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ATTENDANCE IS DOWN- WHERE ARE THE FANS?


athinaios

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one thing that really bothers me is that there were so many empty seats!

What the hell is going on?

I know they don't make all that much from general admission tickets so they should drop the price to really low, because it's very important to have a filled stadium. It makes home feel like, well, HOME!

I'd say open the frigin gates after a point instead of having an empty stadium.... especially in a euro game!

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The problem Athinaios isnt the price of the tickets. its the fact that management chose to give the responsibility of selling tix to TicketClub which asks you to give ur full information and become a member in order to buy tickets. on top of that bro, u can only buy one ticket at a time and they dont sell group packages, therefore Gate 13 is pissed because they all want to go with the other ''organomeni'' to chant and sing and start flares etc.

I wish itll get settled soon because, in all honesty, Gate 13 at Leoforos in europe pretty much guarantees us two wins.

Aside from all that, I think pao did what we all expected them to do. DOMINATE. Sure they played against Artmedia, but lets not forget last year against Metalurgh Zaprosyia, where we look on the brink during the two legged affair.

Peseiro has the team playing with confidence and the ball on the ground.

i have yet to see a bad performance aside from the mediocre performance by both teams in the derby on openng day. Of course us having 7 plyaers out and Ndoye unfit, didnt help.

Things are looking good though. Keep it up boys.

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just a little question a bit off topic does gate 13 sit down???? it looks like they do on the replays of the goals........if so this is truely shocking to me

great win my hopes a re big for PAO this year i think we can make it very far in the cup

also ert need to get their s%$#! sorted no one watches those movies

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The problem Athinaios isnt the price of the tickets. its the fact that management chose to give the responsibility of selling tix to TicketClub which asks you to give ur full information and become a member in order to buy tickets. on top of that bro, u can only buy one ticket at a time and they dont sell group packages, therefore Gate 13 is pissed because they all want to go with the other ''organomeni'' to chant and sing and start flares etc.

I wish itll get settled soon because, in all honesty, Gate 13 at Leoforos in europe pretty much guarantees us two wins.

Aside from all that, I think pao did what we all expected them to do. DOMINATE. Sure they played against Artmedia, but lets not forget last year against Metalurgh Zaprosyia, where we look on the brink during the two legged affair.

I see, thanks. What a horrible way to sell tickets. Do other teams do the same?

And, yes, I agree with you about the rest. PAO seems to be on a good path now. But, I've seen this beginning before (though not recently...so maybe something has changed) only to be disappointed in the last decade. I hope that management/owner don't screw up and create a problem. This ticket situation is a good example of incompetence. Look, players, coach, and everybody else talks about the empty stands. Obviously it's a problem.

The game against PAOK should have filled the small Leoforos. It's a derby for godshakes.... Even today, fans should go to see their team beat a UEFA team and advance! Good reason, no?

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Dude if u ask me, i think its stupid to not show up to watch ur team play. I am i Montreal, so i have no way of going to Leoforos on a regular basis unless im in greece, but u have to support ur passion. For example i go to watch the Montreal Canadiens play at least 8 or 10 times a year, even though tickets are between 60 and 100$.

Passion cant be replaced with anything else, unless the people in question arent going for the team and are going for some personal egotistical reason. and vice versa.

Believe me if i had the chance, i would go to every game pao plays. not only at leoforos but every game where tickets are available.

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Dude if u ask me, i think its stupid to not show up to watch ur team play. I am i Montreal, so i have no way of going to Leoforos on a regular basis unless im in greece, but u have to support ur passion. For example i go to watch the Montreal Canadiens play at least 8 or 10 times a year, even though tickets are between 60 and 100$.

Passion cant be replaced with anything else, unless the people in question arent going for the team and are going for some personal egotistical reason. and vice versa.

Believe me if i had the chance, i would go to every game pao plays. not only at leoforos but every game where tickets are available.

