Greece v. Spain @ Euro 2008

[as5664]

As far as Charisteas is concerned, I am assuming that you agree that the other 5 strikers are the best alternatives to Agelos, if so how do any of them compare with his productivity for the national team? they don't.

Here are their stats and remember while Charisteas' goals include 4 in the finals, Gekas has 3 against Malta,

caps goals

7 FW Georgios Samaras 21 February 1985 19 3 Celtic

9 FW Angelos Charisteas 9 February 1980 67 19 Nuremberg

14 FW Dimitrios Salpigidis 10 August 1981 20 1 Panathinaikos

17 FW Fanis Gekas 23 May 1980 29 6 Leverkusen

20 FW Ioannis Amanatidis 3 December 1981 28 3 Eintracht Frankfurt

23 FW Nikos Liberopoulos 4 September 1975 60 13 AEK Athens

This is all we've got to chose from, and our forwards are better than our midfield, so what did you guys really expect?

-----

Another thing check out the values of the players on the 16 teams, and our average age

Brush up on your German my friends

NATION KADER Ø-ALTER MARKTWERT Ø-MARKTWERT

Spanien 23 26.5 381.000.000 € 16.565.217 €

Italien 23 29.2 351.300.000 € 15.273.913 €

Frankreich 23 28.0 323.800.000 € 14.078.261 €

Portugal 23 27.0 271.800.000 € 11.817.391 €

Deutschland23 27.2 234.400.000 € 10.191.304 €

Niederlande23 28.2 232.200.000 € 10.095.652 €

Kroatien 23 27.5 130.700.000 € 5.682.609 €

Russland 23 26.1 125.850.000 € 5.471.739 €

Schweden 23 29.2 121.050.000 € 5.263.043 €

Tschechien 23 28.8 112.050.000 € 4.871.739 €

Türkei 23 26.8 106.800.000 € 4.643.478 €

Rumänien 23 26.9 89.100.000 € 3.873.913 €

Griechenland22 29.0 86.700.000 € 3.940.909 €

Schweiz 23 26.4 81.950.000 € 3.563.043 €

Polen 23 27.2 60.050.000 € 2.610.870 €

Österreich 23 26.5 44.575.000 € 1.938.043 €

I still strongly disagree about our friend Charisteas. Mathematically, he is not more productive; in fact, he is about equal in goal scoring and that is considering he has been capped 67 times.

Lets take an example from your list above; I'll use Charisteas in comparison to Samaras and Gekas

1. Charisteas:

67 caps 19 gls = 29% scored during total play; appx. 3.5 games for every 1 goal.

2. Gekas:

29 caps 6 gls = 21% scored during total play; appx. 4 games for every 1 goal.

3. Samaras:

19 caps 3 gls = 16 % scored during total play; appx. 6 games for every 1 goal.

We see that Charisteas has not really scored more goals relative to his teammates. The biggest difference is Gekas and Samaras, the latter in particular, has a lot more potential. Samaras did suck for Man City, but remember he is young...he has only been out of the u-21 for about a year. He will really improve his game. Gekas is getting great experience at Leverkusen; where is Charisteas?? Division 2 Nuremberg!! Probably the only division 2 player starting in this whole tournament.

But anyway, I'm not saying Samaras and Gekas will be our saviours. I'm not that naive. My contention with Otto is that his tactics and player choices don't seem logical. I used to defend Otto, because we were getting results; it's difficult to criticize when things are going well, and it makes it seem that Otto has some "secret" strategy. Unfortunately, while all this works against Moldova, Bosnia and Malta, it does not work in the Euros.

One last point, I agree Otto has taken us to a level of soccer we could onnly dream of before. For that he deserves credit. But a good leader must sieze on fortune in order to lead well. He didn't do that. EPO has failed here also. After our win in Portugal, one of our songs was "fere mas, fere mas thn Brazilia!". Our optimism was so high that we were looking forward to a future were such a thing could be a reality!!!

And when players were actually excited to play for ethniki and there was an opportunity to capitalize on our high, we go to Albania with the same dolmedes and lose 2-1!

