Bananas
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Posts posted by Bananas
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Other than accusations from Varoufakis, I don't read any sort of proposed solution to Greece's debt problems.
Yes.
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All those anti-drachma morons will see the error of their ways when Greece needs a 4th bailout. Maybe Krugman didn't win a Nobel Prize. It must've been a Moron Prize.
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Posted from Varoufakis blog http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2015/07/14/on-the-euro-summits-statement-on-greece-first-thoughts/
In the next hours and days, I shall be sitting in Parliament to assess the legislation that is part of the recent Euro Summit agreement on Greece. I am also looking forward to hearing in person from my comrades, Alexis Tsipras and Euclid Tsakalotos, who have been through so much over the past few days. Till then, I shall reserve judgment regarding the legislation before us. Meanwhile, here are some first, impressionistic thoughts stirred up by the Euro Summit?s Statement.
- A New Versailles Treaty is haunting Europe ? I used that expression back in the Spring of 2010 to describe the first Greek ?bailout? that was being prepared at that time. If that allegory was pertinent then it is, sadly, all too germane now.
- Never before has the European Union made a decision that undermines so fundamentally the project of European Integration. Europe?s leaders, in treating Alexis Tsipras and our government the way they did, dealt a decisive blow against the European project.
- The project of European integration has, indeed, been fatally wounded over the past few days. And as Paul Krugman rightly says, whatever you think of Syriza, or Greece, it wasn?t the Greeks or Syriza who killed off the dream of a democratic, united Europe.
- Back in 1971 Nick Kaldor, the noted Cambridge economist, had warned that forging monetary union before a political union was possible would lead not only to a failed monetary union but also to the deconstruction of the European political project. Later on, in 1999, German-British sociologist Ralf Dahrendorf also warned that economic and monetary union would split rather than unite Europe. All these years I hoped that they were wrong. Now, the powers that be in Brussels, in Berlin and in Frankfurt have conspired to prove them right.
- The Euro Summit statement of yesterday morning reads like a document committing to paper Greece?s Terms of Surrender. It is meant as a statement confirming that Greece acquiesces to becoming a vassal of the Eurogroup.
- The Euro Summit statement of yesterday morning has nothing to do with economics, nor with any concern for the type of reform agenda capable of lifting Greece out of its mire. It is purely and simply a manifestation of the politics of humiliation in action. Even if one loathes our government one must see that the Eurogroup?s list of demands represents a major departure from decency and reason.
- The Euro Summit statement of yesterday morning signalled a complete annulment of national sovereignty, without putting in its place a supra-national, pan-European, sovereign body politic. Europeans, even those who give not a damn for Greece, ought to beware.
- Much energy is expended by the media on whether the Terms of Surrender will pass through Greek Parliament, and in particular on whether MPs like myself will toe the line and vote in favour of the relevant legislation. I do not think this is the most interesting of questions. The crucial question is: Does the Greek economy stand any chance of recovery under these terms? This is the question that will preoccupy me during the Parliamentary sessions that follow in the next hours and days. The greatest worry is that even a complete surrender on our part would lead to a deepening of the never-ending crisis.
- The recent Euro Summit is indeed nothing short of the culmination of a coup. In 1967 it was the tanks that foreign powers used to end Greek democracy. In my interview with Philip Adams, on ABC Radio National?s LNL, I claimed that in 2015 another coup was staged by foreign powers using, instead of tanks, Greece?s banks. Perhaps the main economic difference is that, whereas in 1967 Greece?s public property was not targeted, in 2015 the powers behind the coup demanded the handing over of all remaining public assets, so that they would be put into the servicing of our un-payble, unsustainable debt.
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Heck, I'd vote for the Benny Hill party if their policy was a controlled Grexit.
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The next day will be like the last. All talk no action. Everyone looking towards everyone else to do something, with no one doing anything. I am keen to be proven wrong.
I see no meaningful changes and a 4th bailout in 3 years. I see XA getting 10% of the vote at the next election.
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Reaper, I agree with you about the number of "leftists". I also agree with you that their reasoning (in this day and age) is juvenile at best, down right stupid at worst.
But I just don't buy the idea that they have run the country into the ground. I put most of the blame on governments of the past who didn't have the guts to make appropriate reforms. The reforms never had to super radical. No government really does that. It's just a series of usually small incremental changes and tweaks year after year. In Greece's case, there has been very little or none, which has gotten us to this point.
