Klaous

They can prove that on Sunday.

Yes, those AEKtzides are really angels, aren't they? Don't you tell me that AEK has no Hooligans. Greece is full of imbeciles, AEK is no exception to that. Based on your logic clubs like Xanthi should win the championship since the bigger clubs all have idiots in their stands.

Yes, you are absolutely right about that. PAOK needs to improve its security measurements regardless of what will be the final punishment. If we don't learn from our mistakes we are destined to repeat them. Since Savvidis plans to build a new stadium, he should consider to build a foolproof stadium.

The decision will be taken in a different court. I am not sure about the decision making process there but if I am not mistaken we will face several judges this time, not just one. The judge from the last time will not take part in this. Those are the names of all possible judges: Δημήτρης Σκουτέρης, Βλάχος Φώτης, Γεωργουλιά Κωνσταντίνα, Δεμέστιχας Κωνσταντίνος, Κουμούτσου Ευδοκία. Especially Skouteris has an interesting past... http://www.sdna.gr/podosfairo/dikastikes-apofaseis/article/351808/skandala-prokliseis-kai-sti-mesi-o-skoyteris-tis http://www.metrosport.gr/article/pote-ke-giati-ekviasan-ton-dikasti-pou-tha-krini-tin-efesi Anyway, PAOK's main argument will be that since the game never started, PAOK cannot be punished for game suspension, meaning in other words that we cannot be punished with a point deduction, only with a monetary fine. Η στρατηγική της ΠΑΕ ΠΑΟΚ, σ’ αυτή τη διαδικασία θα στοχεύσει κυρίως στο νομικό κομμάτι της υπόθεσης. Στο να αναδείξει ότι δεν γίνεται η μη διεξαγωγή να τιμωρείται το ίδιο με την διακοπή ενός αγώνα. http://www.metrosport.gr/article/apetisi-gia-kathari-ekdikasi According to article 21 paragraph 3 of the ΚΑΠ (page 55-56) cases in which the game has not even started yet are not mentioned. This is indeed a loophole, since the law is obiously not clear on that. Only the following cases are actually mentioned by the law: "Αγώνας που δεν τελέστηκε ή που δεν έληξε με υπαιτιότητα της μιας εκ των δύο ομάδων" However, one could argue that since the match could not start, it could not end as well. Therefore, I see our chances at 50/50 (yes, I am optimistic) that the point deduction will be dropped. But it can go either way.

Thank you for understanding my points. If AEK wins the championship, so be it. But regardless of that, this punishment is ridiculous and Olympiakos should definetely not get away with this. In regards to the 15 minutes in which Garcia was not seen by the doctor... well, the lawyers pointed that out, but out of all the answers and questions the judge could have responded with, she only answered in disbelief saying she did not expect that to hear. I mean, c'mon, I am not a conspiracy theorist, but a neutral judge would have at least to consider this and question what the hell Olympiakos did in that time in the changing rooms. An actual injured person would need medical attention right now, not after waiting 15 minutes in pain because his own team denied the doctor the entry. But the judge did not care about this at all, it seems. Only in Greece things like that are possible. And only in Greece a judge won't question this and instead punish the others without hesitation. This is the actual problem in all of this. Olympiakos being able to do whatever they want. Punish us? Well, then punish them too!

So you think Savvidis is copying the monopoly Olympiakos had for the past decades? We will see in the next years if that will be the case because right now PAOK is not getting any special treatment. 7 ghost games, 3 point deduction last year, 3 point deduction in this year, several situations were PAOK has not get a penalty etc. pp. Yeah, of course we got favored with some calls sometimes, but not constantly and with the same αλητεία Olympiakos got them in the last several years. Right now, Savvidis is not the Χαλίφης in Greece, although a lot of Athenians are trying to frame him as one. Instead, he is fighting the ones who are the actual χαλίφηδες, just to name a few of those criminals we are talking about. I wonder when and if they will get punished for all of their criminal actions in the last decades. PAOK needs to be punished, but Olympiakos can "rule the land" and get away with everything they did? I disagree with this argumentation. If there is one club that needs the heaviest possible punishment, it is the one located in Peiraia. This is the club that made Greek football a mess. This is the club that had a monopoly on Greek football for 20 years. This is the club Marinakis (mis-)used to cash in several millions for his personal benefit.

