Xanthi v. Panathinaikos

[Euro2004]

We do need defenders and we weren't great at the back today against a side that is generally toothless in attack. Overall it was a good performance though. We were always in control and there was never a doubt that we'd win in my opinion

[NikosVazelas]

I dont think today was our defenders fault.. I think even with Maldini in the back.. all the pressure was coming from the fact that Kats and Kara did nothin to help defensively.

Kats got the assist on the first Cisse goal and other then breakin up one play in the 80th.. he was invisible.. Kara was really bad for a 4th straight game

[Euro2004]

I dont think today was our defenders fault.. I think even with Maldini in the back.. all the pressure was coming from the fact that Kats and Kara did nothin to help defensively.

Kats got the assist on the first Cisse goal and other then breakin up one play in the 80th.. he was invisible.. Kara was really bad for a 4th straight game

Yeah this is pretty pretty accurate. I still think the defence should have done better on the goal but by and large they did ok.

I agree with EVERYTHING Cyberfish says about Karagounis, from his set pieces only being good when inswinging from the left, to his best best position being on the left and cutting in. Karagounis simply can't play in central midfield. He's too immobile and can't tackle. He works his arse off but he's just too ineffective.

As for Katsouranis, this guy really needs a kick up the backside. He's so lazy!

[cyberfish]

I finally finished watching the second half.

I can summarize the game like this:

Panathinaikos = 2 goals, two shots to the post, one shot to the crossbar, two missed tete-a-tetes, one penalty not awarded, and a couple more good chances missed.

Xanti = 1 goal, one shot to the post, a lot of running around.

About our team, I am disturbed that we can't hold the ball in midfield. We look sloppy, disjointed, undisciplined and have reverted to playing a two-zone defensive game. I'd like to see better midfield play please and more control. But as long as we rack up the points I am a happy camper.

Regarding the players, we need to get Vintra back to CB. He is very average on the right and Bjarsmyr is pretty average imo. I know Kante got a bad name by screwing up badly in preseason, but he has been actually not too bad in the last few games.

Katsouranis plays like crap most of the time but he seems to have at least one game-changing play in just about every game. Same today. He came up with the assist in the first goal that made this a comfortable game, and he even had a shot that grazed the crossbar. Gilberto has been playing all alone in midfield most of the time in the last few games, and spyropoulos had a better game than he had against Ergoteli. Karagounis destroyed more than he created and Leto was mostly quiet despite a few moments of brilliance. Salpi looked distracted to me and was pretty lethargic. Tzorvas did well most of the time but he gave me the creeps the way he came out and waved at the ball as it went by on a high cross.

Christodoulopoulos was the best player on the pitch. He came in 77 and his force field alone made all Xanthi players faint as Cisse flew by everyone to score. The only error Christodoulopuolos made was that he delayed to shut down the force field causing Bjarsmyr (and maybe Vintra too) to wake up from his nap in time to watch Souani fly by on his way to finding the net. I hope Nioblias gets him to work on this force field thingy during the week.

:band:

[PAO_OR_DEATH]

where is pao or death. I hope he didn't forget to set his alarm

yea bsically i forgot it was a saturday game, and was out till about 6am nz time neway so i think i missed the game live hhsahahah

[PAO_OR_DEATH]

well i am happy we won this match, i am so shocked with cisse, how the hell does he do it, i mean we were all calling him a fraud when he said he'd put 20 goals down this season,, s%$#! 14 games to go and he's almost there hahahahaha

seriously he is a great man, i hope we can keep him here......

[Euro2004]

well i am happy we won this match, i am so shocked with cisse, how the hell does he do it, i mean we were all calling him a fraud when he said he'd put 20 goals down this season,, s%$#! 14 games to go and he's almost there hahahahaha

seriously he is a great man, i hope we can keep him here......

He's been great in the league, but he's like Chris Boyd for Rangers at the moment. He destroys the smaller teams but can't score against the stronger teams. Boyd has been like this for years and he actually doesn't usually start against Celtic and in Europe as a result. Of course I'm not suggesting this for Cisse but it's interesting to consider the comparison. Cisse will only convince 100% when he starts scoring against the strong teams.

