SL–R23: PAOK - Olympiakos (25 Feb 18, 19:30 EET)

[Klaous]

Yeah, of course he is trying to safe his own skin, but so do we! To hell with Aretopoulos, he did some tremendous mistakes!

Btw, our lawyer is claiming that the judge accepted the estimation of the professor that someone who has an injury inside from an object thrown at him must have an injury on his outer skin too. 

[pash]

Everything is conjecture at this point. We have no idea if the judge will consider that relevant.

[Klaous]

Yeah, the most important thing will be now to show that Aretopoulos has indeed done some mistakes in the game proceedings and match report. If PAE PAOK can prove that, then Aretopoulos as well as Olympiakos will be the ones in trouble, not PAOK.

However, if Aretopoulos claims cannot be rejected then we will face a -3 point deduction, 2-3 ghost games and a monetary fine. He basically claims that he suspended the match because Garcia was injured by an object thrown from the stands and that Garcia was listed in time. Both claims are problematic for us but we shall not forget that this guy is trying to save his own skin too. 

We shall see. Even with a punishment, we will win the championship. 7/7 wins it will be. 

 

Edited March 2, 2018 by Klaous

[pash]

Keep in mind that it would be a 0-3 loss for this game as well. Doesn't change the math, but I for one would be happy with saving any points at all. Could make all the difference if we have one screw-up in the coming month or two.

Either way, we'll know on Monday. And then of course we'll see when the inevitable appeal takes place.

As an aside - I'm glad they caught that guy. Is there any word on him being banned for the next ten years? Because that's the FIRST thing they should have done. And they need to KEEP doing it, every single frigging time, until the fans learn.

[Klaous]

Here is the match report:

 

Here is what Aretopoulos claimed today: 

However, according to article 15 paragraph 9 of the ΚΑΠ the match report is more important than any claims by the referee after that. 

http://www.sdna.gr/podosfairo/superleague/article/439819/paok-ksekatharos-o-kap-fa-einai-pano-apo-tis-sympliromatikes

Very fishy. Aretopoulos might just have saved his beloved team but we will see about that. 

[Blackhawk]

It was a very bad day at the office for the PAOK lawyers. All five of them. The verdict of this case has been known even before the case was heard because it's all a fabricated event. It was Olympiakos's intent from day one to never finish the game. They had everything in place. They had their own ref in the game and could always count on him to present things in the match report that suited them. Even if that involved changing the match report later on.The fact that the judge did not allow any of the evidence presented by our team spells bad news on Monday. We will get -3 points and lose the game on paper. There will be appeals, but I am not holding my breath.

The immediate result will be the fact that we will play against AEK with empty Toumba, even if we win down the road on appeals.

Right now the standings are:

1. PAOK              52   (23 games)
2. AEK                 51   (24 games)
3. Olympiakos   43   (23 games)

After the punishments (and Olympiakos getting back the 3 point deductions):

1. AEK                 51   (24 games)
2. Olympiakos   49    (23 games)
3. PAOK              49   (24 games)

We win the 7 games and Olympiakos wins their 7 games, Olympiakos wins the title due to tie breaker. That was their goal all along before the game on Sunday.

[Klaous]

1 hour ago, pash said:

Keep in mind that it would be a 0-3 loss for this game as well. Doesn't change the math, but I for one would be happy with saving any points at all. Could make all the difference if we have one screw-up in the coming month or two.

Either way, we'll know on Monday. And then of course we'll see when the inevitable appeal takes place.

As an aside - I'm glad they caught that guy. Is there any word on him being banned for the next ten years? Because that's the FIRST thing they should have done. And they need to KEEP doing it, every single frigging time, until the fans learn.

If I was the "fan" who did that, I would not leave my house anymore. He lives near the stadium btw, I think he is screwed for his life. 

Savvidis needs to get rid of the scum in our stands as soon as possible. Rumours are that the guy who did that, was also part of the σύνδεσμο that tried to go to Lamia to make some φασαρίες.

Anyhow, with the -3 that is now the most likely punishment, the mythos that PAOK has the best supporters in Greece DIED on sunday. Our fans did absolutely NOTHING this season. We had 7 matches without fans and won all of them! Now we had one derby and we lose the chance for 3 points and additionally lose 3 points thanks to our "great" fans! 

And yes, I know it was just one guy in this case, but we have a lot of idiots in there, not just that one imbecile who threw the paper roll. Remember the guys that wanted to go to Lamia? For what? To do what? Because they wanted to make trouble and show their μαγκία, I say get rid of those fools who think they can sabotage our club because of their hooliganism.  

Savvidis? Do us a favor and close the Toumpa for the rest of the season. We do not deserve you and this great team you have invested your money in. You are better without us and I am glad that we will play against AEK without any fans since the only one who can stop us from getting the championship are ironically our own fans.

We will win the championship regardless of what happens on Monday because we have the best team in Greece right now. Despite having also the most brainless fans in our stands. 

