Panos13 Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 ACCEPT IT ELASTON: A HOOLIGAN IS A HOOLIGAN THE ONLY REASON OSFP HOOLIGANS ARE MORE NUMEROUS IS THAT OSFP HAS EASILY THE MOST FANS IN GREECE. WHEN I SAY SAME I MEAN THAT THEY ARE THE SAME KIND OF CRIMINAL. THE ACTS OF VIOLENCE THEY HAVE PERPATRATED ARE AS BAD AS EACH OTHER and you come here to tell us Olympiakos are blameless?!!!!!!!!! panos, how can YOU MISS THE POINT SO COMPLETELY? WE ARE NOT SAYING THAT OSFP IS NOT TO BLAME FOR THIS PARTICULAR BOUT OF HOOLIGANISM, WHAT WE ARE SAYING IS, IS THAT THE AEK AND PAO ARE ALSO COMPLETELY TO BLAME FOR THE HOOLIGANISM OF THEIR FANS DURING THE WEEK AND THEREFORE OSFP IS NOT TO BLAME FOR THE WHOLE PROBLEM OF HOOLIGANISM IN GREECE!!!!! pao's gay managment encourages hooliganism just like kokkalis does!!!! So there nothing to argue about anymore is there? STOP WHINING EVERY HINT OF A CHANCE YOU GET!!! No, I didn;t miss the point. I am aware that some section of PAO and AEK fans are also to blame and cause violence. But on this occasion can you tell me which match it was that didnt even start? The match between AEK and PAO started and inside the ground there wasn't even a seat that was thrown. You know what that means in a Greek derby, I am sure, where in every derby there is fire to the seats and seats are ripped off and thrwon on to the pitch etc. Whatever happened was outside and the responsibility of MAT and police. On the other hand the Oly and Panionios fans hooliganism prevented the match at Nea Smyrni to start. There is your difference. Anyway, why doesn't Kokalis disband thyra7 and OFFICIALLY detach himself and OSFP from these animals? It will be a great step and good show of faith to eradicate hooliganism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXX-18T Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 if Olympiakos loses points and they lose the championship by a point do u think the fans of Olympiakos would allow that i mean to taint the championship would be wrong on that sense Look, you dont get it do you ? It has to start N O W ! With everyone and everything.If something goes WRONG you get deductions on your merry points list, THATS JUST HOW IT GOES, welcome to world football ! We SHOULD get points deducted, nice cash down the drain and a 4,5 home match ban, as Panionios should the same and Beos well thats another matter. (ah re m#$%!) Im patiently waiting for the final descision. I agree and if Oly and Pani get punished with no leniancy so should Pao and all the other Greek teams that cause troubleI pray to God the EPO go all out and stamp this bs from our league Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Protathlitis Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 But on this occasion can you tell me which match it was that didnt even start? Thats probably because there were no police at Nea Smyrni where as OAKA whereas they actually thought to have police at OAKA Anyway, why doesn't Kokalis disband thyra7 and OFFICIALLY detach himself and OSFP from these animals? It will be a great step and good show of faith to eradicate hooliganism. I think Kokkalis should do exactly that, however Officially/ unofficially, pao's management does exactly the same thing. Thats really great that no seats were thrown and its not like the pao fans actually did die in that bus so therefore the only real hooligans on show this week were OSFP fans yeah? :huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CH-Thrylos Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 Thats really great that no seats were thrown and its not like the pao fans actually did die in that bus so therefore the only real hooligans on show this week were OSFP fans yeah? it sounds like you wish some people would have died just to prove that not only osfp has hooligans as fans. we all know that there are hooligans in other teams too. I think Kokkalis should do exactly that, however Officially/ unofficially, pao's management does exactly the same thing. that will not happen. why? $$$$$$ how many members are in thyra 7? 5000-10000? times 60 makes 300'000-600'000 euros. as long as the financial losses through riots dont exceed that nothing will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elastonpappou 13 Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 ACCEPT IT ELASTON: A HOOLIGAN IS A HOOLIGAN THE ONLY REASON OSFP HOOLIGANS ARE MORE NUMEROUS IS THAT OSFP HAS EASILY THE MOST FANS IN GREECE. WHEN I SAY SAME I MEAN THAT THEY ARE THE SAME KIND OF CRIMINAL. THE ACTS OF VIOLENCE THEY HAVE PERPATRATED ARE AS BAD AS EACH OTHER and you come here to tell us Olympiakos are blameless?!!!!!!!!! panos, how can YOU MISS THE POINT SO COMPLETELY? WE ARE NOT SAYING THAT OSFP IS NOT TO BLAME FOR THIS PARTICULAR BOUT OF HOOLIGANISM, WHAT WE ARE SAYING IS, IS THAT THE AEK AND PAO ARE ALSO COMPLETELY TO BLAME FOR THE HOOLIGANISM OF THEIR FANS DURING THE WEEK AND THEREFORE OSFP IS NOT TO BLAME FOR THE WHOLE PROBLEM OF HOOLIGANISM IN GREECE!!!!! pao's gay managment encourages hooliganism just like kokkalis does!!!! So there nothing to argue about