PAOK-AEK

[nightsurfer]

2-1 FT... :LOL:

ADE XANOUMIA STO UEFA !!!!!!!!

It's not finished yet my friend... Or do you think that the championship is fixed ?

[Ziaka]

That's true. Nothing is finished. PAO has a hard game next week, and I would no be suprised if AEK is in 2nd place again next Monday.

[TheCity1924]

Bullshit, how was aek the better team? Who got the three points? oh PAOK did.

PAOK GAMA,

TIN AEK TI POYTANA!

KAI TO PENALTI POU EDWSE DEN HTAN PENALTI...

DYKEFALE TOU VORRA OEOEOEOEOOEOEOEOEOEO!

PAOK 4 EISAI POLY *&^%$!!!!!

KA8ARO GOAL KAI PENALNTI HTAN!!!! OLH H ELLADA TO EIDE EXTOS APO SENA. GO PUT SOME GLASSES ON!!!!!!!!!

PAOK m#$%! SE PEZOUME GIA PLAKA!!!!!!!!!!

Oh quite the freakin whinning....you lost!!!!!! And that's that...And for the record THAT WAS NOT A PENALTY!!!!! AND IT WAS OFFSIDE, CLEARLY!!!! Stop trying to make excuses!!!! and what the hell are you talking about all of Greece saw it....what the hell is that. Athens is not Greece alone my friend. ;)

Eides classic Thessaloniki complex!!! Its not about Athens papara its about football.

[nightsurfer]

Hmmm...

Psychraimous sas vlepo mehri stigmis gia tin diaitisia. Tha ftaiei pou o Nightsurfer den ehei pei tipota akomi... ;)

Apo oti akouo to penalty se Lybe itan katharo kai to offside para polu oriako (mallon den itan).

To heirotero htan autes oi mal... me Ntemi se aerodromio. Autoi oi alites prepei na kanoun kati allo me tin zoi tous...

To offside den htane oriako.... Den exi eki offside me to tipota.. Ama to xanadis.. watch the gras cut traces (lines) he is covered by 30 cm......

.

.

Tha to perasoume kai afto....

.

H diki mas kardia xtipai gia AEK...kai as mas kako metaxirisounte....

[aekrossoponti]

just because a team gets knocked out by another doesn't mean they are weaker. Lille qualified at the expense of Man Utd, are they better?[/color][/b]

yes, but in football its the results that count. milan wasnt better than lyon but at the end they reached the next round. in any case whats your point with that? pao wasn t necessarily the better team against wisla and olympiakos wasn t the better team against rosenborg given the two games.

CSKA Moscow, and what a great acheivement it was, however, the UEFA Cup is hardly representative of the strength of a league. Romania had 2 sides in the last eight, the Prem had one, as did La Liga, Serie A had none. Maybe the Romanian league is the strongest league in Europe then???[/color][/b]

no one said that the romanian league is the strongest league in europe. but i don t remember any greek team as of late beating feyenoord, etc. as have these romanian teams.

anyway we not should just look at the uefa cup, which by the way no greek team ever came close to winning, but see the whole picture.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/d.../crank2007.html

these are the most up to date rankings, we should take these into consideration. everything else is just ridiculous. there we see that the russian league is better than the greek league. also the russian league is better than the polish and the norwegian league. i mean zenit even threw out marseille...

in the last three season the russian teams outscored our teams.

we have to face the facts instead of believing we still have a strong league...

also remember that wisla was the wish klirosi for pao....

Let's face it, Olympiakos need to sort their defense and this PAO team needs experience and a goalscorer. If they sorted these problems they'd both be very good CL teams and would both be qualifying from the group stages every year!

if if if....

this goes for about every team in the world. olympiakos needs to get a whole new world class defense. and then they still need a great midfield and some good strikers and then they would be a very good team. :tup: ..what would aek be if they did likewise??

so pao`s defence is very good cl material ? dream on.

[Damianos]

PAO were a brand new team against Wisla they need time to gel! I'm still amazed that they managed to qualify considering that!