Edited March 2, 2018 by Klaous

[Klaous]

30 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

It was a very bad day at the office for the PAOK lawyers. All five of them. The verdict of this case has been known even before the case was heard because it's all a fabricated event. It was Olympiakos's intent from day one to never finish the game. They had everything in place. They had their own ref in the game and could always count on him to present things in the match report that suited them. Even if that involved changing the match report later on.The fact that the judge did not allow any of the evidence presented by our team spells bad news on Monday. We will get -3 points and lose the game on paper. There will be appeals, but I am not holding my breath.

The immediate result will be the fact that we will play against AEK with empty Toumba, even if we win down the road on appeals.

Right now the standings are:

1. PAOK              52   (23 games)
2. AEK                 51   (24 games)
3. Olympiakos   43   (23 games)

After the punishments (and Olympiakos getting back the 3 point deductions):

1. AEK                 51   (24 games)
2. Olympiakos   49    (23 games)
3. PAOK              49   (24 games)

We win the 7 games and Olympiakos wins their 7 games, Olympiakos wins the title due to tie breaker. That was their goal all along before the game on Sunday.

I don't think so. Olympiakos intention on Sunday was to bring as much harm on our club as possible. Not to win the championship. They will also not get any points back, no club in Greece got its points back after such heavy charges.

Now back to us, it is possible that we might win in second instance because of irregularities regarding the match procedure of the referee Aretopoulos. I do not believe that all is lost on Monday. The war at the courts will continue, I am sure about this. 

7/7 wins and we do not have to worry about anything else. The championship will be ours. 

Edited March 2, 2018 by Klaous

[Alphonse]

43 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

After the punishments (and Olympiakos getting back the 3 point deductions):

1. AEK                 51   (24 games)
2. Olympiakos   49    (23 games)
3. PAOK              49   (24 games)

We win the 7 games and Olympiakos wins their 7 games, Olympiakos wins the title due to tie breaker. That was their goal all along before the game on Sunday.

Surley Olympiakos don’t get the 3 points back for the AEK riots, their reasons have been pathetic to say the least, more so they should be due to lose 3 points, Elladistan can’t be that stupid... well surley 

[pash]

I think the least likely of the above events would be that Olympiakos gets back those three points.

Blackhawk, where did you hear they weren't allowed to enter any evidence? Is that beyond the witnesses that we know spoke?

[Alphonse]

6 hours ago, pash said:

If it become a he-said, he-said issue...who are they going to trust? A PAOK-employed doctor or the FIFA-certified referee?

Isn't this on EPO? I though the official doctor who was approved by EPO was in fact a PAOK employed doc so something along those lines.

[pash]

True, he is EPO-certified. But at the end of the day, I can't see the league siding with a doctor over one of their favorite refs.

[Alphonse]

5 hours ago, Dutch Eagle said:

I thought EPO would have appointed a neutral ref. But silly me. They didn’t. 

Ellas mate... land of the stupid sometimes... 

[Alphonse]

5 hours ago, Klaous said:

The mistake does not matter haha. Good one. Our "mistake" does not matter too then. Welcome to Elladistan. 

It is clear that Aretopoulos was sleeping on that evening. However, the law is clear, officials only. You can punish Aretopoulos too for not proceeding UEFA regularities. Regardless, Garcia was not an Olympiakos official that night. 

Unless you get an independent non Greek court this is not really hold much ground, Aretopoulos is saving his bacon and saying the match sheet was fine or the change was on time - this makes this whole issue void to the judge

[Blackhawk]

51 minutes ago, pash said:

I think the least likely of the above events would be that Olympiakos gets back those three points.

Blackhawk, where did you hear they weren't allowed to enter any evidence? Is that beyond the witnesses that we know spoke?

During the blow-by-blow report on Fair Play Radio they said that when our legal team tried to show the video showing the paper hitting Garcia on the shoulder instead of the mouth Skoulariki refused to see it and did not let it be part of evidence.  

The match doctor was certified by Superleague and he was the match doctor at PAOK home games in the past. He is also the PAOK team doctor for youth teams, but that has no bearing on the Superleague games as he is officially certified by the league. Olympaikos legal team just repeated the PAOK connection in order to make him look bad in the eyes of the judge.

As for the Olympiakos 3 points I will not be surprise if they get them back. There is a reason why their appeal gets postponed over and over.

[Blackhawk]

As for the 7/7 scenario. As a PAOK fan I would really want that scenario to happen. It would be the best revenge on Olympiakos and AEK after all the back stabbing.

They went through all this length to stage the event on Sunday. What makes you think they will stop now. They have at least  9 chance s (including the 2 cup games) to stage other events that they can manipulate to cut more points from us.