anymore is there? STOP WHINING EVERY HINT OF A CHANCE YOU GET!!! Protathliti, I never said that these things don't happen to other teams... I said that it has happened much more with Thrynos fans than any other fans... And trust me its not about numbers... It is about mentality... Thrynos fans are like sheep because they get carried away with all these bullshit that Protathlitis and TV Magic say... PAO fans on the other hand refuse to be led by people who earn money by acting as Thyra 7 or organised supporters... I have many facts to back my arguments....First of all see the press sales of PAO and Thrynos papers... If you add Protathliti and Fos the figure is 4 times as big compared to Derby and Athlitiki Ixo... And that doesn't have to do with numbers because PAO fans usually buy the most 'objective' newspapers such as Sportime, Goalnews, Filathlo... That is why these three papers have also a very high circullation... Because Thrynos fans buy Thrynos press and the rest of the fans usually buy normal papers... Even if you take the people from this Forum you will see that most PAO fans (including me) despise Derby... Not to go inti TV shows and all the other tricks that your president and his army does... And to close my post I will simply state that PAOs management has nothing to do with Kokkalis... They are completely different.. Panos gave you a very serious difference in his topic above.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montreal_Thrillos Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 the funny part is u accuse us of being like puppets that kokkali controls his army even funnier is you can't see PAO'S management administration does almost the exact same things do u guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elastonpappou 13 Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 the funny part is u accuse us of being like puppets that kokkali controls his army even funnier is you can't see PAO'S management administration does almost the exact same things do u guys When you have an argument its best if you back it up with statements. Now compare my post to you post... Do you see the difference... You throw awaty a patata like"PAOs management does the same things to you" and you can't justify anything....How exactly does PAOs management controlls the fans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montreal_Thrillos Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 they had nothign with the violence over the wekeendo with it but in the past ...they have poored fuel to the fire shall we bring up the efthimiadis incident? they encouraged what happened to him. the fights before the Leofors game last year vs us where was your management to stop it? I like how u portray our fans to be so cold hearted when your fans are just as bad and when u r confronted with it.. u say "well look at OSFP fans" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziaka Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 I pray to God the EPO go all out and stamp this bs from our leagueEPO really does not have much to say on how the league is run. It is EPAE that runs the league. And lets not forget that this Friday EPAE is holdiong elections for a new president. It is widely assumed that the Olympiakos backed current president of EPAE Kanellopoulos will lose to the PAO backed candidate Lykourezos. What this means is that until now Olympiakos controlled the league, and it will become under the control of PAO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Protathlitis Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 it sounds like you wish some people would have died just to prove that not only osfp has hooligans as fans. we all know that there are hooligans in other teams too. Why dont you read my posts again youll see that there was no need to post this post. ;) And trust me its not about numbers... It is about mentality... Thrynos fans are like sheep because they get carried away with all these bullshit that Protathlitis and TV Magic say Very very arbitrary arguments you've made. First of all how can you say it has nothing to do with numbers when Olympiakos has %48 of Greeks for fans? Im not sure what the Athenian number is, but id think it would be pretty overwhelming too. You might have some thread of point that the fan base of OSFP is more 'militant' and 'organised' but the reason protathlitis sells so much more is because of the number of fans. I think the two are unescapably linked. ay im not such a big fan protathlitis myself (despite my name) :D ; neither are a lot of my mates (not all). Funilly enough my uncle is a big vaselos who defends derby to me. And if pao fans dont read derby; who does? I think you might be beleiving something you want to beleive. You seem to be making the assersion that all panathinaikos hooligans, young and old, are well rounded individuals and somehow dont get swept away by the mob mentality (or be 'sheep') as much as OSFP fans do. Young Greeks red, green or yellow are always going to be sheep. Still, even if pao fans were big on indivudalism when they go to