[NikosVazelas]

I somewhat agree with you euro.. however... he didnt start vs AEK, he played under HTC which is a completely different system...Under Nioplias Cisse has 8 goals in 4 games... including europe.

We played so defensively in europe that we couldnt expect him to score.

Against Oly, we played with 4 DM come on man...

Last year we couldnt beat Ergotelis (twice), Iraklis (twice), Tripoli(twice), Serres(twice) thats seven games against little teams that cost us 16 points.

If we had those extra 16 points last year.... we win the championship

We still have a whole other round of games.. and when we played Paok Aris and Aek in the first round.. Cisse wasnt hot like he is now.

and he still managed 2 assists in those 3 games. but he didnt ''put the ball in the net'..you are right

[cyberfish]

Niko, why do you say " under HTC was a completely different system"?

I am just curious because it looks like nothing changed to me. Lineup and formation are the same. I just noticed a general anarchy and sloppiness under Nioblilas, and against Xanthi we played 10 men behind midfield most of the game.

I think the only reason we don't hear complains is because the usual complainers won't start attacking Nioblias until later. I personally laugh every time a reported mentions that we play 4-3-3 now while the exact same system/lineup was called 4-5-1 under HTC (planting in the fans minds the idea that we now play more attacking football since fans erroniously conceive of 4-5-1 as a conservative formation).

If anything, we haven't been pressing high as much as we used to, and we don't create as many chances. On the other hand we've been scoring more with less chances. But to round up this argument I should point out that so far under Nioblias we played the worst defenses in the league (and the worst offenses): Iraklis 23 goals against, Giannina 24 goals in their net, Ergotelis 19 goals conceded, Xanthi 17 goals. Every single opponent so far in the Nioblias era is a bottom feeder fighting for relegation.

The way I see it, Nioblias is trying to fix the "defensive" problems by getting more players behind the ball. Nioblias does the exact same things that HTC did except now the "complainers" have been quiet. Putting Tziolis in as a third DM in the end against small teams to hold the score in the end got Peseiro fired and got HTC in hot water. Subbing Leto for Christodoulopouls in Xanthi whould have everyone up in arms if HTC had done it.

Nioblias is on his honeymoon but he won't be forever. Did anyone noticed how the question about getting a "rotation" going because some players "look tired" creeped in the press conference on Saturday? There is no logic in Greek football. I just hope we keep riding the momentum to the end of the season.

I don't mean to start a HTC v Niob argument but I respect your opinion and wanted to know what you see as "different" while I don't.

[NikosVazelas]

Ill explain my opinion of the differences.. in the 4-2-3-1 and 4-3-3

Under HTC... The two wingers in the 4-2-3-1 say Leto and Ninis would more times then not... come from behind The CF and Pull out towards the flank... and allow the middle man in the 3 man AM midfield to attack the box and the trailer behind him... namely Katsouranis to come from behind....

Under Nioplias we have more of a 4-3-3 with Cisse playing very high and The two LF and RF playing alot closer to thebox. thats the dfference... where as before... Leto and salpi would be closer to Ninic in the 3 man midfield.... now they are on the same line as Cisse.Now the three midfielders venture up high and less resposibility offensively are given to the fulll backs.

You have Kats giving an assist yesterday. Gilberto playin brilliantly with Iraklis, giannena and Xanthi and Kara, whos been in real poor form all season, in the box and scoring vs Ergotelis. In fact during that goal... u have if uwatch it again... Kats, Cisse, Ninis, Kara and Salpi in the box. thats 5 players in the box... Totally unheard of during the HTC regime.

As for yesterday... 10 man behind the ball? Really? We pressed high and kept the ball between our 4 forward players because Kats and Kara were out of form. And we still had 3 posts, two great chances, two goals, a non penalty called and an offisde which wasnt and should of been a goal with Cisse.

