athinaios Posted August 25, 2009 Author Share Posted August 25, 2009 Let's see, I predicted 2-0 loss when I started this topic, but there are a few more minutes left and they seemed in a panic now.... Stupid fouls and cards.... Galinovic has been terrible against Atletico. Time for Tzorvas to replace him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evalagoal Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 M Haifa 3-0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genome Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 End of the game 2-0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakos13 Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Champions League? Look, Atletico was always going to be the favourite. I get that. But people do not seem to understand, that just because somebody is a favourite, all factors are excused. Conceeding 3 goals in OAKA - unacceptable. Going into a match needing 2-3 goals, and not starting Salpiggidis - retarted. Starting Darlas because youre mad a player stood up to you calling him out in front of his team ------ useless player management. That is not how to manage people. Especially when he has apologized. Our European games are not to make examples out of personal grudges. Ever. Speaking of LB's --- Kante remind you he was also signed as a CB/LB. He was supposed to back up Spyropoulos in caso di emergenza. HTC hasnt even played him a minute since that catastrophe, and even promoted Darlas to the team. Not that I disagree with him sucking at all, but if he sucks, put him on the transfer list and sign another player. "Just getting him" is not a valid excuse for hesitating on these things. Its a sunk cost. Why elongate something you know sucks, simply because you feel bad just bought him? I hope Seitaridis comes, I still want to win the league more than ever. He will be badly needed, along with 2 central defenders. Should have signed months ago, yet of course there was not a good reason why we cut our incomplete transfer season short in July. Greece beat Russia in basketball for those who were wondering. Exciting new faces on the team, still have some work to do though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenTitus Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Greece beat Russia in basketball for those who were wondering. Exciting new faces on the team, still have some work to do though. A lot of young talent but nowhere near Spain and definitely not a team that can be consistent during a long tournament. In any case, the way the two first stages are set up we 'll reach the playoffs and have a couple of exciting games. Obviously, I have nothing to say about the football... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakos13 Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 were not near spain sure. The team is practically brand new though, and were missing Diamantidis and Vasilopoulos. Keep in mind that in the future this team is going to get better, its got mad talent now, and were about to be reenfored by that great young generation, Nikos Pappas, Sloukas, Papanikolaou are coming up, and Koufos/Kalathes are only going to improve. Were definitley not going to be gold contenders, but a semifinal finish would be a great accomplishment for a brand new and injury struck team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikosVazelas Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 I would like to add a RB for sure. a CB hopefully and Definitely a keeper. Galinovic makes some great saves but allows the easy goals. 3 bad goals in 2 games is Unnacceptable. I cant believe Maccabi Haifa, Debrecen and Zurich are in the CL and we are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikosVazelas Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 HTC: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euro2004 Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 It's inexcusable that PAO have gone out in the manner that they have. PAO should NEVER lose at home. NEVER! It's excusable if we play one of the very elite teams: Barca, Man Utd, Real Madrid or Chelsea. Even then we should be fancying our chances of not losing. Consider that Anorthosis avoided defeat at home to Werder and Inter last year. Bate Borisov drew with Juve. Cluj drew at home with Chelsea. And I don't want to hear any rubbish about underestimation in these circumstances, because teams like Fener beat Inter at home, Besiktas beat Liverpool, etc. When we signed Cisse everyone here was raving about how big a signing he was. What did I say? He was average by European standards. Everyone said I was being negative, unrealistic, etc. I'm not the negative one. The PAO fans that accept these mediocre signings as great are the ones that are negative. Another poster who wasn't a PAO fan said the same thing (i can't remember if it was Crazy, DUDE or Genome) but he was right, and Athinaios touched on it tonight. The point I'm making is that our defeats are down to one thing: a poor mentality! Athinaos made the point earlier that he knew we'd lose when the PAO camp started saying things like "anything can happen in football". I've never seen a team say that and then win. In the first leg we played as if we were honoured to be on the same pitch as them. They're not that good, they have 4 players, siga tin omada! Last season Werder met Shakhtar in the final of the UEFA Cup, again, siga tes omades! We battered Werder last year, yet they went on to dominate, out play and beat Milan in the UEFA Cup last 16. If we'd met Milan we'd have played like xesmenoi! Why can a team like Werder take the game to Milan and yet we fear these teams? The mentality must change. We need to grow a pair and fast! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikosVazelas Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 I always thought Euro2004 Was DUDE... ahahah oh well.. I believe you are correct on many points... As for Cisse.. he is a bit better then what u say but not the greatest player to ever play on the pitch... He needs to be given service too though.. Leto ,Cisse,Ninis Kara up front I really like... Why not play that kid Bjarsmyr... why the reluctance.. playign him RB instead of CB makes no sense... Either way.... We need to grow a pair and face teams dead in the eye... the way played in the first half today.. sorta.. only without the aggregate disadvantage and without the own goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euro2004 Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 I always thought Euro2004 Was DUDE... ahahah oh well.. bite your tongue, he supports olympiakos :angry: :D Either way.... We need to grow a pair and face teams dead in the eye... the way played in the first half today.. sorta.. only without the aggregate disadvantage and without the own goal. I agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikosVazelas Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Dude... supports Oly in greece... In europe he supports all greek teams.. Where the hell IS Dude anyway.. I believe when the dust settles, we will see that its not that bad... Is Giourkas the answer.. I dont think so but maybe... anyone AT RB would be good now... CB etc etc etc.. I want to win the championship.... if we fail... then we react the way some here have.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genome Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Athinaos made the point earlier that he knew we'd lose when the PAO camp started saying things like "anything can happen in football". I've never seen a team say that and then win. In the first leg we played as if we were honoured to be on the same pitch as them. They're not that good, they have 4 players, siga tin omada!Yes this was incredibly annoying in the days before the game, with headlines in the press sounding something like "PAO needs a big miracle" etc ... granted your backline sucks but I still do believe that if some changes were made to the lineup and some different tactics were used PAO could have advanced. Seriously this was JUST Atletico, yes, a GOOD team but nothing more, no team that PAO should bow its head for. This is also the point I tried to make in the Vaslui thread for AEK. What is that with Greek teams? Inferiority complex?Where the hell IS Dude anyway.. Yes a few days ago with all the European games and while going through some older threads I was asking myself the same thing. Anyone have a clue where DUDE is? He just stopped posting one day, hope he's ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAO_OR_DEATH Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 that was the first time i have walked away from the TV, ten cate f*** OFF BACK TO THE DUTCHERLANDS seriously i see us loosing 3-0 to xanthi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakos13 Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 I want to win the championship.... if we fail... then we react the way some here have.... How many years of that are you willing to take? :LOL: It's been FIVE years since our last title. 2 in the last 15 years. Esp after last years huge dissapointment, being essentially "OUT" of the race what was obvious as early as OCTOBER. I The defense is every bit as bad as people say. It's worse than last year, and its unquestionably worse than the Peseiro era. To think that our best player from that era, still has not been replaced? Morris? I was tired of him and happy to see him go, but dear God, how the hell can we not replace or get somebody at least as 'good' as MORRIS was in TWO SEASONS WORTH OF TRANSFERS???? Why on earth did we even let him go, and then ---- sign nobody. Even Vyntra, one of our worst players who hung around from the Tzigger era, is not only STILL here, but is our priority CB. That's ridiculous. Is it not embarassing that Iraklis landed Matias Lequi this summer, and we bought frikking Cedric Kantplay, whose 1 month in and practically out of team plans. I think Bjarsmyr is a good rep. for Gkoumas at least - If were going to have a reserve to occasionally come on like that, they may as well be young and promising. But, last year we blew the protathlima, and had a lot of problems. One of them was defense. Its downright insutling that we'd not only field the same team, but even in our CL games take it a step down and put in Darlas over Spyropoulos, Kante instead of Jakub, and Nilsson be not replaced on the team. We are PANATHINAIKOS. That back line, is not anywhere NEAR the standard we've been used to or warrant, even in the Vardinogiannis era. I had plenty of patience with Ten Cate, but now everything is not only not showing badly needed improvement, but seems much worse. The football is unquestionably worse, and uglier. The defense is worse. The team was not ready out of preseason. The transfers are incomplete - AGAIN. Players left and were not replaced. Players worthy of staying and playing are being dropped from training, loaned out needlessly - all for HTC's IDIOTIC conception that the team will be better with less players. False. We'll have less depth, with less players. Players that COULD use a loan, are kept while we drop players that are worthy of playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakos13 Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 that was the first time i have walked away from the TV, ten cate f*** OFF BACK TO THE DUTCHERLANDS seriously i see us loosing 3-0 to xanthi Come