games like you say; I dont see how the end result is any different from the end result of OSFP hooligans: stabbings, fan club attacks, street brawls. Thats my point: there may be differences in organisation, media etc. but look at the end result; xooligans are sheep green or red, they have to be to stab a fellow Greek. And to close my post I will simply state that PAOs management has nothing to do with Kokkalis... They are completely different same thing to me, they both encourage it and they both have the power to stop it; simple as that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montreal_Thrillos Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 this fan violence has really got to stop even in france they do these things check out this article http://soccernet.espn.go.com/headlinenews?...=321789&cc=5901 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYC_Olympiakos Posted January 14, 2005 Author Share Posted January 14, 2005 this thing will never end the hearing was stopped today b/c their was a bomb threat but it was all a hoax their better be no lost points period Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zachos Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 I claim pao and oly are different: 1)It seems to me that oly owners are using the fans to press the government not to yield absolute control of the championship to pao. Is it true that government tries to do this shift of power? Yes, but when OLy did it 8 years ago Pao's press did not say karagiozilikia of the type "go on the streets to protect our team" (from fos or/and protathlitis recently). 2)I agree with Pappou argument about the newspapers and add that such a huge difference in circulation of gauropapers cannot be accounted even if oly fans are double in numbers (which I do not thing). 3)Find and ask some old objective fan. He will tell you that in the last 50 years hooliganism is far more related to OLY that any other Greek team's fans. I wish I had the data to support this, but I am sure it can be found. And finally a question: if the rules of the game have to become more strict in Greece, in order to eradicate violence, why don't you Oly fans agree that your team must be severelly penalyzed? It should start from something, should't it? :angry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elastonpappou 13 Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 Indeed Zachos... And then they call me fanatical... Protathliti, your calculations are innacurate.. I will say it again... Protathlitis circullations hasn't got anything to do with the numbers of fans... Sportime and Filathlos sell DOUBLE the amounts of Fos and Protathliti.... And if you want to talk about numbers then may I inform you that Athens based Thrynos fans are much LESS than PAO fans (unfortunately...). What makes Thrynos the most popular team in Greece is the support from OUTSIDE of Athens (i.e. the Islands)... To back up my statement, do you know the most populated areas in Athens? Here it is according to municipality facts 1. Nikaia 2. Patisia 3. Zografou 4. Kipseli 5. Peristeri 6. Abelokipi Now Abelokipi, Kipseli and Patisia are all in the Municipality of Athens and you can hardly find any Thrylos fans there... Also Municipality of Zografou is probably (after Nikaia) the MOST POPULATED municipality in Attiki (i say it again excluding the municipality of Nikaia and the municipality of Athens)... The circullation of the press is very different between PAO and OSFP papers and tha is not due to numbers... Derby sells only around 5-6.000 papers a day which is NOTHING compared to the number of the PAO fans in Athens... It is just pure logic and based on historical facts as well... Oly fans are more fanatical, come from lower social levels (I am not undermining anything this is the basic idea of Oly anyway) and Oly traditionally represents the mass, "LAO", "Ergatiki taksi" or whatever you wanna call it... Admit it, that is the main idea and culture of your club... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Protathlitis Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 Elaston file mou, i have heard that OSFP has easily the most fans in Athens and like you said OSFP fans come from the more working class, urban section of society and therefore I assume that OSFP fans in the city Athens because it is a CITY and Cities are where urban class comes from. Anyways when you start talking about municipality populations you lose sight of the real issue: I wish you didnt get stuck on that part of my post file mou, because the more important part was the bit about sheep and hooliganism ok Admit it, that is the main idea and culture of your club... What main idea man? OSFP is a club which represents Peiraias and red fans all over the world. What main idea; its a football club not an religion or ideology; ti les mope?. WHat is pao's main idea? :huh: just to clarify what my whole point was again: A XOOLIGAN IS A HOOLIGAN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Protathlitis Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 And finally a question: if the