teke817

I don't know about Alafouzos involvement with SDNA, and I would like to see some direct evidence to support that claim. I'm not doubting you, but I just like to see where that comes from. I do know it was founded by Papatheodoriou, the former editor of Gazetta.gr -- and admittedly a former columnist at "PRASINOS" -- but he had a very ugly divorce from that paper and has been ripped by the most ardent PAO fan/fan sites from the time he went to Gazetta until now. When it was founded it was billed as a co-operative of various journalists from across Greece where columns would be syndicated on other sites. Many of the PAOK columns are written by guys like Stavros Kolkas (from PAOK24) so I don't see any anti-PAOK bias, nor do I see any pro-Panathinaikos slant. However, it is definitely very very critical of OSFP, the EPO and KED. As far as the anti-Arnesen article, the main criticism was pretty much exactly what every other publication have since reported, basically, he overpaid for certain guys that seem ill-suited for the PAOK we want to build (i.e., Olsen, Rodrigues, etc.) and it cost him his job. I don't agree with the decision, but some points are valid if true. If we paid 250,000 euros to Rodrigues agents (as opposed to the traditional 7-10% commission) to avoid him going to AEK, then I think that's a valid criticism. Personally, I think SDNA and Gazetta are generally the best sports sites in Greece in contrast to sites like Sport24 who are the most pro-OSFP.

I couldn't agree more. I'm fine with 4th, 5th or even 10th place, if the objective is to be in 1st place in two or three years. New coach, 10 new players, and a rash of injuries and you are still in 5th place in the league and in the final 4 in the Cup ... so why the panic button?? It reeks of incompetence, impatience and arrogance. I would rather he just hand the reigns to his son George if Ivan is going to be such a reactionary.

Sorry, SDNA.gr ... my bad ...

Yeah, what a f-ing joke. You can't turnover your coaching staff and/or front office every 8 months. Ivan's lack of patience is the one thing I dislike most about him. This was his reputation at Rostov too ... The article on SDNA.gr yesterday just blasted Arnesen and I understand many of the points raised, but it's not nearly enough to damn his whole project imho ...

I never liked him. It's either the Panagia or the players who affect outcomes, never Anastasiadis himself. Give me a break.

Can anyone blame him? Management went from Arnesen-Aggelidis with clearly defined roles to start the season, to a group of 5 guys with overlapping (or just ambiguous) duties. This is all on Savvidis and his micro-managing. Give Arnesen a clearly defined budget and get out of the f-ing way.

paok24 reporting that we will not be making any transfers today. I'm unclear why its necessary to buyout Costa with 6 months left in the season. Everyone admits our CB's are short and it hurts us on set pieces. I know Hatzisaia is probably going into the mix right away, but still, that means it's him and Malezas as the only 6' tall central defenders. With injuries, suspensions, etc., it's clear you need to carry 5 solid players at the position anyway. Glad it appears Tudor is staying put for now. We need continuity. We have started 19 different lineups this season because of injuries, suspensions, etc. You can't add that many players, have the second youngest team in the league, and shuffle the lineup that frequently and expect to build a cohesive unit in 30-35 games.

Interesting column on inpaok.com today about Kace's disappearance the last few games ... Although they say it has nothing at all to do with rejecting our contract offers, I can't help but think it has a little bit to play in the decision, if you think Charisis and Cimirot are going to be your midfield anchors next season, why not play them more?