on man, we'll beat Xanthi, and this drama will go off on until somebody in the management finally switches it OFF. Xanthi is not that good this year anyways. Worst we could do is 1-1 IMO. I think it'll be 2-1 or 3-1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikosVazelas Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Im willing to give the new doikisi a bit more then 12 months... One year is not enough for anyoen to turn this team around.... Vyntra, Seric Morris Biscan back 4 ..... We are definitely better than that man.... Sign a RB.. Play Bjarsmyr If not... You have 6 months..... than ill bitch louder then my ex gf during poker night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adonis Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 kante has been injured as of late which is why not in team plans lately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyberfish Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 I have to admit that today I was in despair watching this uninspired display on the pitch. It looked like a pre-ordained affair where one team was going through and the other just played dead so it won't suffer more. It was pretty sad. If we went there to play out the second leg without believing, it's the wrong thing to do and shows that we have not developed the winning attitude needed to win championships. If on the other hand it was just a night when nothing worked then we need to find ways to make things work. This kind of performance is unacceptable. I don't mind changes in the lineup, and I don't get too worried when this or that player doesn't start, but I expect by now that the coach knows what each player is capable of doing on the pitch. It seems to me since last season that Moon is completely inadequate to be starting in such games. Maybe someday he'll be good, but for now he is not helping the team any. I don't want to blame just him for our elimination from the CL, but in these two games the hole on the right of our defense was abysmal. Then, there is no reason to start Darlas on the left. Not that Darlas was that bad today, but it destroys our defensive cohesion when we plug in someone who has barely practiced with the team and only played with the rest one official game. Sure Spyropoulos was prety bad last game, but what has the coach seen (or anyone else who watches PAO) to make him believe that Darlas is any better? If he is just trying out players in official games we are in real trouble. This revolving door in our defense has been detrimental to any progress. Today the whole group was out of shape constantly. They bumped into each other and didn't know who to pick in the box. The offside trap is not even been attempted any more, and despite all the talk, none of our defenders contribute to ball circulation (besides passing to each other and then lobing the ball 50 meters down the field). Also, the coach should know by now what Gabriel is capable of doing. He has played some good games last season, but his form has been erratic, with more mediocre games than good. I'd like to think that the whole club made a strategic decision to give up the Champions League after the loss to Atletico in Athens. Looking ahead, we should focus all our energy in winning the Super League title this season. As an extra incentive, the Greek title holder will enter the CL groups without qualifiers next season, so we can begin inserting some normalcy into the team schedule. We should also do well in the Europa league, although with performances like today I don't see us moving far beyond the group stage. At least we'll be seeded in Friday's draw so we should avoid teams like Villarreal, Werder, Sahtar, Benfica, Ajax, etc. (according to this page ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikosVazelas Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/s...seedel2009.html. Pot 1 Werder Bremen Ger 91.339 Villarreal Esp 80.853 AS Roma *3 Ita 78.582 PSV Eindhoven *3 Ned 75.826 Shakhtar Donetsk @3 Ukr 74.370 Zenit St. Petersburg Rus 68.525 Hamburger SV *3 Ger 67.339 Benfica Por 64.292 Valencia Esp 59.853 Panathinaikos @4 Gre 56.633 Pot 2 Fenerbahce *3 Tur 52.445 FC Basel ** Sui 51.050 Lille OSC *3 Fra 47.033 Everton Eng 35.899 Club Brugge *3 Bel 34.065 Heerenveen Ned 33.826 Galatasaray ** Tur 33.445 Anderlecht @4 Bel 32.065 Pot 3 Hertha BSC Ger 26.339 Sparta Praha @3 Cze 26.150 Dinamo Bucuresti Rom 25.781 AEK Athens Gre 25.633 Slavia Praha @3 Cze 25.150 Metalist Kharkiv *3 Ukr 24.370 Levski Sofia @4 Bul 24.250 Aston Villa Eng 23.899 Athletic Bilbao *3 Esp 23.853 Pot 4 Dinamo Zagreb @3 Cro 16.466 Litex Lovech Bul 16.250 Fulham FC *3 Eng 15.899 CSKA Sofia *3 Bul 14.250 Toulouse FC Fra 14.033 CFR Cluj Rom 13.781 OB Odense *3 Den 12.890 FC Salzburg @4 Aut 6.565 FK Ventspils @4 Lat 2.832 THERE ARE STILL ANOTHER 10 TEAMS OR SO AWAITING CONFIRMATION... Wouldnt it be nice to pick off a group like this Pao Anderlecht Sparta Prague FK Ventspils Either way.. the draw is this Friday at 2pm Greece time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kojak Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 I think we may just have too high of an opinion on certain players, when really they are very average. Time and time again, when players should lift they dont. Only when a game is seemingly already won, do they suddenly perform exceptionely, and earn high praise. I can criticise ten cates decisions over and over, but one decision i wont is darlas for spyropoulos. YES spyropoulos is seemingly better, but its not like there is a massive gulf skill/talent between them, which scares me, because one is a starter an the other comes and goes every season... I also think none of the players that push us forward were in the game mentally, and part of that is the fear that even 1 mistake in midfield or attack, is practically a definite goal cause noone behind you is competent enough to recover. Leto looking great on the pitch, is partly because he has that argentinian arrogance, which leads to confidence, and also not really giving a crap if the guy behind you stuffs up cause hey you still look good.... Whereas players like kats, gilberto etc who excel in team play and hardwork, rather than individual brilliance are trying to avoid mistakes and play even more conservative tthan they already are, so there mistake doesnt end up a goal by a vyntra own goal, misskick. 