King_Katsouranis

What her motives are is irrelevant. Perhaps instead of all the backslapping a simple clause to make the referendum result binding would have been sufficient. However, it wasn't there and that is a problem that Brexiters have to live with. Remember laws are created in parliament, not in pamphlets or on the side of buses. Why doesn't May prepare a simple bill to give the PM the authority to trigger Article 50. I have no idea why people are annoyed with an independent judiciary. Perhaps if May followed the correct legal process this hiccup wouldn't exist. Ah the wonderful democracy point. The Treaty of Rome from 1957 is the beginning of freedom of movement so to speak. So surely the UKIPers who campaigned on anti-immigration platforms are the anti-democratic ones, as there was a referendum in 1975. So they should have accepted the result at the time and shutup? It's not my problem that Brexiters made undeliverable promises and have resorted to using Proseco to move the case forward. Quite the climb-down from David Davis and the German free trade deal "within minutes". "They won't let us leave". No come up with a credible plan instead that is deliverable.

Hold on a second. Wasn't the point of the UK leaving for UK parliament to have sovereignty? Gina Miller launched a legal challenge on the basis of the crown not being able to take away rights enshrined in statute. If you thought the EU was unaccountable, how is an unelected PM using centuries old royal prerogative any better? How is that better for the people? Parliament should vote to leave the EU and be done with the issue. But it wouldn't be the first time a Brexiter is misinformed. Terrific, you're citing sources that all decided judicial independence should be done with. Those three rags are worthless. Every person in this country has links to Europe considering we are in Europe. Perhaps instead of finding links to Europe, people should focus on the integrity and professionalism of these legal professionals, and understand the legal precedents involved. Or the unelected PM should've just gone through parliament in the first place. When has it ever been the case a PM can just overturn statute? What is the plan by the way? Is it BoJo telling Italians they will lose the ability to sell proseco in the UK? Oh it's a secret. No it's not that either, the leaked memo gave away there is no plan.

His acceptance speech was really graceful, and he wants to unify the US. That is a really good start from a logical point of view, however it is a softening of his pre-election rhetoric. The softening is not a bad thing. Running a country is very different to running a business deal. But you can see the parallels already in Trump's early statements and actions. He promised a lot to appeal to a certain part of the electorate, that was just his starting point to close the deal (winning the election). Then he tends to renegotiate from a position of strength = his policies/words not inline with his rhetoric. For the sake of the world Trump needs to be a success. I just hope he has more of a plan than the UK's brexiters. Nearly six months later, no tangible plan, just a bunch of buffoons contradicting themselves and running into brick wall after brick wall.

GOOOOAALLLL

K Paps is a moron for grabbing the ref

Ok that's fair enough. But genuinely, I think both spectrums of opinions are just as forceful on the other side... But, there is a larger majority of conservatives, so it is apparently fair game. Even if the narrative is boring, hypocritical and a load of crap.

Can I ask what your beef with liberals is? You come across as having a a view that all liberals are all horrible individuals. If you think the people protesting the election result are liberals you are thoroughly deluded. These people are professional left-wingers hiding under the liberal banner. In fact the way the platform Trump promoted himself on can be perceived as a liberal platform. Especially since he decided he wanted to ensure the peoples of the inner cities were not forgotten, and were empowered economically. I suppose however, parts of his economic policy were not liberal at all and massively protectionist, something generally associated with the far left, rather than the traditionally conservative view of free markets.

Sure re zero hour contracts, the thing is it is going to get worse and worse for the average Brit. I can understand the discontent at the EU as a eurosceptic, but the UK government is not going make things better for the average Brit post Brexit (if it happens). I agree with you regarding the bankers, but at this point the city is probably the best export this country has. If that goes, the tax revenues lost by HMRC are going to be significant. The answer to that is to regulate to a better and transparent standard, ironically Barnier tried to do that and the city told them to go do one... Indeed, Germany, CH, Scandinavian nations all have higher wages and better competitiveness than the UK does. The reason for this is productivity, the UK is nowhere near as competitive. This will continue as long as property/rent remains the biggest overhead for a business, the incentive becomes to move into smaller space for British businesses. Whereas in the other countries they work on getting more out of labour and systems to support extra productivity. Reducing wage costs is an easy sell to this current bunch of Tory muppets to get more competitive (even though it will largely do nothing but piss people off). I agree with the ref result, by not triggering article 50 on June 24 Cameron effectively kicked Brexit into the preservation box.

That is interesting re the Euro but it's insignificant. the GBP/USD pair is a better indicator, and so are currency baskets. All lower than the GBP/EUR low over the last five years. We indeed do have a remainer PM, in fact in three years time we will probably see that the UK are still in the EU.

The good news keeps flying in, despite the

It's like you're hellbent on making things up as you go along. "Besides like I said earlier the EU doesn't do democracy and has a history of ignoring referendums and the UK government has no desire to leave which is why they haven't triggered article 50 of the Lisbon treaty." Most of the ignored referendums were at a national level, but again more rubbish to forward your misinformed agenda. I already showed you the EU's democracy, but you still can't make a relevant counter argument. Re article 50 you're spot on. On another note the delusional people here are in for a rude shock. WTO (likely default position of UK) will pretty much mean no tariffs on German cars into the UK. I'm sure that is a great negotiating position for the UK, when the Germans can laugh off the negotiations knowing their default position is strong.

David Cameron f##### a pig went flying under the table at the BBC. For such a left wing organisation you thought they would have made a big deal, but they didn't. It didn't stop Dimbleby having the terms of the debate dictated to him by Boris Johnson did it? I think you will find with Jo Cox there are mixed reports, and he gave his name in court to "Britain First... death to the traitors", gives credence to the reports that he did indeed should Britain first. The Conservative Party's official position was neutral. What David Cameron adopted was not the official party position, which is why he let is cabinet campaign openly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum,_2016#Party_policies In Financial terms of the budget the UK is a net contributor. However, when accounting for the benefits through things like service passporting approximately

Have you even ever been to the UK? How do you know what these people are voting for? Every election in the last 30 years has been won by the side the Sun has endorsed, they were simply doing as the Sun said. These people voted for a Brexit because they are fed up with the UK's transition to a service economy, and the consequences that come with them. Voting for a Brexit is stupidity, Nisan one of the biggest employer in Sunderland is considering pulling out. I see things are so much better out of the EU.... If your statistics aren't a lie they are misleading. Out of the 40 percentage point band you decided that the 5 percent range was sufficient to conclude "most". It's great you quote people from the 1940s, but like I said Cameron negotiated out of ever closer political union. Your point is better served in a general EU thread, rather than a thread about the UK and the EU.

I'm no wordsmith but "Brussels is worse. You don't get to elect the council that decides the laws for a ceremonial EU parliament. Most of Britain's laws are passed by this council. " suggests more than 50% which is an utter lie. I told you previously i'm debating the UK and the EU, not for continental cases, so not certain of the relevance of your 80% figure in this debate. David Cameron negotiated out over ever closer political union. So for the UK the conspiracy theory about Brussels is irrational fearmongering. Call them racist remarks, then I will call the attitude to towards Germany and the EU in this thread racist and divisive. I wouldn't get involved in Texas, because it would be clear I don't understand the context. Which is what a lot of people are missing here. Regarding Brits outside of London I do. You have people in Swansea, Cornwall, Sunderland and other shitholes voting against the biggest investor in the region, how is that anything other than idiotic? It's biting the hand that feeds you. Have you ever been to Kent or Essex? These are places with some of the lowest level of immigration in the country but have immigration as their main issue with the EU. Sampling shows the lower the educational attainment, the higher the percentage of a leave vote in the UK. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-36624413?intlink_from_url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-36570120&link_location=live-reporting-story

There is no actual figure determining the proportion of laws in the UK created by the EU. However, most sensible people not named Nigel Farage understand it's way less than half. So your post is already an embellishment, but it suits your agenda as someone on the other side of the Atlantic trying to explain what is going on in this country. This misinformation posted has been wildly inaccurate. Washington has no relevance to this debate. I've already told you how the European Council is elected. Cameron already negotiated out of ever closer political union, so AEP is just towing the Telegraph's line on Brexit. This no border s%$#! is also another myth regarding Brexit. Yeah okay fine for EU nationals they can move into the UK as they please. The UK is not part of the schengen, so the terrorists are going to homegrown like in 7/7. To give you a simple example because I find your posts can sometimes be overly verbose. I'm sorry but what Marine Le Pen says is a hate crime. Malaria solving France's immigration problem, does that sound like anything other than hate crime? However, she gets to see what ever she likes in that chamber of autocracy. Nigel Farage continually insults people, and he is allowed to continue? The British identity was never being diminished. I'm not debating the merits of the EU for continental states (even if I disagree with you), i'm debating the EU and the UK. The fact is for all the negatives the EU brings, it has allowed the UK to be turned from a post-industrial economy to a wealthy service economy in ways that would never have been possible without the four freedoms. London is the financial capital of the world, and this is at risk unless access to the single market remains.

