Olympiakos-Aek

[DUDE]

I don't think I understand what you are implying.

"Intimidation" must be done under legal conditions. By throwing objects to players, using firecrackers and delaying the returning of the ball to the pitch we can only achieve a nice penalty from Uefa. Do you endorse this practice or not?

Let me tell you something about ball boys. I played for Arsenal and Crystal Palace youth and in case you dont know the youth players in England act as ball boys. They used to tell us, if our team is winning and we're in the second half dont rush too much to give the ball back! So dont think it doesnt happen everywhere. We were even told to throw the ball too wide from the player so he has top go and get!!! :LOL: Its called technical manipulation, its a method of breaking up the opponents rhythm! Feigning injury is also included in this. As for the firecrackers, 100% i condone the practise! Its yet another intimidating facet for the opponent. Throwing objects to players and opposing fans I dont condone because it gives us a a bad name. And I def dont like to see it in the Greek league but in Europe an intimidating atmosphere can help! For example, I dont like to see diving either, but everyone does it so to an extent I condone it, if Castillo dives against Shakter to win a penalty I won't be complaining, so call it hypocritical, call it realistic, call it Machiavellian, call it what you like they are my views on the topic!

The fact is, only Thyra 7 is hardcore at Olympiakos nowdays and even certain quarters of them aren't as good as they used to be. Its like theres a family atmosphere surrounding Greek football now, and thats all well and good domestically but come the game against Roma at home, I dont want to see a dude applauding the opponent with the occassional shout of "OLYM-PI-AKOS" in the stadium, i want to see the Roma players walk into the stadium and look at the kerkida and have a look of astonishment on their face! I want them to say to themselves 'WOW! I've never seen anything like this before!'

Here's an example of what I'm saying...

The fans at the back are excellent but look at some of the others... look at the man in the white jacket at the front chatting to the woman for example, wtf is that??? If I go to a match and you give me a choice of standing next to someone who will give every ounce of energy with every chant but he will also set off a fircracker or throw a lighter/coin at the player taking the corner, or instead standing next to the dude chatting to the woman, I know who i'd pick!

[dipapa]

ethnikisti, by saying that you prefer violence and barbaric actions (that make us a ridicule in the europe) over an inactive crowd, won't let us make serious progress in football. However, I understand that your youth is speaking, you 'll probably change your mind later.

Players and ballboys aren't saints (but i'd like them to be) of course. But there are limits for unfair play and those were clearly exceeded on Saturday. This is football, not a scene from Mad Max 3, right?

Besides, you may realize that one of the factors that kill Olympiakos in away CL games is the excessive dependency on stadium atmosphere. We should depend less on it.

[CH-Thrylos]

Besides, you may realize that one of the factors that kill Olympiakos in away CL games is the excessive dependency on stadium atmosphere. We should depend less on it.

we shouldn't have to depend on it at all. our team should be experienced enough to be able to get the result on the international level. but they aren't performing like that. i mean what kind of trust must a fan have in his team when the only thing after the 80th minute while playing good the rest of the match is "tora tha fame goal, tora tha fame goal"?! <_< :angry: :(

[bar7]

there are ways to do things with class....

so far you've done things in a$$.... classless is what you want...there is a reason you wear the Turkish flag colors on your shirt....continue your class re mappa & you'll end up in a 3rd world country

[aekrossoponti]

b]Let me tell you something about ball boys.

[CH-Thrylos]

there are ways to do things with class....

so far you've done things in a$$.... classless is what you want...there is a reason you wear the Turkish flag colors on your shirt....continue your class re mappa & you'll end up in a 3rd world country

i assume you are refering to ethnikistis' comments. don't start with these red-whit=turkish nonsense again. so far it has been a quiet discussion about the match and i don't want things to heat up because of flowery provocative language of some members.

maybe we should start playing the game though for change.

...

lets stick to basics and win the games on the pitch please. we should think about the lack of greek talent and the lack of tactics and good coaching in greek football but not the amount of coins thrown, etc...

:nw: you're absolutely right. object throwing, etc, the stuff we see nearly every weekend in greece have to stop.

it doesn't matter who did it, especially the accusations we see after every incident in here are useless too. because every now and then they are repeated because some fans caused trouble again. there is no team in greece that has well behaving fans. so stop the hypocrisy about "oh my god, your fans were so bad" bla bla. because the next week it could be your fellow supporters that do the same things. this has to stop in general.