Fixing the taxation system alone is 10 year project I believe. Maybe the kids who start University today will have graduated in 10 years from now to help with the mammoth project of reforming Greece. :)
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I don't think Koulouris is ready yet. If he was, well, it would've shown last year. He probably needs to go on loan and get some game time under his belt. Then again, he might be better off training under Tudor.
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Kitsiou and Skondras are different sort of players. Kitsiou is definitely a better attacker than Skondras, and Skondras is definitely a better defender. Skondras can only really player anywhere in the back line, and is versatile along there. He can play as a CB or LB if required. He's more rugged and aggressive. Kitsiou can play almost as a right mid, albeit not a superb one. I would say his natural position is a wing back, and the 3-5-2 suits him perfectly, as he then has cover behind him. Kitsiou can also play in the middle if required. Konstantinidis, I'm not so sure about ...
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I don't mind that the games are all together. The only part that is a worry is that we play the "big 3" all at Toumba in the 1st round. Hopefully they don't get carried away at Round 8 if we happen to near the top of the ladder with "we're going to win the title" vlakies.
After you play the big 3 in the 2nd round, and if near the top, then you can start talking. Until then, pexte bala!
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Last I heard Rajkovic was looking for something in Germany. I am sure if he does not find something by August, he will knock on PAOK's door again.
And I will be very unhappy if we answer the door. :)
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Lots of talk within this thread as well as in the world press about "reforms, reforms". But this takes time. This doesn't excuse the pathetic state of affairs in Greece, but to get Greece to Germany's level in terms of taxation collection, regulation etc, you realistically need probably 10 years. This will take a long time ...
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Relax guys Greece did what they had to do, by proving that they're willing to go the 9 yards to stay in Europe.
The opposition in Germany, and the people are criticizing the way they handled and blackmailed Greece....The environment is changing every second,..Greece will get out of this....With debt relief and a easing on the collateral....England is also favoring Greece...Relax!!!
Very true. A lot of bewilderment around the world at what has happened in the last few weeks. Yeah there is lots of the usual "why can't they just pay back the debt" coming even from Greeks themselves, but a lot of economists, politicians etc, people with "clout" are amazed and not impressed at what is happening.
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The reality has been, since 1821, that Greece has heavily relied upon others to accomplish important milestones that had lasting consequences*. The exception was the Balkan wars in 1912-13. It's been a long history of bad governments & self-governance. Mistakes upon mistakes, only to have people say something like, "they hate us and that's why they want to control us."
So true. Especially the part about the bad governments. Unfortunately, Greece has never really had someone that went into government just to try and help the country, apart from a select few. I can't think of anyone in recent times.
Having said that, the EU is now trying to control Greece. We are this ping pong ball that's now stuck between Germany and France. The Germans believe they can cut us loose (please do!), and the EU will be all right. Based on their past predictions from the 1st bail out onwards, I wouldn't put too much stock in their predictions. The French and Italians are deathly afraid of us being booted from the Euro, hence why they were so against Schauble's 5 year Grexit plan. And to top it off, Hollande is saying the Greeks weren't humiliated at all.
In the meantime, the Greeks have eaten well, danced, sung, partied and are passing on the bill to their children. Shameful behaviour all round from everyone.
As for the "European Project", well, we all know who is the boss now!
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Organise who? Greeks? Kazantzakis said it best. You need to tip everyone living in Greece into the sea and start again. Anyone with any type of sense of the common good is usually run out of town.
When the Junta collapsed, Papadreou formally invited every far leftist that had been expelled from Greece back to Greece and gave them cushy jobs and early pensions. These people built the Greece they wanted to see.
Reaper you go on and on about the leftists. If you were to remove all the leftists from the country, what would the population of Greece be ?
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You should have asked me instead of pash. I would have done it for half the price.
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Fetfatzidis will get minutes at Genoa. Genoa was forced to offload several of last seasons attacking options and now more or less have a whole new offensive three.
I hope so. The "kid" is 24 years of age and has spent his professional career coming off the bench.
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GREEK BLOODED. Christ. Get off your high horse for a second.
Who gives two shits if he goes to the beach? What's the soccer equivalent of an armchair general?
You can't get more Greek blooded than Daniel Batista Lima. Always loved seeing the Ethniki photos with him In the squad.
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He's a bit of a risk to be fair. He's been very injury prone and hasn't played consistently. He did have a decent run of games last season but his injuries coupled with the fact that he'll want a hefty wage, means I don't really want him. If we had money to burn, sure, take the chance, but for the wages he'll want, I'd prefer someone more reliable.