:nw: :nw: :nw: :nw: :nw: :nw: :nw: :nw:

Thats all i say.

I totaly agree with you

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Dude if u ask me, i think its stupid to not show up to watch ur team play. I am i Montreal, so i have no way of going to Leoforos on a regular basis unless im in greece, but u have to support ur passion. For example i go to watch the Montreal Canadiens play at least 8 or 10 times a year, even though tickets are between 60 and 100$.

Passion cant be replaced with anything else, unless the people in question arent going for the team and are going for some personal egotistical reason. and vice versa.

Believe me if i had the chance, i would go to every game pao plays. not only at leoforos but every game where tickets are available.

I totally agree with you friend.It is the fact that people in Greece have the opportunity to go and support there team but for stupid reason(ticket price,dont like the coach,president ilithios,fun club no more friebies, for all teams not just Pao)chose not to go while us, the people away from Greece,we would pay a lot more just because of our passion and our love for our clubs.You never realize the value of something you have, untill is gone....As bar7 was saying,a couple of years back i had to pay $400 with a friend of mine to watch a CL game of OSFP from Sentanta in a bar and we had to outbid 5 british guys...f....k Florida....

On a different note congrats to Pao for a good win and a nice spanking. :tup: :gr:

PS.The reason gate13 is pissed is not because of the new system about one ticket at the time,is also the fact that there are not any more "friebies" to the bad boys. ;)

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Guys, hold on a second. Why price isn't a good reason not to go to a game????!!!

OK, for some people a sports team it's like attending church--a very important component in their way of life. They might not eat or spend on other necessities but they must buy that ticket.

But, com'on, people on a budget have to think about how much things cost. For some of you maybe there's no issue, but for many Greeks [have you checked their salaries?] it's not an easy life. Especially in Athens (with high rents, etc) life is very expensive.

It seems to me that football is also a marketable sport that has to compete with other sports and all sorts of entertainment. Not a nearly monopoly status they enjoyed in the past. Supply & demand [you guys live in a capitalist world, don't you?] and the quality of the product shape prices. Obviously, if you don't get enough customers into your shop, there's something wrong! Ain't it? :blink:

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The thign is athinaios is that no one is judging the quality of the team. i think its fair to say that the teams has improved as much as possible in just 4 months. i mean this is a completel mentality on the field. and he quality of football si up a notch.

the problem with everyone is the management. they have issues with some of their decisions and the fans, well, sum fans... are choosing to boycott leoforos.

but this is nothing new.

i think it was 5 years ago, pao played man u at leoforos in the champions league and we had 6700 fans. Agaisnt MAN U.

When we start winnign a few championships, then the fans will make it a regular thing.

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The reason the stands are so empty is that you need your taftotita to buy tixs now no more group tix and s%$#!. It is like England now and even there it had it's empty stands when they converted to this method. We will see empty stands for a bit but eventually it will get back to normal but without the hooliganism. Anyways great win good for Pap showing good form good on the whole team and a big FU to ERT for making me switch my morning s%$#! to night shift to see a black and white movie xeftila :nono:

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i dont want to stir s%$#! guys but trust me you do want to keep a bit of "hooliganism" (flares at least) or it will turn way too family orientated and people will start take their kids into gate 13 etc and the atmosphere will be ruined.

its like that for the A-league games, in the "chanting zones" people take thier kids. Its hard to get into a game, let loose, and chant when a family with little children are standing next to you.

when i went to oaka last year (return leg against PAOK, 3-1 win for us) i had to give ID, I thought that was normal and "hooligans" brought tickets in other gates and climbed into gate13 or gate 7 or whatever.

any way great win lets farking win this cup

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The reason the stands are so empty is that you need your taftotita to buy tixs now no more group tix and s%$#!. It is like England now and even there it had it's empty stands when they converted to this method. We will see empty stands for a bit but eventually it will get back to normal but without the hooliganism. Anyways great win good for Pap showing good form good on the whole team and a big FU to ERT for making me switch my morning s%$#! to night shift to see a black and white movie xeftila :nono:

You don't need a taftotita buy tickets in England.

