pao still the best greek side

[Guest Protathlitis]

who cares who started it

aek gets called turks. my freind got called an albanian here in australia by a baoktzis

I wouldent chant voulgaroi in a stadium but you can understand it when they are people like this

BAOK DOESENT REPRESENT THE NORTH JUST LIKE BAOK CANT REPRESENT GREECE

[CH-Thrylos]

OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMG

OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMG

OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMG

OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMG

OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMG

what some small stats can cause.

i dont know what you are fighting about. things are so clear in this subject. pao did way better in europe than osfp during the last years. only this past season osfp advanced one more round compared to pao and got the ass kicked.

it is hard to admit, but except last season and 98/99 pao nearly always did better than osfp when they both played in the cl.

and what about this whole north-south crap. relax guys. remember dipapas signature: football is fun. teasing is acceptable but hate is disgusting.

[zachos]

The level of discussion in this topic reminds me of some other forums (that I do not want to be part of). I hope it will not continue..One 15 year old guy posts bad and many fall into the trap like similar teenagers... :whistle:

[adonis]

Adonis : Look what you started bine. I'd like to see the results of your DNA test before you call anyone a slav, OUST RE ! (all though paokaras was no better with cursing athens either, but theres a difference)

at what i started...bc wat Paokaras was doing was so nice of him to express his opinion in a cool calm and collected manner

i was giving him a taste of his own medicine....obviously i hit a nerve

u can have my DNA test results...im greek through and through

but in all seriousness...i dun understand this real bitter and sour rivalry between thessaloniki and athens

and anyways...why does everyone call them BAOK instead of PAOK

[NYC_Olympiakos]