I knew we were not going to win another EURO, but the dream of reforming Greek soccer is down the drain. We do have some hope in our younger players and coaches like Nioplias who was trained in HOlland and firmly believes in attacking soccer...but with Otto at the helm we may miss many opportunities. I'm seriously worried we will not get out of the group stage for the WC qualifiers, because Otto believes we are not Germany, have no Beckenbauer, and can never score goals.

Otto, you are great...you have given us a dream; change our team and tactics (modern day soccer is much faster paced) and stay!!! Otherwise, auf wiedersehen!

[rodoj]

Otto had a chance to start the WC campaign w/some new blood and yet chose the same old camels. We lost to the 2nd string team and actually were lucky to not go away with a hiding.

You want to honor Niko & Antsas, play a friendly, not a listless game on the world stage !!!

[Irlandos]

Correct!

Antzas and Nikopolidis did not belong on the pitch last night

Nikopolidis - 3 - cost us the Russia game, and the 2nd goal vs Sweeden was shabby too

...and missed a shot directly at him in the Spain match :tdown:

[Irlandos]

Charisteas: Besides the goal, nothing. Continuously kept losing the ball. 5 (would have been a 4 if not for the goal).

Charisteas ran his tail off. He tried when others were content with metriotita. I don't think Greece have anyone better to play at the top of the attack. Gekas was a big disappointment.

[drakos13]

guys dont bother with statistics and goalscoring......theres a thousand factors a game that influence these numbers, and you cant draw any conclusions from them.

You can make "rates" for them, but they are useless because they cant be used for forecasting...just not realistic sorry.

Every game is against an opponent of different quality, and striker's abilities are also dependant on other players in the lineup, with lineups different, performances differing every game of others, and even diff amounts of minutes played - theres no real control that you can use to forecast goalscoring.

[drakos13]

Charisteas ran his tail off. He tried when others were content with metriotita. I don't think Greece have anyone better to play at the top of the attack. Gekas was a big disappointment.

Seriously,how.

He played less than 90 mins in this tournament.

The time he was on was vs Sweden when we went forward twice and he got no service. He was even helping out in the back and made some tackles.....He got subbed out at half for no real reason - he had absoltuley nothing to do with the lack of offense - that was the midfield and the defense who could not make absolutley anything productive.

vs Russia, he didnt get too much time, and didnt get hardly any services. He did what he had to do, came up to the midfield to spread the ball wide and continue the attack and even that game he had to help out the back line and once we even saw him make a tackle all the way at the defensive corner to bring the ball out to the defenders and go back up - and not to mention, it was his run that got us the equalizer but was ruled "offside" even though he was even......

Amanatidis was definitly the disapointment as he actually got space, services and even some great opportunities vs Spain with time and space and coudlnt hit the targt....

[DUDE]

1-4 = Stop football, become a postman! Absolutely abysmal!

5 = Poor

6 = Average

7 = Above average/good

8 = Very good

9 = Fantastic, match-winning performance

10 = World Class performance.

Nikopolidis: 5.5 = He seemed shaky when coming to collect high balls (as always) but I can't blame him for X.Alonso's 2 wonder efforts. They were moments of genius and you can't blame him for that.

Vintra: 6 = I was impressed. Much better than I expected. He got forward well and the Spanish didn't threaten too much from their left side. He lacked imagination when going forward but at least he was willing to cross the half-way line. He was also at fault (with Basinas and Karagounis) for the equalising goal. Check out how they were all stationary and none of them tracked De La Red's run behind them which led to the goal.

Dellas: 5 = If he hadn't slipped for the 2nd goal I'd have given him a 6. He seemed abit flat footed at times, but other than the 2nd goal, most of their chances came from distance because Dellas was pretty solid.

Kyrgiakos: 6 = Pretty solid but his ball distribution was abysmal. Otto has to do with Kyrgiakos what Wenger did with Tony Adams... tell him "you win a tackle, you play a simple pass to a midfielder and let them worry about the passing!". Because 80% of Kyrgiakos' long balls go to the opposition.

