Freddy Adu

[mk21]

I hate the MLS because its a joke the supporters and atmospheres are laughable there is no passion no ambition or anything. The clubs have no history or anything making it uninteresting along with the awful style of play. Its a nice place for stars to retire to though like Stoichkov, Matteus etc. I wish Hagi went there that would have been hillarious seeing him single handedly win the league every year.

The league has been around for seven years how do you expect the clubs to have a history. The atmospheres are laughable.....just as in Greek league......unless its a derby you see like 500 fans in the stands at A Ethniki matches......for a league thats been around for a long time thats a joke.

What kind of atmosphere do you want to create?...one where people are afraid to take their families to a ghpedo? Or one when the 2 premiere teams are in a cup final and no stadium wants to host it. Ask any city in Spain to host Real-Barca....or England to host ManU-Liverpool....they would be licking their chops to get that chance.

As for Hagi....at the end of his career he went to the Turkish league and singlehandedly won that and ended up helping his team win a UEFA cup.

So I guess that makes the Turkish league a joke too then.

[drakos13]

first of all i see families at PAO games so shutup. THey dont sit in the exedres behind the goal they sit in the regular seating which has never been problematic.

I even saw women and small children in our fan section away vs AEK this year and that game. So youre wrong.

Compare the exitement of even an AEK game to the wimpy MLS drunk mexican atmosophere.

Im sorry but atomsphere is about intesity and Greece and Turkey have that down the best. England is the most dull atomsphere i have ever seen. Id take a crumbling leoforo or any Greek stadium with 15000 even less ANYDAY over a full 62000 Man U game. Screw family places - if you want to be a family sit around the tv and watch it. The stadium is for the most devout, not for picnics.

also

Stop confusing atmosphere with events outside the game. There is a difference.

as for Hagi, who is a god, would dominate the MLSucks even at his old age no way in hell singlehandedly won the Turkish league. his 2000 team was incredible

Taffarel in goal

Popescu and Bulent two great defenders

Emre, Buruk Okan, hagi, and Tugay in midfield (all three of those play for major european clubs today execpt for Tugay who plays premiership)

Sas and a Hakan Sukur at his prime.

Thats a damn good team.

[jcl_jcl2002]

Donovon is fast and is ok at dribbling but cannot finish. Hes great player for the MLS but there was a reason he came back- he wasnt good enough.

Alright Drako, I think it's about time I joined this discussion :lol: :lol: :lol: Donovan didn't leave because he wasn't good enough. He was sitting on the bench and because he's got no heart and is a spoiled brat he went crying for his mama. That's why I don't like him. He can finish fine as he showed at the World Cup. It's just his Californian sunshine spoiled brat attitude which would bring him down in Europe...but i've read that ManU are monitoring him and after the game against Mexico where he did pretty well, we may be talking about him leaving for Old Trafford in January.

I hate the MLS because its a joke the supporters and atmospheres are laughable there is no passion no ambition or anything.

It's true, there very very rarely is passion among the fans. I hear ads on the radio and they're all cute and stupid and attract 6 year olds and their soccer moms because there's a big inflatable slide outside Gillette Stadium and because the mascot's taking photos and he's gonna be having a juggling contest and half-time...that's what I don't like about the league.

But I do think that there is some legitimate talent among individuals in the league. The average player stinks and couldn't make it in the Finnish 3rd Division, but there are some players who have the potential to make it over there and some already have. Look at how easily Tim Howard and Carlos Bocanegra have made the switch from MLS to the EPL. They've been mainstays in their respective lineups and have been for the most part very impressive. That's all I think MLS will be for quite some time: a feeder league. And only when America isn't so hated by Europe and some quality players are willing to transfer there during their primes, only then will it be seen as a world-class league.