rules of the game have to become more strict in Greece, in order to eradicate violence, why don't you Oly fans agree that your team must be severelly penalyzed? It should start from something, should't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elastonpappou 13 Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 Protathliti the sentence you are quoting is not on its own. I said several other staff to let people know what I mean by saying 'idea' and 'culture' of the club. I know its a football club but as of everything you make selections on things you support by being based on some idea or coulture or situation that fits you... No one becomes Thrynos or PAO by waking up one morning... There are several things that lead you to become a supporter of one of these teams...(Place you grew up, location, parential influence, etc etc)... I personally cannot understand how a person from Crete might support PAOK or a person from Mytilini might support Olympiakos, or a person from Halkida to support PAO... I understand for someone to have some prefererences over the big teams (if his real team is very weak and not competitive of the A division teams) but I can't understand how a Peiraiotis for example might support a different team other than Thrynos... I have given you just the basic factor (based on location) of why people select to support a particular team... Of course there are several other factors that lead you to the support of a team... Now over the years many people have forgotten that each team does not only represent football but several other things. Unfortunatelly for the reason mentioned above, people DO NOT KNOW why the support a particular team. As a result the only common thing between teams that has survived over the years is Hooliganism... ;) I want to believe that PAO and OSFP fan have nothing in common apart from loving the same sport... Other than that we are very different (I am talking about the true fans and not the ones who woke up one morning supporting one of these teams)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CH-Thrylos Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 it looks like this subject can again be put to the list of endless discussions. i think it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zachos Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 WHy doesent pao cop the penalty for the actions of their fans this weekend occasions then? You see this my fellow Gavroi, they are so fanatic themseleves that they have convinced themselves that OSFP fans are tooo fanatic :LOL: Seriously it just goes around and around in circles OK. I agree that whenever PAO fans enter in thousands without a ticket and they instigate such violence that the game will not start, PAO should be strictly penalized. We agree here. I would not say no to start from PAO if they do sth like this!! For example, the Euthimiadis image is a disgrace and I agree. What I am trying to tell you and you do not want to understand is that for any Euthimiadi there are 3 OLY incidents!!! OK??? THERE ARE STUPID FANS EVERYWHERE BUT OLY FANS ARE MORE VIOLENT (as showns by the frequency of violent occurences). Perhaps only PAOK fans can rival them, and they are much fewer. But it is funny that you try to see everything as the same....Do you know how dangerous is is to enter without distinctive features and mix with the other teams's crowd? You can have victims... :nono: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evergreen Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 I personally cannot understand how a person from Crete might support PAOK or a person from Mytilini might support Olympiakos, or a person from Halkida to support PAO... I understand for someone to have some prefererences over the big teams (if his real team is very weak and not competitive of the A division teams) but I can't understand how a Peiraiotis for example might support a different team other than Thrynos... I have given you just the basic factor (based on location) of why people select to support a particular team... Of course there are several other factors that lead you to the support of a team... For that pron a personal point of view. I was influenced by my father to become a PAO fan when I went to Greece as a 12 year old when I asked team which team I should support after being hastled and cajoled by other kids that I should support PAO or Oly (there was only 1 xanouni in the village and he wasn't even from the village, you hear that mouse??? :D there was 1 PAOK fan too but he was a convert from PAO after he served in the army with PAOK's Kostas Malioufas and because he became good friends with him). My dad on the other hand, became a PAO from a man that came to the village in the mid-50's who would go to PAO games. The kids of the village were curious about somone that went to games back in those days, he taught them a couple songs from the stands and that was it! It wasn't hard to influence 7-8 year olds then who had no TV, not even a radio and just got their info from word of mouth. All this back in a small Mitilini village. Olympiakos built their fanbase over Greece in the 50's with a great team they had that won 6 straight whilst PAO achieved it through the 60's where we won half the league titles in that decade and then topped it off with the road to Wembley in 71. In Saloniki Iraklis, and Aris had the most fans til PAOK's great team in the 70's and it's amazing how PAOK has such a massive fan base without the club been able to show many honours which usually get you new generations of supporters. It all goes down from father to son there with fathers telling kids that they should not support the Big 3 of Athens because they are not Makedones like them!