Olympiakos - Panathinaikos

[Panos13]

First of all, we are not making excuses. YOU and the rest of Oly fans are making excuses by saying that the Oly group is the hardest like you just did. The reason you say this is because when you fail to reach the next stage (as per usual of course) you have the excuse that your group was tough.

Secondly, we know there is still 2 matchdays to play. that's what I have been saying to youir Oly-fans friends who say Oly are better than PAO this year in Europe. I keep saying please wait till December. This is because I am sure you will lose your next two games and go out. I mean how many times have you guys finished better than PAO in Europe? This year will be no different if histiry is anything to go by, ok?

Thirdly, it is not and excuse that if not for PAO, Greece would not be having 3 cloubs in the champions league, THIS IS A FACT. If you want then count the points for yourself. PAO has gained more points for Greece in Europe than Oly, AEK, PAOK, Panionios, etc PUT TOGETHER. If it wasn't for PAO, Greece would be equal with Bulgaria and Hungry in Euro rankings. Do you doubt that? Check THE FACTS....FACTS....

Finally, we haven't won the Greek league so often because the Greek league is governed by Koskotades and Kokalis. We proved in Europe where we had fair refereeing who we are. Now if you were as good as winning 7 championships on merit, without the help of referees, then explain why during the 7 years you did NOT HAVE 1 poreia in Europe? If you were so good why did you lose to Molde, Herenveen and Maccabi while we beat Arsenal, Juventus, Barcelona and other big clubs and made big Poreies in Europe?

Explain....

[Dragonfly]

Dragonfly, as i read your post, i couldnt help notice that you use first person.. e.g

im jst curious why do you do that?? refer to your self as oly and us as pao??

Hollywood...It's typical in the greek language, when there are discussions between fans to use the first person when they're talking about their teams...

As for Panos13 nonsense just above, I have nothing to comment on. You obviously forget that in 1998-99 I played some of the best football Greece has ever seen in Europe (finishing above teams like Porto and Ajax....and not Nantes and Aalborg like you did in 1996), and after having played some good stuff in those games. Not tsoukou-tsoukou (term to describe the very slow defensive football that annoys the opponent and then you find the chance to score).

As you might remember I went out on the Q-finals and had I hold on 5 mins more I would be in the S-finals.... Of course playing against a team like Juventus, not Legia Warsaw like you did in 1996 (to fardos pou legame to exeis akoma kai stis kliroseis...)

As for the rest of the seasons that I played in the CL, in 2000-01 I finished my group with 9 points and at the same time you went through your group gaving collected 8 points!! Meta mas lete na mi milame gia fardos...

Or should I remind you the last season?? I played some good consistent football for 5 games and with 1 bad game I went out. You did the opposite. 5 horrible games and a good one in Glasgow....you're through to the Uefa Cup.

Are you proud for these lucky co-incidents? (I still like to call them fardos cause thas what it is....FARDOS.). Get a life mate.

[Panos13]

Come on now Dragon, the facts are staring you in the face.

The fact is that out of 7 tries, you only had ONE good poreia. Only ONE. You call us lucky but does that logically explain your every failure and my every success!? You maybe lucky or unlucky once or twice, right? But time after time after time, there is something else the reason.

File mou, it is not simply 'unlucky' that in over 20 away games you have only 1 win away from home. Your away record can not simply be explained by bad luck and bad klirosi! What do you say about Molde, Herenveen and Maccabi? What do you call losing 7-0 to the reserves of Juventus last year?

Equally, if you attribute all our success to good klirosi and FARDIA, you are being dishonest with the facts. Maybe you didn;t watch PAO very much. You didn't watch PAO against Juventus, Arsenal and Manchester United at Old Trafford. We lost 3-1 but Ferguson said that we were the best European team they have played and we were the only team that went there who actually wanted to play football. How do you explain 3 tet-a-tet with Barthez? Bad slow football that bores the opponents? Come one now, be honest.

That Legia Warsaw team was there on merit. They were there because in the group stages they EARNED the right to be in the quarter finals. Whatever you say my friend, these are details. The important statistic is that at the start of every year you have stoxo mia kali evropaiki poreia and every year except one you have failed. We are the opposites.

