La Mendel

He was OK versus Costa Rica, against Hungary he blocked a dangerous shot.

We would have to beat Faroe with all players from the starting 11 injured.

Quite so. We had injury problems before the Hungary match too (Mitroglou, Maniatis, Samaras, Holebas). Yet the team played far better than under the idiot whenever.

The Katsouranis-Pirlo comparison was (not only) at first farcical, but the statistics altered the case somewhat I'd say. This doesnt mean that Katsouranis is the same quality as player as Pirlo, only that their contribution to their respective national teams was in some ways similar. Santos did look to the future. Many younger players were built in during his 4-years term (Karnezis, Manolas, Siovas, Tzavellas, K. Papadopoulos, Samaris, Kone, Christodoulopoulos, Fortounis, Fetfatzidis, Mitroglou etc.). In fact the team which we have seen at the WC would have been able to continue its successful production, but for the famous idiot who didnt understand Greek football at all (it is mainly his fault that we have only 2 points now, Santos would have won most matches if he stayed stayed, and if a coach like Markari?n would have been chosen by EPO, we'd have at least 10-11 points now). There were only 4-5 older players in the whole squad and 2 in the starting lineup, you cant say Santos didnt look to the future. In fact, he was very successful during his tenure AND meanwhile he did choose younger players and build them into the team too. Only Karagounis (who was used after Euro 2012 mostly as a super sub - at least he and Katsouranis were rarely together on the pitch), Katsouranis (see above), Gekas, Salpingidis, Vyntra and Moras were over 30 from the squad if I remember correctly. Players like Karnezis, Manolas, Papastathopoulos, Maniatis, Samaris, Kone, Fetfatzidis, Mitroglou could play (if their form wont fall) for 4-6 years yet, they are people of the future as of the present as well. As for the above-mentioned older players, Karagounis was used as a super sub, Gekas was the sub of Mitroglou, Vyntra and Moras didnt play a single minute at the WC. Only Katsouranis and Salpingidis should have been replaced with Samaris and Fetfatzidis, they could have been possibly used as subs. Santos did his job very well. His successor had one job: he should continue his work and develop it (replace Katsouranis in the starting line-up with Samaris, give the younger players - Tachtsidis, K. Papadopoulos and Fortounis - more chance etc.). Ranieri failed horribly: bad choices for the squad and for the starting 11 too (Mavrias, who practically didnt play for Sunderland at all in the current season, the 23-y-old "talented" Mantalos from the second league, Diamantakos, perhaps because of his goals in the summer?, Athanasiadis was always a mediocre player, Skondras, Kolovos, Klonaridis etc.), atrocious production, worst results in the last 20 years. Its incomprehensible that people go on bashing one of our best coaches (the other was Rehhagel) while they overlook what did one F***head in a couple of months after Santos' departure.

He could be useful now IMO, against the Faroe Islands together with Mitroglou (thank God he is healthy now, last weekend he actually scored against Panionios). Christotoulopoulos didnt played well against Hungary, and Athanasiadis was horrible.

I only read on the old forum, the next day after I made an account there with the same name it was shut down.

SammyPAOK had often right on the old forum as I remember, but he asserted his opinion perhaps with too much vehemence. (Where is he anyway?)

Or with those subs? (I wrote "for the Katsouranis/Samaras haters"... :smartass: )

Starting lineup for the Katsouranis/Samaras etc. haters: Kapino - Bakakis, Tasoulis, Triantafyllopoulos, Stafylidis - Klonaridis, Mantalos, Kolovos - Mavrias, Aravidis, Vellios. On the bench: Lamprou, Skondras, Bouchalakis, Dimoutsos, Dinas, Koutsianikoulis, Diamantakos.

I still cant understand that there are Samaras haters. Thats like when some people in 2010 and 2011 wanted Karagounis to retire.

Samaras' production was not always outstanding, but he was nearly always solid and he played very well in major tournaments against Russia, Nigeria or Ivory Coast. He played a pivotal role in our advancing to the second round at the Euro and the WC. In the previous years he was nearly the only option for our left wing I think (Ninis and Fetfatzidis are right wingers, their rival was between 2008 and 2014 Salpingidis and not Samaras ). Even now I dont see who could replace him, in time - read after years - it will be probably Christodoulopoulos, we have not so many talented left wingers. The contribution of Ninis in 2012 was IMO insignificant (he was subbed after the first half against Germany and Poland for a production which was bad enough), and he was mediocre against Argentina too (at the WC 2010).

A dozen of Champions League/Europa League games (that is, playing for Olympiakos/PAOK/Panathinaikos), 2-3 season in the strongest leagues in Europe (Germany, England etc.) will give you some experience on the highest level, it doesnt have to be the Ethniki. The head coaches probably thought similarly - some players were capped after they were successful in a league stronger than the Super League. I think Katsouranis should be used as a sub like Karagounis after Euro 2012, mainly because of his age. His experience in this level (six major tournaments, Champions League games for AEK, Panathinaikos etc. etc.) is a strong asset.

I maintain my earlier statement that he shouldnt be included in the squad now even if he were healthy. He has no experience at this level (national team). I saw what he is capable for against Romania and the Faroe Islands for example. It is possible that he could be later a useful option in the national team, but nothing guarantees it, he is immature right now. (Same goes for Kolovos, Mavrias, Athanasiadis, Diamantakos, Dinas etc. etc.) Last season he had only 6 goals and 2 assists for Skoda Xanthi, probably he wouldnt better now if he would play for a top flight club (the second division is considerably bad, even in England or Spain, let alone in Greece - no offense intended).

OK, Giannoulis doesnt perform this year so well than last season, perhaps he shouldnt be capped right now. Petsos is another matter I think, if he is good enough for Rapid Wien he could easily play for a lesser German Bundesliga club as Hoffenheim of Freiburg too (perhaps then he would be included in the Greek squad). Maniatis is one of our best midfielders, he does much of the dirty work and was (as I remember) almost always solid. I thought Katidis a huge loss when he got that lifelong ban, but since then he practically had no success neither abroad nor while playing for Greek teams.

Thx for the greeting, Reaper.

Mantalos is an average footballer. If he would be top talent he wouldnt play in the 2nd division (even if for AEK) at 23, he would be somewhere abroad or would play for Olympiakos. I think he could be the symbol of the whole Ranieri era (worst production and results, inexplicable line-ups - Mantalos, Athanasiadis, Mavrias -, immature and/or crap players in the squad - Diamantakos, Skondras, Mantalos, Bakakis, Dinas, Klonaridis, Kolovos, Mavrias etc. etc.) We have already players of this type - Fortounis, Fetfatzidis, first of all. Hope he will never be capped again under Markari?n. Petsos plays regularly for Rapid Wien this year, they are second now. He was called up once by Santos, but since then if I remember correctly he was never in the squad, perhaps because Austrian Bundesliga isnt so strong. I can fancy him as a backup defensive midfielder, he would be usable (we havent too much outstanding midfielders, I think he isnt worse than most of them, except Maniatis, Kone, Samaris and perhaps Tachtsidis). Giannoulis was called up by Santos too, but then he was inexperienced, now he has more experience, IMO he could be an option for left-back too (I consider him - or Petsos for that matter - rather as a player who should perhaps called up, tested etc., not as a standard member of the team), because we arent so good with fullbacks now, Holebas isnt exactly world-class, he was at times a nightmare before 2014 World Cup (and after), the others who are available (Tzavellas, Spyropoulos, Karabelas, Stafylidis) are not outstanding players, most of them had problems this year (Spyropoulos was even sacked from PAOK a little while ago).

We should consider perhaps Giannoulis, Petsos and Konstantopoulos as a backup keeper. And no Mantalos please.

Karnezis Torosidis, Manolas, Papastathopoulos, Holebas Kone, Maniatis, K. Papadopoulos Fetfatzidis, Mitroglou, Samaras could be the best solution now (if everybody is healthy and Holebas wants to play for Greece). On the bench/in the squad: Kapino, Konstantopuolos (or Glykos if he plays), Moras, Tzavellas, Giannoulis, Vyntra, Siovas, Stafylidis, Tachtsidis, Samaris, Tziolis, Fortounis, Christodoulopoulos, Petsos, Katsouranis, Salpingidis, Karelis, D. Papadopoulos.