PAE are a bunch of malakes!

ELEU8EPIA STOUS OPADOUS!!!

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i dont want to stir s%$#! guys but trust me you do want to keep a bit of "hooliganism" (flares at least) or it will turn way too family orientated and people will start take their kids into gate 13 etc and the atmosphere will be ruined.

its like that for the A-league games, in the "chanting zones" people take thier kids. Its hard to get into a game, let loose, and chant when a family with little children are standing next to you.

when i went to oaka last year (return leg against PAOK, 3-1 win for us) i had to give ID, I thought that was normal and "hooligans" brought tickets in other gates and climbed into gate13 or gate 7 or whatever.

any way great win lets farking win this cup

My friend,your explanation of why they should let some hooligans in,is the reason that most stadiums are empty.Who said you can not chant for your team or lose your voice and keep on singing for 3 hours.I remember i was just a kid when my gradfather took me to a game.You dont need the classic words,poutan.malak,kariol,manes pateres kai ta loipa to create a great atmosphere.Look in England,they sing like crazy,stadiums full and they have minimum violence....I witnessed something this summer when i went to Greece.I went to the OSFP fiesta and i was at gate 12 i think,a lot of normal people,some with kids and an old gentleman with his grandkids.At of nowhere a crazy mofo infront of me starts cursing and bitch and moan about kokkali and rivaldo,you f.. this,you bastard that and so on.The older gentleman told him if he could stop with the cursing since he had kids with him and the mofo told him to f..k off.30-40 people got up and told the mofo to get up and go to gate 7 or to shut up and let us enjoy the show.
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Crazy talks lots of sense! :tup:

People behave according to their own culture (environment & upbringing) and their own sense & sensibility (if they have any).

Those hooligans behave like animals because they can, are allowed, or nobody cares enough to do anything about it.

For me, being a rabid fan, and LIVING your team's game is NOT equal to being abusive, and a threat to others!

From a marketing perspective, people smarter than those in Greek football have realized that this sport is a commodity that if it is to flurish it will have to rely on the majority of fan-loving sports fans and not the minority--hooligans who have other needs than watching a game..... <_<

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i dont want to stir s%$#! guys but trust me you do want to keep a bit of "hooliganism" (flares at least) or it will turn way too family orientated and people will start take their kids into gate 13 etc and the atmosphere will be ruined.

its like that for the A-league games, in the "chanting zones" people take thier kids. Its hard to get into a game, let loose, and chant when a family with little children are standing next to you.

when i went to oaka last year (return leg against PAOK, 3-1 win for us) i had to give ID, I thought that was  normal and "hooligans" brought tickets in other gates and climbed into gate13 or gate 7 or whatever.

any way great win lets farking win this cup

My friend,your explanation of why they should let some hooligans in,is the reason that most stadiums are empty.Who said you can not chant for your team or lose your voice and keep on singing for 3 hours.I remember i was just a kid when my gradfather took me to a game.You dont need the classic words,poutan.malak,kariol,manes pateres kai ta loipa to create a great atmosphere.Look in England,they sing like crazy,stadiums full and they have minimum violence....I witnessed something this summer when i went to Greece.I went to the OSFP fiesta and i was at gate 12 i think,a lot of normal people,some with kids and an old gentleman with his grandkids.At of nowhere a crazy mofo infront of me starts cursing and bitch and moan about kokkali and rivaldo,you f.. this,you bastard that and so on.The older gentleman told him if he could stop with the cursing since he had kids with him and the mofo told him to f..k off.30-40 people got up and told the mofo to get up and go to gate 7 or to shut up and let us enjoy the show.
File mou I have to correct you on something... English fans do not chant like crazy. They are the worst fans I have ever seen (except for the Spanish who are also terrible), and I've seen fans from all over the world! They just sit there. Oute mporeis na tous singrinis me tous Ellines. I've seen them at NT level and also every Premiership club (except Derby) and they are all ridiculously bad. 200 Greek fans would outsing a stadium full of English supporters every time. The noise levels are low, they just sit down (no jumping, clapping, nothing), and visually they are rubbish. Trust me they are poor. The best fans in England are easily Portsmouth, followed by Liverpool, Spurs & Newcastle... and they are all MILES behind European fans, MILES!!!