Olympiakos were extremely unlucky in Trondheim and you know it.

As for Zenit being better than Wisla the last few seasons don't suggest that, and Rosenborg are better than Zenit. They have no imagination in their game.

Let's face it, Olympiakos need to sort their defense and this PAO team needs experience and a goalscorer. If they sorted these problems they'd both be very good CL teams and would both be qualifying from the group stages every year![/color][/b]

I think your wrong my friend. Oly cant win at home to Rossenborg, Pao get smashed every game.

Zenit are actually a good team. if you do not recall they made it a long way in the Uefa Cup, beating Marseille easily at home and away.

If Pao and Oly are streets ahead of them, how come they both finished bottom of their groups to Rossenborg (who haddent won a CL game for ages until Oly) and Undinese, who are just above relegation in Italy???

Lets be honest and look at the facts. The Greek League is no where near the standard of many other leagues, Russia included. CSKA, Zenit, Dinamo, Lokomotive, all are better.

We are lucky to have 2 CL spots up for grabs, in a few seasons i dont think we will. Im an AEK supporter, and we probably do deserve to finish 3rd, but mark my words, without even seeing the draw for next season, Oly and Pao/AEK will finish last in their groups, because Greek soccer is not up to scratch, so dont go saying that Pao would have beat Zenit, because you didnt play them, how come you didnt worry about winning your CL games rather than losing 5-0???????

Its like saying, a few years ago AEK drew with Real Madrid, and they beat Barcalona, so therefore we can beat them. Football doesnt work like that..........

So, i hope you have changed your views, and, if not i expect to see Oly and Pao/AEK qualifying past the group next CL. If so ill eat humble pie, otherwise i suggest you face reality

[DUDE]

no one said that the romanian league is the strongest league in europe. but i don t remember any greek team as of late beating feyenoord, etc. as have these romanian teams

When was a Greek side last drawn with Feyenoord??

we not should just look at the uefa cup, which by the way no greek team ever came close to winning, but see the whole picture.

No??? Weren't PAO in the semi's a few years ago, and only went out after extra time to the eventual winners Porto?

these are the most up to date rankings, we should take these into consideration. everything else is just ridiculous. there we see that the russian league is better than the greek league.

The rankings consider the Czech league and even the Scottish to be better than the Greek, would you agree with that too??? Can you honestly say that if Zenit, Sparta Prague or Celtic were in the Alpha Ethniki they'd win it??? Please!

we have to face the facts instead of believing we still have a strong league... also remember that wisla was the wish klirosi for pao....

I'm not saying our league is strong. I was merely agreeing with a poster that PAO would've beaten Zenit.

if if if....

this goes for about every team in the world. olympiakos needs to get a whole new world class defense. and then they still need a great midfield and some good strikers and then they would be a very good team. :tup: ..what would aek be if they did likewise??

I disagree. Olympiakos need a left back, centre-back and a right-back. They don't need to be world class but decent, the current crop are abysmal! This CL campaign was a freaky one for Oly. First game, the goals were ridiculous. Rosen had 2 shots and scored 3!!! Second game, 6 mins away from a draw at the Bernabeau, 3rd game, 1 min away from a draw in Lyon. 5th game, 4 mins away from an away win. Things could have been quite different. Performance wise, it was very different from the results. Point is, they don't need that much work. PAO got hammered when it mattered but again they were the only team to play as well against Barca this year at home, the thrashings can be put down to lack of experience and crap management! Point is, PAO at their best and AEK at their best the level is quite different! Even PAOK went out after throwing away a lead at home to Stuttgart in the final minutes, the only team to have gone out to an average side without even a fight, or bad luck was AEK. You have no imagination in your game.

[Crazy]

Nothing is done yet for aek.Pao can easily drop a point or points in the next games.Aek has to play well and win the rest of there games and i believe they are going to get second place.

[Damianos]

The rankings consider the Czech league and even the Scottish to be better than the Greek, would you agree with that too??? Can you honestly say that if Zenit, Sparta Prague or Celtic were in the Alpha Ethniki they'd win it??? Please!

