What now malezani

[Montreal_Thrillos]

well it was opened by a green supporter... ripping into malezani

this is a forum and everyone says their opinion wheatther green or red.

i dont see any thing that says ONly for pao fans... or needed a password to get in

therefore we have a right to post !

[Panathinaikos_Trifilli]

dont lock this thread, i mean i totally disagreed with it from the start, but dont lock it, mlezanis jst gonna lose one game in a couple of months and someone else will open another one.

[HOLLYWOOD]

true lol

[trifilli]

Malesani is a step up, from either one of last years coaches...

One could only argue if he is the coach that should build this team in the 5 year plan.

While there has been steady improvement from players, system and coaches.

PAO has major hick ups, in between. This affects the team psychologically, and raises questions, where normally none should be raised...

In my opinion, even though he has had time to present a better product, and with some exceptions he has NOT...

PAO would be worse off, by playing the revolving door/ musical chairs game we had last season.

By bringing a new coach, PAO would fall one more time in the timeless trap of impatience.

Give him until the end of the season. See how the team performs, and judge him from that, and NOT whether PAO wins the title.

If we can save our Euro reputation, by making respectful appearances, and go through one elimination round, I would consider his job safe.

PEACE

[choc13]

hes been with us 8 months,,,and i have not seen 1 decent game. I say na figi aftos kai na figi to .gam.imeno karikino pou onomazete varidinogianni. Den pas stin kolasi. 10 years ta exis kanis pou.tana re ilithoi.

[trifilli]

The Udinese game will be the season for PAO/Malesani.

With a PAO win, :tup: and Uefa/CL bound, PAO has saved the season ... temporarily.

Otherwise, it will be a long chase for that... CL spot. :(

PEACE

[drakos13]

guys malesani is a good coach as a tactitian. Do you see the players geting anything done or held back by his tactics? i dont.

I feel malesani was responsible for not preparing the team for the season which is why we got off to a poor start.....At this point we are doing better but we arent doing bad enough to sack the guy.....We know he has potential, and we have to measure short run vs long run.....If we get another coach we are going for short run--- probably end up 2nd or 3rd anyways....if we stick with Malesani we will still probably get 2nd or 3rd but have a better side prepared for the next year and so on....Sometimes teams do have to take a hit to get better. The team and management are trying to make a legitimate effort to build a squad--- not something that is built in one season---especially at our level. Look at Real Madrid spending rebuilding so much but can hardly compete compare to their old days....look at Milan who a few years ago werent making the CL even and were pretty awful....then a few years later the experience together paid off and Milan are force again and won the CL.... Every team takes a while to build and ours needs it......

im not saying we shouldnt change the teams roster but keep the core players and management for a while and try to bring it up a level...every team loses...if we throw Malesani out it would be the death of a great vision and idea to build a strong team with the youth players we have...

[HOLLYWOOD]

If malesani gets fired then pao management need there asses kicked!!!

im so sick of pao always looking for the Quick fix!!! If there ever gonna build a team that is worthy to compete in europe then they need to stick to a long term plan, and yes sometimes ur gonna hit rough patches however the succesful teams r the ones that can ride it out and not cave in....

This is why all the greek teams sux :tdown:

[pao123]

there have been managers in england and italy and spain that have lasted 7-10 years under one club and greek clubs can hardly hold one for a full year...

[HOLLYWOOD]

http://new.e-go.gr/sports/articles.asp?cat...=2&pubid=284399

:tdown:

[pao123]

henriksen...henriksen...henriksen is returning to his hooommee!!!!

[Panathinaikos_Trifilli]

there have been managers in england and italy and spain that have lasted 7-10 years under one club and greek clubs can hardly hold one for a full year...

Alex ferguson has been with united for... 19 YEARS!!!!

[TheCity1924]

Basilis Konstantinou gave an interview with Filathlo. Very interesting!!!

http://www.sportime.gr/xst/index.php?optio...6230&Itemid=116

[kisskiss]

I think Malezani has now realised he needs to stick with a

core of players and build the team around them.

Perhaps that was one of his goals where he needed to know the abilities

of all the players under different pressure situations.

The 'definites' in the core should be players like Galinovic,

Vyntra (??), Moris, Darlas, Eki, Conseicao, Seric (??), Mantzios.

The 'possibles' being players like Nilsson, Pap, Torghelle, Goumas

& Wooter (??).

From there he can choose the others around this group of players

based on who the opposition is and the type of game he wishes the

team to play.

He may even start considering Sanmartean slowly into the fray given

this whole testorone issue has now been cleared (did anyone know about

this in the 1st place ?).

Either way for Panathinaikos standards we've suffered enough losses and

embarassment that one could tolerate and we're only in November having

played competitively for JUST 3 MONTHS.

Enough is enough, now we demand the team start playing with more

heart, tsabouka and spirit ..... no more lax\heartless performances.

[HOLLYWOOD]

Panathinaikos, a huge bet for its coach

The inconsistency shown by the Athens club so far this season is to be expected when trying to build a team from scratch

By Christos Kontos - Kathimerini

It has been a case of Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde for the Panathinaikos soccer club this season. The team’s inconsistency has sparked friction and frustration among fans who have had to deal with wild swings in form. On the one hand, there were atrocious away performances against Barcelona and Udinese in the Champions League competition, and last week’s shock fourth-round exit from the Greek Cup with an away loss against second-division club Ergotelis. On the other, signs of hope have surfaced from important games such as the Athens club’s home draw against Barcelona and win against Werder Bremen, both in the Champions League.

http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_artic...4/11/2005_63005

very intresting read

[cyberfish]

It seems to me that the plan with Malezani's hiring was to get away from the "tsoukou-tsoukou ball" of the previous years. He began to play 3-4-3 (h' 3-5-2) last year and it looked like with the summer transfers he was determined to establish a system with 3 defenders this year.

Such system requires three fast ball handlers in defence, two excelent "defencive" (I put this in quotes because I will explain later) midfielders, and above all two left and right midfielders that can handle the entire side.

Something like this:

-----------------Galinovich---------------

---------Vintra---Moris----Kotsios-------

Nilsson---Biscan----Conceicao-----Seric

----------------Gonzales------------------

------------forward------forward

or

-----------------Galinovich---------------

---------Vintra---Moris----Kotsios-------

Nilsson---Biscan----Conceicao-----Seric

--------Gonzales--------forward----------

------------------forward------------------

This is what forced us to go back to a 4-4-2:

We never bought a high caliber center back, and instead tried Vintra there for a long time, Andric and then Nilsson for a couple of games. While Moris plays well in a system with three center backs, and Kotsios is ok, Goumas cannot work well in such system (Not fast enought to play isolated out on the right when needed very often in the game). Vindra, Andric, and Nilsson proved that they cannot play center back.

Furthermore, to play with 3 center backs, the midfielders need to plug all the holes before the opponents reach our defense. Biscan so far has not played well, Nilsson does not seem to be able to handle the whole right side by himself, and the same goes for Seric on the other side. Both need help defensively and offensively. This has been a major hindering because then Malezani was forced to put 4 on defense.

Now with 4 in the back we need more pure attacking right and left midfielders, and we don't have them. Charalabidis, Wouter, and Theodoridis could play this role but they have not shown that they can brake down a defence consistently. Sanmartean is another player everyone seems to think that can save us. I am sure Malezani (and every other coach before him) would put him in if he believed that he could help the team.

As for the one or two defensive midfielders and whether or not Gonzales plays too much defence, Malezani seems to think that the responsibility for offence and defence in the midfield should be distributed to everyone. I don't think he sees the team as having two defensive midfielders. He sees the team as having four players that can defend when the other team has the ball, and create/attack when we have it.

Once we take away the label of "defensive midfielder" the "Gonzales" position makes more sense. No one else on the team can play midfield like Gonzales does. As for the "dekari" position that many wish Gonzales would fill, I don't think many teams can afford to have a player that does not contribute defensively in the midfield. In modern football even forwards have defensive responsibilities. Besides, I don't remember us being exactly a goal-scoring machine with the "diamond" formation (with Gonzales more forward). In the previous years we had a hell of a time scoring against smaller teams that defended in numbers. If anything our team was playing more "katenatsio" than anything else.

Anyway, what I see from Malezani is that he has tried several ways to make this team play better. It's not accurate to say that the team does not have a consistent formation and that Malezani keeps changing the players.

The team established a system (4-4-2) early on, and has kept a consistent foundation of seven players throughout: Galinovic, Conceicao, Vintra, Seric, Gonzales, Moris, Nilson. Three more seem to have established themselves when healthy: Darlas, Mantzios, Papadopoulos. To Malezani's credit, he has managed to give chances to every single player.