As for the swearing sorry but I disagree, if a man wants to take his kids to a match and is worried about swearing he should sit in the family section and even then he runs the risk of hearing it. It's part of fan culture and always has been. You give England as an example, do you think it doesn't happen constantly at English games? When Liverpool played Milan in the 2nd final in Athens they were chanting "3-0 and you F***ed it up! 3-0 and you F***ed it up!" That's part of the culture.

You use England as an example yet, which ever club plays Tottenham (who are self-nicknamed "Yids", from the word Yiddish, i.e. Jewish) they carry out a "shhhhh" sound to represent the gas of the Holocaust. Arsenal fans have been heard chanting "You're scared of gas, you're scared of gas". Tottenham would respond with their own racist chants, whenever a black African player would get the ball the Spurs fans would chant "Where's your passport gone?". There's no swearing in these chants but I know I'd rather have my kid exposed to chants like "p******s gioi Olympiakoi/Panathinaikoi" than "You're scared of gas!". Racism is the poison that kids shouldn't be exposed to, if one doesn't want them exposed to swearing than he shouldn't take them to matches, don't let them watch TV and don't even let them mix with other school kids.

Swearing happens in all the stadiums around the world yet violence does not, proving that there isn't a correlation between hooligans and swearing.

Also, I don't think PAO_OR_DEATH has explained himself clearly, he isn't condoning violence, but a rowdy atmosphere, in other words what he likes is Ultras (not hooligans). Not all Ultras are hooligans but all Ultras swear, light flares, jump, clap, throw confetti, bang drums, etc. Hooligans meet up with other hooligans after the game and fight. It's very different. I also condone Ultras, while I don't belong to a thyra (as I live in England and have a love for all Greek teams) I would say that my style as a fan can only fit into the Ultras, I couldn't in an area where I stand to chant and everyone asks you to sit down, etc. I'd rather see the game at home. What PAE have done with their approach to selling tickets doesn't tackle hooliganism, it tackles the Ultras.

I'll tell you something else too, the only thing Greece has going for her in football is the atmosphere. We are a small country and have a smaller source to get players from, we can't spend as much as foreign clubs, etc. Yet no one likes coming to play in Greece, why? Hostile and uncomfortable atmospheres are needed in football and PAE's approach is killing the very soul of Greek football.

I like you alot and respect all your opinions Crazy, but here I have to strongly disagree...

ELEU8ERIA STOUS OPADOUS!

:gr:
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i dont want to stir s%$#! guys but trust me you do want to keep a bit of "hooliganism" (flares at least) or it will turn way too family orientated and people will start take their kids into gate 13 etc and the atmosphere will be ruined.

its like that for the A-league games, in the "chanting zones" people take thier kids. Its hard to get into a game, let loose, and chant when a family with little children are standing next to you.

when i went to oaka last year (return leg against PAOK, 3-1 win for us) i had to give ID, I thought that was

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i dont want to stir s%$#! guys but trust me you do want to keep a bit of "hooliganism" (flares at least) or it will turn way too family orientated and people will start take their kids into gate 13 etc and the atmosphere will be ruined.

its like that for the A-league games, in the "chanting zones" people take thier kids. Its hard to get into a game, let loose, and chant when a family with little children are standing next to you.

when i went to oaka last year (return leg against PAOK, 3-1 win for us) i had to give ID, I thought that was