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziaka Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 The fines are in. The Athletic Judges have reached their decisions concerning the Panionios - Olympiakos game. Here are the fines: Neos Panionios - Deducted 3 points from the league table - 4 games behind closed doors - 100,000 Euro fine Achilleas Beos - Not allowed to hold any position with Neos Panionios for 2 months. - 10,000 Euro fine Olympiakos - Olympiakos is deducted 3 points from the league table - 4 games behind closed doors - 300,000 Euro fine The game between the 2 teams is declared null and void and will not be re-scheduled. None of the involved teams receive any points. All involved can appeal the decision with EPO. ------------------------- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Protathlitis Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 Protathliti the sentence you are quoting is not on its own. I said several other staff to let people know what I mean by saying 'idea' and 'culture' of the club. I know its a football club but as of everything you make selections on things you support by being based on some idea or coulture or situation that fits you... No one becomes Thrynos or PAO by waking up one morning... There are several things that lead you to become a supporter of one of these teams...(Place you grew up, location, parential influence, etc etc)... File mou this is getting tiresom, yes location and different things determine which team you support etc.: ALL IRRELEVANT TO WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT. To say that today OSFP fans still come from a certain section of society is ridiculous considering that we are 48% of Greeks; that figure is too overwhelming to say that red dont come from all walks of life. Now, what are you saying? are you saying that all OSFP fans are working class and asia minor refugees therefore different to the middle class pao fans? because if you are then think again. Ill say again OSFP is a football club which has become an international organisation, we arent facists like lazio or upper class like other teams all over the world nor is it a religion: i already have a religion: Christianity :) . OSFP is a football club which represents its fans all over the world and the fans represent OSFP. BUT ALL THIS IS IRRELEVENT because if, like you say, pao has a different culture which doesent encourage hooliganism; which i dont think it does, it doesent matter because the end result IS IN FACT HOOLIGANISM and acts of hooliganism no better or worse than actions carried out by red Xooligans. AND dont forget aek in all of this their hooligans are exactly the same aswell :D But it is funny that you try to see everything as the same....Do you know how dangerous is is to enter without distinctive features and mix with the other teams's crowd? You can have victims That is the best post of 2005; this guy is actually saying that my arguement about hooligans being the same falls down because he is pointing out that if hooligans of different teams went in the same section violence would break out :LOL: therefore hooligans of differet clubs are different: i hope that I misunderstood what you were saying re. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zachos Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 Protathliti, What I mean is that only OLy fans in the lattest years perform such "doo" without tickets and are placed with other teams fans, with the fear to have victims. I remember also with OFI last year. So they are not the same in that they do sth very dangerous. But if you remember cases of such "doo" by other fans let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYC_Olympiakos Posted January 15, 2005 Author Share Posted January 15, 2005 the punishments have been handed out and its bad it could cost Olympiakos the title lost points overall 3 points 4 games ban for both teams Panionios has a higher fine than us i mean i can understand losing our ground for four games and it really hurts Olympiakos pocket but the lost points i don't like it can affect the outcome of the title and u know this won't stop the violence god help us if Olympiakos loses the title with 0-3 points we all know wut will happen too stop this go to the core of the leaders of these groups England did it Greece has too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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