FINAL: France - Italy

[HOLLYWOOD]

@biancoverde13

im gonna break down your civilised/nice reply to me :D

Your credibility is completly lost. This has jack s%$#! to do with supporting Italy. When i saw that replay i wanted to vomit. I wanted Zidane out of that game because he didnt deserve to be in the World Cup after that.

You’ve missed my argument completely; it’s one thing to sit down and reply from a biased hippy view and condemn Zidane for his violent reaction (fair enough) but try and see it from his point of view… It’s the world cup final the match is 0-0 close to extra time and you’ve been playing ur heart out then all off a sudden an opposition player pinches ur nipples says “I hope your mum dies; that terrorist slut” knowing that she is sick knowing that ur really close to her and knowing how religious you are… How would u react seriously if it was your mum (god forbid)... All Im saying is that even though Violence is wrong I can accept and understand his reaction because all people aren’t like you Drakos...

Like u said it is the world cup yet u condemns Zidane for his action (which I agree but I also understand why he did it) yet u have nothing to say about the Italian player who baited him in such a personal manner?? Let him get away with it Scott free and focus on Zidane ey?? Show how biased you are considering you hate the French (as u have expressed in the past).. I guarantee you wouldn’t have the same view as you do now if it was Zagorakis in zidanes shoes and instead of an Italian player baiting him it was a French player (preferably Henry)…

O0o0o0o0o boy talk about a 180…

You really are a lot lower than I thought. You could actually justify disgusting behavior like that. If Materazzi did it to Zidane you would be exactly what im saying, and i would be agreeing 100% . your a hyppocrite, a supporter of violence....and youve obviously never played a sport or been on a team....i put up with that s%$#! week by week, racism, dirty play, trash talk, far worse than the crap on that pitch! and theres only 1 ref and no cameras! ive been tempted to knock someone in the face but i dont! ...go learn about ATHLETICSM. Its a GREEK TRADITION AFTERALL

Really you thought I was a low person given the fact that you’ve never meet me before and you don’t even know what I look like?? Gee thanks!!

As for me “justifying disgusting” behavior I don’t however I can at least step back for a second and understand zidanes reaction; and as a Human I can admit that if I were in the same circumstances as him and I would probably have reacted the same way given my mother is dieing ect…

You talk about “trash talk” being involved in all sports (I agree) but the level of sports ur involved in and talking about is amateur... People tend to get away with a lot more in the Amateur league and you know what people don’t expect any better as well however when ur a professional football player playing in a tournament such as the word cup then behavior shown by Materazzi is completely unacceptable and should be fined!! I mean if we bluntly ignore what he said (like ur doing now and excusing it as trash talk) then what kind of example does that set out for younger kids?? That u can abuse someone verbal and get away with it?? Did u know verbal abuse is more damaging then violent abuse??

By the way ive played football for 4 years; baseball for 2 years, rugby for 1 year and tennis for 2 years… However thanks for making a personal assumption about me…

Trash talk is exactly its name trash talk. Matterazzi acted like a dumbF***. But when one side trash talks its often beause they are BOTH saying crap to put eachother on. But a physical attack of violence ---- EKSW VRE ALITI!!!!

And Lord knows if this happened to an Australian player what would you be saying...

so because he acted like a "dumb ######" he should get away with what he did?? we should jst say oohhh well lets just move on even though ur acts r unsportsmen like?? lol u ntalk about Bias?? ill give u a perfect example of yours!! lets say that Zidane was Zagorakis and Matterazzi was Henry; what would u say then?? how would u react?? talk about a 180 ey (sorry to repeat my self but the more i think about it the more i laugh) :blink:

Unless of course that is normal accepted behavior a nation of jailmates...

[HOLLYWOOD]

im still waiting for somebody to CITE ME A REAL EXAMPLE.....all i read is that theyre sneaky, crafty, cheating.......but they havent cheated s%$#! for real now! tell me exactly where and when and then ill think about agreeing with you!

