Atletico Madrid v. Panathinaikos

[NYPAO13]

vyntra :tdown: :tdown: :tdown: :tdown: :tdown:

galinovich :tdown: :tdown: :tdown:

katsouranis :tdown: :tdown:

gabriel :tdown: :tdown: :tdown: :tdown:

moon :tdown: :tdown: :tdown:

we didnt get lucky with the draw. we drew one of the more difficult teams. have you seen some of teams that went through?

to think we coulda sold vyntra for 1.8 mil & moon for 1.5. whats their value now?

[drakos13]

Good post Kojak and Euro. I agree. My critique of certain moves apply to the individual decisions on the particular game. In my mind it's under the same category as criticizing a player's play on the pitch. In no way do I think we should be changing coaches. We'll judge the club at the end of the season.

We fans know so little and most of the time read the tea leaves, trying to predict what will happen.

Really, because the vast majority of the time, we've been right. Ten Cate has been here only so long. We have seen and followed this team for lifetimes, I have played football too and watched football my whole life. We often have a keen sense what blows, because we watch Superleague every year.

PAO was never a team to give out goals like a Fillipino whore at home even vs big opponents. What on earth happened. We had some bad losses away before but at home, respectbale. Now we can't even defend with home advantage. Do you really need to be a manager to spot a miserable defense? I doubt it. We gave HTC to the end of the season, and we forgave him. Now we've seen a team lost 3/5 of our games this season, and conceeded 8 goals already.

And now were saying patience again? For what exactly? For the football to get worse? For the bitching and team unity to fall out more? For more good players to leave even though theyre still quite useful to the club, and keep scraps? What is it we are waiting for, to admit the OBVIOUS.

I'm a mega PAO fan in whatever venture or sport that wears the Trifylli, so don't seriously insult me and the forums by claiming I'm not dedicated because I loathe passionatley the way things are being done right now.

I cannot seriously be the only person that sees our offense get more talent yet we are playing long ball, or that our defensive line is not replenished and worse as ever, terrible decisions all around, petty internal conflicts and stubborness (poor personel management) , ignoring transfer options and yet we've still got people saying the coach needs time - hypnotized by his talk and his previous resume.

He's had 2 full summers and 1 season. Its not at all ridiculous to give the ultimatum and demand improvement by now. He's getting all the opportunity and support in the world, and failing.

Obviously I dont want him to be gone now, that's unproductive. We still have a chance at the league. But if we fall 5-7 points behind in the Fall again....Off with his head.

The point of Ten Cate was to restore PAO to greatness, not take them from limbo of mediocrity that Peseiro had us in, straight down to hell. This is not greatness...cup losses, playoffs, weak derbies, worst defense in a decade (EASILY), first failed CL qualification stage in very long time (blame UEFA for that though), long ball......

Sure. We'll see how it ends up. No point ranting about this I cant change it unfortunately. I'm just shocked that all of a sudden patience is called for when things are looking worse. The only reason things don't look even worse for people are because of 2 fantastic individual talents in Leto and Cisse. But are they enough to carry us through Europe and Greece?

When so much else is lacking, my educated guess would be no. Am I going to support them, yes of course. I always want to see PAO on top of the league, and it will basically assure us of a CL favorable draw for the following year when we may finally, actually stop pretending this defense is anywhere near as competent as even the bad "old days".

[Euro2004]

You're correct Cyber, but having seen this article my confidence in the board has faded.

http://www.novasports.gr/soccer/anational/....asp?aid=186555 <_<

[GS1905]

guys, do not get me wrong on this. everyone here knows how badly I support PAO in all competitions. but the main pulp of my heart always supports Galatasaray ever since I knew myself. and after seeing GS's attacking options this year with the technical skills and flair of Arda and Kewell, the horsepower strength of Baros, the monster Keita and 'Mr I can do anything anytime' Elano, along with PAO's defensive torridness, I'll be hugely pleased if we drew PAO in the Europa League draw from the first pot on Friday. It will almost be certain we'll get at least 4 points from the two matches. Of course, unless PAO switch on the transfer button and bring in at least 3 decent defensive players...