I see effort, I see a coaching philosophy that I like and I see players that try. I have some doubts about player conditioning. What this team lacks is fluidity. The players still have to think about their moves on the pitch and that's why it seems like we play static football. Time will fix that. I am willing to wait out the year knowing that the main characteristic of rebuilding teams is inconsistency. Things will fall into place.

I would not be surprised to see some corrective moves with one or two winter transfers (a center back and a left or right attacking midfielder, maybe even a right back).

[drakos13]

If malesani gets fired then pao management need there asses kicked!!!

if he gets fired it will be from the pressure from the fans....Vardinogiannis is behind him and realizes patience pays off better than a quick 2nd place/beat 1 good team in europe a year----to titles and making good european runs. im willing to wait and watch these kids develop. Mantzios is getting better in every game in my opinion. I had no idea hed be developing so rapidly...

[pao123]

If malesani gets fired then pao management need there asses kicked!!!

if he gets fired it will be from the pressure from the fans....Vardinogiannis is behind him and realizes patience pays off better than a quick 2nd place/beat 1 good team in europe a year----to titles and making good european runs. im willing to wait and watch these kids develop. Mantzios is getting better in every game in my opinion. I had no idea hed be developing so rapidly...

everyone was givng manztios slack at panionios for not playing well but i always knew it was because he had a lack of good service from the midfield...pao have provdided that to him and have given him a chance to shine through and improve and let his talent grow..definilty the surrise package of the season..im very pleased with him and already he has imrved greatly...

[Kalamatianos]

It seems to me that the plan with Malezani's  hiring was to get away from the "tsoukou-tsoukou ball" of the previous years. He began to play 3-4-3 (h' 3-5-2) last year and it looked like with the summer transfers he was determined to establish a system with 3 defenders this year.

Such system requires three fast ball handlers in defence, two excelent "defencive" (I put this in quotes because I will explain later) midfielders, and above all two left and right midfielders that can handle the entire side.

Something like this:

-----------------Galinovich---------------

---------Vintra---Moris----Kotsios-------

Nilsson---Biscan----Conceicao-----Seric

----------------Gonzales------------------

------------forward------forward

or

-----------------Galinovich---------------

---------Vintra---Moris----Kotsios-------

Nilsson---Biscan----Conceicao-----Seric

--------Gonzales--------forward----------

------------------forward------------------

This is what forced us to go back to a 4-4-2:

We never bought a high caliber center back, and instead tried Vintra there for a long time, Andric  and then Nilsson  for a couple of games. While Moris plays well in a system with three center backs, and Kotsios is ok, Goumas cannot work well in such system (Not fast enought to play isolated out on the right when needed very often in the game). Vindra, Andric, and Nilsson proved that they cannot play center back.

Furthermore, to play with 3 center backs, the midfielders need to plug all the holes before the opponents reach our defense. Biscan so far has not played well, Nilsson does not seem to be able to handle the whole right side by himself, and the same goes for Seric on the other side. Both need help defensively and offensively. This has been  a major hindering because then Malezani was forced to put 4 on defense.

Now with 4 in the back we need more pure attacking right and left midfielders, and we don't have them. Charalabidis, Wouter, and Theodoridis could play this role but they  have not shown that they can brake down a defence consistently. Sanmartean is another player everyone seems to think that can save us. I am sure Malezani (and every other coach before him) would put him in if he believed that he could help the team.

As for the one or two defensive midfielders and whether or not Gonzales plays too much defence, Malezani seems to think that the responsibility for offence and defence in the midfield should be distributed to everyone. I don't think he sees the team as having two defensive midfielders. He sees the team as having four players that can defend when the other team has the ball, and create/attack when we have it.

Once we take away the label of "defensive midfielder" the "Gonzales" position makes more sense. No one else on the team can play midfield like Gonzales does. As for the "dekari" position that many wish Gonzales would fill,  I don't think many teams can afford to have a player that does not contribute defensively in the midfield. In modern football even forwards have defensive responsibilities. Besides, I don't remember us being exactly a goal-scoring machine with the "diamond" formation (with Gonzales more forward). In the previous years we had a hell of a time scoring against smaller teams that defended in numbers. If anything our team was playing more "katenatsio" than anything else.

Anyway, what I see from Malezani is that he has tried several ways to make this team play better. It's not accurate to say that the team does not have a consistent formation and that Malezani keeps changing the players.

The team established a system (4-4-2) early on, and has kept a consistent foundation of seven players throughout: Galinovic, Conceicao, Vintra, Seric, Gonzales, Moris, Nilson. Three more seem to have established themselves when healthy: Darlas, Mantzios, Papadopoulos. To Malezani's credit, he has managed to give chances to every single player.