Spyropoulos: 5 = He tried and got forward but he left HUGE gaps in defence. I've lost count of the amount of times they had acres of space behind Spyro. Sorry, but he's not good enough for NT football.

Katsouranis: 4 = At times it was like playing with 10 men, he didn't protect the defence, he didn't get forward, he didn't retain possession... diladi ti ekane?

Basinas: 6 = I'd have given him a 7 if he wasn't a fault (along with Vintra and Karagounis for the equaliser). His passing was good and it seemed like he was the only one capable of creating anything for us.

Karagounis: 6 = I'd have give him a 7 also if not for the goal. He seemed dangerous everytime he got the ball, particularly in the 2nd half until he got subbed. He also got an assist.

Amanatidis: 5 = He didn't do much and he missed a huge chance! Very disappointing performance.

Salpi: 5 = Worked hard but offered nothing.

Haristeas: 7 = Got a goal and almost had a 2nd. He also worked his socks off. Bravo.

SUBS:

Tziolis: 5 = The team lost a great deal when he came on for Karagounis. He's too top heavy and not clever enough. Not good enough for NT football.

Antzas: 4 = Apart from give the ball away I can't think of anything else he did. I was sad to see that he didn't get any applause when he came on as a sub though.

Stelios: N/A = 10 mins was not enough to judge him, although he seemed as if he was lacking in energy... considering that he hasn't played all year and came on as a sub, I have no idea how this is possible! Retire son, retire.

Otto: 7 = I thought his tactics were good, Antzas and Niko played for sentimental reasons so I won't criticise him for that. Tziolis was a bad choice, but this was like a friendly so he was testing him. But tactically he was good.

[OFI-mtl]

question: WAS HARISTEAS GOAL A MISTAKE OR WHAT? WHY COULD THAT HAPPEN AGAINST SWEDEN / RUSSIA? DID SPANISH DEFENSE FALL ALSEEP? WAS HARISREAS JUST MORE ACTIVE AND QUICKER TO THE BALL?

No ...it was just the 1st time he was used as the middle man, he felt at ease ...the guy can not play on the wings...Otto KSIPNA!!

[gcp]

Vasinas 6? Kata tin apopsi mou 2-3 me to zori, se ola tha pexnithia. Oute to taxidromio tha ton thelei, ospou na sikosi to ena podio to allo tha mirisi :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

[PAO_OR_DEATH]

Dissapointed, but what can I say?? at least we scored a GOAL.

Although i must critic the inconsistancies of the refs AGAIN!!!!!!!!!

Guiza should have been sent off!!!! He had a YC to his name and was involved in unsportsman like behavior (which kara (and some one else)was booked for!!). IMO Spain should have been a man down for the last 20 minutes

realistically

0-1, 1-1, 1-1 were our results. I smell something fishey here BUT isnt that football? These tournaments are won on LUCK alone. Look throughout the years of all the bullshit calls that cost teams (who deserve the results more) big games!!!.

BUT hey this does not excuse the strikers for not scoring!!! although there are problems feeding them the ball BUT TODAY there were numerous chances that went begging (notably at the end of the second half were charasteas and amanatidis forgot that they are allowed to pass the ball to one another!!!!!!!!)

I really hope this is not the end of Greece's run in big tournaments. At least now we can aim to qualify and go to the finals with the goal (excuse pun) of scoring and (at a stretch) wining a game. We have some promising youth on the way, remember we came second in the U19 euro last year.

I was kind of hoping for a last minute penalty that Nikopolidis could take, he scored plenty of goals for the other teams so he deserved at least the chance of one real goal to his name!!!!!

[Genome]

Stelios Giannakopoulos urged Greece to "remedy the negatives" ahead of FIFA World Cup qualifying after his side's Group D campaign ended in a third defeat.

In perspective

Having led 1-0 early in the game, Greece lost 2-1 to Spain in Salzburg to finish their title defence with no points, but winger Giannakopoulos told his team-mates not to be too dispirited. "Nobody expected us to win the trophy again," the 33-year-old said. "What we achieved back in Portugal was something unbelievable. Of course we didn't come to Austria as tourists but to enjoy the tournament. Let's not forget that a big team like France also fell at the group stage, while a massive footballing power like England didn't get here at all.