[dipapa]

i assume you are refering to ethnikistis' comments. don't start with these red-whit=turkish nonsense again. so far it has been a quiet discussion about the match and i don't want things to heat up because of flowery provocative language of some members.

CH, I know that any village must have its own idiot but I think sometimes it's good to see a deletion of inflammatory posts (as Evergreen does in Pao forum) or even a temporary ban. This member has posted many racist insults about Albanians, Africans and Turks. Sometimes I feel ashamed for my interest in football because there are so many bullies like him amongst football fans.

[nightsurfer]

Kai ti thelis re file na ta masame kai na imaste mounga ?

Afto thelis diladi ?

  Esy to match to eides xtes ?

To eida olokliro kai nai h diaithsia htan xalia kai h Aek aksize to "x" alla den katalabaineis oti h klapsa sou me th diaithsia exei ginei pia bareth?

San opado ths Aek, na se problhmatizei to xali twn epi8etikwn sou pou den mporoun na sprwksoun ti mpalla sta dixtya kai h adynamia sas na kanete mia sentra ths prokopis. Ayta an eixate 8a nikousate akomi ki an sas erixnan xeirobombides sta korner.

H ftwxia tou ellhnikou podosfairou exei to analogo ths kai sth nootropia twn opadwn. Kyttwntas to dentro xanoun to dasos...

Se parakalo ...kane Copy pou eklapsa...

[DUDE]

ethnikisti, by saying that you prefer violence and barbaric actions (that make us a ridicule in the europe) over an inactive crowd, won't let us make serious progress in football. However, I understand that your youth is speaking, you 'll probably change your mind later.

Players and ballboys aren't saints (but i'd like them to be) of course. But there are limits for unfair play and those were clearly exceeded on Saturday. This is football, not a scene from Mad Max 3, right?

Besides, you may realize that one of the factors that kill Olympiakos in away CL games is the excessive dependency on stadium atmosphere. We should depend less on it.

Ok firstly, I didnt condone violence! Even in the Premiership lighters are thrown at corners, and I dont condone that, but its hardly classed as violence! Violence is rioting, the showing of objects at away fans, attacking the team bus, etc. As for the game on Saturday I didnt see it and Aekrossoponti says that ball boys threw balls on when AEK were attacking, not only is that unacceptable, its ridiculous and makes a mockery of the game! I'm not talking about making the game a bourdelo! But if you think that an intimidating atmosphere is embarrassing in Europe I suggest you watch the Italian, Belgian, Dutch, German, and even Spanish league! There are no monkey chants in Greece like there are in these leagues, they throw coins and flares onto the pitch. Last year Inter fans threw a ###### scooter from the stand! But they're not embarassing, yet the good old fashioned Greek atmosphere is comparable to Mad Max 3 as you say? Get over your ethnic complex file.

[DUDE]

I never said its ok to throw objects on the pitch in European games, I am merely saying that I wouldnt cry about it if it happened! You guys want us to have a Premiership atmosphere, I'd cry if we ever get like that!

second do you believe top teams are intimidated by an atmosphere like that. if aek had any class they would have crashed olympiakos. no matter what came on the ground and how many flares. if a player gets hit in cl by a flare etc., olympiakos would lose the game at the round table. simple as that.

Yes I do believe that top teams are intimidated, and I'll tell you why! Growing up I was neighbours with Joe Cole (his little brother Nicky and first cousin Charlie were good friends of mine), he always used to say how he hated playing away at Liverpool because of the atmosphere thet create, he said it makes the players nervous and harder to communicate. AND THAT'S ANFIELD! We make more noise than them at the theatre! Also Arsenal's Ashley Cole is my cousin's friend. And once we had a 2 hour convo about football, we chatted about everything you can imagine! lol, for example he said the best player he's ever played against is Del Piero! :) But anyway, Cole use to say that the atmosphere in Italy, Greece, and Slovakia were so amazing that they were tough places to play, and it made a huge difference. So you speak to any footballer and they'll tell you what a diff an intimidating atmosphere makes.

newcastle was so intimidated in karaiskaki that they won 3-1..same goes for maccabi haifa who were so intimidated that they merely clinchedthe draw in rizoupoli. or juve being so intimidated and winning in rizoupoli.