I see effort, I see a coaching philosophy that I like and I see players that try. I have some doubts about player conditioning. What this team lacks is fluidity. The players still have to think about their moves on the pitch and that's why it seems like we play static football. Time will fix that.  I am willing to wait out the year knowing that the main characteristic of rebuilding teams is inconsistency. Things will fall into place.

I would not be surprised to see some corrective moves with one or two winter transfers (a center back and a left or right attacking midfielder, maybe even a right back).

Very good post. I agree with your oppinion and everything you present is quite true.

But!!!

I can't deny the fact that we as a team bought Biscan and we are not using him for the sake of the team's formation.

And of course THE REASON IS : BASINAS...

He left and the team is like dissasembled...

I for one prefer stick with 4-4-2 with a diamond.

This to my is the best possible system.

I belive that because the 4-4-2 with a diamond can transform to every possible stystem that exist in soccer.

A team that has used that system for a few years is very hard to break.

why ?

-Every other system that Malessani tried as you mentioned in the end exists in it, even the 3-4-3, or the 3-5-2, or the 4-3-3, or the current 4-4-2 with a staight line.

3-4-3 or 3-5-2:

The 1 Back (Biscan) half with the 2 CB get lined up for the 4-4-2 Diamond.

The other 2 halvs Leondiou/Gonzales/Tsiolis and Conseisao can play the BH role as they do now.

1-This can help the LB or RB attack from the sides.

(What you said about Serich and Nillson and the reason they were bought, it applies here as well.)

2-This can help in defending Set pieces.

4-3-3

Samartean/Gonzales is basically the 3rd striker in this case.

If Aderson gets to return, it will be ideal to change to this:

-------Manzios----Togerlle

-------------Gonzales

-----Aderson-------Conseisao

--------------Bisacan

Serich--Kotsios---Morris--Vydra

[cyberfish]

Good points Kalamatiane.

I agree with your points, and to be honest, I don't have any system preference myself (besides not playing with five, six, or seven defenders). In my post I was pointing out what seemed to be Malezani's plan and how it changed along the way.

I think we can agree that the players make or brake the system. The system Malezani wanted to play did not work out because key players did not work out (Biscan and Conceicao to a certain extend).

So what now.. We play 4-4-2 and we don't have the players for it. Our left and right midfielders are playing there out of position. Nilsson and Seric are converted backs, and Charalabidis and Wouter are used to play more in the center of the field. By the same token, from all our forwards none can play far out on the wings (Mantzios has been doing a good job there but then there is no one else to fill the box when he is not in).

I don't think pushing Gonzales in front of Conceicao would change the fact that opponents don't respect our wingers and jam the middle. Having said that, I still would like to see Malezani try this diamond formation a game or two.

If we continue playing 4-4-2 (with diamond or in line) we need to acquire two wingers that can attack. I have high hopes for Charalabidis, but I don't think we have a left footed player to do the same work on the left. I hope we make a move this upcoming transfer season.

[HOLLYWOOD]

Ive supported the Italian for as much as i can....

Now i seriously cant keep a straight face and say "he should stay ect ect.."

i mean i was all for the long term plan however i didn’t anticipate during this long term plan we will become a disgrace both domestically and in Europe!!! Sure we might have dropped points here and there against Aek, Paok and oly however to come to this???

Even I say drop the Italian… His an Idiot period

[HOLLYWOOD]

The plan is fairly simple!!!

There in no vail of mystery covering it!!!

1. Buy a crappy coach that has succesfully managed to relagate 2 teams in his career,

win teh Uefa cup with Parma ( even my grandma could do that with the players that played for Parma at that time) , and loose the Greek championship get disqualified from Greek Cup , get disqualified from CL and Uefa Cup in only one season!!! Clark Kent can go and hide himself!!!

2. Buy a bunch of crappy players

Kotsios : the legendary center back of OFI United!!

Biscan : A true hero in Anfield

Flavio Conceisao : your average Brazilian that does not give a s%$#! about his team,  Dude i played in Real Madrid once 

Gkekas : The flamboyant striker of Kalithea United!! Top Goalscorer in the Greek League

Oh my Gosh what an achievement!!! We have to sign him before Chelsea!!!

Sandor Torghelle : A "must" attacking Cornerstone for everyteam that respects itself

Nilsson : His performances in Euro dazzled the Panathinaikos board into enough stupidity as to sign him.