Positive aspects

"We have to remedy the negatives, but we also have to appreciate the positives and be optimistic. Our main target is to qualify for every major tournament. If we qualify, we can aspire to more," he said, adding of the 90 minutes played at the Stadion Salzburg Wals-Siezenheim: "This is the end of the tournament for us. We deserved a bit more from the first round. Both today and in the match against Russia, we could have got at least a point."

Source and full article.

[DUDE]

dude, good to have you posting on this match - i agree with much you say..just want to ask:

Thanks... I was just too disappointed to talk about the Russia game.

i'm not sure you can blame the right fullback for not tracking an attacking center mid's run into the greek box. i noticed yesterday that katsouranis 'appeared' to track #22 and not #10, cesc. i do agree with you that vyntra was better than anticipated, especially defensively.

In normal circumstance Vintra would not have to track back, but in this particular instance he found himself in centre-midfield for some reason, and he just let the player run straight past him. Katsouranis (if I'm not mistaken) was on the right side of the middle for this play, as if he was caught in 2 minds about whether to cover Vintra's usual spot, or hold his position in centre-mid. Either way, it's criminal that none of the midfield tracked back. I've said it before and I'll say it again, this is probably Greek football's biggest defensive weakness. Whether we're talking about Greece vs Spain, Olympiakos vs Chelsea, PAO vs Man Utd, etc, this problem always emerges. They simply fail to pick up the midfielder making a late run into the box. Why? It can't be a lack of defensive knowledge can it? It must be laziness and it must be stamped out.

if katsouranis doesn't want the ball (as he frequently waved off the back 4 in passing him the ball) what is kyrgiakos to do?? did you not see karagounis trudge back deep and attempt some type of build-up play because of katsouranis' unwillingness to get into the match? this caused karagounis to log almost 9 km's on his legs in 70something minutes and an early exit from the match. this also saw greece play deeper - which allowed spain right back into the match.

If that's the case then it's very well spotted file, I didn't notice that. But if that's happening then it adds weight to Irlandos' argument that Katsouranis shouldn't be in the team. Now I agree with you, we don't have the luxury to drop him because Karagounis and Basinas are aging, but realistically, he offers nothing and may need a kick up the backside to get him playing again. If he starts the next 3 games on the bench we'll probably see him respond, if not then he has to lose his place, that's football. Personally I'd like to see Torosidis in the middle at his expense.

- i also thought that otto had a case of inertia, just watching and yawning as his side defended and played too deep, allowing the spanish right back into the match...and it was only a matter of time before things would collapse - as they did.

While many were calling for his head I supported him, but it's clear that the players (Katsouranis, Seitaridis, Stelios, etc) are resting on their laurels. Also Otto aging and is possibly losing his passion for the game. We need to give the team a jump start and Otto should go.

It's clear we don't have the natural talent to play an open game like Russia so a Guus Hiddink type manager may not suit us. For me, we look most dangerous when, immediately after we've taken a set piece and it's cleared to our defensive players... all our players are still in the box and the ball comes in again. We always cause problems in those situations. Unfortunately, during open play we aren't brave enough (or fit enough!) to get bodies into the box. So if it was up to me, I'd get Sam Allardyce as a manager to get us playing like Bolton used to play under him. Physical, commit lots of bodies in the box, fight for every ball, etc. That style suits the weapons we have.

don't be upset by all this. i thought the side would make the next round. i'm disappointed, but not devastated. the whole world saw what we've been debating here. i thought the greece side could & would use hard work and smart tactical play in overcoming their obvious deficiencies in debated areas. it didn't work out. you seemed more pessimistic and you were correct. just not enough quality that hard work and team football could not overcome.

No file mou, the whole world didn't see what we've been debating... everything in life is about perception, and what the whole world saw was that Greek football is inept. This tournament sent us 15 years backwards. A good tournament here would have almost have certainly seen Torosidis move to a superclub, while Kyrgiakos, Katsouranis & Gekas would have all moved to bigger clubs. On top of that our football would have gained respect and big clubs would have taken a chance on Papastathopoulos, Ninis & Mitroglou. This in turn would have bought bigger sponsership deals and injected more money into our game.