:LOL: Yeah, and Olympiakos were playing with 9 men and still dominating possession and general play! Not to mention that one of their goals was a penalty, the other a free-kick, and finally a counter attack when Olympiakos had 9 men on the pitch! Says it all really!

[TRIFILARA]

there are ways to do things with class....

so far you've done things in a$$.... classless is what you want...there is a reason you wear the Turkish flag colors on your shirt....continue your class re mappa & you'll end up in a 3rd world country

:LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

[Peiraias71]

This was a terrible game. I would say AEK deserved the win but I cant. Oly played with 10 in the second half and AEK didnt take advantage. What they did deserve though was one goal. The refs were terrible both ways. I remember a couple of corners not called for both teams in the first half. Aek wasnt given a corner on a shot that Nikopolidis deflected wide of the goal. The offside call on that AEK goal was bull. Our dummies tried to pull the offside trap and got caught. Simple as that. The game should of ended in a tie. I know one thing we sure didnt miss Mr Djorjevic. Kind of makes you wonder what kind of contribution he is bringing to the team. I think its time for him to hang up his shoes. Hes been having a steady decline for 3 years now. One can also plainly see that without Ribo we are nothing. We have no midfield. Okkas didnt do a thing. We missed Domi and Zewlakov, they can move the ball down the field. That makes a big difference. Fifa has to do something with that offside rule. They either have to eliminate the offside or use replay to make a determination. I have seen refs blow it on many occasions not just in the greek leagues. In the Oly-valencia game both teams got called offside at least 1 time when they werent. If your gonna have a law you need the proper method to enforce it. As I can plainly see 3 refs are not enough, so they either put some technology into it or just drop it all together. Does shakhtar have Elano on their team. If they do we are in for a very long night. if we play with the team we fielded against Aek were in big trouble. Were losing by at least 2.

[dipapa]

Se parakalo ...kane Copy pou eklapsa...

sta ka8omiloumena ellhnika, gkrinia kai synexh parapona = klapsa. Mh mou peis oti den kaneis to prwto apo thn arxh tou prwta8limatos!

[dipapa]

ethnikisti, I have watched at a lot of british games, since my childhood. I never ever noticed a british player being annoyed or injured by throwing objects (e.g. Pao's goalkeeper injured by stones thrown by "epistimones" in Karaiskaki, Luciano being injured on the face by cement block throwed during Aris-Osfp game).

BTW, I don't have any ethnic complex (either superiority or inferiority) because i'm not the one who includes the word "ethnic" in his alias :LOL:

[bar7]

there are ways to do things with class....

so far you've done things in a$$.... classless is what you want...there is a reason you wear the Turkish flag colors on your shirt....continue your class re mappa & you'll end up in a 3rd world country

i assume you are refering to ethnikistis' comments. don't start with these red-whit=turkish nonsense again. so far it has been a quiet discussion about the match and i don't want things to heat up because of flowery provocative language of some members.

you're right maybe my response to ethnikisi was a little harsh....

But i get so infuriated when i read posts about how to act like a bunch of inhumane monkies during a soccer match... & people support it

we have no one attending matches in Greece because of the violence, & this clown condones it??? :angry:

i have my retarded moments during matches, but to accept it is stupid

[DUDE]

ethnikisti, I have watched at a lot of british games, since my childhood. I never ever noticed a british player being annoyed or injured by throwing objects (e.g. Pao's goalkeeper injured by stones thrown by "epistimones" in Karaiskaki, Luciano being injured on the face by cement block throwed during Aris-Osfp game).

But thats plainly ridiculous! No right-minded person would condone that, thats just nuts! People who would throw a cement block or stones should be in jail, its simple as that! You're making out as if I'm condoning hooliganism, I AM NOT! I am merely saying that some of you constantly complain about the state of Greek football when other places are worse! You dont say Serie A is embarassing yet Inter fans threw a scooter off the top tier! A SCOOTER!! How did they get that into the stadium, let alone throw it at opposing fans! Just to make my position clear to you and Bar7, and anyone else who misunderstood me... you took exception to firecrackers... why? They dont harm anyone. I condone intimidation but not violence at matches. As long as no one gets hurt, and no ridiculous cheating is going on (i.e. throwing balls on the pitch when someone is attacking as you said), then I condone it.