1 thing is for sure, if mantzios, cleyton, melissis, tziolis, were half the players we thought they were, they would already be at another club for a decent transfer fee. Same goes for the guys that remained...there not as good as we think they are.... I still want ten cate to finish what he started, cause im sick of the changing of managers every year...but i highly doubt his next team will be anwhere near the stature of panathinaikos...cause most managers we end up sacking end up at mediocre teams...perfectly suited to there ability... Anyways we lost today cause our defence is worse than atletico's and our attack is worse than atletico's, but that doesnt mean that we are crap, just that they were better... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euro2004 Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 I'm with Nikosvazelas on giving the board more than 12 months. Things can change very quickly because unless Olympiakos make some major signings i do believe that PAO will win the league this year. However in my opinion this will only mask our weaknesses. With the exception of Aris and possibly PAOK are stronger than last year. AEK and Olympiakos have weakened significantly and although Iraklis have strengthened they can't mount a serious championship challenge. In other words the general trend seems to be in our favour, but in European terms we're simply not aiming high enough. I also think Ten Cate should be on a probation period because his decisions have been very questionable of late, not to mention the fact that he's allowed our play to deteriorate into a long ball game to Cisse. If Cisse can't cut it in a football playing team then drop the prick, don't kill the whole team just to fit him in! In the meantime let's go and sign Seitaridis (not becuase he's great but because he's free and it's a no-brainer.) and Senderos who has experience at the highest level. Pavlyuchenko has also stated that he want to leave Tottenham to get a starting spot to ensure his world cup selection. I know we can't afford another big money transfer, esp now that we haven't made the CL, but how great would a loan move for him be? P.S. I'm with Kojak, the Darlas situation isn't one I'll criticise HTC for. I'd have done the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakos13 Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Im willing to give the new doikisi a bit more then 12 months... One year is not enough for anyoen to turn this team around.... Vyntra, Seric Morris Biscan back 4 ..... We are definitely better than that man.... Sign a RB.. Play Bjarsmyr If not... You have 6 months..... than ill bitch louder then my ex gf during poker night Theyve been around for 15 months (last April). 3 transfer periods, failure to meet our needs every single time. Big signings yet failing coach. 14 months to find a CB, still looking. More time is needed to judge wether they are failure sure. However no time is needed to judge that they failed so far - they have. I'm not happy to sit around and watch the team fail again to meet its objectives because the coach was too hot headed to ask for a transfer he needed. We were playing Vyntra- Morris - Gkoumas/Sari---Seric/Spyropoulos in Peseiro. We are nowhere near that good anymore. FOR REAL. That era at least had decent centerbacks, and performed way better needless to say our problem was scoring that year, not defending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyberfish Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Good post Kojak and Euro. I agree. My critique of certain moves apply to the individual decisions on the particular game. In my mind it's under the same category as criticizing a player's play on the pitch. In no way do I think we should be changing coaches. We'll judge the club at the end of the season. We fans know so little and most of the time read the tea leaves, trying to predict what will happen. With Olympiakos bound to make a good transfer our chances for the championship will get tougher as well. Our rivals are guaranteed $10.1m according to this http://www.thesunnews.com/621/story/1031609.html and we received $3m for our trouble so far in the Champions league, and we'll be getting some money for our Europa League group participation. I think we should be investing the money in our defense. Based on what I've seen so far this will be a long season with surprise games conceded to small teams due to our erratic defense. I hope I am wrong, but I've been watching football for too long to ignore the signs. It's not just individual errors on defense, but also team defensive behavior that has been our plight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAO_OR_DEATH Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 ok every one, i have to admit my heracy..... I stoped watching after the 2nd goal...... for the first time in 5-6 years of watching football and supporting PAO i couldnt finish a game..... im sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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