Italians this tournament have been very well behaved.....much unlike the past.

I guess he tripped him with his back.

Nobody has to say that Italy would have lost in OT or the Australians dominated the game. The game would have gone into OT and anything can happen, either team could win. But to deny that this (picture above) was an unfair call, suggests some sort of favoritism towards Italy. Just look at it. Seriously, I really mean look at the picture.

This was not just awarding a penalty kick, this was awarding the game. It is impossible for any team to come back with 12 sec. left in a game.

Even though I don't like the Italian style of winning football games and even though I wanted France to win, I can still admit that Malouda probably dove in the box. My vision might not be 20/20 but I am not completely blind. I do think a PK should have been given to France around the 50th min., but it wasn't. That's o.k.

And yes, if Greece won cheap like that, my vision might become close to blind. :ph34r: But that does not mean I am correct in my judgement, it only means that I am showing unfair favoritism towards the Greek team. My judgement would be wrong and perhaps someone should point it out to me. Perhaps with a picture? ;)

Please look at the picture carefully and honestly tell me if that was a penalty.

Forget about it file; no matter how much proof you apply and show; people like him will always believe in there convictions… its like trying to convince a Muslim that Christianity is the right religion.. It aint going to happen..

He will still sit there and say “no that was a 50/50 call” bla bla bla and then give u example of how france; germany and even Australia got calls like this that decided the match :rolleyes:

[drakos13]

@biancoverde13

im gonna break down your civilised/nice reply to me :D

You

[HOLLYWOOD]

ey Drakos i got one thing to say to you and that is STOP BEING BIAS!!! :P :rolleyes: :LOL:

on a searious note i guess will have to agree to disagree AGAIN!!!

[drakos13]

hey i dont know about you guys but i agree with biancoverde13

:P :LOL: :D

[drakos13]

I guess he tripped him with his back.

looking at it closer...its hard to say Grosso had enough space to keep his balance...he could move his right foot out but how are you going to keep control dragging the other foot...it didnt look like there was enough time for Grosso to avoid it...beleive it or not when you have that momentum/pace going into the box its not easy to keep balance with a player obstructing your feet...theres already too much momentum forward to shift direction/footing....but then again Grosso probably has better balance than me...

[BlueStriker]

I guess he tripped him with his back.

looking at it closer...its hard to say Grosso had enough space to keep his balance...he could move his right foot out but how are you going to keep control dragging the other foot...it didnt look like there was enough time for Grosso to avoid it...beleive it or not when you have that momentum/pace going into the box its not easy to keep balance with a player obstructing your feet...theres already too much momentum forward to shift direction/footing....but then again Grosso probably has better balance than me...

First of all, Neill was not going for Grosso's feet or legs or any part of his body. You can see how far he has slid, Grosso's feet are parallel with Neill's back, (for the most conservative view at least his waist) and still has not touched Grosso. If Grosso decides to fall into Neill, it is his fault and not Neill's. Second of all, I honestly don't believe it was a 50/50 call, but anyways you practically have to be destroyed in the box to be awarded a penalty with 12 sec. left. You just don't award games like that, even if it was 50/50 (which it was not).

Last but not least, If you look closely at the picture it is obvious that Grosso prepared for the dive. :LOL:

[Lazarus]

Last but not least, If you look closely at the picture it is obvious that Grosso prepared for the dive

Priceless!.... :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

[drakos13]

First of all, Neill was not going for Grosso's feet or legs or any part of his body. You can see how far he has slid, Grosso's feet are parallel with Neill's back, (for the most conservative view at least his waist) and still has not touched Grosso. If Grosso decides to fall into Neill, it is his fault and not Neill's. Second of all, I honestly don't believe it was a 50/50 call, but anyways you practically have to be destroyed in the box to be awarded a penalty with 12 sec. left. You just don't award games like that, even if it was 50/50 (which it was not).

