La Mendel

Thats the stuff guys, we must go back to our successful system.

He should play rather for a top club in a fairly good league (Portugal, Scotland, Netherlands, perhaps Turkey). Celtic was such a club. It would be a suicidal move for him to return to the Super League.

I hope he will play for a team like Sporting or Celtic again. He could play then in the CL.

I hope not. These youngsters suck.

The 2001 team when Rehhagel took over was bad. He had to build a new team around key players like Zagorakis, implement a new tactics, etc. Ranieri took over a very good team (second round in 2012 and 2014) with efficient tactics and he changed it within two or three months into a bag of s%$#!.

You can criticize Rehhagel or anybody for that matter, but then you shouldnt deliberately and constantly use incorrect facts and arguments (Rehhagel & Santos didnt care about the future, we played disconnected football, we were the laughing stock of the world, old and unusable footballers always were in the starting 11, Karagounis - not even Katsouranis - is a monster and a villain, outdated match tactics vs defence for Ranieris lost games - injuries! - and the indefensible production of the team, laudations of "talents" etc. etc.) as most of you does. Papastathopoulos was in 2008 too young and inexperienced, but Im not sure of that, because he is a very capable football player and developed quickly, perhaps he could have been included in the squad. Tavlaridis could have been even better, he played then for Saint-Etienne, was in great form, he was overlooked by Rehhagel, unfortunately. Ninis wouldnt have been of use, he was two (or for that matter, four) years later still mediocre. Yes, at Euro 2008 we wernt successful (although I must add the referees have stolen the goal of Charisteas against Russia - we wouldnt have been out so quickly with a draw), otherwise the team wasnt booed by "the world" as you say but by incompetent English-speaking commentators and similar "professionals". Greece was abused (f. e.) before WC 2014, they announced we are garbage & will be out after the group stage etc. etc.

Santos and Rehhagel probably would have made a better match tactics (defense + counterattacks + set-pieces). There always are some injured players, against Ivory Coast we soon lost Kone and Karnezis, Katsouranis wasnt available, Mitroglou was out of form after he was injured for long, Siovas was left out of the squad because of injury etc. etc. No, we didnt sit back against Finland in the second half, that was the problem, Finnish attacks could have been easily parried if we would have used our former tactics. In this case we would have won the match with that goal of Karelis. It was painful to watch that a lesser team Finland is now dominated us in the first ten minutes of the second half. If Santos or Rehhagel would have been in charge, I think Finland would have never equalized. Dunga wins most of the matches they play ("cf. with the "those tactics arent effective" cant), I think his tactics and overall approach are very good. The extremely defensive style is my favorite brand of football. It is the most economical method, combined with dangerous counterattacks, because it cost less energy and yet keeps the enemy side on edge with the counterattacks.

Giannakopoulos wasnt in his prime then but he got only a couple of minutes at Euro 2008; he missed the net against Turkey, and thats why he shouldnt been called up in the squad? (cf. "Rehhagel called up [...] a player who missed the net from 6 yards out") Everybody can miss, Messi missed great chances; Nikopolidis was horrible vs Sweden and Russia; Dellas was simply unlucky (as was for example Terry with that penalty in the CL final), he wasnt past it entirely (later, between 2010 and 2012 he played very well for AEK, just as Tavlaridis now for PAO); there were players who were over 30, even so they were our best choices. Even the younger Salpingidis and Samaras wasnt so smart in 2008, Ninis, Mitroglou and Papastathopoulos was still unexperienced, who should have been played by Rehhagel instead of Dellas, Basinas, Karagounis and the likes?; after our "outrageously conservative" head coaches we had a coach who "had a vision" and "cared about the future" (as you said about the idiotic tinkerman on the old forum), talented youngsters, less conservative tactics, with disastrous results. The whole post could be dismantled so, some valid points and a lot of eloquently presented nonsense.

Sifakis made a complete mess of the free-kick (before the third German goal). Unfortunately he came out too late and then missed the ball. The main responsibility lies with him and not with Papadopoulos (or Maniatis).

Uninteresting harangues, endless bashing of great players and coaches (see for example above that about Rehhagel), baseless laudations of players who almost never excelled, startling "explanations" (tries to pin the third German goal on Maniatis) etc. etc. I can see your preference for him.

Most of his posts are bullshit you know.

Giannakopoulos practically didnt play at all at Euro 2008. We have seen Ninis against Argentina, he didnt show much (nor did he two years later). Perhaps Tachtsidis is similar to Tziolis, Maniatis is a better player than Samaris and Tachtsidis. A Katsouranis type player would have been preferable against Faroe Islands, too. To be fair, I must add I think there were problems with our match tactics too.