For example, I went to the England vs Greece game and a few rows in front of me there was a group of guys with their hair dyed blue, at one point they stated chanting "Hellas, Gera, Gera, kai gama ta mounia!" And another Greek guy looked over at them and shook his head in disgust... WTF are you going to matches for if you dont want to here that??? Stay at home and watch it on TV!

Go to this link and fast forward it to 1 minute 40. Its a video of PAO at Leoforo against Olympiakos. Thyra 13 are burning banners... is that unacceptable? I want to know your view on it... because for me its fine. It creates a scary atmosphere to play in, it isnt against UEFA regulations, and no one is being hurt, hence its acceptable imo, how about yours?

[DUDE]

you're right maybe my response to ethnikisi was a little harsh....

But i get so infuriated when  i read posts about how to act like a bunch of inhumane monkies during a soccer match... & people support it

we have no one attending matches in Greece because of the violence, & this clown condones it??? :angry:

i have my retarded moments during matches, but to accept it is stupid

First off, dont call me a clown when its plainly obvious you havent read my posts. You wouldnt do it in real life so dont do it behind the safety of your computer screen. Second, I have said that my criteria for what is acceprable is:

1) It doesnt contradict UEFA regulations.

2) No one is hurt or put in harms way.

So where can violence fit in to that? The things I do condone are things like burning banners, setting off firecrackers, flares, and smoke bombs... SO WHAT if its aggressive? Thats the whole point! To make things as uncomfortable as possible for the opposition WITHOUT HARMING THEM!

Also, you claim that you have your retarded moments at games. <_< So either you're someone that sits in his chair and complains about the fan standing in front of him, and you go 'nuts' with the rare chant of 'PAO! PAO! PAO!' if so... you are an idiot! OR, and more likely from your wording, you have retarded moments but strongly dont accept them... :blink: That also makes you an idiot but also a hypocrit! Conclusion... you are an idiot!

[aekrossoponti]

Yes I do believe that top teams are intimidated, But anyway, Cole use to say that the atmosphere in Italy, Greece, and Slovakia were so amazing that they were tough places to play, and it made a huge difference. So you speak to any footballer and they'll tell you what a diff an intimidating atmosphere makes.

i have a different opinion. i dont believe that teams on top level are intimidated. but thats a matter of opinion. a great atmosphere can however add extra fuel to the home no doubt about it. but at the end of the day its the team on the pitch that makes the difference and our teams are very weak at the moment.

:LOL: Yeah, and Olympiakos were playing with 9 men and still dominating possession and general play! Not to mention that one of their goals was a penalty, the other a free-kick, and finally a counter attack when Olympiakos had 9 men on the pitch! Says it all really!

i bleive you saw the game. newcastle first goal was a def penalty. olympaikos scored by penalty as well. yes they had possession but did they have clear chances at any point?? let me tell you about teams in uefa or cl away games...a draw is a good result. newcastle got the result they wanted. case closed. juve did too, even maccabi haifa did, rosenborg did. and you talk about atmosphere. lets focus on playing football.

and second you want an intimidating atmosphere then ask your proedros kokkalis and your "hardcore" fans why they behave like nuns in european games as of late and why the let it all out in greek derbys. there was nothing thrown in the newcastle match for example...

[DUDE]

i bleive you saw the game. newcastle first goal was a def penalty. olympaikos scored by penalty as well. yes they had possession but did they have clear chances at any point?? let me tell you about teams in uefa or cl away games...a draw is a good result. newcastle got the result they wanted. case closed. juve did too, even maccabi haifa did, rosenborg did. and you talk about atmosphere. lets focus on playing football.

and second you want an intimidating atmosphere then ask your proedros kokkalis and your "hardcore" fans why they behave like nuns in european games as of late and why the let it all out in greek derbys. there was nothing thrown in the newcastle match for example...

File I did see the game and if you think that was a penalty then I'm shocked! Georgato barely touched Dyer! Even the British commentators said it was a poor decision, and not only did he give it but he sent off Georgato too! And prior to that he was our most dangerous player! Anyway, thats irrelevant, Newcastle were poor, they couldnt keep the ball, and at the end Shearer said he was delighted to have come away with the win in such a difficult place! So that suggests it plays a big role, if you remember Oly lost 4-0 away so that says alot.