"it doesn't function democratically due to the unbalanced amount of influence Germany has over the EU" What do you mean? That would be because most countries either agree with Germany or a bunch of pussies for not standing up to it. If more than a few disagreed with Germany they could stop the German agenda but they don't. The French could quite easily, but they don't.

No the bulk of the media coverage was not of favour in staying in. The Sun, Express, Daily Mail, Star and Telegraph to name a few were pro Brexit. All television channels reporting news were neutral. The Sun and Mail being the most circulated newspapers in the country. The conservative party was neutral on Brexit. Labour, Greens, Lib Dem, SNP in favour of remaining. UKIP, DUP in favour of Brexit. http://reutersinstitute.politics.ox.ac.uk/news/study-shows-majority-press-coverage-eu-referendum-campaign-was-heavily-skewed-favour-brexit The BBC is neutral. If you ask a left winger, they will call it right wing. Ask a right winger, they will call it left wing. The leave campaign put a note through my door highlighting Turkey, Iraq and Syria, something about

Speaking of unelected. The country is about to end up with an unelected PM and now we have the cheek to complain about the EU's failings when this country can't organise a pissup in a brewery,

I already told you they are elected. Tell me how they are unelected, you put your faith in the EC members in your own general elections, and MEPs through the European elections. The Democratic checks and balances exist. A vote has to have 2/3 support, or at least 65% of the population. In most matters the UK has a veto. So the fact is its hardly undemocratic. Loads of political parties around the world hold leadership elections . I have no problem with this country of idiots voting. However, either side were not running an honest campaign on their numbers or points. Importantly, the leave campaign had no plan, for this reason the vote is pretty much a pointless sample of the average Brit out of London's racist values. The vote wasn't legally binding it was a consultative vote, so if its close it can feasibly ignored. Also when the margin is so close it doesn't necessarily indicate the country should take a strong Brexit stance. There are already doubts Article 50 won't be triggered, and that it being triggered can be subject to a high court challenge. It's a real mess at this point.

1) Secret ballot of elected MEPs. This happens everywhere, like the no confidence vote yesterday. 2) Re Draghi, Mark Carney wasn't elected neither was Janet Yellen or any other central banker. 3) European council i.e. the 28 member states elected Tusk. Those representatives of the council elected by their own people. FFS clutching at straws

European Parliament - directly elected European Commission - executive branch, voted by the Parliament, just like most executives are in each member country, hence indirectly elected European Council - Heads of State or Government, elected by their people (Monarchs are excluded; if they're head of a given state, it's the head of government that is the member) A friend sent me this - not sure what is going on with the text.

The house of lords has just about the same influence on sovereignty as the EU does. In fact anything passed in the EU has to pass through parliament to become law, so in effect the EU remains subservient to parliament. The EU is far more democratic than people care to believe. For every

Those articles are worthless, it's like me quoting something from the official remain campaign which would be similarly worthless. If you want to debate this properly leave rubbish from the Express out of the argument. How is the UK going to improve out of the EU/EEA if it goes that way? Also on the question of sovereignty, any comments on the House of Lords or the Monarch?

Lovely to play the debate card when you ignore any factual point and post ridiculous articles. I suppose if you weren't passing rubbish as fact with the brash arrogance I wouldn't care.

Again you have no idea about the UK, so you shouldn't open your mouth. Each post cements your ignorance on the UK. How many other rags was that found in? none. The BBC as the other terrestrial broadcasters remained neutral. In fact depending on your political persuasion they are often called right wing or left wing. Even the bloody Telegraph To call them left wing means you are either a moron, or unaware, or both! I'm sure the left wing BBC you have dreamed up wouldn't have allowed Boris Johnson to interject and ignore Dimbleby with such flagrance. Oh wait you probably didn't even watch that, and are commentating from somewhere else in the world.