[Euro2004]

guys, do not get me wrong on this. everyone here knows how badly I support PAO in all competitions. but the main pulp of my heart always supports Galatasaray ever since I knew myself. and after seeing GS's attacking options this year with the technical skills and flair of Arda and Kewell, the horsepower strength of Baros, the monster Keita and 'Mr I can do anything anytime' Elano, along with PAO's defensive torridness, I'll be hugely pleased if we drew PAO in the Europa League draw from the first pot on Friday. It will almost be certain we'll get at least 4 points from the two matches. Of course, unless PAO switch on the transfer button and bring in at least 3 decent defensive players...

This goes back to the issue of mentality. How on earth can it be that teams hope to draw Panathinaikos. We're supposed to be a CL team and yet we're undermined in the Europa League. We've fallen to this level because we're not aiming high enough in the transfer market.

[drakos13]

guys, do not get me wrong on this. everyone here knows how badly I support PAO in all competitions. but the main pulp of my heart always supports Galatasaray ever since I knew myself. and after seeing GS's attacking options this year with the technical skills and flair of Arda and Kewell, the horsepower strength of Baros, the monster Keita and 'Mr I can do anything anytime' Elano, along with PAO's defensive torridness, I'll be hugely pleased if we drew PAO in the Europa League draw from the first pot on Friday. It will almost be certain we'll get at least 4 points from the two matches. Of course, unless PAO switch on the transfer button and bring in at least 3 decent defensive players...

To be fair, when a Greek and Turkish team play it can resemble a derby, and derbies its more likley that anything can happen (i beleive). Maybe not so much PAO and GS, it seems like PAO and Fener are more hostile and GS and OSFP are hostile to each other- it makes perfect sense.

In my personal view:

The Athens team hates the team that is douchebag- populist dominated in Turkey from what is basically Istanbul but kind of "not" (Fenerbahce).

The Turkish team from Istanbul hates teh team that is douchebag-populist dominated in Greece from what is basically Athens but kind of "not" (Olympiakos)

And then there is Besiktas the Eagle team who is famous for not being as important a rival as the other two --- and then there is AEK, the Eagle team who is famous for not being as important a rival as the other two.

Against us, GS would be huge favourites. Putting 3-4 goals in a game and a really solid team and coach. Good luck to them, I hope we do NOT draw GS, for I also support them in their efforts. Despite that I do think we could get a high scoring draw or win against them in Athens though.

[Clover22]

I told you guys I was wasting my time.

[Clover22]

I have to agree with Drakos here and I'm glad he brought up the fact that T.C. left out Spyro because of a personal grudge. He also had a problem with Ivan and Goumas, right? I was told over a year ago that this guy had some attitude problems and difficulty getting along with people. You DO NOT leave players out because you don't like them; a coach is supposed to be a unifier, not someone who punishes players like they're in 1st grade! The sooner this clown goes the better. And if you put aside the scorelines so far this season the fact is we haven't been playing good football!

[NikosVazelas]

Propo people dont forget to post

[Euro2004]

You DO NOT leave players out because you don't like them; a coach is supposed to be a unifier, not someone who punishes players like they're in 1st grade!

But the players must also follow orders like a soldier listens to his general. If the soldier is a renegade he can jeopadise a mission. As long as a manager is at the helm he must command the utmost respect.

When HTC first arrived at PAO he warned the players that anyone telling the press of what goes on in the dressing room will never play for the team under him. I read somewhere that Goumas was the guy telling the press everything. What was HTC supposed to do when he learned that?

Now he rips into Spyropoulos for s%$#! performance. Instead of the player apologising and keeping his mouth shut he starts shouting and squaring up to HTC. Greek teams (whether the national team or clubs) have been in turmoil on numerous occassions because of players with an attitude that think they are bigger than the club. Georgatos, Choutos, Tsartas, Eleftheropoulos, etc.

If Spyro was at Man Utd and he had a nightmare game and Fergusen was shouting at him would he have shouted back? He wouldn't have done so because he wouldn't want to be shipped out. Because Man Utd and Fergusen have an aura that Spyro couldn't mess with and he'd be delighted to be at the club and he wouldn't have wanted to jeopadise that. So shouldn't he treat PAO with the same respect? Moon was also s%$#! and HTC shouted at him, he didn't act like a big shot tough guy though and he played the next game.

Discipline is the key to a top team and Greeks teams have always lacked that. Bajevic is a strict disciplinarian and that's why he's the most successful manager in Greek football.

