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Bingo. I'm a fan of Varoufakis, generally. But I never believed he'd be able to smash his way through the agreements and get a vastly different deal for Greece. What I expect, and hope for, are the aforementioned incremental changes to actually begin with this government. Tsipras needs to actually bring about the logical changes that previous governments agreed to but never bothered implementing - opening up industries to real competition, actually prosecuting tax cheats, and challenging the nepotism that truly forms the social and political backbone of the country. As far as Varoufakis - cutting the required primary surplus (I believe he was gunning for 1-1.5%?) would be a big step in the right direction. His push for repayments being tied to economic growth is attractive, but since we've already established that Greece cannot be relied upon to publish real numbers, the country and government needs to accept that large teams of auditors and accountants will have to set up semi-permanent shop in Greece.

Hi all. I'm "EarlyMan" from gs.com. I've had an account on phantis since 2005 so instead of creating a new account I opted to keep my original account. I had over 1000 posts since I started. Good to see many of you on here. Red sheriff, SOFC57, AEK66, Pash, GrkCdn, Amorgos, Pana97, GrkMikey, et al (and I do mean wveryone) but lastly that little annoying twerp Taxman who gave me the inspiration for my EarlyMan username for his comparison of Maniatis to a caveman. Which from memory was inspired by AEK66 referring Maniatis as the "Palestinian".

It is not certain that they would do us more good than the US and EU. I live in the US but anyone here who knows my posts know's I'm anything but an Amerikanaki. Fact of the matter is, even if aligning our selves with Russia was better, having bad relations with the US, NATO, and EU has the potential to be much more destructive for Greece. There will be a lot of western backlash if Greece decides to align itself with Russia and things can get very heated, very quickly, so Greece has to be careful not to make moves that are too sudden. Lets not let our personal opinions regarding the US and Russia interfere with our ability to judge which situation is best for Greece , or in this case less destructive. I think it is good to have good relations with Russia. A natural gas pipeline, and allowing them to fix their ships in our yards can work to our advantage. Also having them in our back pocket when negotiating with the EU and EZ is essential. Other than that Greek society is too intertwined with the Western world. Fact of the matter is we are too dependent on them financially. Aside from our exposure to their financial institutions like their banking systems and stock markets, we depend on them for imports and exports. The biggest issues we will run into is problems with big Pharma companies who we are already having issues with because of the amounts of money we owe them. The EU has helped push these companies to continue supplying Greece as well as make many drugs cheaper for Greece to purchase. Lets look at the numbers: One of Greece's biggest problems is that we import TWICE as much as we export. Exports being at around 33 Billion and imports at around 60 billion (from 93 billion in 2009). Here are the countries we rely the most heavily for our Exports: Turkey 11%, Italy 8%, Germany 6.4%, Bunkers 6% , Bulgaria 5%, and Romania, US, UK, Cyprus as well. (Turkey has gone up since the recession) Now Imports: Russia 11%, Germany 9.5%, Italy 8%, Saudi Arabia 5.1%, China 5%, France 5%, Netherlands 5% (Russia has gone up since the recession) Now the most important part in my eyes: After petroleum ( Around 35%) the most important Greek Import is MEDICINE, which accounts for 7% of our imports. Who exports the most Medicinal products?? Germany 14%, United States 11%, Switzerland 9%, France 8%, and UK 6-7% So things aren't as simple as they may seem and if you analyze things long enough you will realize that acting too drastically has the potential to be destructive especially at a time where Greece is so vulnerable. The bottom line is an independent Greece (as well as most of the world) has never served the interests of the world powers. Our location is too strategic for any powerful country , even Russia to really be interested in our long term political independence. Their ultimate goal would be to spread their influence into the Mediterranean, and in essence if such a move is hastily made, you can make the mistake of trading one pimp for another (a possibly worse one at that). Great post AEK66, there is no place for romanticism in politics especially not in discussing this pseudo-brotherhood with the Serbs and Russians.

I think recent events have proven that Maniatis is not a Neanderthal - they were said to have very robust bodies, but his injury seems to confirm that he is as frail as any other modern human. I know, I was shocked to realize this too.

Serbia was one of the first countries to recognise FYROM under the name "Macedonia"... so there's that. Exactly! In today's geopolitical climate and given the everchanging governments and even ideologies this is pretty much it. Russia (or any other nation for that matter, like the United States of Europe ...) may use the Greek crisis for its own interests - not because we are bound by religion, culture, history and what not. This has little to do with being an amerikanaki. Sure it's more romantic to think that the Orthodox brotherhood is going to come and save us but that's just not going to happen.

Nearly all of the historically "big" teams in Greece have been run like a kafenio. Worse actually. AEK, PAOK, OFI, Aris, Iraklis are all examples of how not to run a club. They all failed to live within their means. AEK racked up how much in debt ? I can't remember. Luckily for PAOK Savvidis came along and bills are actually being paid on time for the first time in decades. Even so PAOK still spends more than what it earns. And PAO is learning to live with out the backing of Vardinogiannis although I believe PAO didn't accrue massive debts and for the most part lived within their means. If it's one thing EPO could do, and should've done years ago is to insist on some sort of auditing to ensure that clubs are at least doing the right thing.

I think everyone needs to open their eyes. Every nation looks out for it's own interest ... full stop. As for Russia itself, it's hardly in a position to help Greece. Maybe some trade might come of it (and that would be a good thing) but that's about it. I still think Tsipras visit is worthwhile if only to increase what little bargaining power he has with the EU. And yes, Putin is a megalomaniac.