Last but not least, If you look closely at the picture it is obvious that Grosso prepared for the dive. :LOL:

yeah but that wasnt my point. I know he hadnt touched him yet.

But consider:

Grosso is moving fast into the box - look at his legs theyre not easy to balance

he has to push the ball past Neils arm with his right foot but concequently the left leg that has to follow (afterall this is at speed, and you cant make 2 steps in a row with the same foot) and there was no where to go and keep balance he could try to lift it over but it looks as if he doesnt have enough time or balance....Neil is more obstructing his footing than tackling him... Im not saying thats what happened Im saying looking at the picture its very possible that it did.

A picture with a still frame where there is no contact yet doesnt mean that it wasnt inevidtable...Because in reality there is momentum and you cant stop just like that while running...

[adonis]

whether its a penalty or not is a different question but lucas neill did fuk up and he has only himself to blame

with 20 seconds left you should at least stand your ground in the box goal side when grosso came into the box instead of going for such a mis timed slide tackle

that was just inviting a professional diver to take a splash for the penalty!

[BlueStriker]

Bluestriker----yeah Australia was dominating and not making any really threating chances. BUT you leave out-----Materazzis straight red, which by no arguement whatsoever was a straight red. Italy were dominating that game with 11 men and were actually going forward and missed plenty of must score opportunities.. :whistle:

About the red card to Materazzi, I think it should have been a yellow, not a 50-50 red card, I really think it was a yellow. YES, I can admit it. I don't like Italian football but it does not make me blind. I wouldn't mind hearing an Italian football fan put aside their team pride and admit wrong decisions that helped their team win, but maybe it's as Hollywood said it's like trying to convince a Muslim that Christianity is the best religion.

About Italy vs. Australia, if I had to choose, I would take a 12 sec. left in the game penalty kick (about 80% to 85% chance of winning) over a 1 man advantage for half the game, any day of the week. Especially if my team are defensive specialists, I like those odds.

Don't forget, the U.S. played Italy about half the game with 1 less man than the Italians and it ended in a tie. I think if the U.S. were given a penalty kick with 12 sec. left in that game, there would be a much better chance (about 80%) that the U.S. would win.

So that's it, the prosecution rests. If video evidence or pictures don't change opinions, then this jury is :ph34r:.

[BlueStriker]

whether its a penalty or not is a different question but lucas neill did fuk up and he has only himself to blame

with 20 seconds left you should at least stand your ground in the box goal side when grosso came into the box instead of going for such a mis timed slide tackle

that was just inviting a professional diver to take a splash for the penalty!

I agree it wasn't a wise decision especially against world class diving. I guess it would be the equivalent of someone getting robbed because they decided to walk through a bad neighborhood. You don't deserve it, but you should know better. ;)

I think his decision was bad because he was lying on the ground while Grosso had the ball near the goal, and could have used his football skills to try and score a goal. If Grosso had scored this way, Neill could be and would be blamed, and none of us would disagree with the 1-0 result for Italy.

Still I think the punishment is rather harsh for a poor decision, because Grosso didn't use his football skills. Instead he used his acting skills. Regardless of Neill's poor decision, people like Grosso shouldn't be awarded for cheating. :nono: They should be awarded only when using the football skills that were inteded for the game of football.

After all, this is not the Academy Awards, it's football!

[drakos13]

you posted twice but ignored my last one.......

why is that?

there is no evidence that it was a 100% dive. Only evidence that he was not tackled directly Try runing into the box and have a sudden obstacle at your feet, keeping a ball at the same time.....Youll stumble too. If not, why werent you on the Australia team!?

as for awarding a penalty / being 45 mins man down......its not a matter of choice, so forget about it. And with the full 11 Australia was non existant. Only when they were man up there was pressure but still nothing threatening. Australia had exposed defense, and no good opportunities and Italy had tight defense and some great opportunities. Im not 100% sure its a dive, it looks like an obvious obstruction that was exxagerated to ensure the call was made. And lets not forget, the referee does not get a replay.