1 Real Madrid Esp 28.481 35.902 27.115 21.723 18.104 131.326

2 Valencia Esp 33.481 18.902 27.115 29.723 14.104 123.326

3 AC Milan Ita 18.238 23.148 31.256 16.928 31.620 121.191

4 FC Barcelona Esp 24.481 27.902 31.115 16.723 17.104 117.326

5 Liverpool Eng 27.675 22.818 20.520 14.712 30.138 115.864

6 Manchester United Eng 22.675 28.818 26.520 15.712 17.138 110.864

7 Internazionale Ita 13.238 21.148 28.256 15.928 22.620 101.191

8 Bayern München Ger 33.650 27.455 6.017 10.555 19.488 97.166

9 Deportivo La Coruña Esp 24.481 21.902 19.115 21.723 9.104 96.326

10 Arsenal Eng 23.675 15.818 17.520 17.712 19.138 93.864

11 FC Porto Por 15.021 14.093 24.547 26.382 13.695 93.740

12 Juventus Ita 9.238 18.148 29.256 12.928 23.620 93.191

13 PSV Eindhoven Ned 16.007 17.355 8.035 17.787 24.960 84.144

14 Olympique Lyon Fra 16.135 12.351 10.612 18.455 23.771 81.325

15 Newcastle United Eng 4.675 3.818 15.520 24.712 27.138 75.864

16 AS Roma Ita 16.238 18.148 17.256 12.928 8.620 73.191

17 AC Parma Ita 14.238 15.148 10.256 9.928 22.620 72.191

18 Panathinaikos Gre 11.227 21.712 17.365 6.375 14.035 70.714

19 Lazio Roma Ita 17.238 9.148 23.256 7.928 11.620 69.191

20 Chelsea Eng 6.675 8.818 5.520 22.712 25.138 68.864

21 Bayer Leverkusen Ger 10.650 27.455 10.017 1.555 15.488 65.166

22 Celtic Sco 4.856 11.186 23.433 15.433 8.567 63.477

23 Feyenoord Ned 11.007 24.355 7.035 6.787 12.960 62.144

24 Villarreal Esp 5.481 4.902 5.115 20.723 22.104 58.326

25 VfB Stuttgart Ger 11.650 4.455 16.017 11.555 14.488 58.166

26 Celta de Vigo Esp 19.481 8.902 12.115 12.723 4.104 57.326

27 Borussia Dortmund Ger 3.650 25.455 18.017 6.555 3.488 57.166

28 Leeds United Eng 24.675 11.818 11.520 3.712 5.138 56.864

29 Girondins Bordeaux Fra 12.135 10.351 11.612 18.455 3.771 56.325

30 Sporting CP Lisbon Por 5.021 12.093 4.547 8.382 25.695 55.740

31 AS Monaco Fra 9.135 2.351 2.612 23.455 15.771 53.325

Paris Saint-Germain Fra 15.135 10.351 12.612 4.455 10.771 53.325

33 Ajax Ned 7.007 8.355 18.035 6.787 11.960 52.144

34 AJ Auxerre Fra 3.135 2.351 10.612 15.455 19.771 51.325

35 Galatasaray Tur 19.557 14.856 5.540 9.145 1.773 50.872

36 Club Brugge Bel 10.310 10.938 7.268 11.938 10.021 50.477

37 CD Alavés Esp 26.481 4.902 10.115 4.723 4.104 50.326

38 AEK Athens Gre 10.227 13.712 14.365 4.375 5.035 47.714

39 Anderlecht Bel 15.310 5.938 13.268 7.938 5.021 47.477

40 Olympiakos Piraeus Gre 10.227 8.712 6.365 5.375 16.035 46.714

41 Real Zaragoza Esp 7.481 9.902 5.115 4.723 19.104 46.326

42 Hertha BSC Ger 11.650 13.455 15.017 2.555 3.488 46.166

43 Boavista Por 7.021 14.093 18.547 3.382 2.695 45.740

44 Schalke '04 Ger 3.650 9.455 11.017 6.555 13.488 44.166

45 Sparta Praha Cze 4.980 14.815 8.046 10.433 4.948 43.223

46 Lille OSC Fra 3.135 14.351 2.612 4.455 16.771 41.325

These rankings are basically meaningless

it reminds me of the Fifa WC standings which is bullshit as well

Pao fans take these standings and shove it up your asses

cause thats how much of crap it is

do u get a freaking trophy for being in 18th position

i mean in the last few years u have done better domestically then in European play so don't talk

let me know when they give out silverware for this list

[Panathinaikos_Trifilli]

Theres no trophy, it just reminds everyone PAO is a better european team than Olympiakos will ever be. And it also means easier teams for us in the CL cos we work harder for it.

[Paokaras]

at what i started...bc wat Paokaras was doing was so nice of him to express his opinion in a cool calm and collected manner

i was giving him a taste of his own medicine....obviously i hit a nerve

u can have my DNA test results...im greek through and through

but in all seriousness...i dun understand this real bitter and sour rivalry between thessaloniki and athens

and anyways...why does everyone call them BAOK instead of PAOK

What Greek through and through....think about it buddy, you have no freakin clue!!!!!!!!!! You could be a Bulgarian, Turk or Albanian. So what the hell was your point of asking who PAOK was going to represent in Uefa (Bulgaria?)

Think about what you say before you open your big ass mouth!!! You answered your own question about the differences between Athen(south) and Saloniki (north), it's cause of people like you my Greek buddy, who like to say s%$#! that they have no F***in clue about!!!!!!!!!

[slick13]

why have u all ruined this topic!

especialy oly-fans(fanatics) and one paok fan!

this is true and uefa do count theese points when they seed teams ok.

stick to the topic

[Paokaras]

why have u all ruined this topic!

especialy oly-fans(fanatics) and one paok fan!

this is true and uefa do count theese points when they seed teams ok.

stick to the topic

Do you (Pao fans) realize this topic was only started cause you guy's lost!!!! I am pretty sure this topic would have never started if you guy's actually won it.

:nono: :nono: :nono:

Don't worry I guess you will realize it when you meet the rest in Uefa after the first 2 matches. ;)

[slick13]

why have u all ruined this topic!

especialy oly-fans(fanatics) and one paok fan!

this is true and uefa do count theese points when they seed teams ok.

stick to the topic

Do you (Pao fans) realize this topic was only started cause you guy's lost!!!! I am pretty sure this topic would have never started if you guy's actually won it.

:nono: :nono: :nono:

Don't worry I guess you will realize it when you meet the rest in Uefa after the first 2 matches. ;)

i am posting it for pao fans to enjoy!

if u dont like it u can read and post elsewhere.

i am just posting some facts nothing more than some good info for especialy pao fans.

[NYC_Olympiakos]

why have u all ruined this topic!

especialy oly-fans(fanatics) and one paok fan!

this is true and uefa do count theese points when they seed teams ok.

stick to the topic

Do you (Pao fans) realize this topic was only started cause you guy's lost!!!! I am pretty sure this topic would have never started if you guy's actually won it.

:nono: :nono: :nono:

Don't worry I guess you will realize it when you meet the rest in Uefa after the first 2 matches. ;)

i am posting it for pao fans to enjoy!

if u dont like it u can read and post elsewhere.

i am just posting some facts nothing more than some good info for especialy pao fans.

so Pao's consolation is these ###### standings

who are u kidding here

this is so childish

Olympiakos and PAO play in two competitions together and Olympiakos beat them out of both of them

how can u say Pao is better

bullshit i tell u

[Montreal_Thrillos]

the last 5 years they have been better in euroep we will give them that

but we won the double.. we went further in europe then them so technically we were the better team this year

not by much though!

overall greece.. hey we are better yup

and oly 11 says it all

[HOLLYWOOD]

Look, lets face it, this year oly were better then us in all areas (europe just, League just and cup easy)

congrats to them for THIS YEAR!!

[adonis]

QUOTE (adonis @ May 30 2005, 07:43 PM)

at what i started...bc wat Paokaras was doing was so nice of him to express his opinion in a cool calm and collected manner

i was giving him a taste of his own medicine....obviously i hit a nerve

u can have my DNA test results...im greek through and through

but in all seriousness...i dun understand this real bitter and sour rivalry between thessaloniki and athens

and anyways...why does everyone call them BAOK instead of PAOK 

What Greek through and through....think about it buddy, you have no freakin clue!!!!!!!!!! You could be a Bulgarian, Turk or Albanian. So what the hell was your point of asking who PAOK was going to represent in Uefa (Bulgaria?)

Think about what you say before you open your big ass mouth!!! You answered your own question about the differences between Athen(south) and Saloniki (north), it's cause of people like you my Greek buddy, who like to say s%$#! that they have no F***in clue about!!!!!!!!!

[choc13]

once again paoktzi,,,can i ask u ,

does paok pay ur bills????????????????????????????????

[slick13]

why have u all ruined this topic!

especialy oly-fans(fanatics) and one paok fan!

this is true and uefa do count theese points when they seed teams ok.

stick to the topic

Do you (Pao fans) realize this topic was only started cause you guy's lost!!!! I am pretty sure this topic would have never started if you guy's actually won it.

:nono: :nono: :nono:

Don't worry I guess you will realize it when you meet the rest in Uefa after the first 2 matches. ;)

i am posting it for pao fans to enjoy!

if u dont like it u can read and post elsewhere.

i am just posting some facts nothing more than some good info for especialy pao fans.

so Pao's consolation is these ###### standings

who are u kidding here

this is so childish

Olympiakos and PAO play in two competitions together and Olympiakos beat them out of both of them

how can u say Pao is better

bullshit i tell u

stop posting in this thread if u dont like the thruth!

simple as that.

go and worry about not haveing a coach next season

[Panathinaikos_Trifilli]

Look everyone heres the lowdown and conclusion:

1) Panathinaikos has always been a better european side cos basically europe cant be bought

2) OSPF has been better than PAO in the league.

OSPF is a better greek side, PAO is a better european side, there two different things, one team is not better than the other. OSPF keep conquering Greece, while we'll try and conquer the world.

[NYC_Olympiakos]

why have u all ruined this topic!

especialy oly-fans(fanatics) and one paok fan!

this is true and uefa do count theese points when they seed teams ok.

stick to the topic

Do you (Pao fans) realize this topic was only started cause you guy's lost!!!! I am pretty sure this topic would have never started if you guy's actually won it.

:nono: :nono: :nono:

Don't worry I guess you will realize it when you meet the rest in Uefa after the first 2 matches. ;)

i am posting it for pao fans to enjoy!

if u dont like it u can read and post elsewhere.

i am just posting some facts nothing more than some good info for especialy pao fans.

so Pao's consolation is these ###### standings

who are u kidding here

this is so childish

Olympiakos and PAO play in two competitions together and Olympiakos beat them out of both of them

how can u say Pao is better

bullshit i tell u

stop posting in this thread if u dont like the thruth!

simple as that.

go and worry about not haveing a coach next season

i can post any time and anywhere i want

fact is this is a lie

Olympiakos the best Greek side ever !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Crazy]

Look everyone heres the lowdown and conclusion:

1) Panathinaikos has always been a better european side cos basically europe cant be bought

2) OSPF has been better than PAO in the league.

OSPF is a better greek side, PAO is a better european side, there two different things, one team is not better than the other. OSPF keep conquering Greece, while we'll try and conquer the world.

even that i didn t want to wright anything because of the stupid remarks about north and south i could not again tolerate stupid remarks.osfp wins because osfp has more money while vardinogiannis is starving?did pao won any titles in europe?conquer the world?you can win the ###### title when ahead and 2 games remaining and you want the world?if CL was like back in the days (only champions no 2 or 3)you guys would end up playing friendlys every wednesday with ofi and marko.osfp has the best team tha last 9 years.finito la musika.enjoy the statistics from uefa.

[Grigoris]

This argument is going to be moot in about 5 years when AEK leaves the rest of the Greek league behind. No other big team in Greece right now is showing the vision that Demis has for AEK. This year for AEK was just about survival - yet they finished third (and had a mathematical shot at the championship up until the final day).

Not only that, AEK managed to average 27,000 fans per home game . . . all at a borrowed stadium. He encouragd families to attend the games. He stood up to the fan groups (unlike OLY and PAO) and made a successful push to eliminate violence. Let's face it -- the OLY-Panionios and Aris-Iraklis incidents were an embarrassment. And if PAO fans get a laugh out of that, getting banned for the last two games EVER at Leoforos, and possibly costing your team the title, all during a game that you WON AND had no away supporters in attendance, is also an embarrassment.

Moreover, he has brought in a coach with a proven pedigree . . . and stood by him the entire season. Baevic had no support at OLY - DESPITE just winning the double. And now he may be leaving Greece for good. And how many coaches did PAO have this year? (I'm actually surprised that PAO did not dump Malesani after losing out on the title, based on their track record.) If Santos were at PAO or OLY, he would have been fired after losing to Ionikos 1-0 late in the season like he did. Instead, Demis supported him AND the team 100%. In fact, despite losing out on the title AND the Champions League by losing to Ionikos, AEK's last game against Kalamaria was a huge crowd and a celebration of all the team achieved this year.

As far as the team itself goes, AEK undoubtedly lost some big names in the past offseason. However, wtha mixture of loaned players, young talent, other team's rejects, "second tier" players and Katsouranis, they performed well above expectations by playing as a unit and believing in each other and the coach. Support from within the organization apparently has a positive impact on team moral and performance. There is no denying that there was dissension in the team for both OLY and PAO this year, and the main blame lies with the ownership. AEK has made some good, if not spectacular, signings recently and is making a concerted effort to strengthen its youth development as well.

Finally, and I know I am leaving a lot out, but AEK, like PAO (and like OLY already has with Karaskaiki), is making plans on a new stadium. A lot has been said about not building a large stadium (I believe Demis wants a 45,000 seat stadium). However, the current AEK vision is to be a BIG team, both in Greece AND in Europe. AEK has already shown this year that it can attract fan support. If it wasn't for Karaskaiki, AEK would have likely outdrew PAO and OLY COMBINED. With a good infrastructure, quality football, players who do not put themselves above the team or the coach, a family atmosphere, no fan violence, a positive relationship with the fan clubs, Demis knows he can fill a 45,000 seat stadium for all AEK games, both Greek and European. The bottom line in this regard is that Demis has shown that he cares about the good of the TEAM and about the team's fans, players and coach. In turn, each has done their part to make AEK a better team. They are likely the team of the future as far as Greek teams go.

On a short side note, isn't AEK the only Greek team to have qualified for the quarter-finals of the European Cup, the Cup Winners Cup and the UEFA Cup? If so, does that make them the best Greek team in Europe or at least the best team in Greece.

More fuel for the fire.

[Xristos_Kwstis_OEOE]

Pesta re Grigori! :nw:

[XXX-18T]

On a short side note, isn't AEK the only Greek team to have qualified for the quarter-finals of the European Cup, the Cup Winners Cup and the UEFA Cup? If so, does that make them the best Greek team in Europe or at least the best team in Greece.

More fuel for the fire.

pao's done it as well ;)

[zachos]

This argument is going to be moot in about 5 years when AEK leaves the rest of the Greek league behind. No other big team in Greece right now is showing the vision that Demis has for AEK. This year for AEK was just about survival - yet they finished third (and had a mathematical shot at the championship up until the final day).

Not only that, AEK managed to average 27,000 fans per home game . . . all at a borrowed stadium. He encouragd families to attend the games. He stood up to the fan groups (unlike OLY and PAO) and made a successful push to eliminate violence. Let's face it -- the OLY-Panionios and Aris-Iraklis incidents were an embarrassment. And if PAO fans get a laugh out of that, getting banned for the last two games EVER at Leoforos, and possibly costing your team the title, all during a game that you WON AND had no away supporters in attendance, is also an embarrassment.

Moreover, he has brought in a coach with a proven pedigree . . . and stood by him the entire season. Baevic had no support at OLY - DESPITE just winning the double. And now he may be leaving Greece for good. And how many coaches did PAO have this year? (I'm actually surprised that PAO did not dump Malesani after losing out on the title, based on their track record.) If Santos were at PAO or OLY, he would have been fired after losing to Ionikos 1-0 late in the season like he did. Instead, Demis supported him AND the team 100%. In fact, despite losing out on the title AND the Champions League by losing to Ionikos, AEK's last game against Kalamaria was a huge crowd and a celebration of all the team achieved this year.

As far as the team itself goes, AEK undoubtedly lost some big names in the past offseason. However, wtha mixture of loaned players, young talent, other team's rejects, "second tier" players and Katsouranis, they performed well above expectations by playing as a unit and believing in each other and the coach. Support from within the organization apparently has a positive impact on team moral and performance. There is no denying that there was dissension in the team for both OLY and PAO this year, and the main blame lies with the ownership. AEK has made some good, if not spectacular, signings recently and is making a concerted effort to strengthen its youth development as well.

Finally, and I know I am leaving a lot out, but AEK, like PAO (and like OLY already has with Karaskaiki), is making plans on a new stadium. A lot has been said about not building a large stadium (I believe Demis wants a 45,000 seat stadium). However, the current AEK vision is to be a BIG team, both in Greece AND in Europe. AEK has already shown this year that it can attract fan support. If it wasn't for Karaskaiki, AEK would have likely outdrew PAO and OLY COMBINED. With a good infrastructure, quality football, players who do not put themselves above the team or the coach, a family atmosphere, no fan violence, a positive relationship with the fan clubs, Demis knows he can fill a 45,000 seat stadium for all AEK games, both Greek and European. The bottom line in this regard is that Demis has shown that he cares about the good of the TEAM and about the team's fans, players and coach. In turn, each has done their part to make AEK a better team. They are likely the team of the future as far as Greek teams go.

On a short side note, isn't AEK the only Greek team to have qualified for the quarter-finals of the European Cup, the Cup Winners Cup and the UEFA Cup? If so, does that make them the best Greek team in Europe or at least the best team in Greece.

More fuel for the fire.

Under the same reasoning, Barcelona is better that Real or Milan because they have won all trophies. It is just a small detail that these cups do not have the same difficulty. AEK is surelly the only other greek team to have done something, like PAO, in Europe, that is true. In which yaer did AEK go to the 8 of the champion's cup?

[almamatter]

Dear Grigoris

I t is true that Aek has done better than any other team in the Cups winner European competition but that doesn't mean that they have done better than Pao.

Pao has done so much more in the Chapions League than Aek, that Aek will need a lot of years to reach Pao status in Europe.

- Aek has never won a Chapions league game as yet. Pao not only has won many games, but we have won games away from home against teams like: 1996 Ajax that had 3 years to loose at home in the semifinals. Some teams I remember on away winns are Ajax, Porto, Salche, Hannover, Rangers.

-Aek was on dept over 185 million Euro. If Pao could have been given free to spend this amount of money we would have had probably gotten the best players to win for us the Chapions League.

-^Aek should be in division 4 as we speak^

-Aek is getting players that don't fit to Pao's future needs like Sapanis, Alexopoulos, Lyberopoulos.

-Did you get a chance to see what kind of players you buy? I don't know how good they are going to be for you but I remember last year in the Eufa cup you did quite amazing collcting 0 points from teams like Armenia something... of Germany's 2nd division (0-2) in Oaka.

-The bottom line is this. I am aware of the Greek mentality and that is WE ALL GO WERE THERE IS PROSPECT FOR SOMETHING GOOD.

ex1: Nobody cared about the National team until they started doing good under OTTO.

ex2:In Greece that is when Osfp sucked for almost 10 years nobody was waching soccer. Everybody was a basketball fun because Greece had won the Eurobasket in 1988 and for not until Osfp made a comeback in 1997 everybody was a basketball freak. Now almost nobody really cares about greek basketball.

ex3:Pao funs were thrilled to come back to Leoforo in 2000. After a few years nobady goes to see the team anymore.

ex4:Kokalis was lucky to find a player like Rivaldo right at the end of the summer transfer season because the Osfp funs were already returning back the season tickets. Imagine that that was the first year in their new stadium and without Rivaldo it would be half empty!

ex5: Aek was playing in Oaka the first leg against Osfp for the cup semi this year. where were your funs ? Was that it ? When do you expect to fill up most of the Oaka???

We Greeks get feed up easily. If Aek does bad again you will see that the 27000 will cut in half and who knows who will go to see you guys if you have a similar year after the next season is done and you end up 3rd again....

[Grigoris]

The comment about AEK being the best team in Greece because of thier European record was made "tongue in cheek." I made the post simply because I found that AEK's approach to the season, amidst all the turmoil they were going through, was refreshing. This year was marred (yet again) by fan violence, bickering between club owners, and internal team dissension -- with PAO and OLY in the center as usual. And the lack of support these two administrations show for their coaching staff is absurd. Baevic pulls off the double yet is forced out by Gate 7 and Rivaldo. PAO has three coaching changes during the course of the season. Isn't anyone getting tired of this nonsense? This is the first time in a long while, if not ever, that a big team in Greece said - "to hell with the championship, to hell with Europe, to hell with the cup, we need to focus on our future" - and they did it.

By the way, I am not an AEK fan per se, so this is not biased ranting and raving. Rather, it is my simple view with respect to AEK's new approach. Hopefully other teams will follow this approach. It just might improve our league overall.

As far as European records go, I did some quick research at uefa.com, and this is what I found regarding Greek teams in Europe (based on a minimum of a quarter-final appearance:

UEFA Cup (1971 - present)

AEK (1976-77) - semi final

PAO (1987-88) - quarter final

PAO (2002-03) - quarter final

Cupwinners Cup (1960-1999)

PAOK (1973-74) - quarter final

Olympiakos (1992-93) - quarter final

AEK (1996-97) - quarter final

AEK (1997 - 1998) - quarter final

European Cup/Champions League (1955 - present)

AEK (1968-69) - quarter final

PAO (1970-71) - final

PAO (1984-85) - semi final

PAO (1995-96) - semi final

OLY (1998-99) - quarter final

PAO (2001-02) - quarter final