just objecting to the looting of revenue generating assets. If a German wants to open up a chain of shops in Greece then goodluck to him, I'm all for it, its when they have control of things like airports that i object. Correct, which is why we need to exit this union because the decisions of this union are clearly not benefitting Greece. Really? even if not doing so is detrimental to Greece? And who gets to decide what response is 'politically & militarily satisfactory'? Anyone else who we should not have anything to do with because of their unsatisfactory behaviour, or is it just Russia? And you talk of hypocrisy? Just look no further than the respected countries we both live in. Unless you're German of course, but I think the land/asset grabs that have already taken place in Greece are more than sufficient, besides do lenders not bear any responsibility? do private lenders not have any risk associated with their lending? Or do they just get rich off the interest, dictate policy to their debtors, loot assets and have European tax payers guarantee that they're fully reimbursed+interest? Another reason why you should control your own currency http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-20/greek-economy-finished-quarter-firms-shifting-abroad

yes, i didn't want to start another thread, i decided this was the most appropriate place to post it.

I was only responding to your observation of hypocrisy, because for the UK, EU and US to demonise Russia is a tad rich, my point is i'm happy for Greece to trade with any rogue state if it benefits Greece(the UK & US do so all the time), sanctioning Russia does not benefit Greece, being members of a union swallowing up Greece's assets(further killing the states ability to generate revenue) doesn't benefit Greece, being in a monetary union where if you don't do as your told, they can switch off your money supply because you don't even control the currency you're using doesn't benefit Greece, increasing VAT making goods more expensive doesn't benefit Greece. You seemed to justify sanctions for Russia for their behaviour but seem oblivious to the behaviour of the UK and US, who continually take the moral high ground and call Greece corrupt with a straight face. The same UK who supply arms to the very Saudi's who we are told are bankrolling ISIS, they seem to have no problem trading/selling arms to them because it benefits the UK economy. So tell me, why shouldn't Greece trade with Russia? Add to that the fraud and the fact this entity hasn't been audited ever, which is why an exit is the only option, reform will only be effective after an exit, any revenues Greece generate now will disappear down the black hole that is the troika. I don't think Germany want us removed though, they want another bailout further down the line which comes with more privatisation and land grabs by their cronies.

60 Minutes Australia: Special Investigation Spies Lords and Predators https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=806&v=TGwTeR8Y8Qw http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3167647/Brittan-regular-paedophile-parties-Former-Home-Secretary-named-abuser-alleged-victim-Australian-TV-appearance.html

You're right about hypocrisy because no one demands sanctions against the US and UK for their disastrous intervention in Libya or for the Iraq invasion on the back of a lie or for providing saddam with the very gas we condemned him for using, or for trading with(supplying arms) Saudi Arabia who behead their own people and are bombing Yemen, or for supplying the Bahranian regime with equipment that they use on their own protestors. But Russia deserves sanctions because it took Crimea? without a shot in Crimea being fired, and you compare that with Turkey's actions in Cyprus? as though it was an identical scenario. You're like judge and jury regarding the commercial airliner that the Russians(or proxy Russian soldiers) allegedly shot down despite having absolutely no motive to do so. They may have, but until recorders/investigations are made public we don't know for sure. Aek, at what point do you say enough, how bad does it have to become before you want out of this union, the only point i agree with is that with an exit you would probably have to kiss Thraki goodbye, however staying in and we've kissed goodbye to virtually all revenue generating assets, which makes it difficult for the state to make money, so when they demand the people make up the shortfall through higher tax inferior pensions VAT hikes you can see why its hard to swallow for the people effected. As for the 50 billion fund, collateral seems to suggest we'll get them back, I think Wolfgang Schaeuble will sell them off to his buddies as its his KfW bank that has control of them, but we'll see, i hope i'm wrong.

2 points, where's the hypocrisy, i've said all along Greece shouldn't be in this political union that is the EU, hence they can trade with who they like be it Russia be Qatar be it anywhere so long as it benefits Greece so don't take the moral high ground regarding Russia, the US has a tainted recent history of meddling in other countries affairs, but we'd all be thrilled if they were a benefit to Greece in someway. Second point, as it was an open secret that Greece was heading for a fiscal shipwreck before even the EZ days then WHY WERE THEY ALLOWED TO JOIN IN THE FIRST PLACE? after all they didn't really meet the criteria set out for joining at the time. Now the EU dictate terms that if you don't like, your own banks won't have enough money in them for the country to function, we saw just the other week a construction project abandoned because the company couldn't pay workers because of capital controls on Greek banks. By the way did you know part of this deal calls for Greece to hand over 50 billion in public assets to a fund controlled by German KfW bank - run by finance minister Wolfgang Schaeuble - to be sold at fire sale prices. So who benefits from this deal? Because from what I see its not Greece. Dude in an earlier post you said Germany had their war debts cancelled, suddenly debts owed to countries must be paid back? My goodness the assets Greece has lost in exchange for this debt+interest is already too much. Investors don't care about increasing Greece's revenues - just their own - through taking revenue generating assets, the Greek people can take a jump as far as they're concerned. The Greek government is nothing more than a bunch of administrators that implement orders from Brussels. Referendums/elections - pointless.

Assuming he's their first choice keeper, if he starts for OLY then its a great move for him.