Instead the world sees 2004 as a fluke, Kyrgiakos will end up at a mediocre club, Torosidis, Papasta and Ninis will stay in Greece where their development will be stunted. We'll get a rude awakening against Switzerland and fail to qualify for the W/C and that's when Greeks everywhere will get nostalgic about the 2004 golden era, which will in turn lead to an inferiority complex. The cycle same old cycle we're used to will set in and that will be it... I love football re file, and I mean that literally. I know that's pretty pathetic really, but I really do. Whenever I've had problems in life or sadness of any sort, I always mask it with football and because of that it plays a big part in my life. So it pains me to think of what's coming... I don't think I'm being pessimistic, just realistic. Our football is globally perceived to be a bourdello, and it's going to get worse.

Still though, I guess we'll always have 2004 etched in our hearts.

[andrew_g]

Thanks... I was just too disappointed to talk about the Russia game.

In normal circumstance Vintra would not have to track back, but in this particular instance he found himself in centre-midfield for some reason, and he just let the player run straight past him. Katsouranis (if I'm not mistaken) was on the right side of the middle for this play, as if he was caught in 2 minds about whether to cover Vintra's usual spot, or hold his position in centre-mid. Either way, it's criminal that none of the midfield tracked back. I've said it before and I'll say it again, this is probably Greek football's biggest defensive weakness. Whether we're talking about Greece vs Spain, Olympiakos vs Chelsea, PAO vs Man Utd, etc, this problem always emerges. They simply fail to pick up the midfielder making a late run into the box. Why? It can't be a lack of defensive knowledge can it? It must be laziness and it must be stamped out.

if katsouranis doesn't want the ball (as he frequently waved off the back 4 in passing him the ball) what is kyrgiakos to do?? did you not see karagounis trudge back deep and attempt some type of build-up play because of katsouranis' unwillingness to get into the match? this caused karagounis to log almost 9 km's on his legs in 70something minutes and an early exit from the match. this also saw greece play deeper - which allowed spain right back into the match.

If that's the case then it's very well spotted file, I didn't notice that. But if that's happening then it adds weight to Irlandos' argument that Katsouranis shouldn't be in the team. Now I agree with you, we don't have the luxury to drop him because Karagounis and Basinas are aging, but realistically, he offers nothing and may need a kick up the backside to get him playing again. If he starts the next 3 games on the bench we'll probably see him respond, if not then he has to lose his place, that's football. Personally I'd like to see Torosidis in the middle at his expense.

While many were calling for his head I supported him, but it's clear that the players (Katsouranis, Seitaridis, Stelios, etc) are resting on their laurels. Also Otto aging and is possibly losing his passion for the game. We need to give the team a jump start and Otto should go.

It's clear we don't have the natural talent to play an open game like Russia so a Guus Hiddink type manager may not suit us. For me, we look most dangerous when, immediately after we've taken a set piece and it's cleared to our defensive players... all our players are still in the box and the ball comes in again. We always cause problems in those situations. Unfortunately, during open play we aren't brave enough (or fit enough!) to get bodies into the box. So if it was up to me, I'd get Sam Allardyce as a manager to get us playing like Bolton used to play under him. Physical, commit lots of bodies in the box, fight for every ball, etc. That style suits the weapons we have.

No file mou, the whole world didn't see what we've been debating... everything in life is about perception, and what the whole world saw was that Greek football is inept. This tournament sent us 15 years backwards. A good tournament here would have almost have certainly seen Torosidis move to a superclub, while Kyrgiakos, Katsouranis & Gekas would have all moved to bigger clubs. On top of that our football would have gained respect and big clubs would have taken a chance on Papastathopoulos, Ninis & Mitroglou. This in turn would have bought bigger sponsership deals and injected more money into our game.