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i dont want to stir s%$#! guys but trust me you do want to keep a bit of "hooliganism" (flares at least) or it will turn way too family orientated and people will start take their kids into gate 13 etc and the atmosphere will be ruined.

its like that for the A-league games, in the "chanting zones" people take thier kids. Its hard to get into a game, let loose, and chant when a family with little children are standing next to you.

when i went to oaka last year (return leg against PAOK, 3-1 win for us) i had to give ID, I thought that was  normal and "hooligans" brought tickets in other gates and climbed into gate13 or gate 7 or whatever.

any way great win lets farking win this cup

My friend,your explanation of why they should let some hooligans in,is the reason that most stadiums are empty.Who said you can not chant for your team or lose your voice and keep on singing for 3 hours.I remember i was just a kid when my gradfather took me to a game.You dont need the classic words,poutan.malak,kariol,manes pateres kai ta loipa to create a great atmosphere.Look in England,they sing like crazy,stadiums full and they have minimum violence....I witnessed something this summer when i went to Greece.I went to the OSFP fiesta and i was at gate 12 i think,a lot of normal people,some with kids and an old gentleman with his grandkids.At of nowhere a crazy mofo infront of me starts cursing and bitch and moan about kokkali and rivaldo,you f.. this,you bastard that and so on.The older gentleman told him if he could stop with the cursing since he had kids with him and the mofo told him to f..k off.30-40 people got up and told the mofo to get up and go to gate 7 or to shut up and let us enjoy the show.
File mou I have to correct you on something... English fans do not chant like crazy. They are the worst fans I have ever seen (except for the Spanish who are also terrible), and I've seen fans from all over the world! They just sit there. Oute mporeis na tous singrinis me tous Ellines. I've seen them at NT level and also every Premiership club (except Derby) and they are all ridiculously bad. 200 Greek fans would outsing a stadium full of English supporters every time. The noise levels are low, they just sit down (no jumping, clapping, nothing), and visually they are rubbish. Trust me they are poor. The best fans in England are easily Portsmouth, followed by Liverpool, Spurs & Newcastle... and they are all MILES behind European fans, MILES!!!

As for the swearing sorry but I disagree, if a man wants to take his kids to a match and is worried about swearing he should sit in the family section and even then he runs the risk of hearing it. It's part of fan culture and always has been. You give England as an example, do you think it doesn't happen constantly at English games? When Liverpool played Milan in the 2nd final in Athens they were chanting "3-0 and you F***ed it up! 3-0 and you F***ed it up!" That's part of the culture.

You use England as an example yet, which ever club plays Tottenham (who are self-nicknamed "Yids", from the word Yiddish, i.e. Jewish) they carry out a "shhhhh" sound to represent the gas of the Holocaust. Arsenal fans have been heard chanting "You're scared of gas, you're scared of gas". Tottenham would respond with their own racist chants, whenever a black African player would get the ball the Spurs fans would chant "Where's your passport gone?". There's no swearing in these chants but I know I'd rather have my kid exposed to chants like "p******s gioi Olympiakoi/Panathinaikoi" than "You're scared of gas!". Racism is the poison that kids shouldn't be exposed to, if one doesn't want them exposed to swearing than he shouldn't take them to matches, don't let them watch TV and don't even let them mix with other school kids.

Swearing happens in all the stadiums around the world yet violence does not, proving that there isn't a correlation between hooligans and swearing.

Also, I don't think PAO_OR_DEATH has explained himself clearly, he isn't condoning violence, but a rowdy atmosphere, in other words what he likes is Ultras (not hooligans). Not all Ultras are hooligans but all Ultras swear, light flares, jump, clap, throw confetti, bang drums, etc. Hooligans meet up with other hooligans after the game and fight. It's very different. I also condone Ultras, while I don't belong to a thyra (as I live in England and have a love for all Greek teams) I would say that my style as a fan can only fit into the Ultras, I couldn't in an area where I stand to chant and everyone asks you to sit down, etc. I'd rather see the game at home. What PAE have done with their approach to selling tickets doesn't tackle hooliganism, it tackles the Ultras.