Enough of these has beens using PAOK as a recovery hospital. Yes, I'm looking at you Maduro and Maartens.
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^@JS100 You're 100% correct. Tsipras failed to realize that although the majority of the Greek people voted to stay in the EU, he should have never seen that as a reason not to put major time and effort into having the fall back plan of re-developing the drachma. Had Greece walked into the negotiations with the referendum and that fall back plan I think Greece would have faired much better in the negotiations. Either ways, this deal is degrading and the Greek people will be kicking themselves for wanting to remain in the euro so badly. Maybe they'll realize that the euro will go down as one of the worst economic unions of all time.
I am amazed this wasn't the first thing discussed the minute Syriza (or whoever won the election) got into government. The best thing Greece could have done is have a fall back plan. The only possible problem to this could be the narrow time frame of 6 months or so from getting into government until the bailout ran out.
Either way, the day I realised how terrible the EU is, was the day they replaced Papandreou for "daring" to even mention a referendum. The way that episode played out, was an eye opener. The world is realising now, but the EU showed its colors then. That was when all the major parties in Greece should have got together and started planning for a Grexit. Not to necessarily do it, but to be prepared as possible if need be.
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I just don't see any pros in sticking with the Euro. Even if Greece had zero debt, it's economy would be better off without an overvalued currency that affects your competitiveness.
The sticking point is the changeover, which would be harsh at best, chaotic at worst. But as you say, the serious money has already been shuffled safely away. There isn't all that much to devalue is there ? Now that Greece went to a gun fight with a water pistol, it's all moot.
I'm not a trained economist but isn't it obvious that our exports would grow dramatically as a result ? As for imports, we import too much anyway so having a weaker currency would just mean less "frivolous" spending and only buying essentials. The common consensus (how this was arrived at who knows, maybe throwing darts at a board), seems to be that a dpx would settle at about a 40% less than the Euro. Is this the end of the world ?
What Greece should have done is said we want to leave the Euro, but need to stage and manage it over say a 3 year period or something like that. As far as the media is concerned, you could make it palatable to Merkel to make it seems like it's Greece's fault, which is all she cares about. In fact it would be an early Xmas present for her since a lot of her voters would love a Grexit.
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Well aek66, if it's that cut and dried ie. we are too afraid to leave the Euro, at what point do we begin to think that maybe going to the dpx was the better alternative ? After 10 years of 25% unemployment, 15 years, 20 years ? Never ? Is there a cut off ?
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Right now, I'd love to see all their *************. I'll cool down soon ... I think.
Moderator: I know you don't mean it literally but it in these times we shouldn't make statements that can be misconstrued as threats.
You would have been better off deleting the entire post. It looks like I cursed with all the ********** in there now, but in fact I didn't. And there was no threat in there!
Having said that the comment was 100% out of line.
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Of course there'll be a 4th, the debt is un payable(regardless of any poxy 'reforms') and the goal is to loot all of Greece's revenue generating assets and turn the people into serfs. The fact Tsiparas has no desire to exit meant the EU held all the aces in the negotiations, the last thing they'll do is let Greece leave and miss out on their looting frenzy. The US certainly doesn't want Greece to exit either in case it has more influence from Moscow, did Tsiparas bottle it or did they let him know any exit might result in friendly neighbours being given the green light to annex a little land, either way Greece is being carved up amongst private creditors.
I've often wondered if threats of "turning a blind eye to Turkish aggression" have been casually offered. But, it's only speculation. Who can say really. Maybe that's why Tsipras pushed Varoufakis to the side. Varoufakis is not the type to take threats lightly and is more than happy to tell the media some of what is told behind closed doors.
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I think its been shown that the 4-2-3-1 doesn't suit us. At least not with our combination of CB's and DM. Just too weak and we concede so easily. Let's see how Tudor lines them up ...
Next Day for Greece
in Let's talk about this
Posted
Well. Don't really know what to say. You come out punching once again. The Junta! The Junta!
You know what. I'll allow the "teachers" to "teach" the kids on one condition. You design the syllabus. I would love to see its contents.
And then we wonder why Greece is broken.
And yes, so so so so many people will wake up today and think "you know what, I never realised before ... but ... that Papandreou guy, he ruined the country". It will be a religious moment also. Getting tingly just thinking about it.
*Sigh*
In breaking news, Greek PM shows courage ... and then realises it was only a dream.