As for Freddy Adu, I can't stand how's he's over hyped by the media. It's pathetic and totally stupid. Count how many times the camera goes over him. He's got potential to be a very very skillful player but it'll be a while before he shows is real stuff. I'm not sure what would've been better for him, Europe or MLS. A lot of the big teams have aweful academies in Europe where they don't put any investment into their youth and they're wasted...if he had gone to Chelsea say, he may never have seen the light of day. On the other hand, ManU or Ajax for example would've taken darn good care of him because they do miracles with their youth...At the same time, the atmosphere in MLS is nowhere as intense as Europe is and he could grow nicely in a pro environment. That lack of passion works as a double-edge sword in this case as it's all soccer moms and their spoiled brat kids who go to watch him...then again maybe he's not 14 and he's 18 and this environment's just fine for him... :lol:

[drakos13]

Alright Drako, I think it's about time I joined this discussion :lol: :lol: :lol: Donovan didn't leave because he wasn't good enough. He was sitting on the bench and because he's got no heart and is a spoiled brat he went crying for his mama. That's why I don't like him. He can finish fine as he showed at the World Cup. It's just his

nice to see you in this JC, but your wrong on one thing.

He didnt show that at the world cup. He scored 2 goals. one of them was a header from 3 feet away completly unmarked vs Mexico, nice goal but credit only derves to go to the sender there. the other was trash vs poland conselation goal. He had too many chances vs Germany and could have finished there. ( i dont care how in form Kahn was, Bottom line when your one on one you should score. Its a combination of the goalie being good and you sucking, not just the goalie being too good. Donovan at Man U would be great, because Man U suck ass and a handful of there millions of supporters have been with them since the hard times and are true fans not bandwagon ones. I want to see them go down next year - and laugh hysterically as everyone shrugs and quickly starts shelling out for Arsenal jerseys. They would pay top dollar for him to sell more shirts in the USA (gk jerseys not too popular :lol: ).... just like the chinese guy they bought..... Forlan is far better than him too.

Also : America is not hated by Europe. People disagree here with policies by the sons of bitches in office but many do not hate the actual people. The reason why players wont go is :

MLS has no fans.

Has stupid draft rules, its a company rather than an organization. Everyones owned by the same. And of course - theres No Champions League.

there is no REAL passion for the sport - and i mean this outside of the atomspheres especially. There are no rivalries, no relegations - nothing. makes for a dull league. They should stop getting these stupid marketing decisions in the way and develop into somethign that can grow on people. then you can exploit it for its money. By the way the draft is the most ridiculous concept in professional athletics. I mean think about it if it was in Europe. Oh this year Panathinaikos picks Grigori Georgato. And he has no choice and he hates us. Or Lazio or Inter picking Totti. He loves Roma he should play for them if he wants ....

[trifilli]

The MLS is not a quality league, but...

Neither is the Greek league, that we all follow so passionately!

We as soccer fans in North America, have NOTHING to gain and plenty to lose if this "league" fails.

I have been to MLS games and I reject the notion that it is supported by any ethnicity... there are many Latinos, as well as Europeans and even more Americans at the games.

The "atmosphere" is not like in Greece and it will never be simply because the culture of sports is diametrically opposite.

Sports in N. America are entertainment not WAR...

The nastiest of rivalries in hockey, football, basketball, baseball do not compare to an average game in Greece.

Attendance in the MLS is far higher than the protathlima

The games ARE NOT fixed

The refs not booed at every call and objects are not thrown at the players.

The teams are pretty much all equally "bad" :) , but the players play hard for 90 minutes and try within their abilities.

I could not compare the passion that I have for Greece and PAO when they play, to that in the MLS...neither do I follow the league, however I DO want it to succeed.

The more soccer exposure there is, the merrier

Once the soccer players get the $$$, the media exposure and fame of other sports; then the youths that start playing early, only to abandon the sport for the more glamorized competition (football, baseball...) they will stay with soccer and develop a wider fan base and quality talent.

More interest brings better coverage and quality

Why not include a couple of MLS teams in the copa America?

That could bring a CL type of excitement to the games

There have been some friendlies with Mexican teams and the MLS sides have faired well.

If we have any illusions that Greece and the protathlima are so much better than the US NT and the MLS, I have a bitter reminder:

Holland - US 1-0

Holland - Greece 4-0

I wish it were not true, but we are not better than the "Americanakia"...

The above is not true however for the top 2-3 teams in Greece.

Even though there have not been any friendlies, I would expect the best Greek sides to beat the MLS champion...

I would also expect the worst Greek first division teams to loose to the worst MLS teams...