PAOK fans are protesting in the center of Thessaloniki as well as in Edessa, Katerini, Kozani and Veria. http://www.metrosport.gr/article/live-to-megalo-sillalitirio-tou-paok-stin-kamara http://www.metrosport.gr/article/opadi-tou-paok-sta-grafia-tou-siriza-se-veria-edessa-ke-kozani http://www.metrosport.gr/article/opadi-tou-paok-sto-dimarchio-katerinis-pic Some 300-400 fans are also blocking the motorways around Saloniki according to Metropolis 95.5. I like that. Civil disobedience and unviolent protests are the only legitimate way to hurt this pathetic state. All motorways in Northern Greece should get blocked in order to further damage the Greek economy and put pressure on Greek politics. I for one have enough with the arrogance coming from Athens. They want war and they can have it! Since Olympiakos took this issue to the courts in the first place and still demands a further 6 point deduction this is no longer about football anymore. http://www.metrosport.gr/article/nea-proklisi-olimpiakou-zitai-extra-6 Olympiakos really thinks that they are "ruling this land", aren't they? Well, I say it is time to challenge that! Make this a political issue or nothing will change in this 3rd world country!

It is up to the referee to abandon the game, this decision cannot be taken by any club. This is the major difference between last year and this year. Have you heard a PAOK official saying into the camera that he will take his team and leave while the trainer was still checked by the doctor? Has PAOK denied the doctor entry for 15 minutes? Has the match report stated that PAOK just left? Those are the actual facts and difference. And if the second instance has some sense and applies the laws as they should, the 3 point deduction will be decleared void. No club on this world can just take the team and leave on its own, while the other club gets the maximum punishment because of a referee that has lost the control over the situation completely. In a nutshell, PAOK left in an orderly manner. Regarding how things turned out this time, it is highly questionable if Olympiakos left orderly as well.

I do not care what your καφενείο thinks is morally right, I care about what exactly the law says. If a guy was officially there and the object thrown at him injured him as well it is only a monetary fine. In case the game was suspendend orderly then the punishment will be a 3 point deduction. You can even read it for yourself, why do I need to explain that to you? Furthermore, do you actually call it an orderly suspenion when a team just decides to leave the stadium? Do you call it orderly when a referee has no clue what is going on and needs over 4 hours to write the match report? Do you call it orderly when there was not even a single announcement made that the game will be suspended? No, it was definetely not orderly managed by Aretopoulos. Somehow the game got suspended because Olympiakos simply just left. The match report backs that up. Do I need to post the match report again now? It is only after 5 days that Aretopoulos changed his mind and stated that he suspended the game orderly. And only on that basis PAOK got punished with the 3 point deduction. If you think this is according to law, well okay then, but I think differently. If the law is applied right, PAOK must be punished with a monetary fine only since Aretopoulos and Olympiakos obviously did not stick to the regularities which the law demands. But since it is Greece, regularities do not count for some people and clubs, making them able to do whatever they want while others get the highest possible punishment. This is what someone would call arbitrary justice.

Wrong, you should read the law precisely. A club will not simply get punished with -3 because someone was hit by paper roll on the head. The person needs to be an official, the person needs to be injured by the object that was thrown at him (how do we know he did not injure himself in the 15 minutes where Olympiakos denied the doctor to see him?), and most importantly, the game must have been suspended orderly. However, Olympiakos just left the stadium. The match report said nothing about an orderly game suspension. Only if the game was supended orderly three points can be deducted from PAOK on a legitimate basis. PAOK has every right to object to this punishment and I see a chance here that the 3 point deduction will be declared inadmissible because of irregularities commited by Aretopoulos and Olympiakos. Εάν από την ρίψη αντικειμένων υπάρξει σωματική βλάβη προσώπου νόμιμα ευρισκομένου στον αγωνιστικό χώρο, τιμωρείται με χρηματική ποινή από έξι χιλιάδες ευρώ (6.000) έως ογδόντα χιλιάδων ευρώ (80.000). Στην περίπτωση που υπάρξει οριστική διακοπή του αγώνα, επιπρόσθετα επιβάλλεται κατακύρωση του αγώνα υπέρ της αντίπαλης ομάδας και αφαίρεση τριών (3) βαθμών από το βαθμολογικό πίνακα και ποινή διεξαγωγής αγώνα χωρίς θεατές δύο (2) έως τρείς (3) αγωνιστικές.