Petsos can be useful but I have the feeling he could be just another (and perhaps lesser) version of Tachtsidis. However, even so he could be of some use for us. Our problem is quite another matter: our tactics should be based on defending (and counterattacks). Our best players are probably our central defenders (Manolas, Papastathopoulos, K. Papadopoulos etc.), we have real depth on the team only at central defense (we have 3-4 outstanding centre backs, and another 5-6 decent players - Siovas, Moras, Vyntra, Avraam, Tavlaridis, Malezas). That means, we should find midfielders and attackers who can help this defensive strategy, midfielders who arent afraid of doing the dirty work and are able to intercept passes, attackers who track back regularly and perform a role in our defending as well (it is good if they are somewhat physical). Players like Maniatis or even Tziolis are therefore of more use in our national team than the likes of Ninis, Mantalos, Kolovos, Fetfatzidis, Fountas or Fortounis. If the latter midfielders were outstanding, it would be rewarding to give them more playing time than they got under Santos or Rehhagel, but they arent. I think they arent so solid as for example Samaras or Katsouranis, none of them had 3-4 excellent matches in a row (compare the production of Fortounis vs Poland at Euro 2012 in the ~25 minutes he got, and his performance some days later against the Czech Republic - he wasnt so threatening then although he was in the starting eleven and was subbed out only in the 70th minute). Our success depends, to a large extent, on the successful defense, and that means players like Samaras, Salpingidis or even Kone can be more dangerous weapons in our attacking arsenal because they can be usable while defending. Of course this doesnt rule every less physical attacking midfielder and/or attacker out, but they must be really good to secure a place in the starting eleven. For example Stelios Giannakopoulos wasnt so tall and strong as Charisteas or even Salpingidis, but he excelled in the Champions League while playing for Olympiakos and then in the Premier League, allegedly more physical championship than most of the top tiers in Europe, he was undoubtedly our most successful player in the first tier in England. Greek footballers of this type should be as good as he was and then it would make sense to have them on the pitch.

And even they were better than the alternatives against FI.

Especially talented midfielders?

He hadnt a good season but he can do better than that, in the 2013-14 season he played rather well as far as I remember. I would be good if he would regularly play for some Serie A team.

The following conclusions can be drawn: 1. We must go back to our "Defending First" system. 2. We must find (in fact, in some of the cases recall) players who can usefully contribute to our production, also players who work hard and arent afraid of struggling and fighting. I mean players like Maniatis, K. Papadopoulos, Samaras, Tzavellas, Tziolis, and possibly Katsouranis and Salpingidis. 3. The younger and "talented" players can be used too, but only as a cog in this system, I mean they can undoubtedly perform certain roles in our team (we have seen that in the World Cup - for example Kone was arguably our best midfielder then, Samaris scored against Ivory Coast etc. etc.), but now they cant play first fiddle. 4. We should seek wingers who can play a part in our defending too. Santos gave in fact much chances to Ninis (Euro 2012...), but he couldnt perform well (he was among our worst performers in the first half against Poland/Germany). Fetfatzidis too was used by Santos, and he had good performances (two goals against Malta in 2011, production against Canada, his performance against Portugal just before the World Cup), but he couldnt manage to play well three or more times in a row. Eventually Salpingidis got his place back. We should find players like him and Samaras (the latter is only 30) or recall Samaras. These new guys who we say lately playing on the wings (Kolovos Fountas Gianniotas) are players like Fetfatzidis or Fortounis. 5. We should get a coach like Michel.

I was wrong, I wanted to say of course: unless we want more problems against Romania, NI & Co.

Mantzios, Kapetanos and Dimitris Papadopoulos were in better form in the last x weeks than any of our attackers (except possibly Mitroglou) but I dont think they will be called up by the head coach.

Our chances are now infinitesimal. It is distressing that for the time being Markari?n seems not to understand (yet) the necessity of us concentrating on defending first of all. I think that was mainly the cause of our recent losses. Even against Poland we didnt concentrate on defense, only we had three defensive-minded players on the pitch (Tziolis, Katsouranis, Tachtsidis). We could have won that match I think with less invested energy, if we would have been concentrating on defense and counterattacks. So we needed performances of high quality (by Katsouranis, Kapino and Moras, to a lesser extent by Tziolis, Vyntra and Tavlaridis) to secure the draw. We must go back to our former system unless we dont want more problems against Romania, NI & Co.

Are you still there? The evil Katsouranis is to blame? Katsouranis didnt play in the Faroe matches, man. Your favorites, Samaris, Ninis, Fetfatzidis, Stafylidis and Kolovos were there. Worst results of all time, and some people are bashing still one of our greatest midfielders.

I would have chosen Karagounis, Katsouranis & Tziolis over Ninis, Fountas and Kolovos.

Disastrous result against Faroe Islands again, we are practically out now, I guess.

Great post, although I doubt they will understand it.

It is very embarrassing. The youngsters are worth s%$#!, and the older players will be even older in 2018. Perhaps we could try to keep some of the latters (Karnezis, Papastathopoulos, Maniatis, Samaras, Torosidis etc.) and to seek other players (Galitsios? Marinos? Petsos? I dont even have an idea.)?