Maybe luck, maybe legit, maybe crap, maybe cheat---the team that performed better still went through anyways so its over...

[BlueStriker]

O.k., fine I give up, their is no use in debating this. Football is a very passionate sport, and emotions can often cloud judgements. I could write paragraphs upon paragraphs and reply to the momentum theory and every one of your other points. I even have another picture to post of the ref standing close to Grosso-Neil staring directly at them as it happened; but forget it. I can still say more about this Grosso-Neill incident and famous Italian actors and cheating and poor refereeing and not using football skills to win and so on and so on.... I'll just stop here and agree to disagree, and it's not because I believe I'm wrong or I feel you are right. But I must say this argument has become exhausted. I think most of the people reading this thread have already made up their minds on this incident and will stick to their beliefs no matter what they see with their eyes or what we say.

[drakos13]

O.k., fine I give up, their is no use in debating this. Football is a very passionate sport, and emotions can often cloud judgements. I could write paragraphs upon paragraphs and reply to the momentum theory and every one of your other points. I even have another picture to post of the ref standing close to Grosso-Neil staring directly at them as it happened; but forget it. I can still say more about this Grosso-Neill incident and famous Italian actors and cheating and poor refereeing and not using football skills to win and so on and so on.... I'll just stop here and agree to disagree, and it's not because I believe I'm wrong or I feel you are right. But I must say this argument has become exhausted. I think most of the people reading this thread have already made up their minds on this incident and will stick to their beliefs no matter what they see with their eyes or what we say.

you are absolutley right. It does cloud judgements. But Because you have one one still frame of Neil on the ground before Grosso runs into him does not imply you have the whole picture!

And you are telling me theres only one side to it, what you saw. Same as me, I thought it was an exxageration, not a dive. Is that not possible? Overall its hard to tell because Grosso did make contact with Neil.

And to be honest I really could care less. Out of all the controversial penalties in this world I have seen much worse.

I just thought Id bring up that looking closer at the picture its easy to spot the separation but not include other factors of Grosso's run such as MOMENTUM. The laws of physics are constant you know. So dont act as if Im "blinded" for seeing a different possibility....Thats ridiculous. I could tell you YOU are blind for beleiving something different too and it would weigh out the same!

Bottom Line: Theres also the possibility Grosso held his nose and dove for it! Theres the possibility that Grosso didnt have the time to pull away from Neil's obstruction and just went down. Neither of us really knows only Fabio does.

[Lazarus]

Alright guys, let's shed a little light on things with the "secret" video clips of Italy's training sessions. They're dated to 2004, but you can see how they were laying the foundations of masterful diving!

PS. It's a joke of course!

[BlueStriker]

I just thought Id bring up that looking closer at the picture its easy to spot the separation but not include other factors of Grosso's run such as MOMENTUM. The laws of physics are constant you know. So dont act as if Im "blinded" for seeing a different possibility....Thats ridiculous. I could tell you YOU are blind for beleiving something different too and it would weigh out the same!

That's fine. I really was not mocking you about momentum. I read and understood your explanations in your previous posts. Maybe because I wrote "momentum theory" it seemed as if I was being sarcastic or trying to make you look like some weird conspiracy theorist. I wasn't. Instead of "momentum theory", I could have written something like "your explanations of how momentum affected Grosso's contact with Neil", but I wrote "momentum theory" because I thought it was shorter and simpler, that's all.

I can write a response to all your points but I just don't want to debate this anymore because after all we have said, anything else we say will not be productive and it will just continue into a never ending circle.

Peace.

[HOLLYWOOD]

Alright guys, let's shed a little light on things with the "secret" video clips of Italy's training sessions. They're dated to 2004, but you can see how they were laying the foundations of masterful diving!

PS. It's a joke of course!

thats gold :P