Now we can talk details and individual results and klirosi and dokaria ketalipa....until the end of the world if you like but that doesn't change the one most important statistic...

[Elastonpappou 13]

What do you say about Molde, Herenveen and Maccabi? What do you call losing 7-0 to the reserves of Juventus last year?

I call it DOLOS!!!! :P :P :LOL:

[Montreal_Thrillos]

so u rip us aboput beating european teams and complain our groups is weak yet we look back at 2 gropus last year., 2001=2002... we had a better campaign in terms of points and yet u guys somehow qualified

2001- we won 3 games vs your 2 and u guys qialified

last year u guys won 1 game out of 6 like us u qualified (thanks in large part to power rangers)

2002- u werent even in the C.L u went to uefa

now i can undestand tht u guys tied arsenal and by all means thats great but again last i checked.... u need to win games not tie

look at inter milan : undefeated i in italy wins 9 ties yet they are in the middle of the standings so that makes them power houses

oh and about monaco: they have lost 2 games in 14 in france so where is it that they are weak !

look at the facts in terms of points not oh we tied arneal. etc etc

yawn !

[Montreal_Thrillos]

so u rip us aboput beating european teams and complain our groups is weak yet we look back at 2 gropus last year., 2001=2002... we had a better campaign in terms of points and yet u guys somehow qualified

2001- we won 3 games vs your 2 and u guys qialified

last year u guys won 1 game out of 6 like us u qualified (thanks in large part to power rangers)

2002- u werent even in the C.L u went to uefa

now i can undestand tht u guys tied arsenal and by all means thats great but again last i checked.... u need to win games not tie

look at inter milan : undefeated i in italy wins 9 ties yet they are in the middle of the standings so that makes them power houses

oh and about monaco: they have lost 2 games in 14 in france so where is it that they are weak !

look at the facts in terms of points not oh we tied arneal. etc etc

yawn !

legia warsaw?

when was the last time they went to the C.L?

obviously they were thrown in at the last minute tooo!

[Montreal_Thrillos]

so what was the last quality team u guys beat *not tied* ?

im waiting for an answer

[Panos13]

You can make fun of us beating Legia Warsaw. But the fact is that it's exactly teams like Legia which Oly have lost against. Teams like Molde, Herenveen and Maccabi. Legia were at least the Champions of Poland and looking at historical evidence, your team WOULD NOT be able to beat them.

So make fun of us and our victories, because whatever you say about us, the facts are that yours are worse. There is NO evidence that you would beat the teams we beat. There is EVERY evidence that you would LOSE to the teams we beat :P

[Yaniotis1]

Dragonfly, as i read your post, i couldnt help notice that you use first person.. e.g

im jst curious why do you do that?? refer to your self as oly and us as pao??

Hollywood...It's typical in the greek language, when there are discussions between fans to use the first person when they're talking about their teams...

As for Panos13 nonsense just above, I have nothing to comment on. You obviously forget that in 1998-99 I played some of the best football Greece has ever seen in Europe (finishing above teams like Porto and Ajax....and not Nantes and Aalborg like you did in 1996), and after having played some good stuff in those games. Not tsoukou-tsoukou (term to describe the very slow defensive football that annoys the opponent and then you find the chance to score).

As you might remember I went out on the Q-finals and had I hold on 5 mins more I would be in the S-finals.... Of course playing against a team like Juventus, not Legia Warsaw like you did in 1996 (to fardos pou legame to exeis akoma kai stis kliroseis...)

As for the rest of the seasons that I played in the CL, in 2000-01 I finished my group with 9 points and at the same time you went through your group gaving collected 8 points!! Meta mas lete na mi milame gia fardos...

Or should I remind you the last season?? I played some good consistent football for 5 games and with 1 bad game I went out. You did the opposite. 5 horrible games and a good one in Glasgow....you're through to the Uefa Cup.

Are you proud for these lucky co-incidents? (I still like to call them fardos cause thas what it is....FARDOS.). Get a life mate.