Having the 'Turkey stream' gas pipe going through Greece where Greece collect transit fees from Russia, lifting visa restrictions for Russians to come to Greece so they holiday/invest in Greece instead of Turkey and Egypt, and trading more with them selling them Greek produce etc benefit Greece, it has nothing to do with any sort of 'alliance' or 'orthodox brotherhood' or whether they like us or laugh at us, its about trying to generate revenue for Greece, which is becoming increasingly difficult under the European terms of privatisation and austerity.

I love this post, classic, the evidence presented doesn't fit your narrative of Greeks being 'uncivilised stupid lazy tax dodging etc' so rather than embrace the evidence and debate you decide to scream 'conspiracy nonsense talk' and like a child 'not debating with you anymore' (despite the fact i never once used the term conspiracy) and at no point did i say i wanted Greece to continue the way it is, i'm really not sure what you're reading. Meanwhile the Greek states ability to generate revenue is further diminished by privatisation/asset sales and you have no problem with that as long as pensions are cut and more tax is collected. Its like reading the comments section of a British paper when you post.

The more you privatise the less you take in, is it that difficult to understand? why are the Eurocrats so keen on the fire sale of assets and Greek reform, is it for their benefit or ours? you seem to be furious with people with money pleading poverty but not too bothered about money/assets being swallowed up by the troika. the fact the majority of people turn on each other and point fingers at who's not paying enough tax or who's got the best pension or who's got the biggest house and what car they have is the reason the spotlight is not on the real culprits. Greece is going down the sewer, and these 'reforms' will do nothing to prevent it, same discussion a few months down the line when another bailout is needed because low and behold these reforms haven't worked, how can they, they're not designed to work. Everything in Greece is owned by foreign speculators but that's OK that's fine so long as we collect more taxes off the Greeks. What a rip off.

I wish that was the case, the scary thing is you actually believe it.

Isn't it amazing, profit making assets that make money for the state are given to privateers and to make up for it we need to tax the people more and rot their pensions, when you talk of bribery one wonders whether its open for everyone to own these assets or just a chosen few. you focus on the small fry and wonder why nothing changes.

If not wanting to give taxes to some unelected Eurocrat to enrich themselves is 'uncivilised' then so be it. It's immoral to pay tax to a corrupt regime. If you choose to blame normal people and apologise for the real culprits thats entirely up to you. Forgive me for not commenting on one bent lawyer that's swinging the lead, but it pails into insignificance when you see how much the troika have swallowed up, sums so vast they don't even mean anything anymore. We can come after the bent lawyer when Greek taxes actually stay in Greece.

i never said anything about 'Greece being so great' the fact is why haven't they kicked us out already? If they wanted to they would of regardless of what Tsiparas/Greeks wanted, every country has assets, just like Greece has, which is why the vultures are circling to get their hands on them, just like the fire sales to privateers happening in Ukraine right now, they've been doing this to African nations for years and impoverished the people there as a result, now they're doing the same to Greece, we've heard the narrative before, Africans are too stupid to run their own affairs, we(west/banks/IMF/etc) give them money in exchange for assets, be it food growing land be it mines be it oil. And yes reorganising and modernising(really impoverishing) Greece is in the hands of foreigners, and to what ends? their benefit or ours? Seems like you're an apologist for the very people who are carving up Greece for their own ends.

The Eurocrats have no intention of letting Greece leave, if we are so bad and unreliable then why haven't they kicked us out already? The reason is they want to retain control of Greece and loot more of her assets, more bailout=more debt=more control=and more ridiculous demands. The US also doesn't want Greece to leave with the possibility of Moscow having more influence over Greece, they want Greece firmly in the EU and members of NATO. As long as you're members of these clubs you play by their rules. If the EU decides to 'sanction Russia' then Greece has to also, if NATO want to use Greece for any exercise then they use Greece, they got no intention of relinquishing such control.

I would agree with you if Greece ran its own affairs and had its own currency, but any tax collected now will disappear down the black hole that is the EU and back into the hands of creditors to repay a debt that is designed to be impossible to pay. When i go there this summer i'll be paying in cash and will not be asking for receipts for anything, the less tax they pay the more money stays in their economy and the less gets swallowed up by the monstrous EU. You can collect all the tax possible and still Greece will need another bailout in the near future, heck even if there was 100% employment there a bailout will still be needed in the near future, any reforms are futile while we remain in the EU/EZ. I'm not saying after an exit Greece will become the land of milk and honey, there will be hardship but I don't see any other option.

They cannot stand up to the troika and remain in the Euro at the same time, if you want to remain in the Euro you have to play by their rules, more theft of revenue generating Greek assets more austerity higher taxes, basically you do as they say. They destroyed Tsiparas because they sensed he didn't have the desire to leave the EU/EZ they had him by the balls, you want to use our currency you do as you're told. If the majority of Greeks want to remain in the Euro then this is the price they gotta pay. The IMF know Greece can't pay back, they've said austerity is not working yet we get more austerity and loss of assets in return for further funds(debt). Like a beggar with no dignity. you sound like a trigger happy American soldier, communism/capitalism its all rubbish it doesn't matter what system you have, if you're using the Euro you do as the Eurocrats say. If you go it alone then you can discuss what 'system' works best and how to implement it. Besides SYRIZA aren't really in power, they get their orders from the Eurocrats and implement them for the benefit of the Eurocrats and to the detriment of the Greek people. You can dream of a westernised Greek society, one that locks/deports those that disagree, and banishes unions. Sounds like China to me.