Jump to content
Phantis Forums

ATTENDANCE IS DOWN- WHERE ARE THE FANS?


athinaios

Recommended Posts

:tup:  :tup:

yeah, except that many "families" comprise the season ticket holders and are the full sections on the sides is a lot of families. A family I mean a father and his kid, or kid and daughter.

This whole family thing in games is a load of BS. Sure kids go to games too. People who love this sport and team enough to go see it are usually males from age 8 all the way up 70

thats a pretty wide market. I would imagine families in Greece dont have as much disposable income as bachelors living at home

You guys are talking about families in stadiums as the solution or something.....why are we ruling out the tons of students, teenagers, young and middle aged adults that are interested in Panathinaikos and are not going to matches? We outnumber the families living in Athens.

Our first european game, two derbies one vs OSFP in our centennial season - and THIS tournout you think has something to do with 'families' not feeling like going because of swear words and occasional throwing of objects ???

Its a tiny stadium and its almost empty in old days it used to fill for Apollon with ease If you really think that only families and hooligans are interested in football matches you should try going and seeing what types of people go to a PAO match, because thats totally ridiculous.

This emptiness has nothing to do with family atmophere or any of that BS - youre thinking out of a context for ATHENS - that maybe the case in UK, Canada or America but its not in Athens.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 80
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Our stadium is empty for a lot of PAE reasons, not because of the fans! PAE is the one who is TERRIBLE at their job and stadium operations in Leoforos. The families are scared thing is just a terrible shallow response. Its nothing to do with Gate 13 either - Gate 13 lit flares chanted and occasionally threw things......BIG DEAL. That made games vs crappy Proodeftiki or Agrotikos Asteras PLENTY more entertaining - people dont go to matches solely for the soccer - theres an EXPERIENCE around it - atmosphere is part of it.

Theres no hype for PAO games, theres no promtions except from Derby (paper) for free tickets occasionally........When has PAE gone out there and done something new to bring people into the stadium.......a fair percent of Greece and Athens is Panathinaikos, we know the country is sports crazy - HOW ON EARTH ARE PEOPLE NOT SHOWING UP?! PAE has done nothing but s%$#! on its fanbase from team operations, bogus ticketing agents and obscene ticket prices - (it does not help that Athens has become a very expensive place to live in! - to spend 50 euros on a mediocre team in a stadium with no atmosphere is not appealing)

Theres ZERO creativity in PAE Marketing team or promo whatever. They sell merchandise, publish a magazine and give free crap with the magazine - thats really about it. How about more promos with free tickets, have some matches give discounts to students - it brings them to the stadium and in bringing in more interest which makes them way more likely to become regular matchgoers. Its not insanely difficult, they just need to get attention and get people in the stadiums, make them realize its an enjoyable experience and they will be customers of PAO, supporters bring merchandise sales, bring future ticket sales.

Theres a new stadium coming and its 100 years PAO - how have you not so much as MADE A DECENT EFFORT?! This should be EASY to get PAO fans excited, active and involved. IT IS EASY. But you have to spend time and money and hire people - and that way, you will MAKE MONEY! Its called an investment PAE .......

Ticket Club (Incompetent Sons of Bitches) are a BIG reason for this seasons dramatic drop. The whole ticketing and signing up, point system to be eligible for matches, not being able to buy tickets for other - its absolutely IDIOTIC.

This system alone I guarantee you is reponsible for the poor attendance in the derbies. I am telling you it , as it is a FACT. Season opens with a derby - and you need six points to buy tickets, maximum 1 ticket. If youre a new member, you start with ZERO points. So basically if you were not a ticketclub member when they tried to pull that s%$#! before a few years ago, you could NOT get a ticket to see the derby - Real Smart eh? Yeah but eventually as you go to matches you accrue points you dont have to worry about it - yeah except not everyone wants to pay and go to small matches to be eligible for another match, and people will forgo matches a lot more often. You cant force your customers and lock them in to buying - incentives are fine but this system is terrible - if they were promoting PAO they wouldnt have to worry about demand for tickets ! All this terrible system AND with a team thats not suberb means its just NOT going to work.