[dipapa]

ethnikisti,

1. Firecrackers : they are dangerous, they can seriously injure even when they are not deliberately thrown to opponent's fans. Of course, flares are more dangerous (I remember the poor Larissa fan killed by Paok hooligans quite a few years ago) but accidents can happen with any of this "toys". And the smoke reduces player's visibility, that is unacceptable.

2. Name calling : I don't endorse it but I think it can happen since most people go to the stadiums in order to relieve themselves. I wouldn't stop someone from doing it.

3. Racist songs : they are lowering our human qualities, am I a fool for looking for humanism in football?

4. Throwing objects that can harm a player (mobile phones, stones) or prevent him from playing as he could (papers, plastic bottles) : I am totally against, this is what I call Mad Max atmosphere.

5. Burning banners: no I don't like it at all but this is not because I would be annoyed or feel insulted (I don't give a dime for banners and flags of any kind). It is because I know that other people would be deeply insulted and I respect their values and ideas.

[DUDE]

OK so thats where we differ in opinions, and I'd think the vast minority of Greek and indeed European fans would agree with you...

1. Firecrackers : they are dangerous, they can seriously injure even when they are not deliberately thrown to opponent's fans. Of course, flares are more dangerous (I remember the poor Larissa fan killed by Paok hooligans quite a few years ago) but accidents can happen with any of this "toys". And the smoke reduces player's visibility,  that is unacceptable.

I dont know about the example you're giving regarding the PAOK fans killing the Larisa fan with a flare but I'm guessing they threw it into the crowd? Well I dont condone that obviously, but to be against flares and firecrackers because of an isolated incident by retards that should be in jail is naive. People are killed in car accidents too, shall we ban them too? As for smoke reducing player visibility... <_< what are you 8 years old??? Or are you just intent on killing the Greek atmosphere?

2. Name calling : I don't endorse it but I think it can happen since most people go to the stadiums in order to relieve themselves. I wouldn't stop someone from doing it.

You don't endorse it??? :LOL: Do you applaud the opponent when they score too?

3. Racist songs : they are lowering our human qualities, am I a fool for looking for humanism in football?

:blink: Why would you even bring that into this conversation??? Who here had condoned racism??? I AM TOTALLY, 100%, AGAINST IT!!! If anything that doesnt happen in Greece, it does in Spain and Italy though, yet they aren't embarassing are they? (ethnic complex coming to the fore again). :whistle:

4. Throwing objects that can harm a player (mobile phones, stones) or prevent him from playing as he could (papers, plastic bottles) : I am totally against, this is what I call Mad Max atmosphere.

I too do not condone throwing harmful objects like mobiles and stones, but plastic bottles and paper cups... :hypocrite: If it makes it harder for the opponent, so be it!

5. Burning banners: no I don't like it at all but this is not because I would be annoyed or feel insulted (I don't give a dime for banners and flags of any kind). It is because I know that other people would be deeply insulted and I respect their values and ideas.

:LOL: :LOL: :LOL: I agree with you, in fact, we should all hold hands and sing peace-songs! :LOL:

[bar7]

you're right maybe my response to ethnikisi was a little harsh....

But i get so infuriated when

[DUDE]

i,ve done my share of kicking a$$ like yours in soccer matches when i was younger...

:LOL: And I thought you were a peace loving man that never condoned violence at football matches! :LOL: Maybe we should agree to disagree tough-guy before this gets out of hand... i believe in generating an intimidating atmosphere WITHOUT VIOLENCE, you dont, you prefer for everyone to hold hands and dance around singing kumbaya... lets leave it at that.

[bar7]

:LOL: And I thought you were a peace loving man that never condoned violence at football matches! :LOL: Maybe we should agree to disagree tough-guy before this gets out of hand... i believe in generating an intimidating atmosphere WITHOUT VIOLENCE, you dont, you prefer for everyone to hold hands and dance around singing kumbaya... lets leave it at that.

whatever dude, you called me out...

the next time you watch a game from a league which has progressed, show us burning banners!!!! ;)

[Montreal_Thrillos]

:LOL: And I thought you were a peace loving man that never condoned violence at football matches! :LOL: Maybe we should agree to disagree tough-guy before this gets out of hand... i believe in generating an intimidating atmosphere WITHOUT VIOLENCE, you dont, you prefer for everyone to hold hands and dance around singing kumbaya... lets leave it at that.

bar7 he got u here