The above is a result of the inequality that makes the Greek protathlima VERY PREDICTABLE :(

PEACE

[drakos13]

wow. couldnt be further off.

first off our ethniki is FAR better than America. No doubt . If youre going to judge by a result 2 years ago or even this year against holland---whatever go for it.

that was 1 game, may i also add we were unbeaten in 15.

Greece is one of the stronger teams in europe, the USA dont compare after squeking by a backup mexico team.

the population of greece is about 10.000 i dont know.

america is in hundreds of millions. Thats absurd to make that comparison.

some friendlies went ok between MLS teams - but

in the internorth american cups they get bitched by midtable honduran clubs

6th league in europe say anything???????????

MLS teams would be disgraced in the A ethniki

MLS ISNT THAT GOOD. Theres not much to it.

[drakos13]

why exactly do you think the US is better than our ethniki?

was it the fluke win vs a disgraceful Portugal?

There tie with South Korea

The ksylo from Poland?

The controversial game with Mexico?

picture an actual game.

I cant see any american defender stoping demis or papa or vryza.

and whats about the midfield?

is 140 pound skinny no touch bitch Damarcus Beasley gonna stroll past Benfica's Fyssas?

Or Dabizas or Kirgiakos gonna get "tossed" by Taylor Twellman and Josh Wolf?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

watch out for Bruce Arena outsmarting King Otto.... :lol:

what about Cobi Jones? the worst forward in america who scored a mighty17 times as a forward in 110 matches vs shitty ass central american countries?

ask people who dont support our ethniki - they would agree too.

the closest estimate to a recent encounter would be when Turkey handed it to the them in the Confederations cup. Turkey are very similar with us but we are better at the moment (and it will stay that way :tup: )

Holland beat us 4-0 in a friendly - with our players with a lot on there minds as the season's end is near, not to mention Holland have developed a lot lately and are a great side. It doesnt matter.

[trifilli]

Holland beat us 4-0 in a friendly - with our players with a lot on there minds as the season's end is near, not to mention Holland have developed a lot lately and are a great side. It doesnt matter.

I hope you are right.

Nothing would make me happier in sports, than the Ethnikh doing well in Portugal :)

Even the possible PAO double, or the European Quarter finals, which I live for, cannot compare with a descent Euro 2004

Even third place in our group would be a success...

We can make up excuses, but the fact is, that the US, as big as it is, and as little interest as there is for soccer, they still have done more internationally in a few years than Greece

Are you sure Greece is better than Turkey?

I would LOVE to see that in the upcoming WC quals :tup:

"ELLADA, ZOUME,

STO EURO NA SE DOUME"

PEACE

[drakos13]

i would say at the moment Greece is a better side

in the years under rehagel we have changed plenty.

we have players on big european teams such as atletico, roma, werder, inter, and

untapped ones at Monaco, Ajax, Lille....

were very well organized and Turkey has been out of form and rebuilding - they are still a good team but im really sure we are better than them now, the EURO is going to be valuable experience in clutch games and were gonna be ready for them. and if PAO wins this year i think it will make the league more competive than it is - its gotten a lot better, teams are fairly balanced now compared to what they used to be, look at bottom table Aris beating Aigaleo the other day, Xalkidona and Agaleo still new teams in this division are doing great especially Xalkidona who just came up and now are in contention for a european spot.

[jcl_jcl2002]

He didnt show that at the world cup. He scored 2 goals. one of them was a header from 3 feet away completly unmarked vs Mexico, nice goal but credit only derves to go to the sender there. the other was trash vs poland conselation goal. He had too many chances vs Germany and could have finished there. i dont care how in form Kahn was, Bottom line when your one on one you should score. Its a combination of the goalie being good and you sucking, not just the goalie being too good.