Ok lets prove you wrong one by one, first of all that great soccer you played was in the easiest group in the history of the champions league, dinamo zagreb, and the worst porto and ajax teams in the last couple of decades. Thus your comment about easy draws being wrong. Next, we move to the 2000-2001 year. You group consisted of Valencia, Lyon, and Herenveen, our group consisted of Juventus, Deportivo, and Hamburg. We managed to get on top of Juventus and Hamburg in our group and you couldn't top Herenveen and Lyon. Thus, another retarded comment by you. Lets move onto the next retarded comment, you played good consistent football for 5 games last year? hmmmm Try and think back to your game in spain when you LOST 1-0. You had how many scoring chances???? 1? 2? 3? Try NONE! that was tsoukou tsoukou if i've ever seen it. Then you played a flat Juve AT HOME and still lost somehow 2-1. Then you lost in turkey to a team who this year ins't even in europe. THen you couldn't beat Soceidad in YOUR OWN HOME WITH A 1 MAN ADVANTAGE. Wow, you really were playing consistant. You were consistantly losing. THe point is we both played like crap last year. But when it came down to the last game my team went into Scotland and knocked Rangers out of europe 3-1 and your team got the biggest raping in the history or europe by the bench players of an indiferent Juventus team.

[drakos13]

yeah dragonfly why do you say I played, i had 10000 crowds. man you didnt do s%$#!. if you look for the first person, make it plural. WE. OSFP doesnt consist of only you unfourtunatley.

[NYC_Olympiakos]

Listen OSFP have not been making excuses to get on record

fact is the group we are in is more tighter and competitive look at the numbers if u want or just read what was said earlier

The excuses i continually hear is if it wasn't for Kokkalis, Kokkalis does this and that

well Kokkalis came in 1993 took over a club that was struggled and debt stricken he brought it back to supremacy, he has given us a stadio to be proud off (while Pao fans bitch and say well a 33,000 is not good enough for us we want to get a 45,000 or 50,000 capacity) the excuses just don't stop

the fact is our owner does more and cares more for his club then Pao's owner

Kokkalis as changed alot of coaches in his time which wasn't the right move all the time but he was thinking for OSFP best

he goes out and tries to sign a big name player that not only makes Olympiakos better but The Greek league itself.

what does pao do they always and continue to complain non stop

i mean last years derby Pao v Olympiakos it was just overshadowed how OSFP will buy the refs how Kokkalis is doing that and the game eventually got overshadowed by bad and missed calls

but look in my own estimate we shouldn't have won the Greek title last year we didn't deserve it enough

But this is a new Year with lots of changes being made in Olympiakos for the better and after were done with a couple of Greek league games and Deportivo La Coruna Pao will feel the strength and power of Olympiakos and they will be salivating everything of Olympiakos the players, to the stadio and even the fans

now look don't attempt to change my words around here its crystal and clear

Lets go Olympiakos U GREEK REDS#1

[Panos13]

thrillos:

Are you sure that Kokalis made signings that makes the Greek league better!!!? How many goals has Rivaldo scored for you in Europe compared to someone like Gonzales? How much did each one of them cost.

The nootropia of our two teams has always been and is very different my friend. If you think your nootropia is superior, then ask yourself why you ahev not had the good poreies that PAO has had.

Anyway, let's see how far Rivaldo and other old me you are so proud of get you compared to our players.

If you agree now we suspend this discussion until 9th of December? See you then.

[Montreal_Thrillos]

rivaldo for the record... is making the plays while others score for him remember zagorakis ? great playmaker he scored 1 goal does this mean he sucks? in euro ?

hes getting great reviews from all over the place exept PAO run papers who like OSFP papers have a readership of 10! (people in this forum included)

anyways u people kepe coming p with deifferent stuff to put us down

in case u havent noticed...we dont get offended unlike u guys

always complaning and complaning

when do u guys ever stop

u bitched 7 years for how the greek league is run and u go out and win it like that and even worse have 1 win in the group vs a crap team while we have 2

so what quality team was the last u beat?>

by te ways: u have the bissest poria of them all crying 7 years! (all time recird)

[drakos13]

rivaldo for the record... is making the plays while others score for him remember zagorakis ? great playmaker he scored 1 goal does this mean he sucks? in euro ?

thats irrelevant. Zagorakis isnt that much of a playmaker to begin, he didnt score a goal in the euro, he is a holding central midfeilder

rivaldo is an attacking midfielder a different role completely so dont bother mentioning Zagorakis.

and i would also point out Gonzalez has created and scored a lot more than "2x" rivaldo...