I think all these 3 teams would have a very good chance hypothetically if they joined the Greek league, thats assuming they played 1/2 at home, 1/2 away.

I dont think you have seen any Russian games with CSKA or Zenit, the way they pass the ball.

And i disagree with you again, i dont think Pao would have beaten Zenit.

I am not anit Pao or Oly, i want to see all Greek teams do well in Europe, but i think you have to face reality. With all your Oly comparisions about the games, you kept saying, lucky, 3 shots, 3 goals, if this, if that, if they hadnt scored in the last few minutes. What would have happened in the PAOK vs AEK game if the first goal stood, if the penalty was awarded???

I agree with you to an extent that AEK are a bit unimaginative and mainly score from set pieces, but are you saying that Pao and Oly play with some great style???

If so, how does this culminate in 5 goal thumpings???

Czech and Scottish leagues better, id say no. As far as rankings go, they are what determines CL spots in the long run.

Anyways, the Greek League needs a revamp, which i thought would come after Euro, but obviously hasnt. We need teams playing in Europe, with consistent results, not just wins here and there.

At the moment we are no where near that point, simple.

[Damianos]

Nothing is done yet for aek.Pao can easily drop a point or points in the next games.Aek has to play well and win the rest of there games and i believe they are going to get second place.

I hope you are right, AEK have to win there last 3 and hope Pao drop points away to Iraklis or Larissa. Should be interesting thats for sure!!

:tup: LONG LIVE AEK :tup:

[Kolloso_Frappe]

That ranking is a hypothetical ranking for 2007/08 season. Its not for next season it doesnt include the 01/02 season where we scored 11.

The thing to look for is the points that Greece accumulated this season (05/06)......3.333 Even Slovakia collected more. Romania got more than anyone this season.

[DUDE]

I think all these 3 teams would have a very good chance hypothetically if they joined the Greek league, thats assuming they played 1/2 at home, 1/2 away.

Maybe you need to watch them more to realise how poor they are! Esp Sparta! I think you are also forgetting that much of the reason Russian & Ukranian teams win some games is because of the weather in their countries. Teams dread going away to these teams, not because of their footballing ability but because of the conditions they would play under!

I dont think you have seen any Russian games with CSKA or Zenit, the way they pass the ball.

Lol! I've seen them play a number of occasions. CSKA are a good side, Zenit are not. They are average, AT BEST! In the CL they would not score a single goal!

With all your Oly comparisions about the games, you kept saying, lucky, 3 shots, 3 goals, if this, if that, if they hadnt scored in the last few minutes. What would have happened in the PAOK vs AEK game if the first goal stood, if the penalty was awarded???

Actually I said 2 shots, 3 goals! Remember that freak goal?? I realise that luck plays a mjor role in football, and you cannot say IF, IF, IF, but we are not discussing the campaign here. I am not saying Oly should've qualified, I am saying that it wasn't reflective of Oly's ability. And it's one thing to happen once, to Oly it happened a number of times! It was Olympiakos' worst ever season in the CL when they arguably had their best team in years!!! Freak campaigns can't occur like that every season. We shall see next year!

I am not anti Pao or Oly, i want to see all Greek teams do well in Europe, but i think you have to face reality.

Face reality??? You're making out as if I said the Greek league is stronger than La Liga! Just because I think PAO would have beaten Zenit and I think the Greek league is better than the Russian league (where teams rely on the weather to perform in Europe), better than the Scottish league (which the top Cypriot teams could challenge for), and better than the Czech league where teams qualify for the CL once every few years and don't get a point!

I agree with you to an extent that AEK are a bit unimaginative and mainly score from set pieces, but are you saying that Pao and Oly play with some great style???

Olympiakos play some very good football at times.

Anyways, the Greek League needs a revamp, which i thought would come after Euro, but obviously hasnt. We need teams playing in Europe, with consistent results, not just wins here and there.

At the moment we are no where near that point, simple.

I agree.