[Klaous]

1 minute ago, Alphonse said:

Unless you get an independent non Greek court this is not really hold much ground, Aretopoulos is saving his bacon and saying the match sheet was fine or the change was on time - this makes this whole issue void to the judge

Yeah you are right, I have not expected this outcome. But now that I have read the match report I am not 100% sure myself what is true and what is not since the match report is written very general and avoids to make any clear statement. 

Anyway, the match report claims that the list of the club officials was handed in within the "expected time". But Garcia was listed 15 minutes later. Now the question is what does this mean? Were the lists handed in right before the deadline? Was there any time left? Or was it too late? The match report does not say anything about this. If the game observer backs up that Garcia was listed in time than this argument is indeed void. 

Now of course the second question is whether or not Garcia was able to play. Nobody of us was at the court of course, but after the PAOK lawyer said that Garcia was for 15 minutes not seen and Olympiakos could have hurt him as well there the judge replied with a "I did not expect to hear this". Well, then what did you expect to hear? Shouldn't you rather ask Olympiakos what they were doing in this 15 minutes? Or did you expect nothing unusual there? Why does a judge even have expectations as an allegedly neutral person? Haven't you read the reports of the match or do you think it is business as usual that a team rejects for 15 minutes any medical attention and locks itself in into the changing rooms? Yep, nothing to see here and nothing to expect here, what a joke. 

Έλλας το μεγαλείο σου. 

[Alphonse]

You just want to bang your head against a wall hey... He should have asked what were you guys doing for 15 mins, it would have been some ridiculous answer , cringe worthy I bet but def worth asking to see what vlakia comes back. 

PAOK called in a coroner, now if this guys makes a reasonable case something could come of this, I still don't find the justification at a cut lip could lead to all this... PAOK arrested the idiot that's started all this, the injury is not that bad, I don't think it needed hospitalization that's for sure but now dodgy reff, Areopoulos has changed his report which just makes things more gray.

What I'm not 100% is the doctor case... was Garcia observed by the "official doctor"? The PAOK guy, be that may be , he was the official doc thanks to EPO.

Edited March 2, 2018 by Alphonse

[Blackhawk]

The biggest mistake by PAOK was allowing Aretopoulos to be the ref of this game! They should have asked Superleague for him to be excused from the  game.There is a reason why his original match report was vaguely written. That gave him and his masters (Oly lawyers) ample time to re-write it later so it would suit them during the hearing. Also it was him that told Olympiakos officials that they had the wrong coach listed on the original report.  

[Blackhawk]

2 minutes ago, Alphonse said:

What I'm not 100% is the doctor case... was Garcia observed by the "official doctor"? The PAOK guy, but be that may be , he was the official doc thanks to EPO.

He was examined by the official doctor after the 15 minutes that they were locked in the locker room. After his examination he informed Aretopoulos that his injury does not prevent him from calling the game. Aretopoulos apparently wrote this initially in the match report, but changed it later.

[Klaous]

9 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

As for the 7/7 scenario. As a PAOK fan I would really want that scenario to happen. It would be the best revenge on Olympiakos and AEK after all the back stabbing.

They went through all this length to stage the event on Sunday. What makes you think they will stop now. They have at least  9 chance s (including the 2 cup games) to stage other events that they can manipulate to cut more points from us.

Believe me, we are going to win this championship, regardless of how many rocks or paper rolls they are trying to throw at us. 

Savvidis has to make sure that Toumpa is closed for the rest of the season though. 

[Bananas]

The fix is in paidia.  We need DENNY CRANE.

[Klaous]

7 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

The biggest mistake by PAOK was allowing Aretopoulos to be the ref of this game! They should have asked Superleague for him to be excused from the  game.There is a reason why his original match report was vaguely written. That gave him and his masters (Oly lawyers) ample time to re-write it later so it would suit them during the hearing. Also it was him that told Olympiakos officials that they had the wrong coach listed on the original report.  

Although it is too late now, I believe that Aretopoulos will never be in Toumpa again. Papas who screwed us two years ago in the Kypello semi-finals against Olympiakos was not selected as a referee anymore after what happened there. Savvidis needs to make sure that Aretopoulos will face the same fate. 

[Alphonse]

7 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

He was examined by the official doctor after the 15 minutes that they were locked in the locker room. After his examination he informed Aretopoulos that his injury does not prevent him from calling the game. Aretopoulos apparently wrote this initially in the match report, but changed it later.

WOW... Thanks for the info Blackhawk

This is massive...  I'm stunned. 

@Klaous you have this don't you, does Aretopoulos write this?

[Klaous]

4 minutes ago, Alphonse said:

WOW... Thanks for the info Blackhawk

This is massive...  I'm stunned. 

@Klaous you have this don't you, does Aretopoulos write this?

Yes, in the match report most of this is written. However, no clear mention if whether or not Garcia is able to play. Only that the doctor of the match reported his status to Aretopoulos. Aretopoulos avoids to write down what exactly the doctor told him. However, it is written in the match report that Garcia is not feeling well and Olympiakos is therefore leaving.