@pash It's tough to keep good players if teams from the top-5 leagues show interest. If Lazio want Kace we have zero chance and it's hard to argue. Arnesen valued him at E4 mill earlier this year so I say deal him! If we are being 100% honest, I don't think he gets much better. He is at or near his ceiling. Undersized for his position and not a great north-south passer nor does he have particularly good field vision. His strengths are set pieces, his motor, and the ability to cut passing lanes. Those can be replaced. @Blackhawk I agree that Cimirot is a "better" player, but he is more creator and less defender. The ability to see open spaces, hold and advance the ball upfield are way tougher to find than what Kace brings. He needs to play. Tziolis > Sabo and arguably our most "important" player this season. I think a Tziolis-Charisis-Cimirot/Pelkas midfield trio is our best option. Pelkas has gotten praise from Berba, Tudor, Arnesen and Pacienca at Setubal. He has talent but lacks consistency. He is young with <50 games of top flight football. Patience is important, admittedly a trait not found in our DNA as PAOK fans.

You really can't compare Holland to Greece. It's 17 million people vs. 10 million, a wealthier population, wealthier teams, and superb stadiums that attract even casual fans. Greece has 11 cities with more than 100,000 people. Netherlands has 25. The Amsterdam metro area (Amsterdam-Rotterdam-Utrecht) is like 7 million people. Athens metro area is 4 million. That's why you see those attendance figures for the top 5 ... At the same time, it's embarrassing that we can have teams in the top division with 80-year old 1500 seat stadiums. They wouldn't meet the criteria to host a UEL or UCL game. It's an idea that's been floated to the EPO before, but the SL would be well served by having 12-teams (max) in the top flight (like Belgium), encouraging consolidation of clubs from provincial areas, and requiring some minimum standards for stadiums. It would vastly improve the quality and competitiveness of the league. Oh and get rid of the ridiculous playoff. The SL has one of, if not THE longest season of any of the top 15 leagues in Europe. I think it's why our teams get smoked in UEL. Too little time for rest and pre-season camps for the 4th and 5th place teams. PAOK will be playing European or league games from July '15 to June '16.

It's starting to sound like we are going to lose Kace. He just rejected another offer and Lazio is sniffing around again ... I'm starting to think it would be smart to just cash in on his value. Charisis (if he can stay healthy) has nearly the same attributes. Throw in Cimirot (not exactly the same skill set), an improving Sabo, an intriguing Antonis, etc., I no longer see it is the great loss I would have back in June.

I think his first step off the line is very slow ... If he doesn't read the flight of the ball instantly (no easy feat) he's already a half-step behind and needs all of his size/reach to recover. It's probably why so many saves that should be routine look ... dramatic. Glykos is a steadier presence imho ...

most of the fan sites keep reporting that PAOK sources say the roster is set and there won't be anymore additions. Skondras and Tzavellas have proven they are serviceable (sometimes pretty good) so that gives us 5 CB's which should be enough ... also, I hope Tudor learned his lesson and no longer considers Tziolis an option at CB. Ever. Twente reported that Katsikas tore his ACL in practice yesterday. Out for 6-9 months. It's a shame because he started 3 out of 4 games for them ... I hope he comes back stronger and earns his spot back.

Too bad Rajkovic (assuming he actually signs) won't be eligible for UEL. It will be good to spell guys like Costa (or bench him - whatever) and Malezas for league/cup games and save them for UEL. I'm really starting to wonder what the rotation will be like, because Skondras has played well at both CB and RB and deserves playing time. Really, Tzavellas has as well ... Malezas had a very good year last year and I watched the OSFP-Panetolikos game this past January and Malezas was the best defender on the field and pretty much owned Mitroglou. I have very high hopes for his production. Things are getting very very interesting.

I read somewhere that they put Berbatov on the UEL list - prospectively - while he was still in Birmingham negotiating a contract. Now that is ballsy. Agree the league prestige goes up a bit with Essien, Cambiasso, Berbatov and Buoannanotte - the first 3 are in the twilight of their careers - although still very very productive. The nice thing about Berbatov is the skills that made him great do not diminish with age, i.e, excellent ball control, short passing and insane finishing. It's just stamina and fitness that will determine how productive he will be ... He has not played in 4 months so I doubt we can expect more than 20-25 good minutes out of him for a while ... Also, objectively speaking, I still think Rivaldo is the "biggest" name to ever come to Greece (yeah, it hurt a bit to give OSFP credit). When you score like 100 goals for Barcelona and add another 40 for Brazil, you're a pretty good player.