Besides, an away game vs Olympiakos B team , where their players hustled more then anything..... is prob not the right time to judge the team in a whole.. especially with no Simao, Kats and Kara out of form and Gilberto covering everyones ass. WE HAD TO USE TZIOLIS FFS

We played with no midfield and we did ok. :P

Goback to the first game of the season. In Ergo. We had 3 goals. 1 other chance adn a whole lot of show by Leto.

But ergotelis had 3 really good chances and we were lucky not to conceed.

Think of the anarchy we showed against Oly, GAlata, Kavala, Panthrakikos and Dinamo as away games under HTC.

Think of the giannena game.. Remember the cut into the box by salpi and Leto missing a wide open net from 5 meters. If u look back at the tapes ull see a huge difference in the offensive outloook and Cisse is not alone in the box anymore.. there are more people to guard in the box hence freeing upDjibs alot more..

Perhaps explaining the 8 goals in 4 games by the 3 footed man?

AgainstGiannena and Ergotelis we had 39 shots on goal.

Yesterday we had 3 posts, two goals, two other great cances, a non penlty called and we were playign against arguably one of the best defensive teams in their park.

The Iraklis game was our weakest performance but it was 3 days after He got hired.

I agree the media is confused but there are slight changes that make a huge difference.

[cyberfish]

Hey that was quick! thanks! your points make sense.

[NikosVazelas]

Look at Iraklis and Xanthi defence at home.... HUGE Difference.We also scored 3 goals against Dinamo at home... before that in europe we only scored 1 goal in the other 2 home games we played.

Its not the quantity of chances its the quality of chances that has changed,Against Tripoli, we had 21 shots.. but we had 4 REALLY good chances....Quantity not quality.

Cisse alone has had 8 or 9 tete a tetes. In 4 games...

Im not sayin Nioplias is doing miracles..

But he free'd up the players enough to play better.

It was quick because I jus logged in... talk about timing..

Im gonna watch Aris vs Iraklis..

I love this derby.. usually great matches

[Euro2004]

I have to say, i agree with Cyber. Nioblias hasn't changed much in my opinion, except the psychology of the players perhaps. Nioblias will come under fire very soon because as Cyber says there's no logic in Greek football. I hope Niko is right, we'll see

[Kojak]

I still agree with cyber....

The media has hammered this so called nioplias 4-3-3 into us, whether its by mentioning it in every article or cleverly showing it in the lineup card on TV with leto/salpi in the same line as cisse.

The only difference is, nioplias has given certain players free reign, whereas Ten Cate was militant about holding positions and lines.

Take spyropoulos, im sure ten cate would have been blasting him for being out of position 90% of the time these past few games instead of pushing up, pushing in the middle, leaving a man outside etc( Cisse cover tackle in defence). but with nioplias players are encouraged to use there own abilities, intuition, and not have the fear of getting screamed at during the game or in the sheds.

Theres always a downside to that sort of mentality, and thats getting blown off the park, by an organised, disciplined football team and i sincerely hope its not roma.

I like nioplias , im happy hes our No1 man now, however i dont like been thought of as a fool by the greek media, and so called pundits.

ohh and cyber, you asked about bryce moon in another post...i will say one thing, he will unfortunately never play in a PAO shirt again, he will be sold off once the deal with PAOK is finished. Till then i will keep my avatar in homage to the monobrowed scooter.

[Euro2004]

We still have a whole other round of games.. and when we played Paok Aris and Aek in the first round.. Cisse wasnt hot like he is now.

and he still managed 2 assists in those 3 games. but he didnt ''put the ball in the net'..you are right

It's not just these games. The opponents that I consider to be of a strong calibre are: Olympiakos, Galatasary twice, Atletico twice, Sparta Prague, AEK, PAOK & Aris. He hasn't scored against any of them.

Don't get me wrong, he's done brilliantly. Alot better than I expected but he won't convince me 100% until he does it in the big games. I'm not convinced that Nioblias has changed that much. Time will tell of course and i hope you're right.

[PAO_OR_DEATH]

ok i just watched the highlights on athlitiki kiriaki and it says cisse has sored 15 goals in the league,

he is a frightening man, seriously cisse is the new messiah for PAO

hahahahah

and all he cares about is the title!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

my friends i am getting excited, +5