If people arent in the stadium, people are not going to want to shell out 30E for a ticket or 20E even - why go for a team not that great - and with NO atmosphere due to the bans????

Ticket Prices - Ticket prices should be related to supply and DEMAND. Ticket prices are definitly too high, Athens is expensive as it is.

So Ticket Prices/Athens, lack of Promotions/Hype, lack of Advertising, Ticket Club, not too exciting football, and ironically the lack of exciting atmosphere is a cause of lack of atmosphere.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a few questions and please excuse me if they sound really dumb bc i live in melb so im used to a normal ticketing system etc etc

1) Doesnt PAO offer a discount price to students and children? Here in Australia all students get a discount for any ticket they buy, where it be for a concert, movie, footy or soccer.

2) If I happened to be in Greece for aholiday and i wanted to see PAO at leoforos would I be able to get a ticket? Do i have to sign up to ticket club, then bring my passport etc. This sounds extremely idiotic and also concerning as how would PAE expect to bring in new fans - are they just relying on the kids of existing pao fans to be able to regenerate their fan base.

3) Can fans purchase memberships - ie season tickets - so you buy a membership at start of yr and this gets u into all games etc oor u have priority for tickets for important games, ie uefa cup and cup finals.

4) what is the crowd average so far? Was ticket club used last season? I hear ppl mention it was used a few yrs ago. If it was used afew yrs ago has pao always had it or did they get rid of it and then bring it in again.

5) How does olympiakos fair in this department?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Excuse me but if i;m not mistaken, refs are supposed to be professionals and look past the insults of the fans. Why isn't a player allowed to make hand gestures to the crowd when they are insulting him? Why should the ref be given special treatment. If the ref has the balls to not give a penalty in the 92 he should be able to take a few insults. Lets get him a tissue so we can wipe the tears from his eyes. If the fans are throwing objects onto the pitch, then i understand stopping the game. But where is the safety issue in making fun of the ref. Maybe every fan should donate $1 to help pay for the refs psychologist.

You still didnt asnwer my question wouldnt you react if someone calls your mana a slut cause of a decision you made or not?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

yeah, except that many "families" comprise the season ticket holders and are the full sections on the sides is a lot of families. A family I mean a father and his kid, or kid and daughter.

This whole family thing in games is a load of BS. Sure kids go to games too. People who love this sport and team enough to go see it are usually males from age 8 all the way up 70

thats a pretty wide market. I would imagine families in Greece dont have as much disposable income as bachelors living at home

You guys are talking about families in stadiums as the solution or something.....why are we ruling out the tons of students, teenagers, young and middle aged adults that are interested in Panathinaikos and are not going to matches? We outnumber the families living in Athens.

Our first european game, two derbies one vs OSFP in our centennial season - and THIS tournout you think has something to do with 'families' not feeling like going because of swear words and occasional throwing of objects ???

Its a tiny stadium and its almost empty in old days it used to fill for Apollon with ease If you really think that only families and hooligans are interested in football matches you should try going and seeing what types of people go to a PAO match, because thats totally ridiculous.

This emptiness has nothing to do with family atmophere or any of that BS - youre thinking out of a context for ATHENS - that maybe the case in UK, Canada or America but its not in Athens.

Dude i was refering to the family issue only cause one of the posters refered to it cause of the swearing and so.

I dint refer to this whole thing cause of the emptiness of Leoforos.

I am very well aware of the fact that not the familys get leoforos full and not the familys are the ones that travell along with the team (when this is possible )

IMO the whole issue with the empty Leoforos has to do with dirty powergames of both sides Vardinogiannides and Gianakopoulaioi as the recent issues with PAE and Erasitexnis show again. Why else suddenly PRASINI brings a report up to disturb the whole Family of PAO and how the F*** to they get to such documents? BTW know that "PRASINI" belongs to Gianakopoulos family? We the fans are just the sheeps that are beeing used and slaughtered by both sides.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Excuse me but if i;m not mistaken, refs are supposed to be professionals and look past the insults of the fans. Why isn't a player allowed to make hand gestures to the crowd when they are insulting him? Why should the ref be given special treatment. If the ref has the balls to not give a penalty in the 92 he should be able to take a few insults. Lets get him a tissue so we can wipe the tears from his eyes. If the fans are throwing objects onto the pitch, then i understand stopping the game. But where is the safety issue in making fun of the ref. Maybe every fan should donate $1 to help pay for the refs psychologist.

You still didnt asnwer my question wouldnt you react if someone calls your mana a slut cause of a decision you made or not?

Not when it comes with the job description! If I'm a Doctor and I have a drunk patient who abuses my mum, am I going to refuse to treat him & let him die? Of course not. Referees know what they're getting into when they get the job. If they can't handle it they should find another job!
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Excuse me but if i;m not mistaken, refs are supposed to be professionals and look past the insults of the fans. Why isn't a player allowed to make hand gestures to the crowd when they are insulting him? Why should the ref be given special treatment. If the ref has the balls to not give a penalty in the 92 he should be able to take a few insults. Lets get him a tissue so we can wipe the tears from his eyes. If the fans are throwing objects onto the pitch, then i understand stopping the game. But where is the safety issue in making fun of the ref. Maybe every fan should donate $1 to help pay for the refs psychologist.

You still didnt asnwer my question wouldnt you react if someone calls your mana a slut cause of a decision you made or not?

i did answer your question...as a human being of course i would be pissed off if someone insulted my mother, but as a ref i wouldnt abuse my power to stop a game and punish the team because my feelings were hurt. The refs job is to control the match and his only involvement with the fans should be if they are throwing things onto the pitch. The ref doesnt stop the game when the fans are insulting a player (antzas being ridiculed about his slut wife). So in my opinion the ref is abusing his power acting on his personal feelings outside the scope of his job.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a few questions and please excuse me if they sound really dumb bc i live in melb so im used to a normal ticketing system etc etc

1) Doesnt PAO offer a discount price to students and children? Here in Australia all students get a discount for any ticket they buy, where it be for a concert, movie, footy or soccer.

2) If I happened to be in Greece for aholiday and i wanted to see PAO at leoforos would I be able to get a ticket? Do i have to sign up to ticket club, then bring my passport etc. This sounds extremely idiotic and also concerning as how would PAE expect to bring in new fans - are they just relying on the kids of existing pao fans to be able to regenerate their fan base.

3) Can fans purchase memberships - ie season tickets - so you buy a membership at start of yr and this gets u into all games etc oor u have priority for tickets for important games, ie uefa cup and cup finals.

4) what is the crowd average so far? Was ticket club used last season? I hear ppl mention it was used a few yrs ago. If it was used afew yrs ago has pao always had it or did they get rid of it and then bring it in again.

5) How does olympiakos fair in this department?

1 - No - i think maybe the Pana8a kids club gets something........possibly.......its a failure too so who cares

2 - CORRECT FOR 50 EUROS you would have wasted going to a match (ok not always 50). You CAN NOT get a ticket without ticket club membership. If youre not a Greek citizen, you can still become a member but you will have to call, verify about a million times because its an unaccounted for as an ID # on the form you have to make a separate records for that in the already lazy system - any chance of guests or visitors in Greece's booming tourism industry (most are from europe, and everybody loves football, have definitly seen tourists at PAO games before as well, not that theyre too significant, but they count, hell to build a european following can only help, they may come to fuTure matches, they may waste some of there stupid british pounds in the guest shop........ but no.

3- Season tickets are likely the reason you see ANY people at the games i feel......yes there are season tickets, supposedly they did very well this year

4 - if i had to guess, 9-10,000 max.......but thats a rough GUESS.