[Ziaka]

The UEFA rankings have nothing to do with individual leagues. The rankings are based on the perfomance by the teams in the European cups (CL & UEFA Cup) for the past five years. We are hanging on to the 8th place for next season and also for the 2007-08 season mainly because of the good year that Greek teams had in the 2001-02 season, when PAO had the great run. It's in the 2008-09 when we sink in the rankings.

Go here to check for past and future standings in the rankings:

http://clubs.phantis.com/sports/index.php?showforum=13

[aekrossoponti]

When was a Greek side last drawn with Feyenoord??

not feyenoord but paok played alkmaar and lost, aek couldn t beat genk, paok always had problems with eindhoven. pao lost in eindhoven and won in greece. olympiakos and their heerenven games. similar...we never had these kind of teams in the bag.

No??? Weren't PAO in the semi's a few years ago, and only went out after extra time to the eventual winners Porto?

actually it was the quarter finals and pao lost at home failing to score after winning in portugal.

I'm not saying our league is strong. I was merely agreeing with a poster that PAO would've beaten Zenit.

pao this year...i am not sure. point i make is you act as if zenit is easy. i believe every greek team at the moment would probably have a hard time facing zenit. this goes for olympiakos too.

I disagree. Olympiakos need a left back, centre-back and a right-back. They don't need to be world class but decent, the current crop are abysmal! This CL campaign was a freaky one for Oly. First game, the goals were ridiculous. Rosen had 2 shots and scored 3!!! Second game, 6 mins away from a draw at the Bernabeau, 3rd game, 1 min away from a draw in Lyon. 5th game, 4 mins away from an away win. Things could have been quite different. Performance wise, it was very different from the results. Point is, they don't need that much work. PAO got hammered when it mattered but again they were the only team to play as well against Barca this year at home, the thrashings can be put down to lack of experience and crap management! Point is, PAO at their best and AEK at their best the level is quite different! Even PAOK went out after throwing away a lead at home to Stuttgart in the final minutes, the only team to have gone out to an average side without even a fight, or bad luck was AEK. You have no imagination in your game.

olympiakos needed an own goal to score against rosenborg. also freaky. apart from that olympiakos was trying, but didn t create any 100% chances. rosenborg used the few chances they got.

as you say the other games performance wise it was different from the results. so i see much work, because if real had used their cjhances olympiakos would have gotten five goals in bernabeau. in lyon and real it was only a kafes lucky shot, its not as if olympiakos really took part in either game. granted these are very good teams.

what you say about pao, i believe they will have a bright future. yes.

as for paok come on, a weak stuttgart side in toumba was by far the better team all game and deservedly won.

what you consider unlucky, can also be considered luck because the teams managed to keep the game close this long and didn tlose by a greater margin..

yes, aek has no imagination in their game and pao and olympiakos are the better sides. i agree to that. i wouldn t be sure though, that if olympiakos would have to qualify for the group stage in the cl, that they would make it. one reason being of course that it takes our team until november to be ready for competitive games which cost aek against zenit, which nearly cost pao against wisla and cost our ethniki in about every qualifying campaign i remember.

as for the rankings, we have to go by something if we compare leagues. i know they are abit biased because of the number of teams starting but fact is we have drastically gotten worse in the last few years while many other leagues have gotten better.

[DUDE]

pao this year...i am not sure. point i make is you act as if zenit is easy. i believe every greek team at the moment would probably have a hard time facing zenit. this goes for olympiakos too.

No game is easy in this day and age, but AEK didn't even look like they'd qualify.

olympiakos needed an own goal to score against rosenborg. also freaky. apart from that olympiakos was trying, but didn t create any 100% chances. rosenborg used the few chances they got.

Did you even see the game? Their goalkeeper said he'd played the best game of his life. He saved spectacularly from Konstantinou's header, Toure and Baba.

in lyon and real it was only a kafes lucky shot, its not as if olympiakos really took part in either game. granted these are very good teams.