Sure the Mexico goal was a slam dunk and I agree, almost all of the kudos goes to Eddie Lewis for the great cross. But he had a goal taken away against Poland right after Manoli scored which should've counted. He used his body to keep the goalie away from the ball and head it into the net and it was taken away just like Marc Wilmots' goal against Brazil. He also took the shot that hit Rui Jorge and went in an counted as an own goal. That shot was from a pretty bad angle. Overall, I thought he was pretty decent. The one on ones against Kahn are another thing. The kid was barely 20 and had very little international experience. The fact that he managed to get into that position behind the tough German defense is an accomplishment in itself. But of course he could've should've finished...As for the Greece v. USA, I think it'd be quite interesting. I think it'd be a 2-2 tie. I think Nikopolidis is just as good when in form as Brad Friedel or Tim Howard so roughly, they are equal on goalkeeping terms(roughly, and it can be debated if you want). You brought up Cobi Jones, TT, and Wolff. Jones hasn't played a game since the World Cup for the NT so that's kinda unfair of u to bring him up. But I agree that he blows...TT's good in the air and has a powerful shot but can't set up his own goal for anything and for that reason will never get anywhere legit. But there are big forwards on the US. For one thing, Kirovski is very strong. He similarly can't score for sh*t but he's good in the air too. Donovan is the only one who would give them any problems because of his speed. The only other American who will be a good forward any time soon is Kenny Cooper who's 19 and is the top scorer on the ManU reserves and is 6 foot 5...Beasley's quick and he'd have a hard time getting around Fyssas, but if Takis were caught up field, there'd be NO way that he'd catch the kid. He was EVERYWHERE against Holland and he played very well against Poland. I don't know if you saw those games drako but that's what I though...As for the midfields, they would be pretty even overall(at least in the middle). John O'Brien and Claudio Reyna would be an interesting match for the aging Zags and Tsartas. If Basinas were in there though things would be different. Overall I'd give Greece a slight edge in the midfield. U can't see any defender stopping Vryzas? I can understand Demi and Paps (Demis himself is pretty small and Pope might, just migh give him a hard time because of his size and aerial superiority) but Vryzas? That guy's had the worst year and is sucking in Serie B! I love the guy but he's not in form right now at all...just my opinion...not that I'm saying the USA defense is immaculate cus they've got kreata for sure like Hejduk etc. but I think guys like Bocanegra and Gibbs are becoming very strong and adept...Gibbs handled RVN pretty well in the Holland game...btw the US only lost 1-0 in that one whereas Greece didn't fair as well...Oh, and I definetely agree that King Otto beats the Bruce...But overall both teams I think can potentially be on level terms with Greece having a slight advantage...but then again, it depends where the game's played. If you play it @ the Leoforo there's no way that Greece loses. Donovan'd be suckin his thumb and he'd be fakin injuries and all...again, it's about the passion and that's where Greece comes out on top...just my opinion :tup:

But you gotta admit, it'd be an interesting game to watch...

[drakos13]

!!!!!!!!!!!!! a 2-2! what are you insane! ? u forget the USA

SUCKS right now.

They couldnt score on a B Mexico side - a country who has always sucked ass at defense anyways--- just a garbage goal at the end i wont count.

America who has no offense- scoring against One of the better defenses in europe??????????????????????????????????????????

s%$#! spain, portugal, sweden, bulgaria, switzerland couldnt score 2 goals on us.

Ok we had 1 bad game vs Holland - thats because he screwed with the lineup and made wholsale changes ... but our defense is better than most of the countries in the tournament this year, Spain, Portugal are mediocre, England just suck at everything, France and Italy are better, Germany suck as. We are really organized and really talented back there.

Taylor Twellmen is horrendous. There is no way he can handle defenders like Dellas, Dabizas, Kirgiakos, they are on a different scale.

And eddie pope. come on that guy sucks ass. I see him getting bitched in the MLS!

Demis and Papa and Aggelos would tear him up. Vryzas i dont know....

Maybe Fyssa wouldnt catch Beasley, but the guy has no touch. Speed alone he has.

Greece would win. anywhere. the USA has nobody really special, Not nearly as organized and diciplined.

aslo Donovan's "goal" vs Portugal --- that wasnt a shot and that was so damn lucky he deserves no credit. it was out on the wing with no angle hits a player, the goalpost and a piece of the keeper i think who sucked ass that game anyways and in.

[Thrilos15]

What's with all the anger against US payers and the MLS? I'm a Greek-American who roots for both countries to do well on team and individual player level. Soccer has struggled to find it's niche here in the US and it seems to have done so finally. Why be such a hater?

Let's face it, when the US puts it's mind to being good in a sport, they will accomplish it due to the sheer size of the talent pool, facilities and funding. No other country has the tools that the US has.