Instead the world sees 2004 as a fluke, Kyrgiakos will end up at a mediocre club, Torosidis, Papasta and Ninis will stay in Greece where their development will be stunted. We'll get a rude awakening against Switzerland and fail to qualify for the W/C and that's when Greeks everywhere will get nostalgic about the 2004 golden era, which will in turn lead to an inferiority complex. The cycle same old cycle we're used to will set in and that will be it... I love football re file, and I mean that literally. I know that's pretty pathetic really, but I really do. Whenever I've had problems in life or sadness of any sort, I always mask it with football and because of that it plays a big part in my life. So it pains me to think of what's coming... I don't think I'm being pessimistic, just realistic. Our football is globally perceived to be a bourdello, and it's going to get worse.

Still though, I guess we'll always have 2004 etched in our hearts.

while Kyrgiakos, Katsouranis & Gekas would have all moved to bigger clubs. On top of that our football would have gained respect and big clubs would have taken a chance on Papastathopoulos, Ninis & Mitroglou. This in turn would have bought bigger sponsership deals and injected more money into our game.

I agreed with everything but that. Let me tell you something. We won in 2004 without all these players playing in Europe. Look Italy has a much better league, but all their players play in Italy. Part of the problem IS that all these players are playing in Europe. If you read the article about Katsouranis he is very unhappy leaving his family in Athens while he plays in Portugal and is willing to buy his contract out. In this tournament from the start, I saw very unhappy faces and Katsouranis has been unhappy from the start. The same for Basinas, Kyrgiakos, Gekas, and the rest. These guys were also exhausted, the last time they were fresh and everyone was tired and they took advantage of that. I think now if they play for the big clubs, they will be purchased on their own merits, not by a prestige signing. Whatever happened to these golden boot winners in the world and euro cups: Salenko, Baros, Skuhravy, and Schillaci? Nothing and to all these players who after making a run for the cup they were bought and thrown on the subs bench to gather dust after a major tournament? Nothing.

There is a light at the end of the tunnell--never in our lifetime will they win a major tournament, but they will cut it close. There is a way back for these players in the World Cup: Karagounis, Charisteas, Ninis, Kyrgiakos, Dellas, Mitroglou, Spyropoulos, Torosidis, etc. But we need a coach who isnt' going to try to prove he's the master and the press are always wrong, sometimes the press makes the correct points. I think Zagorakis is the man, if Van Basten can do it why not Theo?

A

[AEK-MTL]

Although I can understand DUDE's pessimism (believe me I'm as frustrated as your are file), I don't think things will really get that bad. The Greek NT has reached a new level since Otto came in. I no longer believe it unreasonable to expect that they qualify for every tournament. Frankly, I'd put us squarely in the midst of the middling European nations: Sweden, Turkey, Russia, Denmark, Romania, Ukraine, etc. Teams that aren't really contenders for titles but usually expect to qualify everytime. Considering we had only qualified for two tournaments prior to 2004, I consider this a huge step up.

The fact is, 2004 was a dream and dare I say it, a miracle. We are simply not good enough to consistently be among the top contenders for titles and we likely never will be. That's just life.

And to Irlandos, I never said that Charisteas didn't try. The point is, besides the goal, he was indeed useless. His effort does not mask the fact that he kept giving up the ball about 2 seconds after getting it, thereby wasting possession and hastening another Spanish attack.

[athinaios]

Lazarus said a while back that you need luck. This is absolutely true. But....

Luck favors the prepared. Can you honestly say that if we were luckier, we'd have done much better? We didn't have the players, the coaches, and the strategy.

If you're very unlucky you may stumble, but if you don't know how to run, walking ain't gonna get you anywhere fast when others are running.

Second, the talk about miracles isn't very helpful. If a miracle happens, it means that it's out of your control and you get something unexpected (undeserved too?).

Further, it's bad mentality to wait for miracles to happen, because you never know when they'll occur again. I hope Greece has a better strategy than to pray for miracles.

But, if we keep Otto, Gagatsis (what a clown) and the crappy domestic league, no good change will happen any time soon. I hope I'm wrong....

[Guest TheLegend]

Charisteas ran his tail off. He tried when others were content with metriotita. I don't think Greece have anyone better to play at the top of the attack. Gekas was a big disappointment.