Yes it was a lucky shot! He saw the keeper off his line and lobbed him, accidently of course, so it was lucky. :blink: Olympiakos were brilliant in the 1st half and and very good for the start of the 2nd. And the game was away to one of the best teams in Europe.

as for the rankings, we have to go by something if we compare leagues. i know they are abit biased because of the number of teams starting but fact is we have drastically gotten worse in the last few years while many other leagues have gotten better.

I agree. Once more I'll emphasise that I am not saying our league is strong, all I said is that PAO would knock Zenit out.

[nightsurfer]

+

[Ziaka]

He is right, but it's problem facing Greek soccer as a whole. Not just this specific game.

The game with PAOK is over and the result will not change. AEK should be focusing on how to win the remaining 3 games and hope that PAO drops points along the way.

[TheCity1924]

Its a shame to say but foreign refs should be brought in to officiate the games. What goes on in greece is a disgrace to football.

[DUDE]

Its a shame to say but foreign refs should be brought in to officiate the games. What goes on in greece is a disgrace to football.

Like foreign refs can't be bought too??? The only realistic way to clamp down on this is if clubs appeal to UEFA and start boycotting matches. Many decisions go in favour of Olympiakos, so PAO, PAOK, and AEK need to refuse to play games, until UEFA carry out an independent investigation. AND I'M AN OLYMPIAKOS FAN SAYING THIS!

This would be terrible for Greek football, big names would leave, we'd lose our positions in European competition, etc. And that is why it will never happen and the corruption will continue. The only other option would be for the fans to boycott games. If no one goes to the games then EPO will have to do something!

[slick13]

He is right, but it's problem facing Greek soccer as a whole. Not just this specific game.

The game with PAOK is over and the result will not change. AEK should be focusing on how to win the remaining 3 games and hope that PAO drops points along the way.

hey ziaka!

why dont u change youre avatar to a aek?

with all youre recent post you are alot more yellow submarine than black B)

[Ziaka]

Hey Slick what gave you that idea? I really could care less who makes the CL. The only team I like to see there is PAOK. B)

[Mitsos]

You guys get too hung up on the officiating. Refs will make mistakes period. The important thing is that the ref takes control of a game and does not allow things to get out of hand. Was he off-sides? The first replay I thought he was the second replay I thought he wasn't. The officials don't have the luxury of replay, they need to make a call on the spot and the rest of us need to respect it. A.E.K. lost the game because they didn't take advantage of their possession advantage. P.A.O.K. had better chances and took advantage of them. The one thing that is painfully obvious, for A.E.K. fans, is the lack of difference makers on your squad. With the exception of Emerson no one else really sticks out. P.A.O.K. on the other hand might not have a very good team yet but Salpi and Sikampala are very dangerous players that can strike out of nowhere.

All in all I think we can all agree that Greek soccer needs to improve drastically. :tdown:

[TheCity1924]

You guys get too hung up on the officiating. Refs will make mistakes period. The important thing is that the ref takes control of a game and does not allow things to get out of hand. Was he off-sides? The first replay I thought he was the second replay I thought he wasn't. The officials don't have the luxury of replay, they need to make a call on the spot and the rest of us need to respect it. A.E.K. lost the game because they didn't take advantage of their possession advantage. P.A.O.K. had better chances and took advantage of them. The one thing that is painfully obvious, for A.E.K. fans, is the lack of difference makers on your squad. With the exception of Emerson no one else really sticks out. P.A.O.K. on the other hand might not have a very good team yet but Salpi and Sikampala are very dangerous players that can strike out of nowhere.

All in all I think we can all agree that Greek soccer needs to improve drastically. :tdown:

Listen buddy, its one thing to make a mistake in one game, but here there were to huge "mistakes". Plus, the only consistent thing in greek soccer is the poor officiating. I would have liked to see how PAOK would have played if AEK's goal wasn't cancelled and the penalty given. This game was won by poor officiating. And although the ref is part of the game he cannot be the 12th player for any team.