I'll tell you something else too, the only thing Greece has going for her in football is the atmosphere. We are a small country and have a smaller source to get players from, we can't spend as much as foreign clubs, etc. Yet no one likes coming to play in Greece, why? Hostile and uncomfortable atmospheres are needed in football and PAE's approach is killing the very soul of Greek football.

I like you alot and respect all your opinions Crazy, but here I have to strongly disagree...

ELEU8ERIA STOUS OPADOUS!

:gr:
Mods:

I missed this conversation, anyway we can make a thread out of it and move the necesary posts over? Ill go ahead and start the topic, you guys move the posts? deal? :tup: [DONE, MOVED on 3-0ct]

As for the reasons behind the stadium not filling there are many and id really like to discuss it, I hope really to get a job in Marketing and with PAO (in fantasy land, where PAE will actually hire the right people and invest in its marketing ops, if I was less intelligent and more incompetent I feel id have a job there by now :LOL: )

Swearing is not a big deal to be honest. thats for western cultures like America, Canada maybe UK they make a big deal out of it......I hate it when people gasp and scream "theres kids around" when I swear...really? is it my responsibility to make sure your kid doesnt swear and you impose it on the world??? I should change my behaviour because your kid is near me? Who deems whats appropriate?

In a stadium swearing is totally acceptable.....often i see kids and their dads swear together- honestly what difference does it make, its bad words - not ideas. I swear since I was Seven years old....you learn appropriate scenarios for swearing and not swearing on your own.

Anybody who cited swearing as a reason fans dont go is out of touch with culture in Greece and around sports. Thats about it.

I totally agree with you two. WHo the hell cares if someone swears at a game....where is our freedom of speech. What i don't understand and find extremely disgusting is when the ref stops the game because the fans are making fun of his mother or calling him crooked. The ref can F*** up a whole game with a bad call and he expects the fans to sit quiet and not voice any anger.

Yes racism should not be tolerated but forcing someone to not use certain words is bullshit. I have been to baseball games in the USA and have had security threaten to escort me out of the stadium if i didnt restrain myself because of the language i used. When you're at a game emotions run high...you cant expect people to not act human.

And from all the sporting events i have been to (hockey games up against the glass banging every time the opposing team is smacked up against the wall) the fans motivate the team to perform often above their own abilities.

I totally agree with you two. WHo the hell cares if someone swears at a game....where is our freedom of speech.

You speak of freedom of speach?

Happen to know that the freedon of one individual ends where the freedom of another begins? Why shouldnt people who have kids not go to games only because you want to swear? Independant of the fact that in most situations and areas (even at school kids hear people swearing) i dont think that someone must be oblidged to accept the language you use just to be able to watch a life game.

As to the fact about the refs?

Let me ask you a question. How would you react if someone disagrees with you about a decision you made and calls your mother a p******? If you now tell me that you wouldnt react (probably even with pure violence) then you would lie since most greeks dont accept anyone call their mothers a slut. The most greeks may someone accept them calling m#$%! but thats about it. Even though i dont like the refs in greece myself i would not insult their mothers.

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ok guys i live in a country were a vocal effort of 200 fans is concidered rowdy behaviour, At my first PAO game i was amazed and totally blown at the vocal power produced by gates 2,3,5 (i think they were "gate 13") THIS ATMOSPHERE MUST STAY IN GREECE, i believe it gives our teams in europe a massive advantage.

i meant ultras but i said hooligans, sorry about that. In my "country" ultras would be considered hooligans. We have the most dull fans in the world....rugby does this to a nation.....

the comment i made on kids at games was the fact that for my local a-league team there is no "family zone" and they infest the one area we have people whilling to"chant". I just find it hard to use that frowned apon C word infront of a little kid and their parents.