Charisteas played very good against spain. Made some runs held the ball strung some passes and scored a goal. What else do you expect from a center foward. Rehagel has screwed this team up. We do have potential to be a good team. Our defense is weak but our defenders arent. Look at our defenders individualy, how can you say we dont have better defense than half the teams in the euro this year. Rehagel doesnt care. He won a title and knows he wont win another one anytime soon with greece so he doesnt even care to try to make it as close to the finals as possible. No more passion = get rid of him.

[gcp]

In perspective

Having led 1-0 early in the game, Greece lost 2-1 to Spain in Salzburg to finish their title defence with no points, but winger Giannakopoulos told his team-mates not to be too dispirited. "Nobody expected us to win the trophy again," the 33-year-old said. "What we achieved back in Portugal was something unbelievable. Of course we didn't come to Austria as tourists but to enjoy the tournament. Let's not forget that a big team like France also fell at the group stage, while a massive footballing power like England didn't get here at all.

Ta idia Panteli mou ta idia Pantelaki mou...a re klotsies pou thelete oloi!! Epagelmaties ths plakas.....Allh mia apodiksi oti h nootropia ths dikeologias einai to mono stathero simio ths Ellhnikhs skepshs. Olla t'alla sunexizoun nanai astata.

[DUDE]

Ta idia Panteli mou ta idia Pantelaki mou...a re klotsies pou thelete oloi!! Epagelmaties ths plakas.....Allh mia apodiksi oti h nootropia ths dikeologias einai to mono stathero simio ths Ellhnikhs skepshs. Olla t'alla sunexizoun nanai astata.

:tup:

[cyberfish]

I think this has become the "official party line" for the entire NT, EPO, and the coaches: "Why complain? We did not come here to win the trophy again. We already won it once", and they think that they justify themselves.

The truth is, no one expected the Greek NT to win the title again. No one even expected that they would reach as far as the final (some faint hope that existed in most Greeks was not really an "expectation").

But to speak for myself, I expected that the Greek NT - the European champions - will look like contenders. I expected a team that will put forth a valiant effort on the pitch, I expected players that will run till they drop, and that they will be competitive enough to push for qualification to the QF.

We saw none of that. Instead we saw our team lose without a fight. Despite what others might say, I don't consider the effort displayed against Russia or Spain's second team to be all that great. It was mediocre at best. The effort against Sweden was downright embarrassing.

No matter how you look at this, and no matter what B.S.ers like Otto, Gagatsis, Giannakopoulos, Karagounis, or Basinas say, the Greek NT, not only failed miserably, they embarrassed themselves out there.

[Clover22]

I have to agree with cyber; these guys certainly are bullsh itters. Dellas: " We have to learn from our mistakes" The mistake is that he PLAYED. Dellas should not have been called for this tournament, he's burnt along with Seitaridis, Basinas,Stelios, and Nikopolidis. Why call players that are out of form? Who's fault is that? The coach! Plain and simple! Its the coaches responsibility to organize the team, and they were terribly disorganized. There was no communication on the field; there was always someone in midfield looking for their teamate; what kind of a game plan is that?

[plato-ny]

Albanian video making fun of Greece in Euro 2008. This is coming from a country who is the Eternal European Champion of Non-Qualification

[drakos13]

dont even worry to post it plato.......it will just make them get more hits....

those people are such idiots, Youtube ends up being 5% cool content, and the rest is for moron nationalists and idiots, biggots from every country around the world (but mostly the Balkans and Turkey) to spread hatred garbage, taunts and try to spread misinformation....Maybe YouTube could use some standards.....and the good content is being claimed by even more ridiculous idiots who are calling copyright on your own recorded material :angry: with no chance to appeal.

Youtube is best these days for finding rare music, and live performance type stuff IMO.

[NYPAO13]

only one goal in the EURO 2008, but it did land in #7 in the goals of the week on the fox soccer channel. [fsc]

[aekrossoponti]

only one goal in the EURO 2008, but it did land in #7 in the goals of the week on the fox soccer channel. [fsc]

wow, now thats something!! who needs the semis...

:D