I'll criticise HTC for some mistakes, but when he's right, he's right. Whether or not he's the right man for this job is debatable, but he certainly has the best interests of the club at heart and he's not driven by his ego. As a man I like him, as a coach I'm on the fence, but we shouldn't blur these 2 issues.

[Akritis_1944]

Dissapointing re paides.

Leto was the best player on the pitch. You got yourselves a potential superstar, though he is proned to that undisciplined Latino streak.

Anyway a word on Katsouranis. He was dissapointing but at times showed that he can rise above the mediocrity.

He has/had the potential to be one of the best players in his position in the world. No i'm not free-basing crystal meth nor have I raided my papous raki. He has everything for a top midfielder.

The guy has fitness/strength/skill/vision/patience but it's all gone to nothing really. He has that typical lazy effing Greek nootropria that will condemn him to an avarage jerk.

Good luck playing Europa. Hope you guys get it together.

[TRIFILARA]

But the players must also follow orders like a soldier listens to his general. If the soldier is a renegade he can jeopadise a mission. As long as a manager is at the helm he must command the utmost respect.

When HTC first arrived at PAO he warned the players that anyone telling the press of what goes on in the dressing room will never play for the team under him. I read somewhere that Goumas was the guy telling the press everything. What was HTC supposed to do when he learned that?

Now he rips into Spyropoulos for s%$#! performance. Instead of the player apologising and keeping his mouth shut he starts shouting and squaring up to HTC. Greek teams (whether the national team or clubs) have been in turmoil on numerous occassions because of players with an attitude that think they are bigger than the club. Georgatos, Choutos, Tsartas, Eleftheropoulos, etc.

If Spyro was at Man Utd and he had a nightmare game and Fergusen was shouting at him would he have shouted back? He wouldn't have done so because he wouldn't want to be shipped out. Because Man Utd and Fergusen have an aura that Spyro couldn't mess with and he'd be delighted to be at the club and he wouldn't have wanted to jeopadise that. So shouldn't he treat PAO with the same respect? Moon was also s%$#! and HTC shouted at him, he didn't act like a big shot tough guy though and he played the next game.

Discipline is the key to a top team and Greeks teams have always lacked that. Bajevic is a strict disciplinarian and that's why he's the most successful manager in Greek football.

I'll criticise HTC for some mistakes, but when he's right, he's right. Whether or not he's the right man for this job is debatable, but he certainly has the best interests of the club at heart and he's not driven by his ego. As a man I like him, as a coach I'm on the fence, but we shouldn't blur these 2 issues.

No offence to others who post in this forum, but of all the dribble and nonsence that is written in here(i wont name names), Euro2004 my friend it looks like you are only one of a few people in here who truely understand football in its entirety.

Let this man do his work.........

Excellent post Euro :tup:

[Clover22]

But the players must also follow orders like a soldier listens to his general. If the soldier is a renegade he can jeopadise a mission. As long as a manager is at the helm he must command the utmost respect.

When HTC first arrived at PAO he warned the players that anyone telling the press of what goes on in the dressing room will never play for the team under him. I read somewhere that Goumas was the guy telling the press everything. What was HTC supposed to do when he learned that?

Now he rips into Spyropoulos for s%$#! performance. Instead of the player apologising and keeping his mouth shut he starts shouting and squaring up to HTC. Greek teams (whether the national team or clubs) have been in turmoil on numerous occassions because of players with an attitude that think they are bigger than the club. Georgatos, Choutos, Tsartas, Eleftheropoulos, etc.

If Spyro was at Man Utd and he had a nightmare game and Fergusen was shouting at him would he have shouted back? He wouldn't have done so because he wouldn't want to be shipped out. Because Man Utd and Fergusen have an aura that Spyro couldn't mess with and he'd be delighted to be at the club and he wouldn't have wanted to jeopadise that. So shouldn't he treat PAO with the same respect? Moon was also s%$#! and HTC shouted at him, he didn't act like a big shot tough guy though and he played the next game.

Discipline is the key to a top team and Greeks teams have always lacked that. Bajevic is a strict disciplinarian and that's why he's the most successful manager in Greek football.

I'll criticise HTC for some mistakes, but when he's right, he's right. Whether or not he's the right man for this job is debatable, but he certainly has the best interests of the club at heart and he's not driven by his ego. As a man I like him, as a coach I'm on the fence, but we shouldn't blur these 2 issues.

First off, would you actually call these players "renegades"? Secondly where did you read Goumas was the guy talking to the press?