Russia looks out for Russia. They don't give two shits about Greece, I can guarantee you.

It's not "my way" it's how I see reality. I may be wrong. There are no good realistic choices for Greece right now in my opinion. If I were the King of Europe my ..memorandum would be different, yet, I would still ask for conditions if I were to lend money to a someone who has been irresponsible and untrustworthy in the past. (OK, the various Greek governments were irresponsible, falsifying the books, stealing EC subsidies, and violating international agreements) Isn't true that when you declare bankruptcy, lenders stop giving you money? How are you going to buy the stuff you need? If you produce what you need, then you're good to go. But, Greece cannot even feed itself. How about energy needs? No one will accept drachmas, and no one will give credit to a bankrupt country for many years to come. Everything you import is going to be very, very expensive after you leave the euro, because the drachma will be greatly a devalued currency. Then people should ask themselves what goods & services they need to have a decent life.... But, they have to find a way to pay for what they need. As it's been the case since Greece joined the EC, it has been using/spending more than it's producing. This fundamental inballance remains and no solution under any scenario can solve this problem ...not until the country finds a way to live within its own means! Your exports are going to be cheap too, so you can sell lots since your products will become cheaper too. That's the positive aspect of going back to the drachma. Greece in the 1950s and 60s was a very poor country. Seriously poor, underdeveloped, suffering from political instability (the Civil War was militarily over but otherwise still going on). Many (if not most) streets in the capitol region were dirt roads, and many Greeks who had ..refrigerators often put them in the living room as a display item. The rural country was literally in the dark. Greek cinema depicted life of the time accurately--not necessarily the stories, but the background against which the movies were based. To say the "economy was developing at a record pace" maybe be true but deceptive..... if the starting point is so low, you can grow at 6-7% (GDP per year as Greece was doing then) and even though it sounds impressive it's doesn't make it an affluent country. [ie. let's say you're poor in the US today, earning $5,000 year. Next year you earn $6,000, an increase of 20%!!!. Are you not poor any longer?] The Greek economy in the 2 decades after WW2 got a boost from the Marshall plan, modernization (farm machinery, foreign investment in factories, etc), so the argument "rapid growth" is valid but.... When I said Greeks would not want to go back to those days (50s-60s), I didn't mean they wouldn't want the rate of economic growth of that period now, but I meant the conditions of poverty, the lack of goods & services. And, yes, no one would like the political extremism of the times. You also say that crisis like this one will hit Greece again in several decades from now. Well, let's say I feel generous today and paid all Greece's debt. Not a cent the country owes to anyone. How long before huge debts accumulate again? Unless, you argue that the enormous debts Greece accumulated since the revolution were not the result of domestic fiscal irresponsibility....

Greece is in the same position many US home owners found themselves in after the housing market crash of 2008. Insane interest rates that were given out at alarming rates, at a time of relative economic prosperity. Once the economy went south these mortgages were exposed for what they were: UNSUSTAINABLE. This is where Greece finds itself today: A home that doesn't generate enough money, run by a system that will never be able to outgrow its interest rate. The worlds elite economists have come out and declared that this debt is not payable or in Greek terms "Mh biwsimo". This debt will never be paid off, and the damages it inflicts on the economy will only worsen things. The governments of the past (predominantly Papandreou) were using 5th grade economics thinking you can just liquidate certain assets and fire sell other assets when your equity was a fraction of what it was pre-2009. So to some extent Irlando is right. But where he is wrong is in believing that Greece as it is, in this moment in time, is capable of sustaining its own currency. The best case scenario right now is to use Russia and the Nazi war crimes as bargaining chips to achieve a debt renegotiation in which we trim off some of the existing debt, and trim the interest rate, to a size that allows for the economy to grow , and at the same time realistically pay back the debt within a certain time span.

So, leaving the Euro and stop making payments equals declaring bankruptcy. This means no one would lend you money, that is hard currency. Or, loan sharks would ask for prohibitive rates, like 40%. This is what Greece was being offered in the open market when it went asking, before the ..troika came in. The troika came in because Greece couldn't finance itself by other means. These lenders put conditions before they gave Greece money. We can debate the wisdom of the conditions. But, whether Greece needed a bailout isn't much for debate. Now, let's say you don't like the conditions (memorandum/mnimonio) and you leave the euro. Question: where are you going to find the money to: buy food stuff buy oil/petrol buy other necessities the economy, consumers, the country needs to operate as a modern country (cars, military, machinery, medical techno & drugs, etc, etc) If you produce enough, at least enough food to sustain the population, then you may not need anything else. But Greece isn't producing the food stuffs it used to. It even imports potatos. If you consume more than you produce, if you require goods that can only be bought with hard currency, what do you do? (assuming no other country would be accepting drachmas....) This is the problem. OK> you don't have to buy a modest car that now costs the equivalent of $50-75K, but do you make enough to feed yourself? You may go back to the conditions of the 1950s and 1960s... (See old Greek cinema for clues). But expectations and demands are much different nowadays. Even the tourists that Greece want to attract (the more afluent), expect modern ammenities, which customer-service infrastructure requires lots of hard currency This is the reason SYRIZA--with all the pre-election talk, like "there's money", leave the "mnimonio" and whatever else they promised--cannot do anything else but negotiate only some small details of the bailout conditions and not the bailout itself. This is the reality.

Irlandos none of that caters for the concerns articulated by Che. ///other than the rush on banks..

If samaras didn't have the hair he wouldn't be nearly as recognized around Europe.