I dont agree with fighting after the game but i can see how easily that stuff can errupt. There are violent people everywhere and if they want to fight they will find somewhere to do it, at football games seems to be a choice for some. They are no different to people who fight at protests, or in bars etc

The pride and passion some people have for their team is pretty intense and as TSOGLANI mentioned greeks are a pretty red blooded race of people.

any way what i was tryin to say was that greece and greeks do not want the ultras to vanish, a true part of greek culture would be lost.

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Well, you guys make good points, and of course I understand that going to watch a sports game (well, not golf or tennis) most people would behave much differently than going to the church. No problem. I too like the "hot" atmosphere, but I don't like when anyone is threatened (or worse) physically.

In the end, I believe, it'll be what the "consumers" want. For a product to exist it must have customers who ultimately determine what kind of atmosphere prevails in a stadium.

Do you think Greeks are becoming less of gladiators in the arena????... Why?

By the way, I just read this:

To...

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You speak of freedom of speach?

Happen to know that the freedon of one individual ends where the freedom of another begins? Why shouldnt people who have kids not go to games only because you want to swear?

Wait who said parents had to stop taking their kids to games because of swearing???

Swearing is a stupid parental myth. Ive been swearing since Ive been 7 yrs old in English and Greek. Now Im a godamn success story (ok maybe not yet!) :tup:

Go to Greece, go to the matches. There are plenty of kids, kids mascots, programs for kids. People still swear, some kids even swear with their dads its so cute! And the kids are normal! They dont grow up to be wierd, or disturbed

You have to realize - it makes no difference, those kids will still learn when those words are appropriate because THEIR PARENTS make sure of it. In the West they want the whole world to adapt around for their kids without them doing a half-assed job of parenting.

I mean heres something out of whack - in conservative america where swearing is hush, nudity is hush, you have kids going whacko and shooting eachother

In Greece where swears and nudity are everywhere you see a lot more NORMAL kids. Granted there are likely other reasons for the American whacko-kids but the point is, swearing, nudity censorship REALLY MAKES NO DIFFERENCE IN ANYTHING when concerning children. Its self regulated.

Anyways point is, swearing in the stadium is NOT an issue in why the stadium is not filling up. A lot of the people that DO go are with kids anyways!

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i dont want to stir s%$#! guys but trust me you do want to keep a bit of "hooliganism" (flares at least) or it will turn way too family orientated and people will start take their kids into gate 13 etc and the atmosphere will be ruined.

its like that for the A-league games, in the "chanting zones" people take thier kids. Its hard to get into a game, let loose, and chant when a family with little children are standing next to you.

when i went to oaka last year (return leg against PAOK, 3-1 win for us) i had to give ID, I thought that was

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Excuse me but if i;m not mistaken, refs are supposed to be professionals and look past the insults of the fans. Why isn't a player allowed to make hand gestures to the crowd when they are insulting him? Why should the ref be given special treatment. If the ref has the balls to not give a penalty in the 92 he should be able to take a few insults. Lets get him a tissue so we can wipe the tears from his eyes. If the fans are throwing objects onto the pitch, then i understand stopping the game. But where is the safety issue in making fun of the ref. Maybe every fan should donate $1 to help pay for the refs psychologist.

:LOL: :LOL: :tup:
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and as for the family aspect of the game.....lets not kid ourselves....when the weather gets cold or its rains the families are in their living room watching the game. the so called "alites" who curse during the game are there everytime their team plays and they are the ones who travel to other stadiums to cheer on their team. The families with the little kids are there only when they have nothing better to do

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and as for the family aspect of the game.....lets not kid ourselves....when the weather gets cold or its rains the families are in their living room watching the game. the so called "alites" who curse during the game are there everytime their team plays and they are the ones who travel to other stadiums to cheer on their team. The families with the little kids are there only when they have nothing better to do

:tup: :tup:
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