He "rips into Spyro for his crap performance" how do you know exactly what was said and how do you know Spyro wasn't in the right for speaking his mind?

You speak of this "aura" at Manure United, but I don't think Fergusen deals w/ his players in the same way.

As a coach you're not so sure about him but as a man you like the guy. Thats a bit of a contradiction since part of being a good coach is knowing how to deal w/ people. You like how he relates to the players but you're not sure about his tactics, right? He already has a reputation for being difficult w/ people; I heard about this right when he was signed and we've seen the results. Are you a friend of his or something?

[Clover22]

But the players must also follow orders like a soldier listens to his general. If the soldier is a renegade he can jeopadise a mission. As long as a manager is at the helm he must command the utmost respect.

When HTC first arrived at PAO he warned the players that anyone telling the press of what goes on in the dressing room will never play for the team under him. I read somewhere that Goumas was the guy telling the press everything. What was HTC supposed to do when he learned that?

Now he rips into Spyropoulos for s%$#! performance. Instead of the player apologising and keeping his mouth shut he starts shouting and squaring up to HTC. Greek teams (whether the national team or clubs) have been in turmoil on numerous occassions because of players with an attitude that think they are bigger than the club. Georgatos, Choutos, Tsartas, Eleftheropoulos, etc.

If Spyro was at Man Utd and he had a nightmare game and Fergusen was shouting at him would he have shouted back? He wouldn't have done so because he wouldn't want to be shipped out. Because Man Utd and Fergusen have an aura that Spyro couldn't mess with and he'd be delighted to be at the club and he wouldn't have wanted to jeopadise that. So shouldn't he treat PAO with the same respect?  Moon was also s%$#! and HTC shouted at him, he didn't act like a big shot tough guy though and he played the next game.

Discipline is the key to a top team and Greeks teams have always lacked that. Bajevic is a strict disciplinarian and that's why he's the most successful manager in Greek football.

I'll criticise HTC for some mistakes, but when he's right, he's right. Whether or not he's the right man for this job is debatable, but he certainly has the best interests of the club at heart and he's not driven by his ego. As a man I like him, as a coach I'm on the fence, but we shouldn't blur these 2 issues.

No offence to others who post in this forum, but of all the dribble and nonsence that is written in here(i wont name names), Euro2004 my friend it looks like you are only one of a few people in here who truely understand football in its entirety.

Let this man do his work.........

Excellent post Euro :tup:

Go ahead and name names.

[Euro2004]

First off, would you actually call these players "renegades"? Secondly where did you read Goumas was the guy talking to the press?

He "rips into Spyro for his crap performance" how do you know exactly what was said and how do you know Spyro wasn't in the right for speaking his mind?

The details of the argument between HTC and Goumas and later Spyropoulos was all over the Greek media. I can't remember where I read about Goumas being the guy speaking to the press, it was a long time ago now but if you go back to the message boards you'll see that a few posters here were talking about it. As for the Spyropoulos saga it was reported by Sportdog.gr and numerous other Greek sports websites.

You speak of this "aura" at Manure United, but I don't think Fergusen deals w/ his players in the same way.

Are you sure about that?

Fergusen fell out with Beckham because he was upset with the conduct of Beckham's wife (always going to London and leaving the kids with him so he was late to training). The final straw was when he kicked a football boot at Beckham in the locker room and hit him on the head!

He transfer listed Ince because the player got a license plate on his car reading "Guvnor" which is a cockney term for "the boss" or "the man". He considered this arrogant and got rid of him.

He transfer listed Jaap Stam because he didn't like comments in his autobiography.

These weren't nobodies, they were stars at the club!

As a coach you're not so sure about him but as a man you like the guy. Thats a bit of a contradiction since part of being a good coach is knowing how to deal w/ people. You like how he relates to the players but you're not sure about his tactics, right? He already has a reputation for being difficult w/ people; I heard about this right when he was signed and we've seen the results. Are you a friend of his or something?

As you say, tactically i'm not sure but as a man he's a good guy. The late Bobby Robson was a wonderful man. Towards the end of his career he wasn't a very successful coach but he was always a nice man that wanted what was best. Antithetically someone like Mourinho is known as being an arrogant arse hole who ultimately cares for number one. Nonetheless he's one of the world's great managers. The 2 issues are exclusive to eachother.

TRIFILARA: Thanks for your support buddy :P