Punishment from violence on the weekend

[drakos13]

you are absolutley right. if it werent for those 3 poitns, we wouldnt be top. BUT YOU FORGET THAT YOU DESERVED THAT PUNISHMENT FOR DISGRACING THE WHOLE COUNTRY. and its not happening again. If it was another small fine and match ban, do you seriously think that would never happen again? everyone knows thats bullshit. its proven it doesnt do anythin.

come on, man be realistic. Are you telling me that doesnt have to stop? Did you see the images and video? I heard that most of the bad s%$#! wasnt even on video! If they arent going to be serious about punishments, HOW EXACTLY do you think you can stop this. If it were any team in greece the punishment would be the same. blame your idiot friends, NOT the punishment, there is nothing in the world to justify what OSFP fans did. So dont complain, you may have had a better season, but the SUPPORTERS ruined 3 points. If thats not a serious message to REAL FANS to stop, WHAT IS?

This crap is exactly the reason you are the most hated team in Greece.

[pao123]

everyone needs to rememeber that professional football i more then just what happends on the field...the fans hae an effect and ufortunalety, so do ppl behind the scenes...

[dipapa]

This crap is exactly the reason you are the most hated team in Greece.

The fact that you and your fellows hate OSFP doesn't make it "most hated team in Greece". At least you could say "the most hated by PAO fans and Kokali-haters team in Greece".

And one could easily tell the same for PAO, from an OSFP fan point of view. But let's not not induce hatred in sports, it wouldn't help in reducing violence at all (yeah I know you will disagree on this).

[NYC_Olympiakos]

i mean we better at least get the 3 points back that we earned on monday

hopefully get back maybe the lost game to v Paninios but i doubt that

but also get the 4 match game ban to maybe 2

but the 1 million euro fine can stand

but get back lost points and games at kariaskaki

remember this game was held in paninios

[Guest Protathlitis]

most hated team in Greece?

we are 48% so therefore pao is the most hated by sheer numbers.

If your saying that apart from Osfp fans we are the most hated; who gives a fuk thats because of 7 titles. We dont want cosy relations with anyone.

I think what some OSFP fans do is a disgrace just like what some vazeloi do is a disgrace. I wouldent be complaining if pao was punished aswell. Its 6 points and 2,000,000 euros for fuk sake youd complain more than we have.

I'll say what I think my previous posts have proven:

A HOOLIGAN IS A HOOLIGAN: the end result is the same, crimes commited by reds, greens and yellows

[CH-Thrylos]

So dont complain, you may have had a better season, but the SUPPORTERS ruined 3 points. If thats not a serious message to REAL FANS to stop, WHAT IS?

This crap is exactly the reason you are the most hated team in Greece.

so what? let us complain as much as we want to. its not like we write all this stuff in the pao forum. do you want to forbid us in stating our oppinions in our forum too? you are completely forgetting the freedom of expression. ;)

it is naturally that after seven years of winning the championship that there are not many people who like osfp. it is the same in germany with bayern, in england with manu.

and i wonder. i asked a question once in here, about how the pao fans would react if they would be in our position. i still havent got an answer. :hypocrite:

i said it before and i say it again: the decision had to be taken. there has to be done something about the hooligans in greece. but this decision doesnt have to mean thing will change.

i'd have liked to see something like this: osfp has to take measurments against the people that were involved in the fights in nea smyrni. they have to identyfie these people and get them into court. furthermore osfp has to take care that things ike these wont happen again but if it would happen again, they should take care of them again. and as long as nothing is done the points deducted will remain. as soon as some achievements are made the three points should be given back.

[bar7]

re gavri maybe we should forget that this eveb happened & let things go???

What r u nuts???

[Montreal_Thrillos]

re gavri maybe we should forget that this eveb happened & let things go???

What r u nuts???

when we get back the 3 points then we will forget it !

[drakos13]

re gavri maybe we should forget that this eveb happened & let things go???

What r u nuts???

when we get back the 3 points then we will forget it !

SO WHAT IS THE PUNISHMENT THEN?

A FA is trying to DESPERATLEY to come down hard once and for all on the bullshit that hurts Greece and our football. What punishment do you recommend???? Your fans were a complete disgrace to greece, tearing apart a stadium and our glorious athletic image of 2004. Leave it to OSFP to tear apart Greek pride, in the Olympics, Ethniki matches, and now on the field. Well done. You deserve another slap on the wrist, and government funded ground. Saying u think this punishment is unfair- is it fair for a pappou and his grandkid to get attacked? the Panionios fans who werent even hooligans just regular ticket holders??? OSFP didnt have the balls to stepinto the Panthers cage. and now they dont have the balls to take the punishment. That punishment was mild. Maybe instead of bitching you should LEARN and never let it happen again. That is what a punishment does. Does a fine really affect fanatic supporters???NO. A match ban??? a little, obviously not enough. When a team loses points, they are going to think twice. This isnt an opinion its a plain fact.

This is why you are the most hated club in greece.

[Montreal_Thrillos]

re gavri maybe we should forget that this eveb happened & let things go???

What r u nuts???

when we get back the 3 points then we will forget it !

SO WHAT IS THE PUNISHMENT THEN?

A FA is trying to DESPERATLEY to come down hard once and for all on the bullshit that hurts Greece and our football. What punishment do you recommend???? Your fans were a complete disgrace to greece, tearing apart a stadium and our glorious athletic image of 2004. Leave it to OSFP to tear apart Greek pride, in the Olympics, Ethniki matches, and now on the field. Well done. You deserve another slap on the wrist, and government funded ground. Saying u think this punishment is unfair- is it fair for a pappou and his grandkid to get attacked? the Panionios fans who werent even hooligans just regular ticket holders??? OSFP didnt have the balls to stepinto the Panthers cage. and now they dont have the balls to take the punishment. That punishment was mild. Maybe instead of bitching you should LEARN and never let it happen again. That is what a punishment does. Does a fine really affect fanatic supporters???NO. A match ban??? a little, obviously not enough. When a team loses points, they are going to think twice. This isnt an opinion its a plain fact.

This is why you are the most hated club in greece.

buddy the 3 points were earned in anoither game

had we played panionio and actually won then they took the 3 points back then I can understand but these points were already earned

the rest of the punishment i agree

but im telling u guys right now if u win the title by 3 poinnts or less u won it in the courtroom not the field.

tora u want to believe otherwise go ahead.

we may be the most hated club in greece because of our greek domination.

kinda like the yankees.. manu. real. they dominate their domestic countries

at least we are not the biggest crybabies iin greece liike u guys

[Montreal_Thrillos]

re gavri maybe we should forget that this eveb happened & let things go???

What r u nuts???

when we get back the 3 points then we will forget it !

SO WHAT IS THE PUNISHMENT THEN?

A FA is trying to DESPERATLEY to come down hard once and for all on the bullshit that hurts Greece and our football. What punishment do you recommend???? Your fans were a complete disgrace to greece, tearing apart a stadium and our glorious athletic image of 2004. Leave it to OSFP to tear apart Greek pride, in the Olympics, Ethniki matches, and now on the field. Well done. You deserve another slap on the wrist, and government funded ground. Saying u think this punishment is unfair- is it fair for a pappou and his grandkid to get attacked? the Panionios fans who werent even hooligans just regular ticket holders??? OSFP didnt have the balls to stepinto the Panthers cage. and now they dont have the balls to take the punishment. That punishment was mild. Maybe instead of bitching you should LEARN and never let it happen again. That is what a punishment does. Does a fine really affect fanatic supporters???NO. A match ban??? a little, obviously not enough. When a team loses points, they are going to think twice. This isnt an opinion its a plain fact.

This is why you are the most hated club in greece.

also a gran father and garndson dont want to attend one of your games and have chairs thrown at them or witness racist chants either

[NYC_Olympiakos]

re gavri maybe we should forget that this eveb happened & let things go???

What r u nuts???

when we get back the 3 points then we will forget it !

SO WHAT IS THE PUNISHMENT THEN?

A FA is trying to DESPERATLEY to come down hard once and for all on the bullshit that hurts Greece and our football. What punishment do you recommend???? Your fans were a complete disgrace to greece, tearing apart a stadium and our glorious athletic image of 2004. Leave it to OSFP to tear apart Greek pride, in the Olympics, Ethniki matches, and now on the field. Well done. You deserve another slap on the wrist, and government funded ground. Saying u think this punishment is unfair- is it fair for a pappou and his grandkid to get attacked? the Panionios fans who werent even hooligans just regular ticket holders??? OSFP didnt have the balls to stepinto the Panthers cage. and now they dont have the balls to take the punishment. That punishment was mild. Maybe instead of bitching you should LEARN and never let it happen again. That is what a punishment does. Does a fine really affect fanatic supporters???NO. A match ban??? a little, obviously not enough. When a team loses points, they are going to think twice. This isnt an opinion its a plain fact.

This is why you are the most hated club in greece.

now pao fans are saying that we have ruined the image of 2004

let me all remind u the first act of hoolagnism was by pao fanatics that destroyed Olympiakos fan club

second this problem has existed for a couple of decades now especially in the 90's

something like this needed to happen to make everybody come back to reality and realize these type of things won't be tolerated

to stop this we need to find those that are the leaders of such acts of violence

the people that were arrested in the riots need to suffer a severe punishment (not the chait LoL)

but the fear of going to jail

we will see the results on monday

[Guest Protathlitis]

bar7, the reasn why we're still talking about it is because this is the thread on it and its the harshest punishment ever dealt out by a european FA, which is worsened by the fact that this kind of thing happens all the time in Greece and there is no precedent for this punishment epsecially considering that pao and aek 'fans' do exactly the same thing.

Drako, I explained this already: PAO IS THE MOST HATED CLUB IN GREECE BY SHEER NUMBERS, WE DONT WANT COSY RELATIONS WITH ANYONE

[drakos13]

re gavri maybe we should forget that this eveb happened & let things go???

What r u nuts???

when we get back the 3 points then we will forget it !

SO WHAT IS THE PUNISHMENT THEN?

A FA is trying to DESPERATLEY to come down hard once and for all on the bullshit that hurts Greece and our football. What punishment do you recommend???? Your fans were a complete disgrace to greece, tearing apart a stadium and our glorious athletic image of 2004. Leave it to OSFP to tear apart Greek pride, in the Olympics, Ethniki matches, and now on the field. Well done. You deserve another slap on the wrist, and government funded ground. Saying u think this punishment is unfair- is it fair for a pappou and his grandkid to get attacked? the Panionios fans who werent even hooligans just regular ticket holders??? OSFP didnt have the balls to stepinto the Panthers cage. and now they dont have the balls to take the punishment. That punishment was mild. Maybe instead of bitching you should LEARN and never let it happen again. That is what a punishment does. Does a fine really affect fanatic supporters???NO. A match ban??? a little, obviously not enough. When a team loses points, they are going to think twice. This isnt an opinion its a plain fact.

This is why you are the most hated club in greece.

also a gran father and garndson dont want to attend one of your games and have chairs thrown at them or witness racist chants either

no, they dont.

and there arent racist chants either... there are swears and like in every other stadium. tourkoi and voulgaroi chants are about it, but theyres so stupid its hard to beleive people can take them seriously.

I have sat many times in the section 10 were kids/granfathers sit. I have never heard of them being involved in receiving chairs thrown at them that is all in gates 7 and 13.

if we win by 3 points, we won when you morons decided to show up in Nea Smyrni. You are acting like the judges are at fault for what YOU DID! yeah ill accept we won because of your punishment, But the IDEA OF A PUNISHMENT IS TO MAKE IT NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN. is this so hard to understand? really, answer the question. they wanted to make a final and SERIOUS effort to stop this bullshit in stadiums. Panionios got punished too and they were the ones getting F***ed. Think about this now, use logic. If this crap keeps happening year to year, its obvious that fans arent taking the punishments seriously enough. If you want to make it understood that THIS WILL STOP and will no longer be tolerated(for real this time), you are going to have to resort to a more strict punishment. where is this wrong? and the more this keeps happening the stricter the punishments will get. It makes perfect sense.

The idea behind the punishment was to really enforce that this doesnt happen again.

this is not the first time in europe points have been taken away, i have heard of it before.

@osfp11

yeah it has been going on for a long time, thats true. but now they are finally sick of it after such a great 2004. they want it gone. there were some incidents before, but nowhere near the scale of what happened with Panionios. That went on world news, even yahoo world soccer front story had it, and they never post anything about greek football on a headline. This just put people over the edge and something had to be done. if it was any other club it would be the same, and even panionios got punished too.

yes, this year im sure ( i didnt hear ) that PAO fans attacked OSFP fans club somewhere.... i dont dout it. But tell me what does that have to do with football? Because of the scarves they were wearing??? The fan clubs have nothing to with the clubs affairs or the football. it was done in the name of stupid hooliganism and thats a matter for the Athenian police, you cant go to a club and fine them because the morons who do this support this team.....its not on the field, its not part of PAO the organization, its in a street corner somewhere. This is like a guy makes suicide bombing in the middle east people blaming the local Mosque. ridiculous. is that fair/relevant? no it isnt.

and i agree there is some organization behind this they need to be sent to jail but thats very hard to find out in a huge crowd. but often many times there isnt- people just get caught in the crowd mentality.

[CH-Thrylos]

looks like kokkalis spent a lot of money again ;)

sportnet

i think its unfair......but the good thing is for OSFP, your REAL fans will make SURE and put in place any idiots who try to hurt greek football or the teams.

why isnt the punishment fair? do you want it to happen again? Nobody in greece does, and no matter how big or small the club, the punishment will be the same and when the team loses points in punishment yeah the team is pissed, but the fans are even more pissed. And not losing points is something they can control. so take your tiny 3 point ban- ur still within 2 of 1st anyways, and dont let it happen again. Theres not a single valid reason to bitch about losing 3 points because OSFP fans made a complete disgrace of what was going to be a match.

That punishment was mild. Maybe instead of bitching you should LEARN and never let it happen again. That is what a punishment does. Does a fine really affect fanatic supporters???NO. A match ban??? a little, obviously not enough. When a team loses points, they are going to think twice. This isnt an opinion its a plain fact.

what a change of mind ;) . but that happened to most of us in here. it looks like taking points away from a team is against uefa and fifa law. and lykourezos wants to change the greek law so that points cant be deducted from teams. if he does so he has to find another way to make football matches safe in greece.

imo even taking points away wont make the fans change their minds. the whole thing could easily escalate like this. what whould happen if some fans dress up like their opponents and start making trouble in one of their matches? in one way this decision even encourages this behaviour.

i think osfp is more concerned about the match ban which causes a huge financial loss to them. 2 million euros! that is even a lot for kokkalis. and he is sick of paying for the stupidity of some of our fans.

i dont know wht could help to change the situation in greece. nobody does. but even this decision caused more trouble then shutting the fans up (match vs iraklis). a good start would be if the clubs would team up and work together to ban violence out of the stadiums. all these stupid fights before the derbies with one statement after the other against the opponents have to stop. it just heats up the atmosphere before the match and the "fans" take these actions as a sign to start making trouble and fight in their way against the other team.

i dont see it that, if this decision will stay as it is, things will change in greece. the mentality doesnt support this. there was an uproar after the decision, it was discussed over and over again, but as soon as some time has passed things will get back "to normal" as if this decision never happened. this is just the way greeks are.

[Evergreen]

i think osfp is more concerned about the match ban which causes a huge financial loss to them. 2 million euros! that is even a lot for kokkalis. and he is sick of paying for the stupidity of some of our fans.

I think you hit the nail on the head there. Kokkalis is thinking about the financial loss more than the pints reduction. Oly cans till win the league as we are only 2 points ahead of you and 5 game suspension is the big kick in the nuts at this moment in time. If the penalty was brought down to 3 games I think he would be happy.

Olympiakos had so ritueous arguments from this situation like the the one about the -3 and nullification of the Panionios game. It happend 8-9 years ago when a Aris -PAOK game was called off because sets of both fans entered the pitch. Both were given home suspensions but the game was played behind closed doors but I don't know if the laws of punishement have changed since then.

I can agree it's difficult to swallow when you have points deducted, game nullified and 5 game home ban, it's heavy but Olympiakos went to Nea Smyrni to show their power and that they do what they want, a trap was set up by Beos and the Police IMO and you gavroi fell for it not thinking that the punishment for such a thing would be so heavy.

Why was Kokkalis so desparate to get tickets foer the game? Why not say, ok Panionios, don't give us any and we wont give you, why cos so much comotion for a mere 322 tickets?

Kokkalis and his policy during the week wound those idiots of gate 7 up and they went there to show how powerful Oly is and you stepped on it. Kokkalis should never had got into an argument with Beos because Beos will drag you down to his level (not that Kokkalis' is much better) but Olympiakos want to change their profile from a Greek team to a European team and Kokkalis' behaviour did not prove that.

[CH-Thrylos]

well done mr watson. ;)

i didnt think about that. first i thought that the 322 tickets were ok because the stadium is small. but when i heard that over 10'000 people could go in there it seemed as a very small number for me too. if we wouldnt have taken the tickets things could look very different we would be 1-4 points ahead of you.

[bar7]

so evergreen you're stating that the gavri fell into the Beos trap like a bunch of fish?? :LOL:

[Evergreen]

Panions's ground can take 17.000. Yet Beos only gave order to issue 6.440!!! He knew the Olympiakos fan could fill the stadium on their own if they wanted too and he wanted least amount possible if none at all!!!