It was no fluke the US did so well in the last World Cup and they'll inevitabley do better. Get used to it. Have you seen any US national team games lately? They're not only good, but fun to watch. You only have to compare what the US did in Holland early in the year to what Greece did recently in order to get some legitimate comparison.

I'm incredibley proud of what the Greek National Team has done lately and will be rooting them on in EURO 2004. And I always root for European teams with Greek players. Definitely rooting for Monaco with Zikos in the Champions League final.

No reason you can't like both countries. There's enough hate these days. Why include it in sports? ;)

[drakos13]

hey dont get me wrong. Im a Greek/American too.

I love America.

BUT I HATE THE WAY IT TREATS THE WORLDS GREATEST SPORT.

The arrogant aspect of the American culture interferes in the one thing nobody can truly dominate.

US has not brought it into the culture, a major reason for failure and why it will not succeed.

If the US puts its mind to it- i still dont think they can do it. Look at england. they definitly DONT dominate (or anywhere close for that matter) and they have facilities everywhere and money and everyoneplays it. yes they are good, but this is thanks mostly to the euro competition. America can get better i feel but there is definitly a limit.

and yes IT WAS A FLUKE

USA - PORTUGAL 3-2 allowed 2 goals from one of the crappiest performance in portugals history well done USA to taking advantage of it.

USA - KOREA 1-1. Wow. Impressive (Korea later moved on to cheat the tournament, so not bad but theyre still lousy)

USA - POLAND 1 - 3 A must win/have result match, unless 'hot' Portugal after a 4-0 drubbing of Poland can manage to lose to Korea. also their first REAL encounter, since portugal was awful. And Poland wins 3-1. And Portugal proceeds to get 2 players sent off and lose the match and still come within an inch of tying. 1 inch and stupid Joao Pinto got the USA through.

Vs MExico ref didnt give the penalty when Berhalter punched the ball clear (hes a right back not a keeper) not saying only reason US won, but Mexico was dominating the hell out of that game and deserved a fair call as such

vs Germany - makes some good scoring chances and cant finish - Germany may have been finalists but still mediocre. Only real accomplishments were beating Cameroon and Paraguay be honest. a tie with ireland, beating saudis and korea... po po

and it ends there. this was the chance for the small countries (USA, Korea, Senegal, Turkey (not too small but not expected for 3rd) etc. to shine in this WC cuz all the big ones didnt show. USA didnt really "kick ass", dude. Dont be surprised when they dont make it past the group stage. the US just scraped by a B mexico side... Theyre a decent team, I would like to compare them to Australia, or Japan, as having some players that can ball, occasionaly throw in an impressive performance, not an easy match but the view in America is just ridiculous after one cup. A lot of people there know nothing about the sport, dont follow it or anything and assume that america is the best in the world at soccer. it disgusts me.

Also the comparisons are retarted.

oh USA lost only 1-0 to holland so there better than greece cuz they lost 4-0.

matches change and circumstances change here are some examples.

Monaco - Deportivo 8-3

Real Madrid - Monaco 4-2

Deportivo - Real 2-0 . some how doesnt fit does it. Its cuz The game changes everytime. you need to make better comparisons than this holland bs. cuz its garbage. greece was undefeated 15 games. are players were in the heart of the competive season. wholesale changes were made at the second half allowing 3 goals MENTION THAT.

[Yaniotis1]

The u.s. national team should be even compared to the Greek N.T.

[drakos13]

u mean shoudnt im sure :D

[Thrilos15]

Got to keep it short. Got to run to a meeting. Quick thoughts:

MLS is definitely not a quality soccer league.

US national team is ranked consistently in the top 10 in the World for a reason. Granted they were lucky to make it out of round 1 in the last World Cup but they deservedly beat Mexico (and have done so again since). They were a better side than Germany but that's soccer. Sometimes you lose even when you're better.

I pray for the best for Greece at EURO 2004 but fear the worst like the performance in the US World Cup. And my view is shared by many friends I've spoken to in Greece.

I'll try and check back later. But don't think anything I said is unreasonable.

[drakos13]

those rankings are appallingly off. they always are. US gets points for winning a lot of games- while teams like Bulgaria who are at least just as good get no credit cuz they have to play against ACTUAL teams.