No, actually the law counts for officials only. If Garcia was not decleared an official in time then he is simply not an official. However, Aretopoulos saved Olympiakos by saying that he corrected Olympiakos mistake.

Olympiakos has such a bad team that I cannot see how they are going to qualify for the Champions League through the second place. And I also not believe that they will be in second place at the end. This place is already reserved for AEK hehe.

The situation is almost similar, there are some differences though. 1.) Ivic went straight to the doctor of the match. Olympiakos denied the doctor for 15 minutes to enter the changing rooms and see Garcia. 2.) Savvas said straight into the cameras that he will take his team and go while it was not even clear what actually hit Garcia and if whether or not he was really hurt. No PAOK official said this during the time Ivic was examined by the doctor. 3.) Ivic went to a public hospital while Garcia went to a private hospital. 4.) Aretopoulos did not write anything in the match report about game suspension. Because of that the judge invited him to the court where he changed his statement and said that he suspended the match. Basically, he saved Olympiakos and his own ass with this. Those differences will be the reason why PAOK will try to change the punishment in second instance.

Yes, he's an Olympiakos player. Btw, the only sympathetic person they have in their team.

File jvc, Greece is as much a backwards balkanic country as its neighbours. The only difference is that Greece got awarded the EU-membership because it got rid of its dictatorship and adopted democracy while its northern neigbours were communist. Albania, and Ex-Yugoslavian Republics could not benefit from EU-membership and had suffered from Communism for decades, while Greece had 30 years to become a modern developed state within the EU. What has Greece done to use this beneficial position to its advantage and develop a strong and stable economy in the Balkans? They wasted all of their money, they throw their beneficial position away and now Greece is the laughing-stock of Europe, a lickspittle and colony of its creditors. Excuse me for this political discussion in a Sports forum. I cannot restrain myself.

1. Μολών λαβέ 2. Ι for one have no problem with joining the Bulgarian league. Hell, make Makedonia an independent state, we most certainly have no need of this indebted joke of a country called Greece.

Ο Ιβάν Σαββίδης, όπως έχει γίνει γνωστό, επέλεξε να παραμείνει στη Θεσσαλονίκη και ήδη έχει ξεκινήσει να συζητάει γύρω από την αντίδραση του μετά την τιμωρία της ομάδας από την Πρωτοβάθμια Πειθαρχική Επιτροπή της Λίγκας. Αφού κλείσει ο κύκλος των επαφών, ενδεχομένως, να υπάρξει μια τοποθέτηση του ιδιοκτήτη της «ασπρόμαυρης» ΠΑΕ, ενώ θα καθοριστεί και η γενικότερη στρατηγική του ΠΑΟΚ γύρω από το συγκεκριμένο θέμα. Υπάρχουν αρκετές σκέψεις και μία εξ αυτών είναι η απόσυρση της χορηγίας από την Σούπερ Λίγκα, θέμα που επίσης είχε θίξει κι ο Γιώργος Σαββίδης προτού γίνει γνωστή η απόφαση της Πρωτοβάθμιας Πειθαρχικής Επιτροπής. Το να αποσυρθεί μια χορηγία, που έχει υπογραφεί για δύο χρόνια, δεν είναι ούτε εύκολη υπόθεση, ενώ θα πρέπει να υπάρξει και σχετική ενημέρωση και απόφαση από το Διοικητικό Συμβούλιο της «Σουρωτής ΑΕ», που θα συνεδριάσει σχετικά. http://www.gazzetta.gr/football/superleague/article/1205924/efesi-prota-meta-i-horigia-tis-ligkas Savvidis will probably terminate the sponsorship of his company ΣΟΥΡΩΤΗ with the Soupa League. I think that is the only consequent decision. If Savvidis club gets punished for a roll paper, then I see no reason why the Soupa League should get any further money from Savvidis. Btw, wouldn't it be funny if we ask the Bulgarian football federation for permission to play in their first league? Oh and considering UEFA... they already ranked us as third place and gave Olympiakos their 3 points back. http://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/association=gre/domesticleague/index.html Now I get why some of you guys are afraid that Olympiakos might be spared. If that actually happens on Friday, all jokes aside, Savvidis should seriously consider to apply for the Bulgarian football association.

Actually, if you see it from a common good perspective, Greek taxpayers should not have to finance some private football clubs just because they have a lot of fans and powerful presidents. Whether it is PAO, AEK, PAOK or any other big club in Greece. But since Greece is not able to learn from the past, it will not recover and keep being a country full of debts and mismanagement. Άξιοι της μοίρας σας is all I have to say to everyone living in Greece.