[Mitsos]

I understand that you are upset but I do not agree with you. The 2 things that remain constant in Greek Soccer is the terrible play on the pitch and the blaming of the refs for everything. The play is poor which in turn makes the refs look bad. I believe the two go hand in hand. Greek officials are no different then officials from other countries. In Greece there is a general lack of respect for authority figures, and most important lack of responsility by all. I'm sorry your team lost, I would much rather see A.E.K. advance, but this game was lost by your players and coach. Was the goal legit? In my mind it doesn't matter, the linesman seemed sure of his decision at the moment and that's enough for me.

[Dava-G]

I am first and foremost an AEK fan.

But I have to say, that as the season closes I become more and more disheartened. Yeah, the refs screwed up again (or were paid off again).. It happens every year over and over. It doesnt phase me any more as it used to... I just take it as the norm... I know this is wrong...

I am concentrating on our team and how good or bad we play. I cant stand the style of our play. We basically cannot score goals unless they are from corners or from free kicks. That may be OK against Ethnikos, but as you can see against any big team, we cant do crap. THAT SUCKS. THATS BAD TACTICS. I cant stand the tactics and player choices that we use. It drives me crazy. Why the hell do you wait to put on the two fastest players on our team on at the very end of the match? What do you want them to do? We played possession defensive for the first half to play for the tie with PAOK. WE DID NOT PLAY WITH ONE STRIKER FOR THE ENTIRE FIRST HALF.

Soares (who by the way has to go - thanks for the great year last year, tho) is not a midfielder. Lymbe is TOO SLOW and cannot play as a holding midfilder. Ivic is WAY TOO SLOW and not a good holding midfielder. Jeez, Emerson is older than all these guys and he is all over the field (dont you think there is a reason for this????). He shouldnt have to do that, but he HAS to because we are too slow.

Our management has talked for two years about not worrying about winning the league just about rebuilding and getting a team that can compete in 5 years. I think it is a great idea and I also have the patience to wait. But they have shown NO ACTION FOR REBUILDING. We DONOT PLAY any of our younger players. If we were REALLY planning for the future we would play mostly all younger players to let them build up experience (like PAO) and take the losses and finish middle of the table for two or three years. Then kick some ass. You have to PAY the price if you want to rebuild. The only price we are paying is that of no patience and irrtability. We got real close last year "without trying". So we added a few players like Dellas (who has done nothing due to lack of fitness, injury or just not in the plans) and Lakis (who didnt do too much as a goal scorer in his first stint at AEK, nothing in England and has done not too much this season). We hoped that by adding these we wouldnt really have to rebuild and we could sneak thru and win the league without adding too much to an already lacking team. We were wrong.

Money is definitely important and I understand that we need to make the CL to get more $$$. But if you are building a team, you have to pay the price of a mediocre team. If we end up making the CL, or even if we dont... what have we gained talent wise? OK we can buy a good player or two. Great. And we go into Europe and become the Uefa or CL prostitute. We HAVE PROBLEMS with the weaker teams in our league. We will not do anything in Europe with players like Malbasa, Georgeas, Tzortzopoulos, Alexopolous. Dont get me wrong, they are diggers and work hard. But they are not talent. We need to feed our youth NOW. That was the plan at the start of the year last year. We signed MANY young kids. Now they ride the pine or out on loan with another teaM. IT DOESNT HELP US.

We sign Emerson, who I love. He has more energy and skill than most of our players. But this is an old guy. Is this building for the future???? NO! We could have spent basically the SAME $$$$ and paid for Basinas. He is younger and also saves us a foreign spot.

I think we should have taken the hit and just played the younger kids and TRUELY built for the future. We apparently are not. If the AEK supporters complain and stop going to the matches because of our rebuilding process then EFF THEM. They dont have the patience to wait as we start over, EFF THEM. But we start to buckle to the pressure. And then due to pressure instead of using youth again we buy other players to band aid the holes. And then we fall further into financial and team crisis. Then we fall into the same trap that every other administration that AEK has had. The downward spiral of trying to quick fix. We have seen it before. Ask any of the older members here in the forum, that can remember back to the early 80s... I thought with Demi it would be different. But the moves so far this year has pointed otherwise.

Maybe this should have been an entirely new topic... But I got started and couldnt stop.....