Southampton!! Haha! U suckers!! We snatched your best player!!! In your face in your face!!!

Wooter: A new type of footballer!! PAO has discovered the miraculous chicken that plays football!!

Another signing from the Mekka of International Football Cyprus!!!

Charalambidis : "Dunno mate sometimes i play sometimes i do not , depending on if i got laid last night"

3. Make pompous declarations of 5 year plans

It only took Bush 10 days to make a plan for invading Iraq.

p.s Bush i stupid

feel free to add any comments

i found this funny yet tru from another web site....

[athinaios]

I was saying that Melisani isn't the biggest problem of PAO, but he should go now. BUT, if that's the only thing that changes, it WILL NOT matter. PAO needs to change its management and those responsible for the running of the team. These people tried several years now and have produced miserable results. The air in the organization STINKS!

I think this is a good opportunity to clean house since, let's not kid ourselves, we don't have the team to go for ..second place... We're out of the cup too. Just fire a dozen players for good measure. Most of them don't deserve to be on the team. Save the money you'd spend on Flavio, Biscan and rest of crapacular players. Give it to those who at least TRY. Yes, we're this low... those professional players don't try hard enough.

Btw, Duscan isn't good for PAO. Bring Markarian or some other professional coach.

[IRAKLIS]

Unfortunately there is not one Greek team that has a pedigree high enough in europe to purchase "world class players", that would aid in building a team to compete in Europe. However, this is not say players with potential are not welcome in PAO, or any Greek team for that matter. In the past, top performances by Greek teams in Europe occured when one group of players grew and mattured togther over a lengthy period of time. In addition, these teams were predominantly comprised of Greek players.

Therefore, scince Greek teams do not have the money or the prestige to buy a world class team, it must be made. We have great potential going to waste even in our domestic league never mind abroad.

WHAT WILL HAPPEN TOO!

1)Agritis

2)Fotakis

3)Lagos

4)the Kapetanos brothers on iraklis

5)Sifakis

6)Kotsolis

7)Barkoglou

8) Leontiou

9)Tziolis

10)Moras

11)Taralidis

12)Vallas

13)Vakouftsis( i have no idea where the hell he is but I remeber him being a fantastic player)

ALL OF THESE YOUNG SOLID PLAYERS ARE BEING WASTED!!!!!!!

instead we get washed up s%$#! foreign players like Seric, Conceisao, Torgelle, Rezic, Andric, Signori, Maric, Zutautas, Skacel, Wooter, etc

These are players which have been taking the places of our quality youth players. Even in the glory days of AEK, PAO, OLY, PAOK, IRAKLIS, OFI, Panionios, Aris ( all of these at one point held there ground in europe) THESE FOREGNERS WOULD NOT EVEN MAKE THE BENCH!!!!! so why do administrations give them so much praise and money that Basinas, Karagounis, Giannakopoulos, Fyssas, Machlas, Tsartas, Nikolaidis, Nikopolidis never saw( i doubt many of the players on our euro cup winning ethniki had contracts in Greece overing or at a million euros) WE TALK ABOUT EUROPEAN TEAMS UNDERVALUING GREEK PLAYERS !!! IF THAT WERE THE CASE THAN THESE PLAYERS WOULD HAVE STAYED HERE BUT WE TURNED THEM AWAY WE MADE THEM FEEL WORTHLESS IN GREECE BY SPENDING MONEY XEFTILISMENI PAXITES APO TO EXOTERIKO

personally this is what i would love to see a greek team do, and thus far i only see AEK making an effort to have a proper administration TRYING TO BUILD A PROPER FUTURE!!!! not a quick fix attitude by buying new players that suck from abraod or getting horrible coaches ( Sollid, Malesani, Skazni, Soum) pao tends to specialize lately in buying crap coaches, why dont they go after coaches like Markarian, Anastasiadis, Kyrastas(RIP), Rotsa, Gmoch??

At the end of the day Greek teams will only be able to compete if they build through acadamies and teach the youngsters to play real balla, since we do not have the pull to buy or organize world class teams.

any way if I were the coach of pao right now this would be my team and it would also be 10x cheaper and more effective with the potential to achive great things thus increasing the value of the players and aiding the ethniki

Kotsolis

Vyntra Goumas Darlas

Pappas or Illiadis Gonzalez Leontiou Lagos

Mantzios Kapetanos

sorry about the long post i dont post often but when i do i make it count TA LEME PADIA!

[IRAKLIS]

i forgot one more CB my bad... lets go with Kyriakos even though he wont ever come back