[Montreal_Thrillos]

point is hes playing very well

and so are we especially in the C.L

[HOLLYWOOD]

question: Who do you think at this point is playing better football, rivaldo or Gonzalez?? (remember be honest) im curious to see whos full of s%$#! or whos facing truths...

[NYC_Olympiakos]

Are u guys serious here

I mean comparing Rivaldo to Gonzalez i mean i want to know wut u are on so i can have some too

Just b/c he scored 3 goals in total in C.L. doesn't make him better then Rivaldo

Rivaldo may not be that fifa player of the year anymore but he still better then Gonzalez

Rivaldo isn't in his true form yet anywayz being out of the game for 2 years

but remember this u don't need to score goals to be useful out there he has done all the other things and he has given life and hope to Olympiakos

he is changing that mindset of Olympiakos players that they can play in Europe and win

and he has set up countless goals or shot attempts this season

as for that comment that Kokkalis didn't sign Rivaldo for the Greek league, look that may be true off course he is a business man, but does Pao give a dam about the Greek league i mean all i hear from management and fans is the constant bickering of how its not fair and well when Pao wins they support the Greek league and they condone all that is wrong

Answer this question do u think Rivaldo is good for the Greek league?

I mean the league gets talk from other foreign sites let me hear wut u going to say on that

F*** pao

Lets go Olympiakos#1 U GREEK REDS

[HOLLYWOOD]

Answer this question do u think Rivaldo is good for the Greek league?

I mean the league gets talk from other foreign sites let me hear wut u going to say on that

F*** pao

Lets go Olympiakos#1 U GREEK REDS

i personally think his great for the Greek League...

However u miss understood my question, so ill re-phrase it for you..

from the start of the Greek League, till this point who has been playing better soccer(scoring goals, creating goals, making headlines for the right or wrong reasons ect...), Rivaldo or Gonzalez?? simple...

[NYC_Olympiakos]

and u failed to understand the short comparison i made earlier Gonzalez maybe at the moment in better form then Rivaldo but its more due to Rivaldo being out of the game for such a extended period of time

and its not just the goals here

Rivaldo is just everything on the field tackling, setting up goals , and soon the goals will come and above all Olympiakos is winning but in a few weeks will take care of the matter of Pao being ahead of OSFP at the moment

Lets go Olympiakos#1 U GREEK REDS

[HOLLYWOOD]

so your saying at this point Gonzales is better??

p.s i dnt wnt excuses on why rivaldo isnt as good ( 2 year break)..

[Elastonpappou 13]

and u failed to understand the short comparison i made earlier Gonzalez maybe at the moment in better form then Rivaldo but its more due to Rivaldo being out of the game for such a extended period of time

and its not just the goals here

Rivaldo is just everything on the field tackling, setting up goals , and soon the goals will come and above all Olympiakos is winning but in a few weeks will take care of the matter of Pao being ahead of OSFP at the moment

Lets go Olympiakos#1 U GREEK REDS

Where exactly did you see Rivaldo tackling? :o :huh:

No one can doubt that Rivaldo is a great player with lots of history behind him but in regards to Hollywood's question I think there is no doubt on who is playing better football in Greece.... ;)

Unless walking is considered to be a footballing asset lately.... :P

[GS1905]

OK, guys. I wanna calm down both sides by stating some European evidence...

- Rangers won Scottish Championship nine times in a row and had nothing but s%$#! to celebrate from European competitions.

- Till then Celtic had two championships but a UEFA Cup final to lose out in the stoppage time of the second OverTime.

so, can one tell me who deserves more as to be applauded? Celtic :tup: or Rangers :tdown: ?