5- F*** olympiakos and pireaus. Theyre really not important to how we guide our future or manage our club. but for the record id beleive theyre better, though they havent had 2 derbies and a home european match yet.....which makes it more sad.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Excuse me but if i;m not mistaken, refs are supposed to be professionals and look past the insults of the fans. Why isn't a player allowed to make hand gestures to the crowd when they are insulting him? Why should the ref be given special treatment. If the ref has the balls to not give a penalty in the 92 he should be able to take a few insults. Lets get him a tissue so we can wipe the tears from his eyes. If the fans are throwing objects onto the pitch, then i understand stopping the game. But where is the safety issue in making fun of the ref. Maybe every fan should donate $1 to help pay for the refs psychologist.

You still didnt asnwer my question wouldnt you react if someone calls your mana a slut cause of a decision you made or not?

Not when it comes with the job description! If I'm a Doctor and I have a drunk patient who abuses my mum, am I going to refuse to treat him & let him die? Of course not. Referees know what they're getting into when they get the job. If they can't handle it they should find another job!
yeah.......you are right.

I mean honestly, you work in front of thousands of sports fans, GUESS WHAT you might have to have some balls and ignore the name calling and chanting. Namecalling and chanting happens at every event since our ancient times even at theatres in ancient greece, hooliganism in the byzantine days over horse racing......

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The attendance figures at Leoforos are disappointing to read about. I was fortunate enough to visit Leoforos a few years ago on a trip to Greece. Unfortunately, it was during the summer and there were no games but I was allowed to go in the stadium and even managed to sneak down to the field and snag some grass. I still remember imagining and getting chills thinking about how this place could easily intimidate the top European sides while packed to capacity with passionate fans chanting and lighting flares. How tragic that this is not the case this season. The results are there, but the fans are not. I was planning a trip this season specifically to visit Leoforos for a match and see the Greek fans in action. Needless to say, my plans have been postponed.

I am a season ticket holder for D.C. United and from the estimated attendance figures posted by others above, D.C. United – a football club in the U.S. – is bringing in more fans. Our lowest home attendance for the season was 12,098. We still managed to pack in 18,000+ fans for a match scheduled at the same time as the home opener of the Washington Redskins. The Redskins are by far the best supported sports team in the Washington, D.C. area. Granted, D.C. United is the only football club in the Washington, D.C. area whereas PAO is one of the many clubs in Athens. Perhaps alerting the PAO management that a football club from America is outselling them will spur them into action.

One point about language at sporting events – it comes with the territory. To me, it is all about context. If a child hears profanity at a football match he/she is more likely to repeat it at a football match and not at the dinner table.

Someone earlier made the point about the Puritan mentality of American culture and I agree thoroughly. It is completely backwards. Apparently rotting corpses, dismembered bodies, and violent gunfights glorified on primetime network television do not merit the same condemnation and outcry that Janet Jackson’s nipple slip during a Super Bowl Halftime Show evoked. What hypocrisy! :tdown:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Paidia min treleneste.Ta pragmata einai apla.O kosmos tou PAO ehei varethei.Ego ta elega,na kanete epanastasi na dioxete ayton ton proedro.Pare Giannakopoulo...

Alla pou imoun,loipon ehoun perasei 11 hronia xirasias ektos apo mia kataigida pou efere vrohi .E meta apo 11 hronia litaneia kapoioi,merikoi,i kai polloi, hanoun kai ligo tin pisti tous kai stamatane na proseyhontai giati apogoiteyontai.

An o PAO kanei mia kali poreia stin Eyropi i einai 10 pontous mprosta to heimona pistevo oti tha lythei to thema,giati o kosmos xehnaei kai syghorei eykola.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

File mou I have to correct you on something... English fans do not chant like crazy. They are the worst fans I have ever seen (except for the Spanish who are also terrible), and I've seen fans from all over the world! They just sit there. Oute mporeis na tous singrinis me tous Ellines. I've seen them at NT level and also every Premiership club (except Derby) and they are all ridiculously bad. 200 Greek fans would outsing a stadium full of English supporters every time. The noise levels are low, they just sit down (no jumping, clapping, nothing), and visually they are rubbish. Trust me they are poor. The best fans in England are easily Portsmouth, followed by Liverpool, Spurs & Newcastle... and they are all MILES behind European fans, MILES!!!