@BostonThanatos - Where was it stated publicly that PAOK had a transfer budget of ?20+ million? I understand feeling some disappointment, but "big picture" I think you should be more optimistic ... -We got into the UEL group stage (with relative ease) with a patchwork roster which is a huge accomplishment under the circumstances. Just ask PAO. -Young guys like Kitsiou and Konstadinidis have flourished with the new system and in high pressure situations. A kid like Mystakidis has come out of nowhere, and been productive. -We had an aging roster for the last 3 seasons and now we are one of the youngest teams in the SL. -Some of the young guys we brought in are "unknown" to us perhaps, but are not considered "cheap nobodies" in the scouting world. We beat out Celtic (among other clubs) who were hot after Cimirot, who at 22 has 2 caps on a Bosnia NT that is absolutely stacked with quality midfielders (who are the property of some heavy hitting European clubs). Antonis was almost a Chelsea and Everton player but for an injury/etc. Leovac was arguably the best player against PAS and looks like the real deal (albeit 1 game); Remember Holebas was a 26 y.o. nobody when OSFP brought him into the fold and now he is a LB mainstay on the NT and still a hot property at 30. Jairo/Rodrigues are still question marks but young enough where they could still turn out to be stars. I can't explain Olsen. Personally, I thought Glykos did not deserve to lose his starting spot after returning from injury last year. People overlook him because he doesn't have that quintessential GK size. If he ends up our #1 and Olsen is just a tall backup we develop, that's fine. GK is a totally different position than any other because it is a mental game as much as anything ... Guys go from stud to dud in a matter of weeks all the time. Ask Iker Casillas, Diego Lopez, every Arsenal GK last season, etc. Honestly, if this season is all about installing a system, developing and/or grooming a core group of players for the future, figuring out who has the ability and who does not, adding/subtracting further in January and next summer, then I don't care where we finish as long as we build a squad that is a legitimate competitor for the next 3-5 years. Even if I have to wait until 2016/17 I want this project done RIGHT. As PAOK fans we always think a huge win means we have finally arrived and a bad loss means we are garbage.

@BostonThanatos - Where was it stated publicly that PAOK had a transfer budget of ?20+ million? I understand feeling some disappointment, but "big picture" I think you should be pleased. -We got into the UEL group stage (with relative ease) with a patchwork roster which is a huge accomplishment under the circumstances. Just ask PAO. -Young guys like Kitsiou and Konstadinidis have flourished with the new system and in high pressure situations. A kid like Mystakidis has come out of nowhere and been productive. -We had an aging roster for the last 3 seasons and now we are one of the youngest teams in the SL. -Some of the young guys we brought in are "unknown" to us perhaps, but are not considered "cheap nobodies" in the scouting world. We beat out Celtic (among other clubs) who were hot after Cimirot, who at 22 has 2 caps on a Bosnia NT that is absolutely stacked with quality midfielders (who are the property of some heavy hitting European clubs). Antonis was almost a Chelsea and Everton player but for an injury/etc.

Here is a list of unattached strikers (who knows how complete it is): http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/spieler/vertragslosespieler/statistik/1/plus/?ausrichtung=Sturm&spielerposition_id=14&land_id=alle&wettbewerb_id=alle&seit=2015&yt0=Show Pretty slim pickings but I would at least entertain: Lekic-Uche (both played a decent amount of games in La Liga last season) or Kitambala (pretty full season in Belgium) None of those three were prolific scorers by any means in 14/15, but they played at a high level. Higher than the SL anyway. p.s. Jairo did not earn himself any points against PAS ... Very poor showing both tactically and emotionally.