The new law this year states that the away team can only get a total of 5% of the tickets issued. If both clubs come to a mutual agreement not to have fans in either ties this is to be accepted. In addition, the police has the right to veto fans attendance if they deem they cannot secure the security of the officials, players and fans. This however did not happen.

Beos wanted to act the big "manga" and stating to the press that he will not give tickets to Olympiakos and Kokkalis took it personally saying to himself "Who does Beos think he is?" and then insisting that Oly gets the tickets because neither the police had vetoed that game, + he was covered by the law. If Beos had called Kokkalis and said "Listen bro, I think it's best that you don't take your ticket allocation, and I won't take mine in the return because I fear fan trouble" , I'm sure Kokalis would have gone along with that, just like Nikolaidis and Kokkalis agreed this year. But know, Beos wanted to act the big boy, and Kokkalis wanted to prove that he is the big boy so this rediculous argument started that lasted through out the week, incensed the GATE 7 fans.

Ofcouse, Kokkalis feared that the "official" and "legal" Olympiakos ticket holders might cause trouble and they were told not to do a single thing that would put Olympiakos in danger of being penalised.

This job was to be done by the "scarfless" Olympiakos fans that would enter without team colours so no one would know who they were, they'd kick up a fuss and show who's the boss, the only problem here is controling the mob. No one can control a mob. A mob has a mind of it's own. Until here, things are still ok for Olympiakos until the moment the Panionios fans storm the pitch and attack the Olympiakos fans who are up in the stands beating the riot cops. They came loaded from their side of the ground, with stones, broken seats, iron bars and starting throwing them to both sets of Olympiakos fan, both "legal" and "illegal". Then some Panionios fans went for the fans "pride"... their banners!!! Everyone in the world of hooligans knows that there is nothing worse than losing your banners, so because the "legal" Olympiakos fans were not to do nothing to save them (apart from take them down which they had no time too + contend with the 10's of missiles thrown, it was left to the "illegal" Olympiakos fan to jump onto the pitch to fight off and push back the Panionios fans + save the Olympiakos Gate 7 banners which were in danger of being stolen. The illegal Olympiakos fans did manage to save their banners, but were now having close quarter combat with Panionios fans on the pitch and there was no police in sight to stop them and split them apart. This was all happening at the time the players should have been warming up but both sets of players were locked up in the dressing rooms and a few that came out from olympiakos (Georgatos and Anatolakis) were both assaulted and only saved by the intervention of Panionios' captain, Takis Yannopoulos.

From the moment all this comotion had gone on all week, there should have been an increased presence of police at the game and from the moment there wasn't and re-inforcements were very late in coming, leave me with the perception that the whole thing had been organised for Olympiakos to fall into a trap and you have.

Kokkalis just didn't expect things to get out of hand, neither did he expect a pitch invasion, because it's the pitch invasion that called the game off. Something that has happend in the stands in the past has never been able to call a game off, pitch invasions have though.

Hook, line and sinker!!! ;)

[drakos13]

its Mpeos's right to give how many ever tickets he wants. It doesnt excuse what happened. It is still 100% OSFP fans fault, only they could get so out of hand and be morons, i mean u can live not going to 1 game and watching it on tv. but they are to stupid.

[CH-Thrylos]

its Mpeos's right to give how many ever tickets he wants. It doesnt excuse what happened. It is still 100% OSFP fans fault, only they could get so out of hand and be morons, i mean u can live not going to 1 game and watching it on tv. but they are to stupid.

why should it be stupid if you get the chance to buy tickets and go and watch a match?!

if these panionios fans who sold the tickets are to stupid to sell them to their own fans it is not just osfp's fault. if panionios just wanted to give away only 322 tickets it is normal that some fans would try to get tickets on another way.

if the whole "we-dont-give-you-tickets-because-you-didnt-give-us-last-year"-thing didnt happen the whole atmosphere wouldnt have been as aggressive as it was. it is always the same thing with our beloved club presidents heating up the atmosphere before some matches. if these guys would just shut up before the matches a lot less trouble would be caused in these matches.

get a grip man and dont just blame osfp because you hate the team. the whole thing is much more complicated as to just blame it on the "stupidity of osfp fans".

also clean up the dirt in front of your door before you start accusing others all the time. i wonder how some pao fans would have reacted if they wouldnt have gotten tickets for the match after the same happenings during the days before the match.

and still i havent got an answer of the greens in here how you would react if you would be in our position after a punishment like this. and dont tell me you wouldnt talk this subject to death. we are all greeks and have the same mentality.

[LUZ13]

Written by Evergreen

From the moment all this comotion had gone on all week, there should have been an increased presence of police at the game and from the moment there wasn't and re-inforcements were very late in coming, leave me with the perception that the whole thing had been organised for Olympiakos to fall into a trap and you have.

I agree , it was all premeditated to damage Oly, but who are the main guilty parties?

The ones who fell into the trap were maybe stupid , but to be stupis is not a criminal offense, if it were, at least half of the human kind would have been imprisoned

When I wrote my opinions earlier , most of you thought I was crazy, unfortunately I am not

I would have been very happy to be proven that it is only my paranoya, so typical to barsa fans in a Madrid - own country...

Now there is the attitued of the Federation of Football clubs, who declare that taking off points from teams is not in accordance with Fifa nad Uefa rules

Are you aware of the risl of possible banning all Greek club from international competitions until the Greeks modify their code of punishment?

We will see on Monday what happens

[CH-Thrylos]

if we win by 3 points, we won when you morons decided to show up in Nea Smyrni. You are acting like the judges are at fault for what YOU DID! yeah ill accept we won because of your punishment, But the IDEA OF A PUNISHMENT IS TO MAKE IT NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN. is this so hard to understand? really, answer the question. they wanted to make a final and SERIOUS effort to stop this bullshit in stadiums. Panionios got punished too and they were the ones getting F***ed. Think about this now, use logic. If this crap keeps happening year to year, its obvious that fans arent taking the punishments seriously enough. If you want to make it understood that THIS WILL STOP and will no longer be tolerated(for real this time), you are going to have to resort to a more strict punishment. where is this wrong? and the more this keeps happening the stricter the punishments will get. It makes perfect sense.

The idea behind the punishment was to really enforce that this doesnt happen again.

agreed, but will it really not happen again? that is what i am wondering. i just dont believe things will change from one day to the other. i wish they would.

i remember being in the stadium when efthimiadis got beaten up. to be honest i was very shocked, since i was used the well educated fans from switzerland. we do have riots over here too but not as much as in greece. and at least the fights are going on on the streets after the match, with just the people involved who really want to fight (stupid too, but better that tearing apart a stadium). but over here the police comes in and arrests as many people as possible. if a hard fight goes on the police bring in a lot of their teams very fast which walk in and arrest people.

recently before the match between grasshoppers zurich and basel the stopped a whole train on a station which was bringing basel fans to the stadium and the arrested every basel fan so that they cant make any trouble. this would be the way to get rid of violence in the stadiums. no mercy for anyone who starts making trouble. as soon as a bottle or a stone is thrown walk in, find the guy and put him into jail for some days. they dont have to stay for a long time but if this would happen repeatedly i think it would work.

[dipapa]

I can agree it's difficult to swallow when you have points deducted, game nullified and 5 game home ban, it's heavy but Olympiakos went to Nea Smyrni to show their power and that they do what they want, a trap was set up by Beos and the Police IMO and you gavroi fell for it not thinking that the punishment for such a thing would be so heavy.

Why was Kokkalis so desparate to get tickets foer the game? Why not say, ok Panionios, don't give us any and we wont give you, why cos so much comotion for a mere 322 tickets?

I agree with Evergreen's analysis, OSFP management was stupid enough to fell into the Beo's trap or at least reach his level of bullying. However, I don't agree that Kokalis (a succesful, if controversial, businessman in the industry/services sector) is similar to the gangster Beos for God's sake. Anyway, he shouldn't fell into the provocation game.

OSFP management behaved immaturely. They should realize that current political status is very unfriendly for Oly (and Kokalis) to expect a mild penalty like those Greek teams were given in the past. They acted in a frivolous way so typical for Greek club management.

Here is, imo, what is best for the future of the Greek football :

First, the law should change for point deduction to be abandoned.

Harsher fines to be imposed on team management, when they publicly stir up their fans. Remember that before the next PAO-OSFP derby, when presidents will start the usual press release fight.

More rights of intervention should be given to either police or stadium security. Cameras should be used for monitoring hooligans and judges should fine them with harsh fines (without "anastoli").

3 games without fans for both Oly and Panionios and a provision for 2 more games if they regress during this season. Huge fine should be kept as it is. They should feel the pain for stirring up fights.

If this incident passes without serious repercussions for *anyone* involved, we all know that a day with massive deaths will come soon. Very soon.

[dipapa]

Forgot to add one more vital service that our state should offer to the Greek football : ban Beos from football activities for ever. The guy is a disgrace. I know he's not the only gangster/fraud manager but he's easily the worst (bar Psomiadis).