This is true but somehow, you have to take into account the cultural aspect of it.

English fans don't have Ultras. Even the German have ultras group. We never had any.

We had the terrace culture, which created some legendary stands like the Kop in Anfield. The problem with the old terraces is that they were mostly occupied by the hooligan firms.

After the Heysel disaster, the clubs have increased the prices and pushed away the working class fans who were the "singing" lads.

This is changing slowly though. Middlesbrough is going to cut their prices to nearly 30% next season as they are losing (!) money when they play at home.

Now, if I may so, England away are the best fans ever. True, they are a bunch of yobs/hooligans/bullies that are hanging around with them but most of fans behave impeccably (they get too drunk for sure sometimes, haha).

You use England as an example yet, which ever club plays Tottenham (who are self-nicknamed "Yids", from the word Yiddish, i.e. Jewish) they carry out a "shhhhh" sound to represent the gas of the Holocaust. Arsenal fans have been heard chanting "You're scared of gas, you're scared of gas". Tottenham would respond with their own racist chants, whenever a black African player would get the ball the Spurs fans would chant "Where's your passport gone?". There's no swearing in these chants but I know I'd rather have my kid exposed to chants like "p******s gioi

This is rare... Come on! At the last London derby, I didn't hear any of these chants in the ground.

I'll tell you something else too, the only thing Greece has going for her in football is the atmosphere. We are a small country and have a smaller source to get players from, we can't spend as much as foreign clubs, etc. Yet no one likes coming to play in Greece, why? Hostile and uncomfortable atmospheres are needed in football and PAE's approach is killing the very soul of Greek football.

True, I must say.

I would also add that compared to the Olympic stadium and the Olympiakos stadium, the rest are really a bit of a joke which makes it even more unconfortable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now, if I may so, England away are the best fans ever.

:LOL: Sorry but that was funny.
Why?

170.000 in Germany for the last world cup. Who can do better than that?

Prem League clubs take as much as Greek clubs when their team plays in Europe.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now, if I may so, England away are the best fans ever.

:LOL: Sorry but that was funny.
Why?

170.000 in Germany for the last world cup. Who can do better than that?

Prem League clubs take as much as Greek clubs when their team plays in Europe.

Yes English clubs take as much, in fact they take more, but they only make a fraction of the noise. ;) Besides it's logical that English fans are more likely to travel... it's all a matter of economics. Britain is the richest country in Europe in terms of the individual's disposable income so of course they can afford to travel. That doesn't make them great away fans, that makes them mediocre fans that can afford to travel. :D

Here's a link of the Larissa fans against Blackburn:

Scroll down and see a Blackburn fan say:

"amazing fans . well played Larissa , your fans @ ewood park was amazing!! never seen anything like it! keep on bouncing monsters!!"

A great comment from a TRUE fan who displays sportsmanship, unlike some people I know that tried to undermine our clubs acheivements :( :P Anyway, he clearly says that he's never seen anything like it, hence, it is unparalled. Even by the travelling English fans you say are the best ever. :D

Anyway, we're shifting away from the subject. For arguments sake let's say you are correct and England had amazingly loud support, you agree that many working class fans have been priced out of matches. I for one don't condone this elitist system. If they want to ban hooliganism then jail terms should be introduced in Greece. No one is going to go to a game and start s%$#! if they face jail. But stopping people going to games in groups is stupid, it just kills the atmosphere.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes English clubs take as much, in fact they take more, but they only make a fraction of the noise.  ;)

I was talking about the national team, not clubs.

I tend to agree with you, Greek fans are one of the best in terms of Club football, if not the best.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

anyways other clubs/national teams not the issue (and sorry DUDE but our Ethniki fans have been pathetic after 2004)

another point to raise - we talk about demand for football being taboo in Greece due to swears and atmosphere - but this start to the superleague brought in record overall attendance the other week! When attendances are reaching highs, and our fans are non existent - THERE IS A PROBLEM with the club no???? On and off the field.

and mentioning the staidum experience as i did before:

Also I am offering an actual bounty

50 euros

to whoever punches the douchebag Leoforos DJ that changed our goalscoring song from playing the PAO anthem after every goal to "thats the way uh huh i like it" (the faggiest song ever, only lives for shitty US commericals) in the face. Attach photo of a job well done with address and ill send you fifty euros. bonus 10 if he changes the song back.