- Feyenoord won the UEFA Cup in 2002 but ended up as third in EreDivisie. PSV made it a two-peat but was eliminated in the first round of CL that season. And ironically, Feyenoord knocked out PSV in UEFA Cup Quarter Finals and Dutch Cup Semi Final.

who was better? Feyenoord :tup: or PSV :tdown: ?

- In 2000-01 Turkish SuperLeague, Fenerbahce won the League with a gap of three points.

- Galatasaray reached the Champions League Quarter Finals only to be eliminated by reigning winners Real Madrid (3-2 / 0-3). And while doing that I eliminated teams like Monaco, Milan, SuperDepor, Paris-SG...

so, who was better? Galatasaray :nw: or Ezikbahce :nono: ?

... in my opinion, whoever selects the second option in these choices is a stupid man. winning domestic leagues is nothing compared to a QF played in CL, believe me! Having a s%$#!-made silver/bronze/gold trophy in your locker room doesn't make you renowned but a stroming UEFA CUP/CL run does!

[Panos13]

Well done The Turk:

I have been trying to tell these losers here exactly the same thing. They think they are a bigger and more famous club because they have more Greek Championships. BUT WHO THE HELL CARES ABOUT GREEK LEAGUE. Its as important as the Icelandic or the Irish leagues. It's not like every Monday morning people in Europe pick up the newspaper to read about what happened in the Greek Alpha Ethniki :LOL:

Our Oly friends are very small minded, they support a small-time club and as long as they do you can not expect any better.

Let them go away and be proud of having a 33 year old has-been called Rivaldo.

See what I mean when I say they are small club and small-minded?

By the way, Pele and Maradonna were once great but they are not better than Gonzales at THIS MOMENT IN TIME.

[drakos13]

and u failed to understand the short comparison i made earlier Gonzalez maybe at the moment in better form then Rivaldo but its more due to Rivaldo being out of the game for such a extended period of time

and its not just the goals here

Rivaldo is just everything on the field tackling, setting up goals , and soon the goals will come and above all Olympiakos is winning but in a few weeks will take care of the matter of Pao being ahead of OSFP at the moment

Lets go Olympiakos#1 U GREEK REDS

no its simple EKI is better, face it. arguing over the past he wasnt, but for today its just clear and simple. goals, assists, defense, leadership.........rivaldo is just for show he hasnt done nearly as much.

[Evergreen]

It's a fact that so far , Rivaldo has imposed Olympiakos image. Not only off the pitch, but also on it. That does not nessasarily have to do with him playing to his potential but his mere presence. It's not only him though, Shurrer and Nikopolidis have also helped in that aspect and given the gavroi a spine and substance in Europe. But, not just saying this cause I'm a PAO fan, facts speak that Gonzo's presence has had a greater effect in PAO's results this season and I dare admit that Gonzo is more important than Rivaldo and would be missed much more if both are taken out of the teams.

We all agree that Rivaldo has a great past but this does not help Olympiakos on the pitch and he may not be able to raise his standards to those we've witnessed in the past, on the other hand, Equi always brings home the goodies either with an assist or a goal from nowhere, is still young and aspiring and is looking with his performances to go to Italy or Spain in a year or two, Riva on the other hand would be content because he's done it all in his career and Oly gave him the opportunity when most people had him written off. The thing is though that there is a big difference in wanting to do something and your body and age allowing you too. Some players can last longer and play well to 35-36, Riva though seems to be out of "juice" at 32 mainly because that 2 year lay-off made him lose his sharpness. I'll give you an example. Goran Vlaovic can as a relatively big name from Greek football standards at a good age (28) but those 2 years of only playing 5-6 games for Valencia made him lose his touch somewhat and was not effective at times even with the most mediocre opposition.

Being truthful, from the moment Rivaldo is not playing that well now that the season is 1/3 through, I can't see him improving towards the end when stamina comes into account.

On the other hand, I think Oly's most important player and barometer for your performances is Djordjevic. I have always been jeleous of us not having a player such as him. He's not only a great personality and leader but of the few little players of Oly that I have great respect for because he's never become a karagiozi on the front pages on the Protathliti. He's "Warzycha and Karataidis-like". Respect to him.