I do not care anymore if whether or not we will win the championship. Just show them on the field who the better team is, that is all I want.

Guys, do not talk about scenarios where we have to give AEK the match. Olympiakos will not get the three points back. I know that Greece is a corrupt shithole, but this scenario is just impossible. I think it is much more likely that we get the three points back, but I doubt even that.

So basically Greek tax payers will have to pay for your debts? If this is actually the case then Greece is indeed a third world country that deserves everything that happend in the last 10 years of crisis.

ΠΑΕ ΠΑΟΚ: «Βάσει των αναφερομένων στο από 25/2/2018 Φύλλο Αγώνα, το οποίο σας γνωστοποιήθηκε κατ’ άρθρο 15 του Κανονισμού Αγώνων Ποδοσφαίρου (Κ.Α.Π.), και στην από 25/2/2018 Έκθεση Παρατηρητή Αγώνα, και στην υπ΄ αριθμ. πρωτ. 3592/18/410733 από 27-02-2018 αναφορά συμβάντων της Αστυνομίας, σε συνδυασμό και με τον οπτικοακουστικό υλικό φορέα εγγραφής εικόνας και ήχου (DVD), στον οποίο αποτυπώνεται ο επίμαχος ποδοσφαιρικός αγώνας»: Για τη συμπεριφορά των φιλάθλων της: «ΑΠΟΦΑΙΝΕΤΑΙ ότι ο ποδοσφαιρικός αγώνας μεταξύ των ομάδων Π.Α.Ε. ΠΑΟΚ και Π.Α.Ε. ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΟΣ, ο οποίος είχε προαγραμματισθεί να διεξαχθεί την 25.02.2018, στην Θεσσαλονίκη, στο γήπεδο «ΤΟΥΜΠΑΣ», στο πλαίσιο της 23ης αγωνιστικής ημέρας των αγώνων του πρωταθλήματος «Super League Ελλάδα» της αγωνιστικής περιόδου 2017-2018, δεν τελέστηκε από υπαιτιότητα της Π.Α.Ε. ΠΑΟΚ. ΚΑΤΑΚΥΡΩΝΕΙ τον μη τελεσθέντα αγώνα με τέρματα 0-3 υπέρ της Π.Α.Ε. ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΟΣ, και τιμωρεί με αφαίρεση τριών (3) βαθμών από τον βαθμολογικό πίνακα της τρέχουσας αγωνιστικής περιόδου την εγκαλουμένη Π.Α.Ε. ΠΑΟΚ . ΕΠΙΒΑΛΛΕΙ στην Π.Α.Ε. ΠΑΟΚ τη χρηματική ποινή των τριάντα χιλιάδων (30.000,00) ευρώ και πειθαρχική ποινή διεξαγωγής δύο (2) αγώνων χωρίς θεατές». Huh... at least they will not deduct 2 points from us in the next season. But maybe Metrosport just forgot to mention it, I don't know. http://www.metrosport.gr/article/ektakto-anakinothike-skandalodis-timoria-3-gia-paok We will be able to try our luck in second instance, but I would not count on it.

Let's face it. It is very likely that the -3 will cost us the championship. Of course we could hope that the match PAOK Olympiakos will be replayed... but I do not believe it. I also do not believe that AEK will lose 5 points while we win all of our games. It is possible though, but I do not like to rely on others to win something. I think the only team that could possible draw with AEK is Panathinaikos right now. If AEK loses against us and draws against them, then we are again in the pole position for the championship. However, we would still have to beat Panathinaikos in Leoforos. I cannot even remember the last time we won there. In other words, we would rely on Panathinaikos playing hostile towards AEK and friendly with us. If we would win the championship because of Panathinaikos that would be really amazing. Savvidis should continue to loan out some paid players to them as a thank you. Hell, pay them parts of their debts if you like to. But I still doubt that this whole scenario is going to happen. Alafouzos is still a snake, and our relations with Panathinaikos are not the best.

Savvidis should loan out some players to Tripoli next season. Maybe then we can win there.

We played today without an εξάρι, what did we expect? And no, I do not blame Lucescu alone, I blame Savvidis for sending away Kace who is 10 times better than this trash player Canias. Lucescu...? We are not Barcelona to play against Tripoli without an εξάρι, our midfield got trashed today.