Maybe the people who dont get to go to games or dont go dont care, but as a fan being many times and in our CENTENNIAL year it is a TRADITION to play our ANTHEM after every goal. NOT stupid lame ass ###### thats just embarassing our image. PAO HYMNS, NATIONAL HYMNS, MAYBE FUNNY GREEK SONGS ONLY.

STUPID CRAP SONGS THAT ARE FOR TERRIBLE AMERICAN CAR COMMERCIALS = LAME, STUPID, UN-PAO.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also I am offering an actual bounty

50 euros

to whoever punches the douchebag Leoforos DJ that changed our goalscoring song from playing the PAO anthem after every goal to "thats the way uh huh i like it" (the faggiest song ever, only lives for shitty US commericals) in the face. Attach photo of a job well done with address and ill send you fifty euros. bonus 10 if he changes the song back.

Maybe the people who dont get to go to games or dont go dont care, but as a fan being many times and in our CENTENNIAL year it is a TRADITION to play our ANTHEM after every goal. NOT stupid lame ass ###### thats just embarassing our image. PAO HYMNS, NATIONAL HYMNS, MAYBE FUNNY GREEK SONGS ONLY.

STUPID CRAP SONGS THAT ARE FOR TERRIBLE AMERICAN CAR COMMERCIALS = LAME, STUPID, UN-PAO.

:LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: That was a good one :LOL: :LOL:
Link to comment
Share on other sites

its a legitimate concern crazy!

WHOSE stupid idea was that ???? play FUN music if you MUST change it...i remember at half time they usualy did a great job with songs, a couple years ago PAO - Proodeftiki (the weekend after OSFP copped 7-0 from Juve) it was all songs like Efta Fores Me gelases, Efta tragoudia 8a sou pw - and people laughed clapped along - and that makes a fun enviornment....

thats the way i like it kills the buzz of the goal......again, less people stupid music killing the goal scoring high, no gate 13 - NO ATMOSPHERE.

People dont go only for football. People go for ATMOSPHERE, to feel the excitement themselves. If it was only about the football, people wouldnt go to stadiums, they would sit and watch it on television where you would have the comfort of a couch, and a better view of whats happening and replays.....and its FREE.

But sadly, theyre selling tickets, not an experience. and thats why they cant keep a consistent fan base at matches. People will always love this team and club - in the hard times and the bad they will keep paying attention - its now the job to pull them in the stadium, and no idiot on PAE is cabable of even thiking progressively to make this club an addiction for its fans. Theyre total idiots- they have to get people at games NOW ---- get people excited NOW and the hype will grow and with a new stadium we could be looking at record average attendances for Greece .... but theres being nothing done except hiring incompetent ticket agents and opened another PAO shop...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

and mentioning the staidum experience as i did before:

Also I am offering an actual bounty

50 euros

to whoever punches the douchebag Leoforos DJ that changed our goalscoring song from playing the PAO anthem after every goal to "thats the way uh huh i like it" (the faggiest song ever, only lives for shitty US commericals) in the face. Attach photo of a job well done with address and ill send you fifty euros. bonus 10 if he changes the song back.

:LOL: :LOL:
Link to comment
Share on other sites

thats the way i like it kills the buzz of the goal......again, less people stupid music killing the goal scoring high, no gate 13 - NO ATMOSPHERE.

you decide whats more worthwhile and exciting:

(watch till the end to know what im talking about)

OR

http://youtube.com/watch?v=jNmkhd3RBew

or for Leoforos - THATS WHAT IT SHOULD BE LIKE

http://youtube.com/watch?v=hPzctiDiQ7M

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...