USA was not better than Germany. Germany beat the USA, and Korea. not that they were very good that year anyways despite being finalists.

and USA just barely made it past a B mexico side doesnt say anything.

speaking of being beter and losing did you happen to watch the Mexico vs USA game? Mexico dominated the hell out of it....

[Thrilos15]

Ranking national teams is a joke since they play so infrequently. And I'd have to rank at least half the EURO 2004 squads over the US and that's just European teams obviously. But still Greece has a long way to go on that level.

I hope Greece will keep up the improvement on the National team level but you're in the extreme minority if you honestly believe Greece is and has been better than the US over the last 10 years and presently.

I'm not sure what US-Mexico game you're specifically talking about. But the US deserved to win Korea and just recently absolutely dominated Mexico in a friendly that they were unlucky to win by only 1-0. I love both the US and Greek teams so I can honestly say I'm not biased. I wish Greece had been as succesful as the US on the national level, especially after Turkey did so well in the last World Cup.

We obviously disagree but that's ok. I think it must be my username that irks you. :D

Bravo sas gia to Kupelo kai to protathlima tha to parete sigoura! Tou xronou omos prosekse ton Thrilo pali!

[mk21]

The U.S. plays in a much easier region so the record will be much better than Greece. Technically Greece is a much better team than the U.S. And I find it hard to believe that the U.S. will become an elite team anytime in the near future. But the game has changed drastically in the last 20 years. And a team can go far based on speed and strength and all around athleticism and overcome technical shortcomings. Thats where the U.S. can sneak in and go far in a major competition. Greece is making strides in this by having Otto as the coach and also by having players play abroad in serious leagues where they are properlly trained.

[drakos13]

yes i do hate youre name and team. so im gonn evolve the original topic of adu to usa national team to i hate Olympiakos. :)

so here we go, obviously the ship needs wind to sail so here you are:

Oly sucks, PAO is better. :D

-Georgatos doesnt deserve such a badass first name for a piece of crap like him.

(we all wish we could be named Grigori :D )

-Castillo should quit and open a taco stand.

-Djordjevic should dive like he always does- but this instance off a cliff to his death. :(

-Xoutos should go back and live with his parents.

-Eleftheropoulos should go to jail and change his name to Fylakismenopoulos

-Giannou can stay

-Giovanni can stay though i hate him

-Kuzba - does anyone really give a crap about this guy

-Alefantos - should lose his temper more

-Venetidis - to hel

- Anatolakis - should play for Kavala

-Gkonias - will work on the Gonia begging

-Vallas - can stay

-Kafes - will work as a kafetzhs obvioulsy

Rest of team - will be made into meat for gyro (see gyro vs donerkebab thread ;) )

:lol: :lol: :lol:

all in good fun guys...

[Thrilos15]

Poli kalos!

Kai simfono me ta pio polla gia ton Olympiako.

[Yaniotis1]

yes i do hate youre name and team. so im gonn evolve the original topic of adu to usa national team to i hate Olympiakos. :)

so here we go, obviously the ship needs wind to sail so here you are:

Oly sucks, PAO is better. :D

-Georgatos doesnt deserve such a badass first name for a piece of crap like him.

(we all wish we could be named Grigori :D )

-Castillo should quit and open a taco stand.

-Djordjevic should dive like he always does- but this instance off a cliff to his death. :(

-Xoutos should go back and live with his parents.

-Eleftheropoulos should go to jail and change his name to Fylakismenopoulos

-Giannou can stay

-Giovanni can stay though i hate him

-Kuzba - does anyone really give a crap about this guy

-Alefantos - should lose his temper more

-Venetidis - to hel

- Anatolakis - should play for Kavala

-Gkonias - will work on the Gonia begging

-Vallas - can stay

-Kafes - will work as a kafetzhs obvioulsy

Rest of team - will be made into meat for gyro (see gyro vs donerkebab thread ;) )

:lol: :lol: :lol:

all in good fun guys...

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Classic Post

[drakos13]

If we have any illusions that Greece and the protathlima are so much better than the US NT and the MLS, I have a bitter reminder:

Holland - US 1-0

Holland - Greece 4-0

I wish it were not true, but we are not better than the "Americanakia"...

TWRA AYFTA TA LOGIA TA 'FAGES :la: