sparta v pao

[Clover22]

Give me a break; if they can't beat them at home 2-0, the fans should start kicking doors down because this nonsense has been going on for too long now...is everyone happy the idiots got rid of Mantzios, one of our key players and a RELIABLE player in Europe, someone who can come through for us? T.C. is an average at best coach, and they have the money to find someone better. I don't expect anything really special this year - AGAIN - because its the same s hit, they come close to putting a very good side together, they're ALMOST THERE, then they go and f uck things up. Next game better be 2-0 or we'll raise hell.

[drakos13]

I dont think I'm being too leniant on the ratings, but that all depends cuz we have our own ideas of exaclty how awful each number means etc. For me, thats very harsh marks. In Champ. Manager, generally standard is 6, and anything below 5 is plain horrible, 7 is very good, 8 top quality, 9 is fantastic 10 is game-of-life etc... Thats maybe where we differ, because I'm quite sure we both know how awful the team was today.

Euro i think the blame game is pointless (within the defensive line)

We have hands down the worst defensive line out of the big clubs in Greece in my opinion. This is the worst defense I can remember at PAO. Theres even players on AEL who I'd rather have (Kotsios for one, did a standard job better than these lot of s%$#!, although his being not a name and Greek lost him his spot as a backup, even though he actually was quite reliable for a nobody)

I said earlier, it is PATHETIC that we even regard Vyntra as our top player. Vyntra should have been gone years ago, becuase he has only ever been decent in the last 2 seasons. Now----- I dont mind him anymore. Hell, hes the best we have. But all I am saying is that is quite pathetic. It goes to show we never upgraded anything for years.

Our Cb line for this year is Vyntra Bjarsmyr, Sariegui, and Kante.

Oh, cant forget Melissis :LOL:

God help us. The management are unbeleivably stupid for not signing the reliable player we need. Instead we picked up Bjarsmyr, who isnt bad and actually I want on the team. BUT HE CANNOT SERIOUSLY BE OUR FRONT LINE TOP CHOICE DEFENDER FOR THE SEASON. We are not so terrible where we cannot have DEPTH in defense for a change. I F***** told you so, too. THIS is why you dont wait to the last minute to finish signings. To have a ready team. Andoniou, Pateras blew it once AGAIN by not delivering on a CB. So what if they have August? what the hell is august going to do if some of our most important games of the season are in july/early august?

Also Ten Cate exclaimed how great a player Kante is. Right. Hes a walking catastrophe from his first friendly up to his first game. Return to sender. After that game, I dont really care if he can play better, I never want to see these random Euro losers fill up our rosters again.

As for turning this game around......we need a completley new team next game, and if they blow the first half with long balls and s%$#!, its over. We are completly unready today, and 1 week is not enough time IMO. The preseason was obviously unsuccesful because players even looked tired and slow.

I do hope we can past Prague and into the Europa Cup. If we do go to next CL qualifying round, we've got basically no chance with this defense of taking on the top teams, so I do not feel CL is even that realistic with the new system anyways.

I think PAO can score, but I'm not sure if we can keep Prague from scoring...Not with these losers in the back.

[Genome]

Entertaining game, aweful PAO (especially the defense) ...

I do think PAO will overturn the scoreline in Athens.

[Cisseee13]

wow dude wat a failure..4-1 in athens maybeeeee..theres no way we can hold anyone to 0 goals with this pitiful defence even this team..sparta is really bad actually its just embarissing..cisse was horrific..i mean i would rip on everybody else but i dont excpect them to have amazing games..but cisse missing a penalty come on, you need to put in 3 in athens to make up for today..in his defence can one of these losers get him a through ball seriously..everything in the air from 50 yards away looked disgusting..Athens we gotta start katsuranis and sarriegi cb moon on the right..start leto..get cisse the ball to his feet near the box and maybe we pull off a miracle like against wisla a couple years back..4-1 in athens..if Ten Cate has any skills in coaching a bunch of superstars we could make it happen if not your fired you cocky ass loser

[Kojak]

im shattered, and disgusted...but like the idiots that we are..we will all be waiting and watching for a miracle in the next leg.....myself included..

there is absoultely ZERO grunt in our defence, they are all soft "Madams", repka is in his late 30's and im sure cisse felt his tackles.

all our defenders jockey jockey jockey and then get turned.... that only ever works if u know your partner in defence is also following his man...as to close down the options...but no...they day dream....

Bring someone in opposing strikers will feel on the heels evry f$*ken minute of the game, just grinding and bruising, cause im sorry the guys we currently have are likeable...but are all pusssies...

[primetime]

PAO next game will probably pull off the W and go through to the next round. PAO is known in pulling off comebacks in major games. As for Cisse, what a joke, very good player but PK taker??? your better off asking Galinovic taking it. I might be over exaggerating but you guys get the picture. Next week different game, different outcome. I wonder how well OSFP will fair against their opposition with their injured plaguing them.

[cyberfish]

I have this sick feeling in my stomach after yesterday's debacle.

Horrible performance by Ten Cate, Cisse, Gilberto, Kante, Vintra, Gabriel.

Do you guys remember anyone winning a header in the box (besides Salpi's dissalowed goal?). We crossed and crossed and we didn't win any high balls. How are we to score?

Cisse probably irritated all his teammates with his constant complaining. He missed a tete-a-tete after passing the keeper, he almost botched a fantastic 3 on two counter on 6', he missed the penalty and in the second half he only showed up to receive a stupid booking. Pretty bad debut.

On the other side of the pitch, I agree that individually, this is the worst defensive line I ever remember at PAO.

The way Vintra was displaced in the first goal was sick to watch. The way everyone was watching the entire play from afar in the second goal was pathetic, and the way no one was able to put a body on Kaluda in the third goal was stuff for the little league. Bjarsmyr's attempt at tackle reminded me of Darlas (and where were the CBs on the play?).

We spent about 15 million on Cisse/Letto/Katsourani, but we spent less than 500k for our defense (Kante was free and Bjarsmyr cost about 480k). It's like buying an expensive sports car and then putting on the cheapest used tires you can find.

Forget creative play from defense. Get some players who can defend and let the midfielders to the rest. Besides, Vintra/Kante/Melissis/Bjarsmyr/Spyropoulos don't exactly strike me as ball handlers. Some of the first touches and passes yesterday were comedic.

In the last two seasons we went after some good names but came back with Melissi and Kante. We buy Bjarsmyr and we play him at RB (not that I think Moon would have been any better defensively yesterday). Not to forget that Vintra covered the CB spot because we failed to sign Pellrano or Givet last summer, and to his credit he had a good year.

It's hard to blame Galinovic for the goals, but I am a little tired of watching every ball that goes in count.

There is still time to buy a CB and a RB, but it will be too late for this year's Champios League. I don't believe we can win in Athens next week. Not only our defense is horrid, our offensive game showed nothing to give me hope.

Ten Cate screwed this one pretty bad. He should have known that Kante is no starting material after the friendlies, and he should have known that Spyropoulos can't play the whole side on his own.

I am dejected. Olympiakos giname gamoto :LOL:

[XXX-18T]

i felt sick watching the game as well.

It was a nightmare and couldnt believe it.

It felt like when we had Bakke and Skazny as our coach :(

What happened to all the discipline?

How can the team have changed so much from last year?

Same coach, same core players whats changed did they get drunk all summer long?

I remember the start of the season HTC screaming at the players "to play the f*cken ball" (on the ground) what the hell was the long ball crap?

Im confused and really disappointed :(

[GS1905]

If you happen to have a French international striker in a team worth ?10M and have a a back-line of "I'm too slow a LB" Spiropoulos - a no name/no contribution Malian - very hot hand-burning Swedish prospect blah blah blah - "have I ever been good" Vyntra", this result is not a surprise! I'm not sure if you noticed but even Kara was a shadow of his self from last year, too..

Sign a well-known, organising, captain-like defender, for God's sake!!! Could hev been Mellberg, but finds someone else right now! Or we'll get 50-60 points again and talk about how Cocky feeds the refs & how PAOK has drastically improved with Santos, and Frinos by the way would have flown past us by 20 points and celebrate their 37th title in 38 years!!!

Seriously, there was a man named Itzhak Shum, wasn't there? :angry:

[PAO_OR_DEATH]

seitaridis doesnt sound so bad now,,,,

im so dejected from this piss poor performance but i wont give up just yet. the season will seem so empty without euro play

[GS1905]

seitaridis doesnt sound so bad now,,,,

im so dejected from this piss poor performance but i wont give up just yet. the season will seem so empty without euro play

If PAO gets knocked out in this round, they'll play in the Europa League 4th qualifying round. So, there's no europlay being finished with such a loss

[PAO_OR_DEATH]

oh, i was under the impression if we lost this tie it was goodbye europa cup....

i guess all is not lost, if we do only make europa cup whats the bet we top our group and loose the corresponding top 16 tie on an away goal after playing much better than our opponents

[cyberfish]

I mentioned before that I think we'll have good chances to do something good in Europa cup, but only if we get to it after the Champions League group stage.

If we get eliminated from Sparta there will be a domino of effects that will affect this and the seasons to come.

First, psychologically the club will be in shambles entering the season, with fans calling for every green head they see. Misery breeds misery and I can see more negative results coming with ease.

Next, we'll be missing out on some good points in our UEFA ranking, the kinds of points that have been giving us favorable matchups in Europe for years. We run the risk of beginning qualifiers in June against stronger teams.

Not to forget that if we do get eliminated and Olympiakos makes the CL groups, they will be getting the entire 17m guarantee pool from UEFA. This will be money we'll be missing in the next couple of transfer season, while our rivals can use to improve their team.

We are in a very precarious position right now, and I hope we blow past Sparta next week to point our season in the right direction. The way I see it, our inability to buy a couple good defenders is about to throw the season in a tail spin before it even starts.

[AEKPROTATHLIMA]

Not sure what to make of this game!! Defenetly a bad game from PAO. I still beliee that they could win the next game and go thru. I still don't get what Ten Kate was doing. Why do you have Leto and Katsourani on the bench? I don't know but the bottom line is that part of this loss is his fault. Verry bad starting 11 in my opinion. Good luck next week.....

[drakos13]

If PAO gets knocked out in this round, they'll play in the Europa League 4th qualifying round. So, there's no europlay being finished with such a loss

Thats very reassuring. To be quite honest I did not really expect the team to make it to CL this year anyways. But past Sparta Prague!? Yes, I did. :angry:

A Europa "run" is not that realistic a prospect as the league is getting tougher. If we can make the final 16 it would be considered a decent run. Ironicaly, I beleive making it to the Final 16 of the CL (once your already in Group Stage) would be easier, seeing how this year 'extra' teams from s%$#! leagues are given free passes into the Group Stages, we should see some really easy groups. (as in easy to get the 2nd place to qualify)

But, we made ZEROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO IMPROVEMENTS IN THE BACK.

Kante, is an instant FAILURE of a transfer. Bjarmsyr I beleive has future, but seriously....a guy like that should be our second or 3rd choice. We should have a senior team player in that position for him to be in his footsteps.

You cannot seriously let the team go into 'defensive' stall again, and the only defensive acquisition made was.... Bjarsmyr, who NOBODY had ever heard of. Not to mention Katsouranis was a total waste of a signing, as we have 4-5 good CM now, and NOT ONE GOOD CB. They did the SAME s%$#! last year, signing Gilberto instead of a CB.

The team hasnt gotten worse. They just havent gotten any better. This catastrophe should not be new to anybody here. This was exact same as Anorthosis, Ergotelis, Panserraikos and I'm sure there are more of these "nightmare" games I'm forgetting.

I mean seriously, I dont think I've ever seen so many CB's on a team that IMO should be transfered out and replaced. Sariegui, Kante, Melissis,

Oh, and not to forget we let the MOST STABLE AND STURDY DEFENDER ON OUR TEAM GO, IOANNIS GKOUMAS. Apparently he was too "old" according to dipshit fans, yet you see players across Europe with that age performing for there clubs.

Gkoumas under Peseiro was our #1 CB, hands down. Last year HTC did not like him. This year hes forced out by our stupid management. Now, when defense is an absolute nightmare, not even Gkoumas is around to help out. We got.... KANTE, some random French African guy who belongs in Ghana's Serie B. And if he fails, we have MELISSIS.

The ENTIRE transfer season should have been defensive work.

Anyways. Next game I want to see Simao at CB, Moon RB, Leto LM, and Kante can play isle seat 33D on AirFrance flight #0892 to Marseille.

[greenfloyd]

I remember the days with markarian (me to kapello) and anastopoulos (with the church visits) when we had henriksen leading such a solid defence..

[Paoktsis]

Did not get to see the game, but I hope you guys can get it together for the second leg (for the good of Greece).

Not trying to be a smart or anything, but how do you all think PAOK would do against Sparta (if there was no greek playoff system of course).

Good luck in the next leg.

[Clover22]

Well, when you start f ucking around with something that doesn't need to be f ucked with, like our MIDFIELD, then you start to see problems. The only thing we needed to do this year is get 3 solid defenders, and 1 center forward. THATS IT. Thats all we needed. Keep Ivan and Mantzios. But no. They screwed with the formula.

[Euro2004]

I believe we can over-turn this game but we'll need the correct line up. Will Moon be back? If so i want to see

.................................................Galinovic..........................................................

...........................Vintra.............Katsouranis..............Sarriegui...........................

Ninis...........................Gilberto..............................Simao..............................Leto

...................................................Karagounis.....................................................

...................................Salpiggidis.....................Cisse.........................................

[athinaios]

Most of you focus on the fact that we didn't beef up our defense. This may be true, but in my estimate the game against Sparta was lost because of Ten Kate. Increasingly I'm of the opinion that this coach isn't what PAO should have for great successes.

He set up the team in the worst possible way. He's also slow to react.

Let's see our defense mistakes. Two goals came from Spyropoulos side, because no PAO player was on that side to help. Vyntra should be playing on the right side from the beginning not after the 70' with Sarriegi came in.

Why didn't Katsou start? He seemed ready in the friendlies more so that Gilberto (who wasn't good at all).

Leto should have started too.

Just too make mistakes by TKate. Shuffling around the team in a very important game when he didn't need to.

I know coaching changes have been too frequent at PAO, but TKate has been around long enough to show me what he's made of. This team is his own choosing. There are NO excuses any more. But, I just don't have confidence in that guy any longer. I hope he proves me wrong.

[drakos13]

Ten Cate did not prepare the team. They were slow, disorganized, playing long ball. The tactics and lineup I thought were not the only problem. I didnt see anything wrong with Katsouranis not playing and playing Karagkounis, Gabriel, Simao, Gilberto in Midfield. In Fact I'm quite accustomed to seeing those 4 in the midfield line I thought we could depend on them.

The defense being the SAME catastrophe it was last year is the big issue. Transfer season after transfer seasons, its incredible how badly the issue gets and how its completly ignored or brushed away.

I dont follow much of other teams in Greece so much than PAO.

But its simply PATHETIC, when OSFP's defensive line is maybe 2 or 3 times higher in quality. Even players of PAOK, AEK are enviable compared to the utter GARBAGE PAO has.

I said this last year and as basically nothing has changed, we may as well be a midtable superleague team (in the back line).

Why not Cirillo? Why? Is Kante so much better? I'm sorry WTF has heard of KANTE? Ligue 2? Howcome PAO is too high and mighty to even let Lequi on the team? What is this "lets reduce the size of the team" NONSENSE. Ok, the teams size is reduced as an excuse. So now we've got 4 dms, 4 inadequate CBs, 1 injured RB, 1 LB.

Matias Lequi would have been a DREAM signings, compared to the NOTHING we have now. So would be Cirillo.

Theyll spend 8 million on a striker, only to spend nothing on a defender? Signing Gilberto's, Cisse's is basically pointless, unless theyere a part of a functioning team. Without a serious defense were not going to be a team.

This management has been a load of crap IMO. Cisse, Gilberto, they are WOW signings.

Then who do they fill the team up with? Vardinogiannis style signigns, like Souza, Melissis, Clayton, Rukavina, Kante, Jakub etc. Honestly, I'd give up Cisse and Gilberto away in a second for a broad range/spectrum signings wtih good quality, experience and promise and in postitions we actually NEED.

Sorry to go onto this issue, but I was thinking, looked at OSFP's rosters, and realized OSFP has more championships than us, and not only that they are years ahead in defensive capability, and signings.

They beat us to Avraam Papadopoulos, Galitsios, Torosidis over the years....and thats enough for a back line for years to come, not to mention having the top defensive youth in Greece, but also having Olaf Mellberg, Raul Bravo, Didier Domi all back there. Thats a WEALTH of defenders, and our top-dog is Loukas Vyntra, who for years has been one of the biggest losers at PAO until last season where he found some form as a CB. Players like Sariegui, Kante, would not even make the bench at OSFP. Those are our starters, and thats PITIFUL for a club supposedly gunning for a title.

[Akritis_1944]

As non-fan of PAO, but as a Greek footballing fan I can honestly say I was very dissapointed with the result yesterday.

I didn't watch the match. However if you factor a missed penalty and a strange decision to disallow a the shortest player in box header the result can be overturned.

Good luck for the retrun in Athens. For the sake of some better results for Greek football I hope PAO get through..even if they slip through by their uncircumcised foreskins.

[billyzaf]

I think defense was an issue in the game but was not the main issue.

I think the problem came from the midfield which was nowhere to be seen. Gilberto, Simao and Gabriel where just not there. All the weight fell on the defense.

Secondly the left wing was weak with spyropoulos all alone.

Thirdly, where is mattos? Reports had him as one of our top-shaped players. He is the only defensive midfielder with a decent pass. The only one that steps into the box. Also he runs a lot and covers great area..And he is out of mission.

Fourthly, we needed a RB. Why did we let Nilson get away? He was great defensively. Not much of a full back but great work in the defense.

Fifthly, we needed a solid CB. I agree that the way the sparta guy got the header from Vintra was painfull to watch.

Sixthly we need a AM. And i think we even have him. Cleiton. Other than that it's Karagounis who is not that much of a "dekari".

I am a bit pesimistic about this year, if we don't make any other moves...

[athinaios]

Matos, you ask? I'd love to see him, but TKate has finished him. Matos is for sale and not only that while at PAO the coach isn't counting on him. This is BS. The kid was one of our best players the season before the last one but the current coach doesn't think he can help.

I still think it was TKate that lost the game with inappropriate lineup and very slow to react to the game to make the appropriate subs.

I'm going to disagree with most of you here, but I'd rather have a good all-around team than a few very expensive superstars. You need a solid team first before you bring in the 2-3 big superstars that will make the difference. Every year half of the team changes.... not the subs, but starting 11 players. You can't go far with this tactic.

What do you need in Europe? solid defense and a very controlled team (cohesive). What do you need in Greece? A team that comes in solidly every game and dispatches the lesser teams (80-90% of the teams in "SL").

Consistency!

[Crazy]

In an away game that Pao played bad,you managed to lose 3-1 and lost a penalty kick and had 1 goal disallowed.I really believe that Pao can and will play a lot better in a week and you guys will make it through.TenKate realised after today press and management bithing that if he does not turn the situation around he might find himself out of job so i expect a more normal starting line-up and strategy for the second league.