I'm reading that we are no longer actively seeking a transfer but will pick up an out-of-contract player instead (deadline for that is September 11) for the ST/CF position. I'm thinking a Vukic type who can play 15-20 productive minutes per game max. I get Samaras failed a medical, but man, that could have been a nice fit if we gave him a month or so to rehab. He is just 30, there has to be gas in that tank. I mean ... the NY Cosmos??? US soccer's second division??? My biggest fear -- once the corrupt KED characters realize Klaus is our only striker, he will start seeing yellow cards like there is no tomorrow, and thus see suspensions for key games. That or he will be getting flat out mugged in the box with no calls, teams will start to take liberties with him, and he gets another injury. I hate being reactionary so I will wait until 9/11 to judge, but for once, I am seriously worried ...

I'm sorry I have no idea why my post came up in Quaduple-copy ... I don't even know how to delete! I will go sit in a corner for the rest of the day. :bangin: @pash - thanks for cleaning up my mess.

Pereyra to Qabala is like a Bizarro World of our usual strategy, which is poach an opponents player AFTER we have played a team in the UEL, not BEFORE. I still think Pereyra is good, but better Qabala than AEK or PAO. Cyprus perfect for Koulouris ... Better than B' Ethniki and far away from the Greek SL politics. He is too young and PAOK fans are far too fickle to risk his psyche with their knee-jerk-reactionary-stalking-outside-the-parking-lot-craziness. @paokara - 100% agree with your take on Marica. He will be a perfectly good rental player for one season and fills a need.

@bananas - i have a friend who runs a youth academy in western Makedonia. A bunch of his kids have ended up with PAOK's U12 U15 etc., and he brought up ACE and their shadiness with Fortounis. The rest I heard on Metropolis radio 95,5 a few weeks back. I'm not too worried about Tzandaris. I don't think his ceiling is very high. Like a Stamou+ ... Same with Qiose. Big kid, but a lot like Katsikas. Although I hope he does well at Twente.

This will be a great topic to re-visit in two years to see which of the young guys have taken that step up in quality ... I bet before the 2017/18 season we consider someone from the group of Cimirot/Pelka/Charisis/Jairo an indispensable player we could not imagine being outside the starting XI. I hope it turns out to be one of the young Greek players. We are in the midst of a (generational) changing of the guard on the NT and I would love to see a PAOK player being considered a burgeoning (or arrived) star on the Ethniki at WC 2018.

They WILL NOT start negotiating Kace's extension until September 1st. His contract with his current management agency expires August 31st (ACE Mgmt) We refuse to deal with them (or let them earn a commission) because they have been acting as Olympiakos proxies for the last couple of years ... After we had verbally agreed with Fortounis a couple of years ago, once we faxed over the contract, the agent went straight to Olympiakos and used it to get more money. Fortounis was never going to come here -- we were completely used to get better wages for his client. They represent Tzandaris and basically brains washed him into thinking his value was far greater and steered him to OSFP -- now he is relegated to permanent loanee-status for OSFP satellite clubs. ACE represents a TON of current and former OSFP players (Manolas, Maniatis, Bouchalakis, Fetfa, Kyriakos, etc) I applaud the PAE's (Ivan's) stance in this circumstance. @Bananas / @pash - I agree it's time for Koulouris to cut his teeth at PAOK or get loaned to a SL club where he will get serious playing time at this level. Personally, I think he is (talented) but too raw for our expectations this season. I can see his career trajectory being similar to Klaous/Mitroglou. Both of those guys benefited greatly from being loaned out and refining their skills and football IQ at ages 20/21/22. Boaki I think was an investment in the future with the loan acting as a trial period. Notice that Finbogasson/VanWolfswinkle/Rudnevs/Toivonen are all in the exact same mold. Not speedsters, not great dribblers, but guys who can find gaps, receive the ball and shoot, and also have a decent aerial presence. That's truly the player they want alongside Klaous for the next year or two until Koulouris (or a guy in the Boaki mold) can be ready to take over as a primary ST-CF type.